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Jaymzfc
22-01-2010, 08:51
Hi People,
I need some help with the following as the govt over here is trying to screw me.
Can anyone get the follwoing info for me:

The factory dimesions of a clio williams

Clio williams 1994/95 who have recently passed a mot, i need the co2 emissions figures and particulate matter, i think there s print out they givve you or something.

I know it sounds weird but to register a car from 1994 with a 2.0 engine is turning out to be a nightmare for me and im gonna start crying.

Thanks again
Jaymz

northy
22-01-2010, 09:28
http://www.carfolio.com/specifications/models/car/?car=154891

Jaymzfc
22-01-2010, 09:44
Hi Northy,
Can i take those fugures as Bible, especially the co'2 at 240g/km

Thanks again for the help

Jaymz

Wobba
22-01-2010, 09:44
Is this anything to do with the fact Malta only joined the EU in 2004 and therefore didn't subscribe to the same standards of car manufacture back then?

Back then I think we had EU vehicle approval (may have changed now) but the Williams was in that category.

Don't you have an equivalent of single vehicle approval (SVA) over there? That may be one way around registration issues if that is the case.

Wobba
22-01-2010, 09:49
You need it for this form? :

http://www.transport.gov.mt/MediaCenter/PDFS/1_VEH01.pdf

Jaymzfc
22-01-2010, 10:01
Hi Wobba, Once we joined the Eu the registration tax on vehicle import changed completly to the better might i add, basically for me to get a williams 1 over here i have to pay euro 1800 reg tax this is worked out on car size /engine/age, which isnt too bad considering what it costs to get a Japanese import.
However the main issue is this which is new by the way is the road license fee. Which is calculated on car age/and size of engine. now if the wily produceses 240co2 g/km it will cost me 1032 euro a year.

There doing this to prevent an influx of older crappy cars basically which i understand since were small island. (but the wily isnt a crappy car)

Gotta find a way to get that co2 dwon to 130 :) then its only 400 a year.

tks
jaymz

northy
22-01-2010, 12:02
Hi Northy,
Can i take those fugures as Bible, especially the co'2 at 240g/km

Thanks again for the help

Jaymz

No but you can use these.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y107/northy_com/renaulttechsheet.jpg

stevie_b
22-01-2010, 12:22
Great links to the specs. That carfolio one is now bookmarked as interesting to be able to look up loads of cars on there, thanks Northy.

I think the issue with CO2 is that the car was never put through the official EU cycle to measure it, as the rules (plus low volume?) meant it was not necessary back when the car was built. Therefore there is no 'bible' figure for the CO2 as far as I know - the 240g/km on the carfolio spec is worked out from knowing the mpg and working out roughly what CO2 would come out of the back if you are using that much fuel. We have the same issue here, re: unknown CO2, and so our tax for cars before the date they have all the figures is based purely on the engine capacity.

Jaymzfc
22-01-2010, 12:53
This is why i need to get my co2 level down.

The figures on top of the form are the age of the car +14 years then look on the left and see the km/g followed on the right and theres the amount you will need to pay, hence the 1474 euros if the co2 km/g is over 240.

stevie_b
22-01-2010, 13:17
Yeah, I know why you are asking, it is just that for most cars over 14 years old there is going to be no 'official' CO2 rating for them, so how does anyone know what band to put it in?

Jaymzfc
22-01-2010, 13:25
This is where i need you lot, when the car comes to Malta it has to go throught our version of an MOT, each garage is linked to the govt dept of licenses so they will know when the test took place and what the co2 readings were. If any of you have done an mot recently then you should have a read out which would give me a good idea of what it is actually like.

Then figure out how to lower it :wink:

stevie_b
22-01-2010, 13:41
No, sorry the CO2/km is not measured for our MOTs here. The MOT test has a % CO (monoxide, not dioxide) measurement that needs to be passed (this figure is defined by car but I can't remember what the Williams' figure is) each time. We can find out what the limit for that is if that's what you need?

