The refurbishment and rejuvenation of Williams 123

[Smokey McPot]

I thought I'd make a thread to keep everything neat, considering the number of threads I have dotted about with questions.

I guess this should probably be in the Projects section, but since I've not yet paid Northy his money, it can stay here. Plus, others that aren't members can have a nose, point out where I'm going wrong, or how i can do things better.

This currently how it stands, its living in a lock up with a blanket to keep it warm at night. I've just replaced the center and rear exhaust sections.

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/2530/img101.jpg

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/2087/img102.jpg

These are the goodies that I collected yesterday.

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/2266/goodiesv.jpg

[katbloke]

Should be a good ones this, keep us updated smokey

[MatrixGuy]

Sweeeeeeeeeet 8)

[Coops]

engine overhaul on the cards fella? any reason or just tired?

[Smokey McPot]

just tired.

Its been sat for a long time, and although it runs, I'm in a position to not need to use it all the time, and I have the money to throw at it to get things looking better.

I'm thinking along the lines of preventative maintenance :)

[Coops]

ah good stuff, treat her right and well..........well its french so it sure as hell wont treat you right back again :lol:

[Smokey McPot]

The list is going to be endless. Fix one thing, find two more. Should be fun.

I'm not doing the engine work myself as I have precisely zero skills, plenty of trips the garage in the future I think.

[Coops]

if you dont need the car mate its the perfect time to go playing with the engine, although i spose if thats not of interest to you then no point. but i find that when taking on a project such as this the more you do yourself the not only more satisfying the resultant finished product is but also the more piece of mind you have as you KNOW you took the time, care and attention to do everything to the highest spec and with the utmost care. to you it will be a labour of love, to a garage its just another paying customer, and the faster its done the more profit they make, no matter what spiel the garage may give :wink:

[Smokey McPot]

Trueue, and I'd love to get intimate with the oily bits. However I have next to know knowledge of engines, I can grasp the fundamentals but need to be shown things, and I dont know anyone that has the time, or is local.

My girls dad is leathery notherner and has offered to help, but its a bit of a drive to Bradistan every time I want to play at being a mechanic.

[Coops]

i had no clue either when i first took to sorting my valver head gasket. its all part of the learing, and as its essentially a big mechano kit you cant really do too much damage so long as you have an ounce of common sense to your name

did you have lego as a kid? with the haynes on standby and the forum but a click away, cars and engines are just like lego for grown ups

legos still better though.............. :oops:

[16v_paddy]

legos still better though.............. :oops:

yeah, no rust for starters :lol:

[Smokey McPot]

I love lego.

I'll see how it goes, I'd be gutted if I ****ed something up.

The first thing I need to do is get it through an MOT. Once thats done, the fun will start.

Does anyone know where to get a new set of head bolts? Renault wanted approximately £10 a bolt, which I'm lead to believe is extortionate.

[16v_paddy]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/RENAULT-CLIO-MEGANE-1-8-2-0-16V-F7R-F7P-HEAD-BOLT-SET_W0QQitemZ310117430321QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Car sParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item4834707431&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14#ht_500wt_956

[Coops]

or gsf mate

if your down with the lego mate you'll love the engine overhaul, do it, theres nothing you can really really **** up, not if your patient, take your time and triple check everything

[wrighty]

i had no clue either when i first took to sorting my valver head gasket. its all part of the learing, and as its essentially a big mechano kit you cant really do too much damage so long as you have an ounce of common sense to your name

did you have lego as a kid? with the haynes on standby and the forum but a click away, cars and engines are just like lego for grown ups

legos still better though.............. :oops:

HI Car looks good already! Just to echo what Coops has said, take your time and enjoy! You will be amazed what you can figure out and the satisfaction / saving is well worth it.

My only advice is if you need a tool get it, I know it creates expense but in the long run it saves all manner of stress and problems!

Good luck, will make a fine project!

[Smokey McPot]

cheers for the encouragement peeps :)

I'm gonna get intimate with the Haynes.

Can anyone suggest where would be a good starting place to look for a coolant leak?

The header tank is empty and the cars done nothing but sit there. I presume its not just evaporated because its meant to be a closed system.

Are there common causes for this, places that are known for leaks and whatnot?

[16v_paddy]

Possible sources of leaks can be the hoses have split or not connected properly, core plugs, knackered seals on the thermostat housing.

Best bet is to fill it up & run the engine so you can have a good look around.

