172 on itbs with standard ECU

[16v_russ]

Hi Guys, though id give you an update as iv not been onhere in a while.

Im now running itb's and I believe this to be a first, im running it completely on the standard management and sensors :)

I home built this, with a mate who helped no end, for years this said this cant be done, but it works, and works well :)


192 bhp on RS Tunings RR, big thanks to Paul who mapped it :)

Engine spec:

136,000 miles
48mm Jenvey DCOE throttle bodies - on a genuine jenvey manifold
Yozzasport cat back exhaust - catalyst still remains
Magnecor HT leads
ITG sausage filter


More developmenmt to come

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g108/Russ_16v/DSC00145.jpg




http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g108/Russ_16v/DSC01312.jpg

[16v_russ]

Also excuse my terrible spelling in the above post

[steve d]

Like it mate

[dunlop]

Nice to see you on here mate! I was actually saying about this in another thread.

[16v_russ]

lol cheers matey, big thanks to you with this project!

[Yanoo_]

Nice. Although 48 mm Jenveys seems me a bit large for a 2.0 engine.

[16v_russ]

See, iv been told they are fine, although 45's would see a little more torque, and a little less power

[16v_russ]

Popped to Pod today:

Full interior in
Half a tank of fuel
23 degree heat


http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g108/Russ_16v/DSC01459-1.jpg



Was happy with that, I think with more time id hit a 14.0 but ran out of time and it got really busy.


Time for a bit of strippage then hello 13's :D

[Wobba]

Aye, easy 13's with a load less weight. What tyres?

Nice build by the way. Well done with standard management and stuff :D

What have you done with the head? Standard cams? Any headwork?

[16v_russ]

Hey matey, sorry about the late reply


That was on road tyres, Goodyear F1's to be precise


Thanks for the kind words mate, the engine is internally standard, just the itb's and a Yozza cat back, even has the cat still in.

Though with 136k on im thinking about a possible refresh over the winter, but we shall see :D

[thaijedi]

well done cheif, she already a rocket just cut the cat out and trust ul notice massive difference and only take a few mins.

what plans have you got for her

[16v_russ]

To be honest mate the ph1 cat isnt too restrictive, taking the cat out on my mk1 hybrid made a big difference, but as im running a Yozza, if i took the cat out i know il be failing noise tests at track days :(


plans are keep tweaking, maybe cams, plus stripping it, and developing it more as i go

[schakal]

awesome stuff mate ,my hat off to you 8) 8)

what sort of torque figure you are getting in this compared to
standard ?? is there a progress thread on the net ?

[16v_russ]

Thanks matey, yes I have a full build thread on Cliosport

Torque, depending on rolling road is an average of 160ish lb ft.


But the huge difference is in the graphs; When lightly tuned it had a max of 150 lb ft, now its making 150lb ft at just over 4000, and holds over that till close to 7k.

Here is a graph when standard, the torque is on the right, and it peaks just on 150 lb ft at 5500 rpm, with a very 'up and down' torque curve.



http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g108/Russ_16v/DSC01714.jpg






Here is the curve after the itbs, the power is like a line, and the torque curve is completely different



http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g108/Russ_16v/DSC01317.jpg



I then made a few more changes, such as moving the air temp sensor into a trumpet, plus a few other things, and had the map tweaked again and the curve got even better:




http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g108/Russ_16v/DSC01418-1.jpg




although its not gained a huge amont peak power/torque, its now making between 15-20 bhp and lb ft of torque more at any given point in the rev range, completely changing how the car dives, and explains why its so much faster

[16v_russ]

I will also just state on the Dastek rollers it makes circa 200 bhp, and on RS tunings rollers it makes 190 odd - shows difference in rolling roads.


It has gone from 0-60 in 6.7 secs average to 5.7, and 1/4 mile from 15.0 ish to 14.2 with more to come :D

[thaijedi]

very good power and good curves.

like wobba said got some weight out and and it will fly. bet you catch a few motors out. Whats the kerb weight

[16v_russ]

Iv never had it weighed mate, though getting it done this coming week ,im expecting circa 1030kg's

[Evogone]

Is this running LPG ?Whats the tube and pipes on top of the cam cover ?

[schakal]

Thanks matey, yes I have a full build thread on Cliosport



link ??? :P

[Laine_16v]

Is this running LPG ?Whats the tube and pipes on top of the cam cover ?

Std ECU keeps the MAP readings, therefore you must continue to deliver these readings when on ITB's too, via the 4 vacuum takeoffs, and a tank to average or soften the reading making it acceptable for the ECU.

[Evogone]

Is this running LPG ?Whats the tube and pipes on top of the cam cover ?

Std ECU keeps the MAP readings, therefore you must continue to deliver these readings when on ITB's too, via the 4 vacuum takeoffs, and a tank to average or soften the reading making it acceptable for the ECU.

Cheers looked like a cheeky LPG / Nitro system LOL.

[16v_russ]

Link:

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?317888-Ph1-172-itb-d-on-std-ECU-page-13-on/page10


Cheers Laine - spot on :D

[schakal]

so this can be done with any set of throttle bodies ,even
a set from a bike as long as you can get an adaptor made to
fit them the head right ?

[16v_russ]

You will need the manifold to fit them, plus a way of getting the standard tps to fit - i tried testing a few different tps to see if i could get a simpler fit, but none gave the same readings, which is why I made the bracket to fit the standard one.

[schakal]

manifold can be made using some thick sheet of steel ,some steel tubes and welding skillorz iirc . making a bracket to fit the tps sounds easy enough .
the reason i asked this , you can get bike throttle bodies for piss money .
which could make this a much cheaper conversion

[16v_russ]

Possibly mate, but the reasons why I didnt go with bike bodies are:

1 - I needed 100% reliability, and I knew id get that with Jenveys

2 - bike bodies/carbs usually have a small butterfly and can sometimes give a very snappy throttle.

3 - I wasnt sure on the fitment of the Renault tps, I know aftermarket tps can be fitted, but upon looking at a few different sets of bike bodis I decided to go with Jenveys

4 - I wanted a decent size and these 48mm's are perfect

[16v_russ]

Well after getting back onto the rolling road that I have regularly used when my Clio was standard, I know whow how much power iv gained from the itb's:




a minimum of 37bhp!!!


Results:



209 bhp @ 7,028 rpm



165 lb ft torque @ 6,229 rpm





Ignoring the 209bhp,take notice that with only a cat back exhaust the Clio has made a consistant 171-173bhp and 149-150lb ft of torque on this rolling road.





This means by fitting the itb's its gained me a minimum of 37 bhp!!



Also comparing the graphs, I now have a minimum gain of 10bhp at any point in the rev range up to 5000 rpm, then after that its a constant 30+ bhp increase.



Ignoring the peak numbers, a gain of near 40bhp has made me over the moon









Before:



http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g108/Russ_16v/DSC01470-1.jpg









After





http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g108/Russ_16v/DSC01469-1.jpg