Are you importing the vehicle into Malta? I believe there is a 'Model Report' for each model of vehicle that can be imported where they have already done their own tests and issued a 'Certificate of Conformity' to the Maltese rules so it's possible that they measured the CO2 as part of that test and you can adopt that figure (if you can find what it is!)

Jaymzfc
22-01-2010, 14:42
Tks for the replies Stevie, im not sure how they obtain the data to be honest, if its when they do the Mot then i'll have to invent a way to get most of the smoke to go somewhere rather than the exhaust :)
i read somewhere that removeing the cat reduces co2 weird but anyhow im open to ideas

tks again all

jaymz

Wobba
22-01-2010, 15:02
Tks for the replies Stevie, im not sure how they obtain the data to be honest, if its when they do the Mot then i'll have to invent a way to get most of the smoke to go somewhere rather than the exhaust :)
i read somewhere that removeing the cat reduces co2 weird but anyhow im open to ideas

tks again all

jaymz

valver ECU ;)

Not sure if that works tbh though hehe.

Jaymzfc
22-01-2010, 15:13
I Have a valver ecu actually:) must ask Mat

Wobba
22-01-2010, 18:00
I've no idea what the emissions would be like with a valver ECU on an F7R would be like. I only say that as it runs leaner than the 2.0L ECU.

Jaymzfc
22-01-2010, 18:08
Yeah i understand and appreciate your advice, i guess ill start by checking how exactly they caculate the c02/km thing, once i know then i can start working on a way around avoiding the heavy road tax.

It's been a long time dream to own one and i'm not gonna let some politician ruin it for me.

If i dont manage ill let you all know my donation site address :lol:

big tks to all

ThRaXaIR
22-01-2010, 20:41
hey buddy sorry couldnt tell you what the reading was on decat. i hope you sort this out cos thats some serious taxation!! :(

cooper
22-01-2010, 23:15
if u want mate i can do an emissions test on my williams tomorrow and scan the results an post it in here for u if that would help, the only problem is my williams is a 1993 model not a 1994/95.

Jaymzfc
23-01-2010, 00:30
Cooper, That would be brilliant mate , dont think 1993 or 1994 will make a difference so if you could do that i would greatly appreciate it and definetly but you a few if we ever met.

MatBrown
23-01-2010, 00:54
if u want mate i can do an emissions test on my williams tomorrow and scan the results an post it in here for u if that would help, the only problem is my williams is a 1993 model not a 1994/95.

But will that give you a CO2 reading?

LEIGH-ANNE
23-01-2010, 01:24
These are my results for my williams 2 2 years ago.

The fail was with a de-cat and the pass was with the cat added.

Hope these may help. I knew i had them handy.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a317/leighanne21/photo-10.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a317/leighanne21/photo-11.jpg

LEIGH-ANNE
23-01-2010, 01:28
http://www.carfolio.com/specifications/models/car/?car=154891

I can confirm these figures with a 1993 mag i have on a williams

Jaymzfc
23-01-2010, 09:24
Tks for that Leighanne, the only thing is that i was looking for a the actual carbon amount the car produces, like in the link from Northy. If the Willy gives out 240 - 250 then im still in the very high bracket. Today i'm gonna take my car to the mot garage and ask them to test it and see in the form they give me it actually displays the amount, if not then the tax office must get the amount from another source which would screw me basically.

Fingers crossed its from the Mot.


But tks again anyhow all

Purple
23-01-2010, 09:43
Mine needs to be inspected before end Feb. Think I will bring it into the inpection centre early next week then. Will post up the emission results if I do get actual tested numbers. Does the results need to come from an EU country? Doh! Scratch that. Just remembered UK's not in EU either.

stevie_b
23-01-2010, 13:19
UK is in EU, but that won't help anyway I'm afraid - we only measure the CO at the MOT, not the CO2!

