View Full Version : setting up the tps...
i want to know if its possible to adjust the throttle position senor screw on the throttle body (std) using a multimeter or something. i know its possible to adjust it using the xr25 renault diagnostic tool but i don't have one to hand and don't want to pay renault to do it. anyone have any tips?? :D
why do you want to adjust it?if the cars running right theres no scope to adjust really without mapping for it
As Coops says, don't adjust the TPS if your car runs right.
Hope this helps:
http://www.fw.hu/yanooka/kepek/W_tb.jpg
TPS resistance:
from 1800 +/- 200 Ohms at no load to 3000 +/- 200 Ohms
at full load: 4000 Ohms
(these values are from Clio 16V manual)
damn edit button http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Combat/0012.gif
so the right values:
from 1800 +/- 200 Ohms at no load to 3000 +/- 200 Ohms at full load
resistance of the throttle potentiometer circuit: 4000 Ohms
Would someone be able to explain in laymans terms exactly HOW with a multimeter, do you measure the resistance values on the TPS?
Reno want 80 quid just to look at it :shock:
Thanks :)
Just whack on the TPS, leave the screws loose, connect the plug, fire up the engine and twist the TPS left/right until the idle sits at 900rpm ish (when warm)
I've done this with all of mine and they've been absolutely fine.
thats the problem i have! only thing is when i come off full throttle it sticks at around 2K.
i can never get it to 900 anyhow. always is around 1000ish
That's not the TPS at fault, that'll be to do with either the idle speed control valve or the road speed sensor
idle speed control valve is the cylinder yoke beside it that you lads are always on about to clean correct?
the road speed sensor..not sure where this is?
That's not the TPS at fault, that'll be to do with either the idle speed control valve or the road speed sensor
Aye, probably as above. Check the wiring on the ISCV as well as I know cars that do this due to shit ISCV connector plug, or bad wires, or the whole thing being generally crap.
8) cleaned the ISCV (third time now :roll:) this time with petrol and half a can of WD40.
For the first time ever the car is idling spot on..950. :D
Havent gone for a run yet as it's evening traffic hour so it could be solved
but
if it isnt then I could try to dis-connect the speedo (thats where the speed sensir is) and see what happens with the full throttle then?
Let ye's know tomorrow.
found the problem..some nutter forgot to re-connect the speed sensor plug under the dash.
I wonder who 8-[
I AM READY TO ROCK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rally:
yer I'm back in the mechanical section :cry: :D
First time the car has been out in 7 weeks since finding the speed sensor dis-connected..
Still have this problem whereby on full throttle the revs are getting stuck on 2K. Checked speed sensor and thoroughly cleaned the ISCV.
Any suggestions?
i'm going down to the garage to try this
http://williamsclio.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20930&highlight=revs&sid=26ee87d388fc9898d155be6fdfffac51
Seems this issue is with the speedo cable earth.
Will revert back later.
right then first picture shows how the speed sensor is connected to the speedo when its plugged in.
The second shows the earth point.
Does that look ok?
There is one other grey wire in the first pic which may need to go somewhere?
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b300/fabtrader/DSC02890.gif
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b300/fabtrader/DSC02891.gif
Unconnect the blue plug and check earth with multimeter(one multimeter plug in blue plug, other on earth nut/bolt). Also try this way, unconnect white plug and check black wire with earth(blue plug connected ofcourse).
Continuity is there.
From what Coops said in his post the earth should be cut on the speedo end? but this was working this way before. Few changes since it last worked are, engine loom, TPS and speedo cable.
The loose grey wire seems to be the original wire for the earth. I might try putting that back in (without the bypass earth) and see how it goes from there.
Thanks.
No dice i'm afraid.
Gonna try a new speedo cable as that house's the sensor. Thing is the speedo cable thats in it came from a right hand drive car (MPH) and mine is in KPH. Wonder would that make a difference?
No dice i'm afraid.
