View Full Version : manual steering rack ratio?
Is the ratio different. Ie does it effect the handling of the car when converted?
Seems like a good conversion to save weight, increase power and fuel consumption and get rid of whine etc.
Does anyone on here recommend it for a road going car? I imagine the the steering gets heavy with the F7R on top.
white16valver
08-02-2010, 23:59
Several people have changed theirs :)
I think valver/willy is 2.2 turns lock-to-lock but the manuals from the lower models are 2.9 turns.
(It was suggested that the Cup cars had 2.0 or even 1.9(??) turns but I think someone checked their one and it was still 2.2 turns.)
It appears you can change to manual with either the lower model rack and some other parts, or you could seal the current rack with grease in it and remove the power steering parts :)
Yeh ive heard about the grease idea. Does this not ruin the rack though so it couldnt be changed back?
Im not sure i would want to loose the willy ratio.
Anyone know how much power gain or fuel eco you gain?
sk84life
09-02-2010, 23:56
Several people have changed theirs :)
I think valver/willy is 2.2 turns lock-to-lock but the manuals from the lower models are 2.9 turns.
(It was suggested that the Cup cars had 2.0 or even 1.9(??) turns but I think someone checked their one and it was still 2.2 turns.)
It appears you can change to manual with either the lower model rack and some other parts, or you could seal the current rack with grease in it and remove the power steering parts :)
Hmmm don't think thats quite right, my valver is 2.7 turns, the non-pas racks are more like 4!
Pretty sure Willy standard is 2.2 turns.
2.7/2.8 for williams racks
the 1.2 rack etc is over 4 turns
Wow I must have a short ratio rack :D
must have lol
i know both my 16v rack and old williams rack are identical in lock to lock
white16valver
10-02-2010, 00:47
Weird! Will have to work mine out lol
why do people put 1.2 racks on willys then. surely that would make it piss poor?
white16valver
10-02-2010, 01:09
I always had that thought too lol
Wow I must have a short ratio rack :D
Me too, i compared mine side to side before fitting it and there was only half a turn difference in it
why do people put 1.2 racks on willys then. surely that would make it piss poor?
Because manual steering takes away approx 5 bhp from the engine power, and a manual rack set up is lighter, plus you can 'feel' the road through the steering a lot more
i measured mine with the rack off the car btw
white16valver
10-02-2010, 19:26
why do people put 1.2 racks on willys then. surely that would make it piss poor?
Because manual steering takes away approx 5 bhp from the engine power, and a manual rack set up is lighter, plus you can 'feel' the road through the steering a lot more
BUT...
I want to go 'turn' then turn in, not 'turn, turn, TURN!!!' ;) LoL :lol:
Beaniemoo
10-02-2010, 20:23
I'm a very lucky little man and have a Mk1 clio manual rack on the garage floor which is 2.3 turns lock to lock :lol:
Not seen another since though
white16valver
10-02-2010, 20:27
Typical renault random supply chain!!
I'm a very lucky little man and have a Mk1 clio manual rack on the garage floor which is 2.3 turns lock to lock :lol:
Not seen another since though
What was the origin of that then??
Beaniemoo
10-02-2010, 20:58
It's a manaul rack thats been converted to a quick rack by a now defunct engineering company a long time ago. It's the only one i know of so i'm pretty pleased to have it.
Are you fitting it soon?? If so let me know how heavy the steering gets please. Sounds like the way to go though.
I tried my mums polo (non pas) out last night and thats 2.6 turns on a 1ltr engine and its heavy as fook! Put me off slightly.
why do people put 1.2 racks on willys then. surely that would make it piss poor?
Because manual steering takes away approx 5 bhp from the engine power, and a manual rack set up is lighter, plus you can 'feel' the road through the steering a lot more
BUT...
I want to go 'turn' then turn in, not 'turn, turn, TURN!!!' ;) LoL :lol:
Hehe, Thats what im saying. The turn in is so key to the williams zen.
wouldnt want to turn it into a stagecoach. :?
Beaniemoo
11-02-2010, 00:43
I'm afraid I'm a very long way from fitting it as the car is still in a million peices at the mo. I'm hoping that when i do get it fitted the light weight of the car will make the steering a little lighter otherwise i'm screwed as i'm only small lol
robi1000
11-02-2010, 00:49
My Williams definitely has different (quicker) rack then any of my friends valvers. It's clearly visable when trying to park the car or negotiating really tight turns. Mine is very much like clio V6 - three point turns everywhere... :?