Where abouts are you anyway? For what you're doing it's best you do it yourself, and if you get stuck us lot on here can help

[Coops]

as above, could be anything do best to start with quick inspection, see if theres any obvious leaks still underneath. if not then fill her up, switch her and and watch for her dripping..............ahem

[Smokey McPot]

Cheers, I'll add it to the list when I'm at the car next.

i'll take my camera too, just in case :)

[Smokey McPot]

New Fog lights and dog bone mount arrived today curtosey of Mr Bayjoo.

[Smokey McPot]

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/2386/p1010040ef.jpg

[Wobba]

I need new fogs :(

[Smokey McPot]

Doesn't everyone? I've seen very few cars with decent looking fogs.

[Coops]

mine were mint in 0062, someone had replaced them recently :wink:

[talkingfish]

good luck with this matey! If I am managing to take my engine out this month (with help though...) I'm sure you can manage it.... :wink:

[Smokey McPot]

It never ends.

I spent an hour or so fitting the rest of the exhaust and fog lights. In that time I have established that I need a new header tank and new off side headlight and indicator unit (after a collision on the nearside warranted replacements its looking quite lopsided).

I'm also contemplating a new radiator and depending on where the coolant leak is, new pipes for that. Joyyy.

In the mean time have a really exciting picture of an exhaust.

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/5426/p1010041p.jpg

I would like some advice regarding the management system if anyone would care to help.

As the car has been sat without a battery or power for 2 years, is there any likelyhood that the ECU will have been wiped due to the lack of power? I assume it has a small internal battery to sustain it. The car starts everytime without problem so I'm inclined to think that its a non-issue, except for the emissions. Do I have cause for concern? Or am I being a pussy?

Finally I tried again with the locking nuts, having sprayed them with some WD and left them while I did the other bits. Cunts still wont come off. I'll be leaving that to the garage.

[northy]

suprised youve not painted that exhaust before you put it on - going to rust like mad on them welds

[Smokey McPot]

My old man mentioned that....

Is it worth the effort? Hammerite?

[northy]

was worth the £100 to buy it mate, a quick spray with silver heat proof paint wont go a miss

[Justin..]

If it doesnt rust from the outside in, it'll only rust from the inside out. Not worth it IMO

[Smokey McPot]

was worth the £100 to buy it mate, a quick spray with silver heat proof paint wont go a miss

wish it was that cheap....the centre and rear came in at ~£250

[GavinMccoull]

If its your radiator thats leaking just get it recored somewhere locally will save you quite a bit of money and will be as good as new. Im needing new coolant hoses as the majority of them are past their best. Might pop into renault see how much a full set will set me back. Oh and your exhaust is looking good :)

Gav

[Smokey McPot]

Cheers.

I'm gonna call my local stealer and see what the prices are for the bits I need.

I'd be interested to compare the costs of hoses. I noticed a few parts here and there vary in price depending on the dealer you buy from. :s

[Smokey McPot]

Are K Tec's range of head bolts decent?

I like the price - http://www.k-tecracing.com/show_product.asp?id=193

[Smokey McPot]

Can anyone help me to find some PAS fluid?

My steering has a whine, which I believe is because the seals are leaking air. I'm sure there is a brand of fluid (Lucas, maybe) that will help to prevent further perishment of the seals.

Any takers?

[Coops]

slick 50 is what you want mate

[Smokey McPot]

Where would I find that sir?

[northy]

halfords or any car garage

[Smokey McPot]

Thanks :)

[Smokey McPot]

picked up the lights and header tank today.

Can somone confirm what cap I should have for it?

Currently I have a brown one, and the new tank has a brown one. I did read that right one was light blue...

Whats the difference?

[_ol_]

picked up the lights and header tank today.

Can somone confirm what cap I should have for it?

Currently I have a brown one, and the new tank has a brown one. I did read that right one was light blue...

Whats the difference?I think they vary - Mine is white I believe. Or black... One of the two, heh.

[1995clio16v]

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/5426/p1010041p.jpg.

Good thread.

Good picture.

Is this the correct jacking point for axle stands? Asking as I need it confirming.

Coops is right. If you have an ounce of common sense, plus the knowledge from on here, you really cant go wrong. Ive pretty much removed the engine from my 16v, having never done it before, but from a bit of a guide from on here and simply getting stuck in!!! Thats all its down to, having a go.

My mate just had a new water pump fitted on his golf. Cost a coupla hundred quid, and I was like, just do it yourself. He said ''no'', dont know what to do. I said you'll never know unless you try! I know Id rather save meself coupla hundred and do it meself!