Gonna try a new speedo cable as that house's the sensor. Thing is the speedo cable thats in it came from a right hand drive car (MPH) and mine is in KPH. Wonder would that make a difference?
mate brand new speedo cable is not gonna make any difference at all.
I have gone through the same process months ago and currently have a brand new cable on my car ,it still idles around 1500-2000 after a thrash.
Its something else at fault which no one have discovered yet :roll:
Dont know what else to try mate?
Possibly have to bring it to reno and let them do a diag..
Dont know what else to try mate?
Possibly have to bring it to reno and let them do a diag..
have you got a spare throttle body you can try ?
I am yet to try this myself .
also when the revs go high ,you can dip the clutch or stick in neutral and
instantly turn off and on ignition (in a second) this does drop
the revs to normal on mine untill i high rev it again .
Its really annoying and a lot of people has the same problem :?
The only logic I can make out of this is that..If you are stationary( in neutral) and hit the limiter then the revs do not stick.
However if you are moving along it happens.
Therefore the only logic I can make out is the speed sensor on the cable which is the only sensor that moves?
Does anyone know which way the ISCV goes back on? From the picture below does the arrow go towards airbox or inlet?
Cheers!
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b300/fabtrader/DSC02892.gif
arrow should point towards inlet 8)
Chadwick
30-05-2011, 15:33
I had the exact problem, earth bond on the black cable if i remember rightly, behind the dash solved it.
Like you say, logically; it doesnt do it when stationary. so its got to be speedo related, or ECU - imo. something that gathers the information, or something that processes the information.
Chadwick
30-05-2011, 15:34
Just looked at the piks, I connected the origional earth with the new earth. So there was 3earth cables within my through crimp.
Ok thanks Schaks.
Chadwick, yep I connected my old earth back up to the original wire and then put a new feed in (sensor side) up to under the dash.
I know my gut tells me a new speedo cable isnt going to solve this but I need a new one anyhow as the one I have I had to cut out of an old leaky gearbox so it's a bit of a bodgering job tbh.
Everything else is hunky dory, car feels great! :)
I've got this issue also, only started happening since I re-shelled my F7R.
Same engine, same TPS, same ECU, different wiring loom, and different speedo sensor. Same clocks though.
Haven't tried re-earthing the speedo sensor behind the clocks but i'm going to try this.
Only issue I have is that the speedo cable is not connected to the box so the RSS isn't getting any info from it. That could be causing my problem. The ECU is not getting a reading of my speed so probably getting confused
Yep it stinks of an earth problem doesn't it.
However I have a theory..
The sensor on the speedo cable detects the speed of the wire in the cable, is that correct?
If so what is happening is that whilst that wire in the cable is spinning around like a mofo, when you back off, the wire (at the gearbox crown end) does not slow down as it should hence the sensor does not send accurate data to the ECU to cut down the RPM?
What you think? Crazy or wha?? :idea:
Well as my speedo cable isn't moving at all and I have the same issue, i'm not so sure it could be that.
But i'm also having lambda sensor issues which is giving me a floating idle at times as well.
Need a new lambda to try first and take things from there
Mine was doing it without the earth attached so we could just assume that by default it will stick at around 2K coming off throttle once there is a fault.
So earth attached it does it. Earth not attached it does it. Schaks said he tried a new cable and you said you tried a new cable and still nada.
Just out of curiosity has anyone tried going up to the point where your ragging it( hitting 5K+ in any gear) and then very slowly backing off to see if it's mechanical rather than electronic?
As it's a pain to have to go for a run every time you think you've fixed it, do you think it's possible to jack up the front wheels and do a test that way?
Wont do it now with the wheels off the ground :?
1st/2nd/3rd up the rev range and it idles normal. This is weird.
speedo acting normal, no judder.
fabulicious
02-08-2011, 19:00
I'm bringing this topic back up again because..well really I miss being in the mechanical section :)
Anyways a new speedo cable (earthed) made no difference. A diagnostic check showed no error, but thats kinda obvious as the fault occurs on full throttle not when stationary.
