View Full Version : Gripper Differential (LSD) - Group Buy?
Ok, so there are quite a few of us who do track days and pretty much all of us doing fast road driving when it's safe (I hope!).
One major problem I have found with all FWD hot hatches is the ability to get the power down in the bends without massive understeer, loss of traction and the loss of speed. It can all get a bit messy and frustrating hearing your engine going like the clappers but you are not moving anywhere except into the armco, and that Scoob you were chasing gallops off having gotten the power down a lot more cleanly!
The answer to this problem would be to fit an LSD.
This is a pretty serious modification, but those that have done it with plate diffs (like the Gripper) swear by them. If you have a dedicated track car/rally car or a fast road car it is worth seriously considering this modification.
Most of you know the basics of how they operate. They split the torque between left and right driven wheels when they 'sense' wheelspin etc. They divert power/torque to the wheel that needs the power and pull you round a bend far more cleanly. This is of course useful in everyday driving through snow and heavy rain etc as well as hard performance driving. Normal JC5/JC3 gearboxes can't do this.
I've been making enquiries on another thread HERE (http://www.williamsclio.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=380767#380767) and done some research over on CS as well HERE (http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=415879&highlight=gripper) if you want to have a read.
So the purpose of this thread is to gather info on any of you who may want to get in on a group buy from Gripper to purchase the unit for the Mk1 Clio.
Prices as standard would be from about £830. This needs to be confirmed but we would need about 5 orders to get a decent discount, though it is possible we could negotiate discounts for fewer if we can twist their arm at the Autosport show next weekend :)
The cons of this conversion are increased gearbox noise, fitting the item, getting used to the driving characteristics and losing your driving licence for blowing away newer 'better' cars on the twisties (even more than normal).
I'll be looking to do mine regardless of a group buy, but wanted to extend the opportunity to do this for the club with some help from other members.
Once I have further info I will post it up here before an official group buy thread.
Please post here if you are keen to be involved!
I will be going Friday, mention me (Pink rally clio) and may get extra discount or event discounted price without a group buy.. :wink:
I will be going Friday, mention me (Pink rally clio) and may get extra discount or event discounted price without a group buy.. :wink:
Friday is a trades member day right? I can't make that, but may well pop up on Saturday possibly.
I will be going Friday, mention me (Pink rally clio) and may get extra discount or event discounted price without a group buy.. :wink:
Friday is a trades member day right? I can't make that, but may well pop up on Saturday possibly.
I will butter him up...! remember you need a pass side 16v shaft if you have a wide track set up with this diff.
I will be going Friday, mention me (Pink rally clio) and may get extra discount or event discounted price without a group buy.. :wink:
Friday is a trades member day right? I can't make that, but may well pop up on Saturday possibly.
I will butter him up...! remember you need a pass side 16v shaft if you have a wide track set up with this diff.
A valver driveshaft? First I have heard of this! Still they are not that hard to come by I guess, would be a shame as both my Willy shafts/CV joints are brand new...
I will be going Friday, mention me (Pink rally clio) and may get extra discount or event discounted price without a group buy.. :wink:
Friday is a trades member day right? I can't make that, but may well pop up on Saturday possibly.
I will butter him up...! remember you need a pass side 16v shaft if you have a wide track set up with this diff.
A valver driveshaft? First I have heard of this! Still they are not that hard to come by I guess, would be a shame as both my Willy shafts/CV joints are brand new...
I run the 16v shaft and a spacer as its (D/S) not quite long enough to be 100% on the rallycar but on a road no need. Min has a different final drive for lower gearing so not sure if thats the reason i have to use the shorter shaft.
Justin..
10-01-2010, 15:22
What happens if you run valver track then?
MatBrown
10-01-2010, 15:49
What happens if you run valver track then?
You need to man up and get a widetrack! :P
Mat.
Justin..
10-01-2010, 15:50
I have widetrack :P it was an enquiry to widen the market lol
What happens if you run valver track then?
Run with what you have no change. its only if you run the widetrack.
Justin..
10-01-2010, 16:04
so if you've valver track just use those shafts?
thats weird how you need a shorter one for wide track but not with valver track :?
so if you've valver track just use those shafts?
thats weird how you need a shorter one for wide track but not with valver track :?
Williams one is just too long i have been told when running wide track. 16v one isnt the perfect length (its a bit too short but works)
Beaniemoo
10-01-2010, 17:15
I'm currently on a group buy on cliosport and have been for a little while now to the point that i now have one more cheque i'm waiting to clear then i will have the cash waiting and will be ready to buy. Heres a link to the thread and the price they have seems to be a bit lower so perhaps a little bit of mingling could result in a good price for us all. As far as I can work out this diff sits slightly differently in the gearbox and so is 10mm closer to the o/s so either do this trick with one widetrack shaft and one valver shaft or cs have negotiated a company that will cut and reweld your shaft with a "unbreakable" guarantee on it for 30quid.
I don't know if there's a difference between mk1 and mk2 diffs but i think it's worth looking into combining this so we have a good number of buyers and get a good price.