8)

[16v_paddy]

Just to add, I had never removed an engine before but I just got stuck in :twisted: 1st one I removed was from a valver I was breaking, learned quite a lot from that so felt able to do it to my own car. Managed that fine - took a long while but that was mainly down to the face I had to put it all back together again :lol:

Then my engine had to come out again :x and I managed to get it out in just over 3 hours - although I did destroy the speedo cable :oops:

Just keep at it smokey, the more you try & do the more confident you'll get and it's so much more rewarding that you've done it with your own hands 8)

[schakal]

Is this the correct jacking point for axle stands? Asking as I need it confirming. 8)

its a fine jacking point allright but i personally would stick a long
piece of wood in between to avoid damaging/stripping underseal,primer
as well as spreading the load better :wink:

[Smokey McPot]

Cheers peeps. I'll get there eventually. Time is a major factor at the moment, as I dont have too much spare. It'll plod along slowly.


Schaks - Ideally I'd have had some wood under the stands and jacks too, lifting it on pebbles wasn't the best plan I've ever had, the underside is unscathed though, so its all good. :)

[Smokey McPot]

Going back today to replace the head lamp, put new fog light bulbs in, and replace the cracked air box with the new one I have.

Small things and that should be it before it gets sent off to the garage for the bigger bits and MOT.

[busterhymes]

brown cap on coolant tank for williams

[Smokey McPot]

Great success!

New headlamps, indicator unit and airbox all fitted, oh and plugs.

Managed to see the extent of the oil leak I have because of the damaged rocker cover, quite a lot of oil in there :s

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/4331/p1010043g.jpg

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/7679/p1010044o.jpg

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/6910/p1010045df.jpg

SO thats its really, gonna book it in for the garage work this week, and all being well I'll have it on the road in a couple or so weeks :)

[Smokey McPot]

Booked in for next monday. Cant wait to have this back on the road.

[Smokey McPot]

Well it passed its MOT.

[northy]

8)

[katbloke]

good news, with reference to axle stand location its fine, just put a chunky cloth over it so as already said not to damage sealer, also less like to damage than a piece of wood

[Smokey McPot]

Technically it failed, but it was on the two front tyres that I couldnt remove the locking nuts, so I expected that, and also, the driver side front light was out of alignment.

I'm very happy that there was no unexpected issues that it'd fail on. Its being serviced today, and having the timing belt and what not sorted at the same time.

[Smokey McPot]

The engine is coming out to fit the water pump. Gay.

[Wobba]

Engine out eh? Whilst your there clean the ISCV, take the rad out and give it a check for leaks (fill with water, shouldnt leave rads empty anyway, put somewhere warm & dry and return to it later and see if there are any drips on floor...).

If no leaks give it a serious flush and shake it about loads! You'll be amazed at how much crap comes out. Good opportunity to replace hoses as well, along with cambelt and pulleys and check other stuff for leaks like thermohousing.

Also, with engine out you could remove/clean the inlet manifold and stick a PTFE gasket on. In fact, why not replace the headgasket while your there and paint the block :D

[LEIGH-ANNE]

The engine is coming out to fit the water pump. Gay.

Ive had water pump done on mine - no need to take engine out, just take wheel, bumper etc off...took bout 4 hours

[Wobba]

The engine is coming out to fit the water pump. Gay.

Ive had water pump done on mine - no need to take engine out, just take wheel, bumper etc off...took bout 4 hours

Taking bumper off and engines out is the easy pansy way of doing it.

I did it with my bare teeth in a hurricane on the side of the M3!

[Smokey McPot]

Engine out eh? Whilst your there clean the ISCV, take the rad out and give it a check for leaks (fill with water, shouldnt leave rads empty anyway, put somewhere warm & dry and return to it later and see if there are any drips on floor...).

If no leaks give it a serious flush and shake it about loads! You'll be amazed at how much crap comes out. Good opportunity to replace hoses as well, along with cambelt and pulleys and check other stuff for leaks like thermohousing.

Also, with engine out you could remove/clean the inlet manifold and stick a PTFE gasket on. In fact, why not replace the headgasket while your there and paint the block :D

My bill is hovering near a grand as it is. Im pretty much at my limit finacially, I'd love to get the hoses changed, but it'll have to wait.

Aux pulley, timing belt and water pump are being done, and also the rocker gasket.

[katbloke]

The engine is coming out to fit the water pump. Gay.

Ive had water pump done on mine - no need to take engine out, just take wheel, bumper etc off...took bout 4 hours

Taking bumper off and engines out is the easy pansy way of doing it.

I did it with my bare teeth in a hurricane on the side of the M3!

Least it wasnt raining

[Wobba]

The engine is coming out to fit the water pump. Gay.

Ive had water pump done on mine - no need to take engine out, just take wheel, bumper etc off...took bout 4 hours

Taking bumper off and engines out is the easy pansy way of doing it.