I'm not aware of any country that will actually test the CO2 on each individual car. The test involves sticking the car on a rig and running it through a very carefully regulated 'cycle' of running at certain speeds for certain lengths of time, accelerating at defined rates, idling for certain times to simulate waiting in traffic, etc. The CO2 is then calculated over this 'combined cycle' and given as an average CO2 g/km figure. On new cars in the EU one example of each model is tested as it is a laborious exercise, and that figure is then used for the life of every car of that model, regardless of whether it got worse over time, engine was swapped, etc. Prior to the rules coming in to publish the figure the exact cycle was not defined and the cars were never put on the rigs by the manufacturers to gain the figure.

Now... how that leaves you in Malta I have no idea. I would think for most cars over 14 years old there will be no published figure, but the table you have shown above suggests that they will need to know one. It could be that the Maltese authorities are measuring this on the old cars at time of import, when they issue this 'Certificate of Conformity' for a particular model? I'd give the authorities a ring if I were you - from what I've read the Williams will either be a pre-approved model having already been imported there once in the past, in which case I'm sure they'll have all the figures they need, or they will have never dealt with that model before and then you are going to have a whole load more paperwork to get the 'model report' for the very first Williams in Malta!

Purple
23-01-2010, 13:37
Yeah, got EU confused with Euros. So, yes for EU, but still nay for Euros.

LEIGH-ANNE
23-01-2010, 13:54
UK is in EU, but that won't help anyway I'm afraid - we only measure the CO at the MOT, not the CO2!

I'm not aware of any country that will actually test the CO2 on each individual car. The test involves sticking the car on a rig and running it through a very carefully regulated 'cycle' of running at certain speeds for certain lengths of time, accelerating at defined rates, idling for certain times to simulate waiting in traffic, etc. The CO2 is then calculated over this 'combined cycle' and given as an average CO2 g/km figure. On new cars in the EU one example of each model is tested as it is a laborious exercise, and that figure is then used for the life of every car of that model, regardless of whether it got worse over time, engine was swapped, etc. Prior to the rules coming in to publish the figure the exact cycle was not defined and the cars were never put on the rigs by the manufacturers to gain the figure.

Now... how that leaves you in Malta I have no idea. I would think for most cars over 14 years old there will be no published figure, but the table you have shown above suggests that they will need to know one. It could be that the Maltese authorities are measuring this on the old cars at time of import, when they issue this 'Certificate of Conformity' for a particular model? I'd give the authorities a ring if I were you - from what I've read the Williams will either be a pre-approved model having already been imported there once in the past, in which case I'm sure they'll have all the figures they need, or they will have never dealt with that model before and then you are going to have a whole load more paperwork to get the 'model report' for the very first Williams in Malta!

Good bit of info, how do u no this mate?

Jaymzfc
23-01-2010, 15:37
Small update , went to a mot place today the the guy confirmed that on imported cars they only do an mot to make sure the vehicle is up to standard, if it passes it will have no reflection on the values. So basically i need to find out how they will obtain the figures for the Wily.
I can confirm that there has never been a Williams imported as they checked the database for me, only the a couple of valvers have.

They might ask me to get the info from Renault or some other reliable source, i will have to check this on Monday with them i guess.

Not sure they will believe the Carfolio site but that still puts the figure high for me.

I'm detirmind to import it even if i do need to sell a kidney so ill keep you lot posted on developments.

have a good w/end people

ThRaXaIR
23-01-2010, 19:19
best of luck with this mate, that tax sucks a fat one!! and i thought mine was hefty! :(

northy
25-01-2010, 16:48
Dear Mr Northrop,

Thank you for your e-mail enquiry dated 22nd January 2010, concerning C02 Emissions.

We can only check to see if there is an exact match in the emissions manual for this vehicle if we are provided with the engine number. If there is an exact match for the vehicle, the emissions standards it should meet would be listed against it's record.

If there is no exact match in the service emissions book, the vehicle would be tested according to the year of it's first use, so in this case, a vehicle first used in 1993 would be required to meet the following emissions standards:-

CO<=3.5%
HC<=1200ppm

You can view the emissions standards that vehicle's are required to meet in section 7.3 of the MOT testers manual that can be found via the following link:-

http://www.motinfo.gov.uk/



I hope this information has assisted you with your enquiry, but if you have any further questions please do not hesitate to contact us again.

