View Full Version : Car just cut on me
Today I was driving home on a motorway and the car suddenly just cut on me and it didn't want to fire again. My brother towed me home. Spark is present, so I think it has nothing to do with ignition. It just doesn't make that specific sound, it sounds like there is not fuel coming to the engine, but I can hear fuel pump priming and fuel tank is almost full. There's no sign of fuel spiting out of the car anything. I thought maybe fuel filter and pipes are blocked...
Engine is E7J, 1.4 Energy, single point injection.
Any help much apriciated.
David
PS: I wasn't alcelerating or braking, or driving over a bump or something.
i had exaclty the same thing happen a few years ago. in the end i had to put a new power feed to the fuel pump as it didnt want to work through the normal wiring. whedn it happened i was on a motorway and the revs just died and it rolled to a halt. just would turn over again.
Exactly the same as mine. It's strange to because I can hear fuel pump priming... Was your pump priming?
Take the fuel feed off and see if it's pumping fuel when priming
I'm going to try few things now. I'll report later.
have u checked the cambelt??
I didn't actually look if cambelt is ok, but I uplugged one of the spark plug leads and tried with other spark plug if spark is present. And it was, and because distributor/rotor is driven by camshaft, it is rotating othervise there wouldn't be any spark. We can conclude from this that cambelt is ok.
I tried a few things and looks like fuel gets to injector. Another thing that I think could be at fault is flywheel speed/position sensor. Is this one of those things that can just randomly stop working?
PS: Engine has around 51000 miles.
LEIGH-ANNE
07-12-2010, 12:39
You dont have an alarm on it do you?
You dont have an alarm on it do you?
No. I do have an immobilizer, but I think it's not at fault here.
try resetting the ECU
How?
Remove battery for 10 mins or so
try resetting the ECU
How?
1. turn ignition on
2. diconnect battery
3. leave disconnected for a minute
4. reconnect battery
5. turn ignition off
Could be a crank sensor I guess. Make sure the vacuum hose for MAP sensor is ok too, and its plugged in. Could be a blown ECU too.
What's the odds it just randomly starts in a day or two.
I'm just back from garage.
I measured crank sensor resistance and it's around 250ohm(it must be between 150 and 250ohm, so that's fine). I tried with other sensor which had laying around(measured resistance is around 230 ohm) and nothing.
I tried resetting ECU, but that's not helping either.
It sounds strange when I crank it but cambelt is not ripped. It just doesn't sound right. I think cambelt could have slipped a tooth or two.
Next thing I will now do, is to determine if engine is timed correctly.
One thing is for sure, if any valves are bent or some other major mechanical failure, then engine swap is comming.
You dont have an alarm on it do you?
No. I do have an immobilizer, but I think it's not at fault here.
You sure about that?
Check and see if there are any (non-standard) wires going to the coil.
You sure about that?
Check and see if there are any (non-standard) wires going to the coil.
I'll have a look, but I doubt that there's anything non-standard.
Oh, and I also tried with spraying some WD40 in the throttle body but it didn't fire up.
yep reason i suggest the coil/imob is because i had a starting issue recently and after going over pretty much the same items you have it turned out that the imob was the issue. it could actually be the coil itself because if it was anything mechanical you would have heard some weird noises when it cut out.
So many many times over the years i've heard garages say it's an ECU problem even with the bikes. Never was so! : The ECU will be a problem if you TAMPER with it! :wink:
Well, you could be right, but I don't really know what to look regarding immobilizer. :? The immobilizer dash conrol light is as usually on for a few seconds, when I turn the key. If immobilizer would be blocking something, there would probably light be on all the time?
What exactly was your problem and how did you solve it?
yep mine did the same but dont let the little red light fool you!
sorry i cant get pics up as photobucket is acting up again but locate the ignition coil..it is over the battery.
have a look at the wiring, chances are there is a break in it which feeds the imob and returns into the cabin.
disconnect the imob wiring. the ignition coil wiring should only feed direct to the engine loom and not return into the cabin.
OR
find the imob itself, usually located under the dash on passenger side and see if there is a reset switch on it.
photobucket back online:
here is the coil with the wires running into the cabin to the imob. BYPASS the imob by feeding the coil directly from its original wiring.
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b300/fabtrader/williams-4.jpg
Ok, thanks mate. I'll try that tomorrow.
Here's the pic of ignition coil and all wires that come to it.
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/5839/foto425q.jpg
Which two wires I have to "bridge" to get around the imob?
Sorry about poor pics. Wire that looks pink in the picture is actually red(or was so).
Nope dont touch them wires!! their the original ones :wink:
You need to see if there are any wires coming from inside the cabin OUT into the engine bay and that MAYBE are connected further down where you are holding.
You should see masking/electrical tape if there is any?