Keep me informed as i'm ready to buy. Cheers. Chris
Beaniemoo
10-01-2010, 17:17
http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=461083
My bad
MatBrown
10-01-2010, 17:17
Heres a link to the thread
Can't see one?
Mat.
**EDIT**
You just beat me to it. lol.
'Wobba, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:
1. Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
2. If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.'
So are you saying there is a group buy already for Gripper diffs for my model of car? What's the agreed discount?
Justin..
10-01-2010, 17:44
I know there's a few people after an lsd at the minute, me included. I've spoken to the suppliers, Tom + John at Dave mac propshafts about a group buy for 5+ units. Their website ishttp://www.racecar.co.uk/gripper if you want to have a look.
The usual price is £650, for 5 he would do them at £605 + £150 for them to refit you existing crown wheel. If you want their bolt on cw kit with a choice of ratios 14/60, 13/59 or 12/63 will cost £430.00 for 1off or £390.00
for 5 off. All prices are + vat by the way.
'Wobba, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:
1. Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
2. If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.'
So are you saying there is a group buy already for Gripper diffs for my model of car? What's the agreed discount?
Screw it, been avoiding it long enough. Paid £10 membership for CS.
Beaniemoo
10-01-2010, 17:51
It's worth a read on the thread as theres a lot of info on there.
Yea I've read the thread now thanks. I need more info on the driveshaft aspect and other peoples exact experiences of using a Williams with this setup. Don't really fancy pissing about with shafts, it's just more cost and hassle.
What exactly do they do to the shafts to shorten them? Take length off the ends at the splines or tripod end?
Im heading down on the friday and will be asking about having the gripper installed for my stage car
But im quite happy to join the group buy if it works out cheaper although I also want to purchase the bolt on different final drive
Wobba I belive the shaft has to be shorter due to the gripper sitting further to the passenger side of the gearbox casing. Some people ghet away with using a 16v shaft although these guys will shorten the williams shafts
I belive they will cut a section out of the shaft then friction weld it back together. I sure the work will be 100% they also make propshafts which is the same principle
Friction welding eh? Ok, that should do it without cocking up the shaft I guess. How long would the process take? I would likely only have a window of one week I could leave the car off the road for, during which time the diff would need to be fitted, along with shaft, gearbox put back on the engine etc.
MatBrown
10-01-2010, 18:29
'Wobba, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:
1. Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
2. If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.'
So are you saying there is a group buy already for Gripper diffs for my model of car? What's the agreed discount?
Screw it, been avoiding it long enough. Paid £10 membership for CS.
Traitor! :P
Mat.
'Wobba, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:
1. Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
2. If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.'
So are you saying there is a group buy already for Gripper diffs for my model of car? What's the agreed discount?
Screw it, been avoiding it long enough. Paid £10 membership for CS.
Traitor! :P
Mat.
Lol, I've just gotten tired of not seeing posts people link here :D
Taking information from the Cliosport group buy, which we are welcome to join, here is the pricing and other info:
Guys.
£605 + VAT for 5 people for the diff.
On top of that apparently you need to modify the crown wheel, which they will do for £150+ VAT. I think other specialists would be capable of doing it as well.
The second option is to get separate interchangeable crown wheel which makes it easier to change the gear ratios, that's £450 separately.
Also, they say that it may be necessary to either use a valver passenger driveshaft OR they can friction weld a Williams shaft 10mm shorter for you at minimal cost (like £30).
So, all in for a diff which will bolt straight in its £868.25 plus any work you need for the shaft and plus fitting.
Beaniemoo
11-01-2010, 18:51
Correct me if i wrogn (I was once wrong about something else) but £868.25 is the price worked out at last years 15% vat I'm not totally sure but if we're back at 17.5% now then the final bill will be.
£887.13
I'm happy to be corrected on this as it'll save me a few quid lol
Beaniemoo
11-01-2010, 18:52
Correct me if i wrogn (I was once wrong about something else) but £868.25 is the price worked out at last years 15% vat I'm not totally sure but if we're back at 17.5% now then the final bill will be.
£887.13
I'm happy to be corrected on this as it'll save me a few quid lol
Justin..
11-01-2010, 19:53
I'm pretty sure we're back upto 17.5% VAT now
That's weird. I know we are at 17.5% VAT now, must have been half asleep!
Ok, this is now an official group buy in tandem with the Cliosport lot.
I will post up a group buy thread in the correct forum.
Currently the list is as follows and will probably be closed by the end of the month, though I am sure if you want to just get the LSD and crown wheel done later on you could:
1. Russ Rallye - Lsd and oe cw/p (CS member)
2. Beaniemoo - Lsd and oe cw/p (CS & WC member)
3. Shiftspark - Lsd and ? (CS member)
4. Wobba - LSD & OE CW/P (CS & WC member)
5.
Il let you know after friday whether im in
No doubt he wont give me a better deal on my own, so il probably join you guys
cliokongen
12-01-2010, 23:42
Great initiative! :)
I'll know by thursday or friday...
Ok Twincam thanks, and thanks to you too Hr Cliokongen :) An LSD would suit your orange beasty!
Group Buy below:
http://www.williamsclio.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=381119#381119
Will probably be 2 weeks till we start putting orders down guys.
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