This is the reply when i email VOSA uk last week.

Wobba
25-01-2010, 18:01
Renault will know surely? I had to contact Nissan etc ages back when I imported cars. Pain in the arse tbh.

Jaymzfc
25-01-2010, 19:11
Tks for that Northy , i have an appointment with them in the monring where they will tell me where they will either get the info from or hopefully where they want me to get the info from !!

Got a couple of things up my sleeve but im not sure i can disguise a wily for a smart for two but ill try lol

tks again, ill let you know tommorrow how things go, if i dont reply and my wife does it means i found a brige and jumped.


:lol:

white16valver
25-01-2010, 19:27
lol Good luck! :D


They say they've imported valvers - could you not say it's just like one of those? ;)

Jaymzfc
05-02-2010, 23:38
Hello people.

Big News from Malta.

I bloody did it, they agreed to a lower rate of tax and i can now come and collect my WILLY.

As soon as its ready ill be over to drive it down to Malta and then make history as being the first Willy in Malta, i'm so excited i could run down the street butt naked shouting i have a willy.

Thanks again to all of you who helped me .

I plan to do a trip report with pics of the trip down fingers crossed it doesnt include breakdown pics :)

cya

Jaymz

cooper
05-02-2010, 23:43
congratulations mate, glad it worked out for u :D

where u picking ur willy up from??
make sure u take lots of pics on ur travels coz we will all be waiting to see them :wink:

16v_paddy
05-02-2010, 23:57
:groupwave: :yourock: :pompom: :clap: :affro: :salut: =D> \:D/ :affro: :groupwave:

Pics of you running naked down the street otherwise I don't believe you're as excited as you say you are :lol:

Jaymzfc
07-02-2010, 10:33
Picking it up from Leicester, sometime this month.

Got a lot of planning to do now ferries/hotels insurance bla bla bla.

GPS will help with most of the route getting the ferry from Livorno, its safer and easier that driving down through the bottom end of Italy as well.

Like i said ill do a trip report.

Happy Times :) :) :)

ThRaXaIR
07-02-2010, 11:22
good work!!! enjoy! :D :D

LEIGH-ANNE
07-02-2010, 11:29
Picking it up from Leicester, sometime this month.

Got a lot of planning to do now ferries/hotels insurance bla bla bla.

GPS will help with most of the route getting the ferry from Livorno, its safer and easier that driving down through the bottom end of Italy as well.

Like i said ill do a trip report.

Happy Times :) :) :)

If u need any help - pm me ill be here to help :D

RB23
07-02-2010, 11:51
Well done, looking forward to the story of the trip. Good luck :D

Wobba
07-02-2010, 12:22
WOOP!!!! We want a report of the trip! Breakdowns included!! :D

Well done!

ThRaXaIR
07-02-2010, 12:49
should we do a meet or something?

Jaymzfc
07-02-2010, 14:57
Breakdowns :cry: thats one word i don't want to hear.

Going to check about the kind of cover i can get for the trip so at least if it does die i can get towed to the ferry in Italy :) it only operates once a week so i don't fancy being in Italy for a week ( well i do but in better curcumstances )

What are the wilys like on long long drives anything i should keep an eye on ?

16v_paddy
08-02-2010, 12:52
I'm not too far from Leicester so can offer to help on the 1st leg of your trip :wink:

BTW I'm still waiting for pics :evil:

Wobba
08-02-2010, 14:23
What are the wilys like on long long drives anything i should keep an eye on ?

Overheating.

Make sure the fan kicks in as it should and the coolant has been bled from the rad nipple after running it. Top up coolant after.

Another common coolant issue is the bottle itself having a hole in the top, seems to be a common fault with the manufacturing of them, they get old and leak there.

Don't let it go over the two-thirds mark on the temp gauge. It is ok if it does for a little while but not good for a long time.

Chronic overheating will result in a warped cylinder head and/or head gasket failure. Not what you a want.