I did it with my bare teeth in a hurricane on the side of the M3!

Least it wasnt raining

No, it was HAIL AND SNOW! And I only had a pair of pants on and a spoon to undo bolts with. It's a true story!

[Wobba]

Engine out eh? Whilst your there clean the ISCV, take the rad out and give it a check for leaks (fill with water, shouldnt leave rads empty anyway, put somewhere warm & dry and return to it later and see if there are any drips on floor...).

If no leaks give it a serious flush and shake it about loads! You'll be amazed at how much crap comes out. Good opportunity to replace hoses as well, along with cambelt and pulleys and check other stuff for leaks like thermohousing.

Also, with engine out you could remove/clean the inlet manifold and stick a PTFE gasket on. In fact, why not replace the headgasket while your there and paint the block :D

My bill is hovering near a grand as it is. Im pretty much at my limit finacially, I'd love to get the hoses changed, but it'll have to wait.

Aux pulley, timing belt and water pump are being done, and also the rocker gasket.

Lol yea the cost spirals easily!

[Smokey McPot]

The engine is coming out to fit the water pump. Gay.

Ive had water pump done on mine - no need to take engine out, just take wheel, bumper etc off...took bout 4 hours

Taking bumper off and engines out is the easy pansy way of doing it.

I did it with my bare teeth in a hurricane on the side of the M3!

Least it wasnt raining

No, it was HAIL AND SNOW! And I only had a pair of pants on and a spoon to undo bolts with. It's a true story!

Unless you were on fire, I'm not impressed.

[Smokey McPot]

Seeing as the engine is out, I may as well put a new clutch in, hadn't I? :roll:

[talkingfish]

you might as well - you wouldn't want to get it all put back together and the clutch go in 6 months time....

I had it happen with 0101.... I had the engine out for various things then the gearbox went 3 months later.... big bills..... stood me at over £2k once finished....

[Smokey McPot]

Mines getting that way, I spent near £700 on parts before it went in. The garage bill is just over £1k now, and thats mostly labour.

I keep telling myself its worth it.

[Smokey McPot]

Well I have it back, a fair bit of money later. Its to have my baby however, I'm havin real trouble finding the gears. The garage said that if I have any issues to bring it back for adjustment, which is good.

[Wobba]

Well I have it back, a fair bit of money later. Its to have my baby however, I'm havin real trouble finding the gears. The garage said that if I have any issues to bring it back for adjustment, which is good.

Probably just the gear selection needs adjusting. Any gears in particular? Check gearbox mount is on nice and tight as well.

[Smokey McPot]

First and second.

[GavinMccoull]

Out of interest how much did you pay for your dogbone engine mount? I took a trip to my local renault dealer to price a few parts.

Bottom engine mount £73.84
Gearbox moubt £41.58
Top strut mounts £25.77 each

[Smokey McPot]

£40 from someone on here. Still sealed and new :)

[Smokey McPot]

Took it for a run today, seemed to have loosened up a bit. However towards the end it got harder to select gears.

Feels as though I cant get the gears to engage.

Gonna take it in on monday for some adjustment.

Its all taxed and legal now, which is sweet. Now comes the suspension/geometry parts....fun.

[Smokey McPot]

My drivers seat feels a bit loose. There is a noticable movement in it when I sit down. But feels like the whole seat is moving, rather than just the back.

I presume that maybe some bolts on the frame need tightening? Are the seats known to loosen over time/wear?

[Justin..]

is it easy to select gears with engine off?

[Smokey McPot]

is it easy to select gears with engine off?

Yeah.

Is that significant? :)

I drove it up to the garage today, and it was better again. However the clutch is biting at the very bottom of the action (fully extended leg) so I've asked for it to be adjusted to be further up.

[Justin..]

theres no adjustment its self adjusting


cable / pedal could be fubared

[Smokey McPot]

New cable. Renault one.

[GavinMccoull]

Sounds strange that it gets worse then better. Maybe the clutch cable is getting stuck somewhere? Have you checked your gearbox oil level? Not sure that this would affect it though because im just a novice. Hope you have success at the garage.

Gav

[Smokey McPot]

theres no adjustment its self adjusting


cable / pedal could be fubared

This sounds reasonable, now I have it back its significantly better although there is noticeable play at the top of the pedal. This was there before the clutch. Would that indicate a new pedal is the way to go?

[schakal]

lets hope your garage was clever enough to change the pivot bush
on the gearbox or put the correct grade of oil in there .

apart from that it can be worn clutch pedal ratchet mechanism as allready
mentioned .

