Clutch wont disengage

[16v_paddy]

Had enough of this now so calling out for some help, preferably the kind where you tell me to my face I'm shit & fix it for me :oops:

Got my new engine & gearbox in, all working fine except for the bit that the clutch wont disengage :x I'm guessing the issue is the cable, the ratchet or both :roll:

I haven't got a clue how to sort these and the last time I done the clutch cable I royally ****ed it up :oops: so I can't trust myself to sort it (if I knew how)

Soy boys & girls, how do I sort it :?:

[col]

Hi paddy, when you say the clutch wont disengage do you mean the peddle wont return or the clutch is stickin on!

[Justin..]

when was it last used? engine been stored outside? it may have siezed on?

[16v_paddy]

As in the clutch is sticking on, goes into gear fine but not when the engine's running

Put my foot on the clutch, put it in 1st gear then start the engine it's trying to bugger off

[Justin..]

all cars will go in gear reasonably well with out the clutch pedal depressed with the engine off. that doesnt tell you much tbh

[bbaazz-08]

sounds like your clutch release fork is bent/cracked or else there is a problem with the ratchet system that the cable isnt getting pulled enough

[midge]

have you re-set the ratchet? ill put my money on that.

[16v_paddy]

sounds like your clutch release fork is bent/cracked or else there is a problem with the ratchet system that the cable isnt getting pulled enough

That's exactly what I'm thinking

I shall not be impressed if my new(ish)clutch fork is bent though :cry:

I've got no idea how to do anything with the ratchet :?

[bbaazz-08]

i dont think you realy have to go near the ratchet system or shoudnt have to ??? im not sure.............but what you can do is disconnect the cable at the fork and put a vice grip on the fork and see if you can pull it .....when pulling it, it should be hard then easy if you get me....like your pulling past the half point which is stiff ........when you have that pulled back, get someone else to put the handbrake on, start the engine and check if it will go in gear, if not the problem lies with the fork or the pressure plate

a bit confusing but ya should get what im saying ;)

[16v_paddy]

I see what you're getting at

can't see it being the pressure plate though as it's brand new

[bbaazz-08]

ok well i doubt it will be that then.....do this anyway to check the fork...........was there a pivot bush on the bellhousing for the fork??....................could be just the ratchet system reset maybe :s

[flash]

mine does this.. but its intermittent.. have no idea what it is.. it has to be clutch issues of some sort..

[volymmannen]

I see what you're getting at

can't see it being the pressure plate though as it's brand new
could be wrong anyway

[williams300]

I see what you're getting at

can't see it being the pressure plate though as it's brand new

its the centre of your clutch thats warn where the gearbox spinel goes into the clutch do hear any noises coming from the clutch wen its on tick over if you do go i the car and put the clutch in bet you the noise will go away and wen you release it comes back your pressure plate should be fine because you shouldstill have pressure on your peddal

[16v_paddy]

ok well i doubt it will be that then.....do this anyway to check the fork...........was there a pivot bush on the bellhousing for the fork??....................could be just the ratchet system reset maybe :s

:lol: was definately 1 there, the bush in my old box was worn down to nothing

[col]

Sounds like its seizing on the spline/ shaft,so clutch pedal movement is relatively easy ye ?............the ole trick used to be ,engine off select 3rd gear get a mate an rock the car back an forth also try removin rubber housin on gearbox an squirt some "start ya bastard".....or wd 40 onto rear of spline an see if that helps.


( For those of you that dont know its an Austalian type wd40)

[16v_paddy]

You lost me on rubber housing on the box :? :?

[col]

The one that protects the release fork housing (nr clutch cable end)

[16v_paddy]

I get you now :oops:

[schakal]

Had enough of this now so calling out for some help, preferably the kind where you tell me to my face I'm s**t & fix it for me :oops:

Got my new engine & gearbox in, all working fine except for the bit that the clutch wont disengage :x I'm guessing the issue is the cable, the ratchet or both :roll:

I haven't got a clue how to sort these and the last time I done the clutch cable I royally f**ked it up :oops: so I can't trust myself to sort it (if I knew how)

Soy boys & girls, how do I sort it :?:

easy now son !!!

rewind back from that ^^^ point , whats the history with the
new engine and box ?? have you seperated them before fitting ?
if so whats been fitted new ??