If I disconnect the TPS and start the car, the idle is in exactly the same position when the error occurs.
If i connect it back up it idles fine until you go full throttle and come back off.
So the TPS is working when you DO NOT go full throttle as it is measuring the position of the throttle when the first butterfly is opening on the throttle bodies.
It is when the second (larger) butterfly opens when the error occurs.
So what you think? a duff TPS? or something else shortening it out when open fully?
Its no way the positioning of it. I have tried a million different scenarios and each time the rev is in exactly the same spot when it remains high.
standard ECU never tampered with. and before someone says ISCV, ive tried 2.
I'm trying a different ignition coil just in-case it's causing the problem.
Had this problem on my old 1.8 16v and as you say large butterfly was problem sticking, would seem fine when off car and pushing it manually but when on car in use with flow was sticking and not enough force to shut down to correct position. Try total clean and lube up butterfly valves. Failing thAt are you running induction kit?
fabulicious
03-08-2011, 08:49
Hi.
I took the body off yesterday and gave it a good clean. Was pretty much full of gunk.
No induction fitted, running a standard airbox. Will try get some lube for it today cause WD40 penetrates but does not lube very well.
Seems like the only logical explanation is that the main butterfly is not closing properly especially with no errors being reported from Clip. All breather hoses appear good.
Will go for a run today and revert back.
fabulicious
03-08-2011, 09:05
Right then lads think I know where the problem is.
It's in the loom. It's the one thing that is different to when the car was running fine.
My old phase 2 loom was a bit worn so I changed it for a phase 1 loom and ever since it's been acting up.
Cliokiz you changed your loom also didnt you?
So I need to find a phase 1 ECU or Phase 2 loom or get the chip re-mapped.
MatBrown
03-08-2011, 09:35
I have a ph2 willy loom.
fabulicious
03-08-2011, 10:04
and a PM on the way :D with some £ of course 8)
Right then lads think I know where the problem is.
It's in the loom. It's the one thing that is different to when the car was running fine.
My old phase 2 loom was a bit worn so I changed it for a phase 1 loom and ever since it's been acting up.
Cliokiz you changed your loom also didnt you?
So I need to find a phase 1 ECU or Phase 2 loom or get the chip re-mapped.
Yeah I changed loom, I re-shelled my Williams engine so i'm also using a different shell, interior loom, speedo cable, etc etc etc
Right then lads think I know where the problem is.
It's in the loom. It's the one thing that is different to when the car was running fine.
My old phase 2 loom was a bit worn so I changed it for a phase 1 loom and ever since it's been acting up.
Cliokiz you changed your loom also didnt you?
So I need to find a phase 1 ECU or Phase 2 loom or get the chip re-mapped.
i doubt its anything to do with the butterfly or the loom at all.
Same thing happened to people with standard cars and unchanged looms.
Does it happen to you in warm/dry weather ?
fabulicious
03-08-2011, 10:50
I was in such a hurry to fit the fresher loom and wasnt paying much attention to where it joins at the junction box. so long as the car started i figured whey hey its running.
but on closer inspection this morning the phase 1 engine loom is a few wires short than whats coming from the internal phase 2 one, and this is where the speedo sensor wires come from which is tripping up the TPS no doubht. :wink:
fabulicious
03-08-2011, 17:41
i doubt its anything to do with the butterfly or the loom at all.
Same thing happened to people with standard cars and unchanged looms.
Does it happen to you in warm/dry weather ?
So what do you think it is Schaks? A short somewhere?
The only thing not connected back up are the brake pad warning lights that are connected to the pads usually.
Other than that as I said, where the engine loom joins the interior loom,at the junction box, the wiring is not matching up.
the whole thing doesnt make sense especially with an all clear from clip, but i gotta get a phase 2 loom back in there.
fabulicious
04-08-2011, 20:48
Just had a thought.
Does anyone think this issue may have something to do with the canister? Say, I had it connected up arseways?
fabulicious
08-08-2011, 13:03
Ok seems as if I've discovered the problem. I disconnected the ISCV and bingo!
Funny thing is with it disconnected the engine is idling nicely around 800/850 and a sweet gurgle aswell :)
And I've cleaned that yoke half a dozen times and tried another one (not new) also!
What a relief I can tell you after 12 months of maintenance to finally have the car running sweet again.
I can go full throttle now :D
fabulicious
10-08-2011, 10:57
So its the ISCV I hear you say? Well I'm not convinced just yet. Here's why.
I cleaned the bugger again and now I have an even worse problem with it connected. It revs to about 2K and will not come back down.
So I undid the pipe that runs from it to the airbox so I could see the position of the valve inside the iscv and sure enough it's opening and way too much.Tested it with a 12V feed and it opens fully and shuts fully. So it would appear to be working as such. I even disconnected the TPS and started the car to see if it's the throttle position effecting the valve opening but no dice. I've gone over the pipework a dozen times checking for leaks. There does not appear to be a inlet gasket leak either.
So something controlling the ISCV is not doing its job properly. I checked the ECU board and everything appears well. Remember also that this car came back from a Clip test last week all clear :?
This has me stumped.
fabulicious
05-09-2011, 09:00
So what started off as a high idle problem when gunning it, and turned into a high idle on turning the engine over (after cleaning the ISCV) checking TPS values changing the loom,speedo cable etc, in the end it was..the ECU.
Not the cars fault either. Just me being a complete rookie!
8)
Age old ECU problem, I've blown two ECU's now which have had this same effect. Always worth trying first off.
fabulicious
05-09-2011, 14:17
Just me being very silly with electrics. I know I had a couple of hairy moments with the alternator wiring and the hazards also. No doubht one or the other caused the ECU to malfunction. Ah well lesson learnt. Always disconnect the battery when doing work on the electrics and always double check the friggin wiring before connecting it back up! :)
Aye, disco the bat, always!
fabulicious
10-11-2011, 19:01
haha this thread is back up again :P
thought I had it sorted but today I can 100% unequivocally say that after a visit to the renault shop today to purchase a gearbox speedo cable pin for a fiver (and a litre of type D) it is finally sorted! No jumpy speedo and hence no stupid stuck idle.
and yes Wobba if I hadn't of disconnected the battery back then I would be very well writing a different message today as I would never had got out of the garage in time!
fab , can you confirm it was the blown ecu causing your
high idle problem ?
How do you know this ? Are there any visible signs of damage to the ecu ?
Have you fitted a new ecu or was the original fixable ?
fabulicious
10-11-2011, 21:21
Nope Schaks, is was definitely, defo, for sure for sure, the speedo cable drive (pin) on the gearbox end. Fitted it today and no more judder on the speedo and no more stuck high rev after gunning it.
Nope Schaks, is was definitely, defo, for sure for sure, the speedo cable drive (pin) on the gearbox end. Fitted it today and no more judder on the speedo and no more stuck high rev after gunning it.
are you on about the pin that goes in horizontally to hold the speedo cable steady in there ?
fabulicious
10-11-2011, 21:55
The pin that goes into the gearbox and clips into that crown I showed you in a pic once. The speedo cable sits into it. It's got a new shape.
You see that wood screw on the left? Well that pulled out the pin which was blue and the insert was square.
But the new one from renault is white and star shaped for the speedo cable end to plug in.
I did not put back in the white surround or black piece that wraps around the cable end to ensure I got a snug fit.
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b300/fabtrader/Old%20Fotos/speedocablehousing.gif
The bit pulled by the woodscrew is completely plastic though right ??
i remember pulling this using a pair of long nose pliers once . Should have inspected in detail .