When I put mine on full lock the wheels scrape the arches, so I try and avoid it... :lol:
Beaniemoo, you'll be fine.
It's a manaul rack thats been converted to a quick rack by a now defunct engineering company a long time ago. It's the only one i know of so i'm pretty pleased to have it.
Would they be TAS? There kits with 2.5turns lock to lock.
Winston has one of their old quick racks for sale when he broke the 5 he was builiding.
I also have one, i've rebuilt mine 3 or 4 times this year in an attempt to removed the play in it, its helped a bit but the quality of the TAS kits was never great to begin with.
A few other 5 owners I know have also stripped and rebuilt the TAS quick raks for the same reason, with near enough the same results..
Ive checked my rack today and its deffinatly 2.8-2.9 almost to upside down both ways.
Are other peoples different?? This is very strange if thats the case. :?
cliokongen
12-02-2010, 23:34
Had a look at a couple of racks today.
All measured on the rack it self.
Std. Williams PAS rack: 2,75 turns lock-lock
Std. Valver PAS rack: 2,75 turns lock-lock
A random Clio non PAS rack: 3,75 turns lock-lock
Michael
Just a thought would the r5 rack fit the Williams?
Yes Renault 5 rack fits the Williams and vice versa. The gt turbo manual rack is 3.25 turns lock to lock, the TAS 2.5 turn lock to lock kits for the 5 are the only other option I can see.
I haven't driven a valver with a manual rack yet. However, when i had my old 1.4, i distinctly remember that the turning circle was much better than the valver when i got that.
Obviously this makes the lock to lock more turns, but wouldn't the ratio be very similar? As the manual rack just turns the wheels further on a full lock, hence the scrubbing on the inside. Hence the valver/willy rack takes more to do 3 point turns as said above.
Or am i completely wrong and there is a big diffence in how much the wheels turn for the same movement in steering wheel? I wouldn't have thought it would've been noticeable really - especially if the cups ran the same rack. Just buy a slightly smaller steering wheel too!
16v_paddy
14-02-2010, 06:24
It's a manaul rack thats been converted to a quick rack by a now defunct engineering company a long time ago. It's the only one i know of so i'm pretty pleased to have it.
Would they be TAS? There kits with 2.5turns lock to lock.
Winston has one of their old quick racks for sale when he broke the 5 he was builiding.
I also have one, i've rebuilt mine 3 or 4 times this year in an attempt to removed the play in it, its helped a bit but the quality of the TAS kits was never great to begin with.
A few other 5 owners I know have also stripped and rebuilt the TAS quick raks for the same reason, with near enough the same results..
IIRC that's where Beanie got it from 8)
Which on of these would fit a manual clio ?:-
http://www.k-tecracing.com/show_product.asp?id=2206
And what ratio are these ?
alex_e3 you make a very good point.
There is alot of confusion on this issue. Someone whos running the conversion should clear this up.
alex_e3 you make a very good point.
There is alot of confusion on this issue. Someone whos running the conversion should clear this up.
This is correct
Std. Williams PAS rack: 2,75 turns lock-lock
Std. Valver PAS rack: 2,75 turns lock-lock
A random Clio non PAS rack: 3,75 turns lock-lock
white16valver
15-02-2010, 15:03
But you could fit a quickrack designed for a renault 5 to take it down to 2.5 turns lock to lock, going from the above posts??
But you could fit a quickrack designed for a renault 5 to take it down to 2.5 turns lock to lock, going from the above posts??
What ratio are the K-tec racks ? and whwer can you get the kit for 2.5 ratio from as TAS dont exist anymore.
Ive got a spare r5 steering rack,i must check it out an see what the lock is! :wink:
TAS are long gone now, the only option that I can see would be to hunt down a TAS converted rack, they are out there I know of 4 or 5 people with them.
Or get something custom made, I think that was looked into recently though with Quaife wasn't it? Although I don't think it had much success.
i got onto k-tec to see if they know what ratio those R5 racks are. hope to hear back soon.
This is correct
Std. Williams PAS rack: 2,75 turns lock-lock
Std. Valver PAS rack: 2,75 turns lock-lock
A random Clio non PAS rack: 3,75 turns lock-lock
Random Clio PAS rack: 3,75 turns lock-lock ...too!
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