Have u got a spare ignition coil to try? Is that single white wire earthed properly to the car body??
dkrevs ive just re-read your post and you said you were getting spark to the spark plugs?
If this is true than it's not the imob acting on the ignition as you would get no spark then.
but that does not mean the alarm is still not at fault. they may have it wired to the fuel system or other element.
You said also when you are trying to start it it is making some noises? can you post a short video of you turning/cranking it over? I know its a long shot but might help :)
I'll upload video in a minute.
Yes, I get a spark. There is no alarm on this car.
More and more I'm afraid that cambelt slipped a tooth or two.
After all this is my daily car and I really don't need trouble now...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNFqnPofHj8
If you try crank it over by hand at the pulley do you here any knocking noise?
Did you check all the earths and I think there is a solenoid on the starter motor which has a wire attached to it?
did you try cleaning the distributor cap and check all the leads are plugged in?
fuel is arriving to the rail ok?
Just check the timing or refit cambelt. Simples!
Yep, fuel is present. Leads are plugged in. Earth are...I don't see any not attached. I didn't crank it by hand yet.
I'll check timing belt, but there may be valves bent...
mate sometimes when things like this happen we have a tendency to think of "worst case scenario" all too quickly.
Hoping i see a post up soon that you got it running again. :wink:
You sure you didnt put diesel in the tank?
[quote="fab"]mate sometimes when things like this happen we have a tendency to think of "worst case scenario" all too quickly.
Hoping i see a post up soon that you got it running again. :wink:
Yep. assume you made sure all connections are good, including the one on top of the icv, if that comes loose engine cuts out.
LOL. No I didn't put diesel in it. :lol: But I actually thought if there was a mixture of water and fuel in my tank. I heard stories about this.
We'll see how this goes on. I hope to get this sorted ASAP.
Thanks for all the help so far, Williamsclio people. :D
I have some news.
Today a proper Renault mechanic had a look around my car. As soon as I turned a key he said:"Cambelt failure, valves are bent." :lol:
I will take the head of and then he'll change the bent valves. At least spares for this engine are relatively cheap. I think in one weeks time car will be back on the road again.
Cheers for all the help so far, I will post some pictures of how this goes on...
Laine_16v
12-12-2010, 16:39
Yeah was going to say, in that youtube video you can hear the engine is making feck all compression!
If you hve problems, I have a spare Williams head here ;)
If you hve problems, I have a spare Williams head here ;)
LOL! If only Williams head would fit onto E7J block...:lol:
But on the other hand, a 2.0 F7P project would be nice. I always wanted to build a stroked and bored F7P and since I have spare F7P block at home exactly this may happen. But for now I will sort this 1.4 engine as it won't gonna cost as much as I thought at first and I really want to have it back on the road ASAP.
I need to become a member and start my project thread...:oops: :)
robi1000
13-12-2010, 21:52
"Cambelt failure, valves are bent."
Khm, told you! :lol:
That's why I asked you if starting the engine sounds the same as usual.
Yes I know. :D I said it sounds really strange. At least I know what's the problem now.
You could do the head removal, fixing etc easily yourself. Would be good to see the insides of another Renault engine for a change, rather than F7R's :)
You could do the head removal, fixing etc easily yourself. Would be good to see the insides of another Renault engine for a change, rather than F7R's :)
Yes, I will remove head myself, but I'm not gonna fix it. I really can't be bothered with it now and I even don't have spring compressor,...
Pics later. :)
Here we go...
Some new tools:
http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/3050/foto446.jpg
Hood off:
http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/1343/foto447.jpg
Somewhere in the middle of the work:
http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/464/foto450.jpg
Cambelt cover almost off:
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/6214/foto451.jpg
Surprise! :lol:
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/5228/foto452q.jpg
http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/9099/foto453.jpg
Well done mate :D Looks like my efforts a couple of years ago!
Single cam, oh the bliss!!!! So easys!!! :p
Yes, it's kind of fun working on my car. :)
More progress done these few days. I'm ready to take the head of but after reading Haynes manual I got a bit worried about wet liners. It says that if I take the head off and not puting engine in TDC before that, liners may move when head will be off as I'll be then rotating it. If liners move there can water come into sump and mix with oil...I have problem with undoing bolt on the main shaft which holds aux belt pulley(I need to undo this bolt to acces main shaft belt pulley and also to put engine in TDC). Any advice on head removal on engine with liners?
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/5784/foto456.jpg
Aux pulley bolt:
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/5659/foto468.jpg
Head ready to remove:
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/3641/foto461n.jpg
Cheers
David
Be carefull when removing head liners can sometimes come up with the head , rock head to make sure theyre not stuck . Once head is off make a plate from a piece of plywood to bolt down over block and liners so they cant move. as for the pulley bolt you obviously dont have access to an air gun so remove the starter and " chock " the flywheel ring gear with a big screwdriver to stop it turning get a mate to help you with that .