So am i right thinking you bought a new spedo cable from renault which has a star shaped end hence you had to change this pin to star (female) to match ?? And now you have no longer have high idle after booting it ?
Did your speedo still work with the old/square shape pin and star end cable ?
fabulicious
10-11-2011, 23:00
Yes the bit (Pin as such) is completely plastic. That pic was from an old box I was messin with and had a metal housing that came out with it as can be seen from photo.
The box in the car now is from a phase 1 (still a JC5) but had no metal housing just the plastic blue piece.
I bought a speedo cable some months back and earthed as so many have done but it made no difference. The NEW speedo cable internal wire is still square shaped.
Only the pin I installed today stopped the judder on the speedo and hence no more high idle after booting it. It is star shaped.
Yes my speedo still worked with the old Pin BUT it had judder and was tripping out the sensor.
You just gotta make sure to plug the cable in the gearbox all the way in. Maybe just maybe the fact that I removed the white insert and black clip that surrounds the speedo cable, allowed for the speedo cable end to fit into the gearbox pin much better?
It does make more sense now , i have the speedo judder on the 9 as well .
Whats the part number for the new pin ? How much ?
Do you just push it in ?
You might have just solved the biggest (most annoying) mystery in the F7P/R community my son 8)
fabulicious
11-11-2011, 10:21
7700722304. About 5 quid all in.
Just make sure when you take the old pin out you make a note of how it's aligned. Then plug the new pin in exactly as the old one came out.
And just to be very sure, for the initial test, do away with the white holder and black clip to be certain the speedo cable sits snug into the pin. It's not going to pop out anyhow.
Great info fab! :) Good work. 8)
fabulicious
12-11-2011, 11:59
It's amazing the lengths we go to to get our cars running sweet!
Just to add something else just in case anyone stumbles across this thread wandering about the TPS :)
The throttle cable mount in the engine bay is an area I discovered this morning which will have an effect on how far the accelerator pedal will travel to the floor in the cabin.
There is a cork screw type plastic bit on the mount that you can screw in or out and therefore allow the pedal to reach the floor or not.
It seems that the position of this corkscrew has a knock on effect on the TPS. So I believe it is one to watch not only for stuck high revs but also lumpy idling, which is what I had this morning and resolved it by setting the corkscrew about midway and slightly adjusting the TPS. Make sure the little clip is in the corkscrew to prevent it sliding all the way down.
I just swapped the plastic insert in the gearbox to try to cure the wobbly speedo needle thing.
The 7700722304 part number has been "superseded" and is now 8200674121. Cost £6.06 + VAT and the dealer got it delivered for the next day.
Getting the old one out wasn't too bad as soon as I removed the white/cream plastic collar. The collar was completely grey with grime so I actually thought it was metal and should be left alone to being with.
Unfortunately, I found the square end of the speedo cable that plugs into is almost split and shimmed with some plastic crap and when I did get the gearbox plastic insert out... it was the new star shape! So pretty much no difference.
Ah well I still got to go on a test drive after with my new expensive bit of plastic.
82 00 674 121
http://imageshack.us/a/img443/2340/gearboxinsert1.jpg
Star shape
http://imageshack.us/a/img39/70/gearboxinsert2.jpg
Well I finally found my problem this weekend.
Idle was around 3krpm, spent about an hour ****ing around with the ISCV, TPS, etc trying to sort the idle out. In the end it stopped idling altogether.
Removed the ECU to check and it absolutely STANK of burning. Opened it up and one of the chips had burnt out.
Replaced with another Williams ECU and boom, 900rpm idle, no problems.
My idle is still a bit lumpy though, ISCV is fine, tried adjusting the TPS to no avail...
Just enjoy it now. Blown ECU ^^
Yeah definitely blown! No idea how that happened - did dismantle an ISCV and try twisting it around so perhaps I shorted something out, although it didn't work properly before hand so I think it was already blown
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