[Smokey McPot]

I'll have a look on the parts invoice.

Am I right in thinking the pivot bush can only be replaced when the clutch is out?

[schakal]

when the gearbox is out ^^

but gear change problems occuring when the gearbox is warmer
sounds like the oil to me .

[Smokey McPot]

I'll keep an eye on it, I'm running it up to Bradistan in a few days, I'll see what its like on the Mway.

[Smokey McPot]

Gearbox is A OK now, gave it a good run in and its selecting through the range as poorly as it ever did.

Next on my shopping list is the suspension and related parts. If you have any tips about that to replace I'd appreciate it. I have:

Springs
Dampers
Top mounts
ARB and bushes

I'm also going to investigate the clutch pedal and see if I can resolve the play in it.

Oh, and I dont believe the pivot bush was changed when the clutch was.

[eternalife]

Gearbox is A OK now, gave it a good run in and its selecting through the range as poorly as it ever did.

Next on my shopping list is the suspension and related parts. If you have any tips about that to replace I'd appreciate it. I have:

Springs
Dampers
Top mounts
ARB and bushes

I'm also going to investigate the clutch pedal and see if I can resolve the play in it.

Oh, and I dont believe the pivot bush was changed when the clutch was.

http://www.williamsclio.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32905

[Smokey McPot]

Cheers man. Thats exactly what I needed :)

[eternalife]

Cheers man. Thats exactly what I needed :)

No probs 8)

[Smokey McPot]

Next on my list is brakes. For a long time I've had issues with the front right caliper sticking I've had it off and stipped a couple of times, which has temporarily resolved the issue.

I'm now thinking I might just opt for new brakes all round, calipers, lines, pads, discs and fluid.

I looked into new new calipers through Renault a while back and vaguely remember them only offering re-furbs, is this still the case? If so I think I'd prefer shiny new ones.

Has anyone recently changed their brake setup recently and could perhaps shed any light?

[eternalife]

Tried Brakes international for new parts?
Matty (f4r mk1) bought some stuff from there in the not too distant past and remember him saying it was considerably less than reno prices.

[Smokey McPot]

I hvaen't, but I will look into it. Thanks.

[Smokey McPot]

My engine appears to be using coolant. This makes me sad.

What are the most common causes? Where is it most likely to leak from?

Also, my gear change action is becoming increasing inaccurate and 3 gear is grinding quite often. I didnt have the pivot bush changed when the clutch was. Can anyone suggest reasons why, simply the pivot bush being old and worn or a symptom of a bigger issue waiting to unleash itself?

[Coops]

gearbox could be clutch issue but for me its always the synchros shedding teeth :( last box went like this, eventually could hardly get it into 3rd without a seriously long wait on upshift and literally no chance on downshift

coolant could be a million things. worst case its head gasket but check the oil cap for mayo and coolant cap for oil contamination. if theres none get a pressure check on the system done by a garage, may be able to pinpoint other issues such as leaking water pump, split hose, knackered rad or heater matrix, leaking stat housing etc etc

[16v_paddy]

I also didn't have my pivot bush changed at the same time I had the clutch done & pretty much knackered the box :cry:

[MatBrown]

Water leak could be the pump or back corner of the headgasket.


Mat.

[VIPERONE]

tut how long is this taking ;-)

[Smokey McPot]

I keep spending money on records and £200 fans and booze. My priorities are messed up. :roll: :D

I hope its not the water pump, thats all shiny and new. Equally the head gasket would quite annoying.

I'll get the garage to do a bit of digging about regarding the problems, the synchro thingy sounds interesting, your problem Coops sounds almost identical to mine. Sometimes the change is bang on, other times sounds like a washing machine full of rocks.

[Smokey McPot]

The oil thing is just it using oil like most old cars I think, its been subjected to lots of short journeys recently and not really been given chance to get warm, keeping an eye on it and have a bottle to top up when need be.

Water-wise, it was actually only the gap between min and max in the header that was the difference, I must have put less than 200ml of fluid in to top it up.

New brakes today. Pads and discs all round and calipers up front. POW.

Gearbox remains the same, but works perfectly higher up the rev range, so I'll just thrash it everywhere (once its warm, of course).

[Smokey McPot]

Next on the list is Steering. Lock to lock when still it sounds horrid and is far to heavy.

I'm pretty sure its linked to some belt or something or other, plus the pump whines. Can anyone help with me with a list of parts I should look into replacing. Is it worth going as far as the rack?

[franksvalver]

Could be a knackered PAS pump?

Rack dont generally 'go'. Would start leaking first more than anything

No.125 had similar heavy steering issues :lol: