View Full Version : turbo and injectors
hi iv just nailed a turbo to my megane 2l 16v engine and was wondering how far i can go with my injectors. does anyone know the flow rate or how many hp they can make before bigger ones are needed. thanks
not very far at all i'd guess, need some 21 turbo ones at least for a decent amount of boost. best way to check tho is get it mapped/rolling roaded if its on a chip and see how the fuelling is
sideways danny
18-08-2009, 01:24
they're ~210cc as standard. 21 turbo injectors are 280cc
a rough formula is:
injector CC
5 x number of cylinders
that gives you an idea of bhp at a safe duty cycle (around 80%)
sideways danny
18-08-2009, 01:25
that didn't come out looking quite right
injector CC, divided by 5, then timesed by number of cylinders
Smokey McPot
18-08-2009, 09:18
Would it be
(Injector CC/5) x Cylinder
or
Injector CC/5 x Cylinder
?
The answers are different you see.
volymmannen
18-08-2009, 10:43
Would it be
(Injector CC/5) x Cylinder
or
Injector CC/5 x Cylinder
?
The answers are different you see.
(Injector CC/5) x Cylinder you never use the other
224bhp supposedly for mine then............mmmmmmmm :lol:
volymmannen
18-08-2009, 10:50
even R21 turbo are small
280/5=56*4 =224
only 224 hp
i use 468cc last for about 375hp 8)
Smokey McPot
18-08-2009, 12:00
Would it be
(Injector CC/5) x Cylinder
or
Injector CC/5 x Cylinder
?
The answers are different you see.
(Injector CC/5) x Cylinder you never use the other
Thought as much, its important to clarify these things sometimes :)
even R21 turbo are small
280/5=56*4 =224
only 224 hp
i use 468cc last for about 375hp 8)
i run 277bhp at the minute with R21 turbo injectors, so guessing they are at full duty cycle :lol: fuels fine according to wideband anyway
The 802's are 284 (r21) and also some volvo engines
The 803's are 390 and come out of a Porche 944
SO for 80% duty cycle
227.2 off the 802's
312 bhp off the 803's
Sure you dont have 803's coops?
does the duty cycle not also depend on fuel pressure..as raising the fuel pressure will allow more fuel..
these are 284 @ 3 bar iirc...
not a clue, they are BBPT low boost turbo injectors from the original conversion
The 802's are 284 (r21) and also some volvo engines
The 803's are 390 and come out of a Porche 944
SO for 80% duty cycle
227.2 off the 802's
312 bhp off the 803's
Sure you dont have 803's coops?i thought 803's where cossie injectors
volymmannen
18-08-2009, 23:48
does the duty cycle not also depend on fuel pressure..as raising the fuel pressure will allow more fuel..
these are 284 @ 3 bar iirc...
yes if you have higher fuel pressure the injectors are rate higher so get a lower duty cycle.... but i think you need bigger if you want more power..
volymmannen
18-08-2009, 23:51
even R21 turbo are small
280/5=56*4 =224
only 224 hp
i use 468cc last for about 375hp 8)
i run 277bhp at the minute with R21 turbo injectors, so guessing they are at full duty cycle :lol: fuels fine according to wideband anyway
what ecu do you use ?? a chipped standard?? 277 bhp how high boost ??
15.5psi, chipped ecu (fastchip) has run 253, 268 and 277bhp on different RR at same spec, so tbh its up in the air how many bhp it has
sideways danny
19-08-2009, 01:55
15.5psi, chipped ecu (fastchip) has run 253, 268 and 277bhp on different RR at same spec, so tbh its up in the air how many bhp it has
If it's the old BB setup, that turbo is about maxed at 260bhp (give or take).
Fuel pressure can give you a little extra, but not as much as you'd think. Off the top of my head I think it's something like 30% extra flow for doubling pressure. Most injectors quote their flow rate at 3bar
If it's the old BB setup, that turbo is about maxed at 260bhp (give or take).
i thought the GT28RS was good for nearly350/400bhp in the form fitted to these engines. thats what i was told by a few turbo gurus including vince at cr that built the items..
it is, Dan in confused thinking its the old t28 with the 270 degree bearing in it, blew that up a while back :wink: :lol:
sideways danny
19-08-2009, 10:41
ah GT28RS is lovely, I have 1 on my 200sx. Will do 340ish with the 0.64 exhaust housing
sideways danny
19-08-2009, 10:43
I ran 294bhp at 0.85bar and 323bhp at 1.15bar with mine on a 1.8
The 802's are 284 (r21) and also some volvo engines
The 803's are 390 and come out of a Porche 944
SO for 80% duty cycle
227.2 off the 802's
312 bhp off the 803's
Sure you dont have 803's coops?i thought 803's where cossie injectors
Mightr well be, i just k now they were used for the 944's ;)
they are cossie injectors aswell, same part number :wink:
mine runs 277bhp at 1.1bar on the valver, or maybe 253 or maybe 268 :lol: depends which rr you believe
pretty sure same exhaust trim housing
sideways danny
19-08-2009, 12:53
should be over 300 at a bar on that really.... time for a proper ECU ;)
:lol: give me 1500 quid and i'll get one :wink:
Do it for about 1k on emerald, but no doubt everyone will say use a omex!
But emerald all the way for me ;)
mega squirt for me. i have it running now but i cant see that equation is right or im understanding it wrong cos i make it 168 bhp max but its 160 b4 turbo and there no where near maxed.
iv gone the high compression turbo rout with a small volume of tubing and cooler routing. for minimum lag and its amazing. iv taken it to 8 psi but mostly staying about 5. full boost at 2400. starts boosting at 1200rpm and pulls all the way but its not mapped properly yet so has flat spots.
Im not totaly sure what your meaning about high compression ?
Do you mean you are running high comp pistons on a turbo engine?
16v_paddy
21-08-2009, 02:08
I think he might mean high compression for a turbo'd engine, like standard pistons with boost or the CR lowered ever so slightly :?:
i am keeping the standard compression snd running low boost. as i cant stand lag. and it seems to have worked fairly well. if u ignore the swooshing noises it just feels like a big n/a engine.
you deffo dont want to go much more then 8psi then, things will start melting :D
If your unsure on your fueling, get some r21 injectors as there are loads of sets for sale atm.
The 802's are 284 (r21) and also some volvo engines
The 803's are 390 and come out of a Porche 944
SO for 80% duty cycle
227.2 off the 802's
312 bhp off the 803's
Sure you dont have 803's coops?i thought 803's where cossie injectors
Mightr well be, i just k now they were used for the 944's ;)
Interesting thread I do wonder how you do it on 802 Coops as my setup is basically the same as yours and I struggle to hit 7psi with decent WOT fueling on 802's on a fastchips High boost chip. Was the low boost chip done with 802's or were both the low and high boost chip done with the 802's? or should the high boost chip be using the 803's?. I have a set of 803's I am going to stick in and try out and see if they make any difference
I assume it was supposed to be the 803's
from memory the orignal chips that bbpt done went something like this :
Low boost 10psi?, 210bhp use's 802's
High boost 15psi 260-270bhp use's 802's
Very high boost 20psi+, 320bhp use's 803's
I assume it was supposed to be the 803's
That was my thinking if you go by the calc's above the 802's are just not capable of flowing for the bhp I should be getting roughly but the 803's are. Only question due to struggling to fuel for WOT driving, I am using Walbro 255, rising rate reg set @ 3bar, ok I can turn the fpr up some more but it will just richen up the rest of the range aswell.
I have some 803's I will try out
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