[16v_paddy]

Bought the engine and box separate but they're from the same car, the engine already had a newish clutch on it but I put a new one on anyway. Also got a new pivot bush in the box

[schakal]

Bought the engine and box separate but they're from the same car, the engine already had a newish clutch on it but I put a new one on anyway. Also got a new pivot bush in the box

now we are on the same page :D
you sure you fitted the clutch right way around ??
what was the condition of the clutch release bearing ,
have you replaced that ??

[16v_paddy]

Thought the clutch could only go on 1 way round :? located the dowels on the flywheel into the holes for them on the cover plate

the release bearing is new as well, came with the clutch which is a valeo item

[schakal]

Thought the clutch could only go on 1 way round :? located the dowels on the flywheel into the holes for them on the cover plate

the release bearing is new as well, came with the clutch which is a valeo item

i heard a few special people managed to fit it wrong way :wink:
have you got correct grade and enough amount of oil in the box ??

have you tried spacing the clutch cable out to see
if streching is the problem ??

[16v_paddy]

Yeah, spaced it out with a load of washers & it made sod all difference

got plenty of oil in the box, the problem is that I can't put it in gear with the engine on while its on the floor

[busterhymes]

sorry might have been asked already, is the cable genuine renault and how old and has the clutch pedal assy been replaced recently.
also while not relevant if you have to use spacers then surely that indicates a problem elsewhere that u are tryin to compensate for

[busterhymes]

just a thought was the linkage from the gear lever to gearbox linkage seperated, its the bit at the gearbox end thats clamped with nut and bolt if so it would require readjustment i think unlikely but worth mentioning just to cover all bases

[16v_paddy]

sorry might have been asked already, is the cable genuine renault and how old and has the clutch pedal assy been replaced recently.
also while not relevant if you have to use spacers then surely that indicates a problem elsewhere that u are tryin to compensate for

No not an OE cable but it was only put in around march - I'm hoping it's this but I'm not sure how it's supposed to go, tried to replace it myself when it snapped & I ****ed it up :oops:

Only trying spacers now to see if it's the cable stretching or something, but they've done sod all

[busterhymes]

i would suspect cable could be ur problem i had a similar issue when mine snapped non renault parts seem to vary in length on both inner and outer cable i replaced with renault item and my problem improved but when i changed the pedal adjuster mech perfect gear change
renault cables about £30 i think

clutch cable 6001025926
clutch pedal assy 7701467633

just to add when stood(engine not running) i could select all gears with engine running was near impossible to select first and same with second sound familiar :wink:

[16v_paddy]

just a thought was the linkage from the gear lever to gearbox linkage seperated, its the bit at the gearbox end thats clamped with nut and bolt if so it would require readjustment i think unlikely but worth mentioning just to cover all bases

Yeah it was but I managed to sort that out :lol: can get all gears when stood as well as when the engine's running and it's off the ground.

Impossible to put in gear with the engine running and I'm not exactly a weedy runt either, tried shoving it in like a mofo

:lol:

Here's a curve ball, it's been suggested that I could have put the friction plate of the clutch in the wrong way round.....any ideas on that?

[schakal]

sorry might have been asked already, is the cable genuine renault and how old and has the clutch pedal assy been replaced recently.
also while not relevant if you have to use spacers then surely that indicates a problem elsewhere that u are tryin to compensate for

No not an OE cable but it was only put in around march - I'm hoping it's this but I'm not sure how it's supposed to go, tried to replace it myself when it snapped & I f**ked it up :oops:

Only trying spacers now to see if it's the cable stretching or something, but they've done sod all

FFS paddy , :evil:
you are such a time waster :? :?

