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KingStromba
23-02-2005, 01:43
Would it be possible to remove the power steering pump and fit bondys manual steering kit BUT use the existing power rack and column?

The reason i ask is that i was towed by the RAC and the ignition was on but no engine power and hence no power steering, and so i was effectively running with no power steering. The car drove for a fair few miles like this and the RAC guy told me that 'it will be heavy steering as your effectively running with manual steering'.

Just got me thinking that rather than change the rack and column, you could simply fit the kit (smaller aux belt) and just use the existing rack to steer the car. The benefit would be that if it was shit and you hated it, you could get a new power steering pump and refit the power steering more easily and just use it as an excuse to get rid of that annoying squeal from the pump.

Any comments welcome.



The coat is definately off the hook, and taxi is on its way on this one.............................embarrassed face on standy

Martin
23-02-2005, 02:32
It would be HEAVY, I've driven my old saxo when the power steering broke and it was'nt fun!

stan
23-02-2005, 11:07
It would be heavier than "proper" non-pas, due to the different ratios used. BUT it isnt as heavy as people would think...you obviously noticed this when getting towed. when i fitted an F7R to an RT, i took it for a longish test drive without the pas running as i didnt have any fluid. it was fine TBH.

but to do it properly you want to change the rack

KingStromba
23-02-2005, 11:15
TBH when the car was moving i didnt notice it. If i did it this way are there any implications other than heavy (ish) steering?

Could i just put the shorter belt on from bondys kit, try it, and if it was shit put a normal belt back on and go back to PAS?

KingStromba
23-02-2005, 11:27
So my method would cost:

£50 fot Bondys kit
The labour just to swap the belts over and remove PAS pump if needed. Lets say £150
Total: £200

The other method costs:
Manual rack - £100
Manual column - £20 (second hand)
Bondys kit - £50
Plus £320 Labour
Total: £490

According to the weighing figures of Winston a PAS weighs approximately 2 or 3 kg's more over a manual rack. So i cant see it being that much more heavy. The main force adding to the weight of the steering will be the friction of the moving parts and not the weight of the rack, which will be taken by the suspension of the car. Plus if the rations are different i would have thought you would be altering the Williams feel?

2 live
23-02-2005, 11:37
or u could just drop the pulley off the pas pump n usea shorter belt instead of removing it n needing another bracket

stan
23-02-2005, 11:59
to me, the reaon why i would opt for non-pas is to get the "feel" with manual steering. if you just cut the fluid supply, i dont know how this will affect the "feel". i cant imagine it would be as good as proper non-pas, since the higher ratio of the pas rack will alter the force transmitted back to the steering wheel i.e. the "feel"

IMO if your going to go to the effort of doing it, you might aswell do it the full hog

KingStromba
23-02-2005, 13:13
Do you not think the different rack and column will affect the feel of the Williams? The different rations mean a different steering lock diameter surely? Thats going to effect feel.

How did the Cup racers do this?


2live how long would it take to drop the belt off the PAS and fit a shorter one? Where could you get a belt from? Idf it didnt take long, you could do this, then if it was crap, just hook the original belt back up.

clean16v
23-02-2005, 13:16
one of my old 2l ran without pas on a pas rack for a while, it is not driveable imo, it feels ok but you cant 'throw' the car around as much because its simply to heavy. i didnt like the feeling of it at all

KingStromba
23-02-2005, 14:15
I dont see that fitting a 1.2 or 1.4 rack is suitable. To do the conversion properly you need a fast rack.

2 live
23-02-2005, 14:16
lol.i have a quik rack on me mini...n that makes it harder than std to turn on that..so with the clio will probs b proper heavy lol.....2 turns lock to lock tho...mint for feedback.jus not very practical for me any more

KingStromba
23-02-2005, 14:24
Maybe thats why the Williams PAS rack without the pump is so heavy as itsd a fast rack. Replacing this with a non-fast rack would make it easier to turn. Paul Mitchell did say the Cup racer he owned with a manual fast rack was very heavy.

Winston
23-02-2005, 15:30
Manual fast rack, Wonder where can I get one of them from?????

KingStromba
23-02-2005, 15:40
I know where there is a Cup one, but i have first option on it. :wink:

VIPERONE
23-02-2005, 16:10
i think you should let me know where it is stromba :-)

KingStromba
23-02-2005, 16:19
Ill sell you all the bits, Cup fast manual rack, belts, colum etc for £200. :wink:. Then you just need to fit it.

Martin
23-02-2005, 16:26
Sounds like a right blag really, I'm gonna wait till York and if Winston's goes like a rocket I'll have it done then!

KingStromba
23-02-2005, 16:40
The 1.4 with PAS ran at 75bhp and the manual steering at 80bhp for the MK1's i beleive. So 5bhp isnt beyond the realms of possibility.

Winston
23-02-2005, 19:25
Wish it would just ****ing snow proper or stop snowing. :roll: .......Been dieing to make a 0-100 vid all day...If it drys out may have a vid for tomorrow.

Let me have the cup rack stromba, I'll test it for you :wink:

VIPERONE
24-02-2005, 00:05
lol i wil test it properly.....

u33db
24-02-2005, 10:50
I don't know if anyone is aware but a few very early 19 16v's came without PAS - if someone found out the oval plate number this might be an option for sourcing the shorter belt and possibly alternator bracketry as genuine renault bits.

KingStromba
24-02-2005, 12:32
Do they use the same fast rack as the Williams but non PAS?

u33db
24-02-2005, 12:35
Not sure, as far as i'm aware, those R19's just used a standard manual rack like found on the base models. I would think this 'fast rack' is a competition part only...