Aye, can jam screwdriver in flywheel ;) Putting it in gear will make it harder to turn too if you want.
May find it easier with that body to subframe arm off as well.
Thanks for help! I now the screwdriver method, but bolt is all rusted...I'll just have to use more force...
Engine is now in TDC as you can see bellow. I took cam cover off and there are male torx bolts, which I don't have bits for. :roll: Ahhh, what else would you expect from Renault...
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/1450/foto474.jpg
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/1527/foto477.jpg
robi1000
20-12-2010, 23:25
I wouldn't count on that mark on the crank pulley. Double check that piston is really in the top position. Insert a screwdriver in the spark plug hole and see if it's really TDC.
I wouldn't count on that mark on the crank pulley. Double check that piston is really in the top position. Insert a screwdriver in the spark plug hole and see if it's really TDC.
Ok, I will.
Don't worry too much about TDC just yet, just get the head off, can always crank it later and watch the pistons move to TDC :D
No doubt you will want to give it all a good clean so it look nice, like me old valver!
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w102/barneywobba/My%2016V/DSC00334.jpg
^^Yeah, that looks nice. I doubt mine will, I just want it to fire back into life once again. :)
I checked TDC with screwdriver and it's in TDC for sure.
Does anyone knows what is equivalent to the T55 torx(T55 bolt fits into my head bolt) in inverted torx bits? E20??
robi1000
21-12-2010, 12:08
Worth a try:
An external Torx version exists, where the screw head has the shape of a Torx screwdriver bit, and a special Torx socket is used to drive it, although a standard hex socket can often be used. These are found primarily on automobile engines.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torx
I could try that, but I'm a little afraid that it would round off. Then I wouldn't be able to undo them even with inverted torx bit. And also when I'll put the head on again, torqing them may round them off and slip...
Use the correct tools for stuff like that.
robi1000
21-12-2010, 17:04
Forgot that this time we're not stripping the engine for parts and that they should be reuseable. :lol:
Forgot that this time we're not stripping the engine for parts and that they should be reuseable. :lol:
I'll get new head bolts anyway. :) I bought inverted torx bit that I need and it's E12(T55 torx bit fits in it).
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/9708/foto481.jpg
Cam cover off:
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/4118/foto483.jpg
http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/4306/foto484.jpg
Head off:
http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/8294/foto485f.jpg
Old headgasket:
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/1358/foto488.jpg
Head and inlet manifold:
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/6803/foto489d.jpg
Mark where piston met valve:
http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/6294/foto487w.jpg
Block after it was cleaned:
http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/327/foto491e.jpg
That's all for today. Tomorrow I'll take head to mechanic and buy service material, so in best case scenario car will be running on friday. :D
http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/7630/foto499.jpg
:droool:
robi1000
23-12-2010, 12:32
:D
katbloke
23-12-2010, 13:51
have u checked the cambelt??
Bet you listen to him more often from now on lol
Nice!!!
:D
Headgasket looked a mess, probably a good idea to get it all changed. Good effort! Lets hope it works tomorrow then ;)
Headgasket looked a mess, probably a good idea to get it all changed.
Yep, that's why Santa early this year. :shock: :P
http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/8379/foto503.jpg
Car is not alive yet as I figured I need a new camshaft o-ring(distributor end) + some other headwork, but I got another thing I was searching for quite some time. It's a non-UK Valver/Williams accelerator pedal.
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/7192/foto507l.jpg
Merry Christmas everbody. :)
PS: I'm sorry for fog light cover thing, it was just a joke. I'm sorry if anyone interpret it in a bad way, it was not meant like that.
Headwork???? What like? What the hell is that pedal!?
Headwork???? What like?
Setting valves, bolting everything together...Nothing unusual.
What the hell is that pedal!?
It's non-UK Valver/Williams accelerator pedal, it's "hell and toe downshift" suited. 8)
I'm just back from garage and car is after 5-6 hours of work running again!! :lol:
Now I just need to look for fluids and other things, but so far is everything ok. I have some pictures I will upload later.
This was a big learning curve for me. At this point I have to say a big thanks to Robi for all advises and help, tools,...and also to this forum board for all support. :D THANKS!! :)
:driving:
robi1000
31-12-2010, 01:06
No problem mate! Anytime! :wink:
Pics...
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/7011/foto508.jpg
http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/9392/foto514.jpg
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/4935/foto517.jpg
http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/9492/foto520.jpg
http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/8409/foto521.jpg
That's it. I have MOT on 4th Jan, hopefully it will pass it without problems.
Next things to be sorted are Widetrack, with Valver/Williams brake swap, powder coated Ph1 R19 16V wheels and some tyres.
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