[16v_paddy]

well it worked fine for 6 months on my old engine, there's no reason why it suddenly wont work now

[Coops]

becuase its pattern and therefore shite :wink:

i have a gen ren one somewhere you can buy, unused and in its wrapper :D

[16v_paddy]

becuase its pattern and therefore shite :wink:

i have a gen ren one somewhere you can buy, unused and in its wrapper :D

You wanna come fit it for me as well? :D

[busterhymes]

just a thought was the linkage from the gear lever to gearbox linkage seperated, its the bit at the gearbox end thats clamped with nut and bolt if so it would require readjustment i think unlikely but worth mentioning just to cover all bases

Yeah it was but I managed to sort that out :lol: can get all gears when stood as well as when the engine's running and it's off the ground.

Impossible to put in gear with the engine running and I'm not exactly a weedy runt either, tried shoving it in like a Mr shifter

:lol:

Here's a curve ball, it's been suggested that I could have put the friction plate of the clutch in the wrong way round.....any ideas on that?

re curve ball about the friction plate, the centre can be offset not 100% if it is, but if it was the the larger offset side should face away from the flywheel whether its possible to fit wrong way round i dont know

[schakal]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_2Gh_jKNFuSw/RdpuO3_UazI/AAAAAAAABLI/8jg3RBLDIo4/s400/retard.jpg

[Matty86]

could be a duff clutch - i had it recently on an f7...

[Coops]

becuase its pattern and therefore shite :wink:

i have a gen ren one somewhere you can buy, unused and in its wrapper :D

You wanna come fit it for me as well? :D

i'd rather chew my own face off, bastard of a job :P

[col]

Right stop this s**t........did you change the THRUST BEARING?

[16v_paddy]

Right stop this s**t........did you change the THRUST BEARING?

To the best of my knowledge these are thrust bearings and they live inside the block :wink:
http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq165/16v_paddy/Rebuild%20project/IMG_2440.jpg

If you mean the release bearing, that came new as part of the clutch kit I bought

[Justin..]

pedanticism :roll: i call it a thrust bearing :P

[16v_paddy]

pedanticism :roll: i call it a thrust bearing :P

which 1 tho?? :lol:

[Justin..]

:lol: both

[16v_paddy]

:rotflmao:

[col]

Ah i see you were awake at the back !........glad you noticed the deliberate mistake.

(phew i hope nobody noticed)....... :lol:

[schakal]

pedanticism :roll: i call it a thrust bearing :P

i dont trust no fokkin bearing ,they all fail eventually :evil:


:D

[16v_paddy]

Just an update

Fitted a new OE cable and still no joy :roll: But I spoke to MickPM - legend- he told me to fit the new cable & how to route it properly, then to measure how far the fork moves to diagnose the cause of the problem.

This is the helpful bit for anyone else having the same problem..............the clutch fork is supposed to have between 17 & 23mm movement to disengage the clutch. If it has less than 17mm the problem is with the ratchet mechanism and if it's getting the right amount of movement the problem lies with the clutch itself

[col]

OK Paddy ive put on a cable on my sons r5 so same thing....anyway...he fitted it while i was at work,(not a jen cable) an couldnt get any gears.

the movement was about 10mm ..not enough! so i checked routing made sure cable casing didnt flex,an also ratchet on pedal was ok..BUT i still had to add a few washers to the fork end where cable attaches too.

Everything was tickityboo......movement increase by 5 to 10mm

gears ok . This was done last saturday.

[cliokiz]

Shouldn't need any washers on a valver setup, it's self adjusting

[col]

You reckon!...........so,s the r5. same adjustement features.

[16v_paddy]

Right, here's where the fun is at so far, MickPM came round and fitted my new pedal & ratchet. It was definately ****ed and the new 1 works exactly as it should, but we still have the same problem :x

So an hour or so on the phone to valeo & luk has revealed GSF have given me the wrong clutch :shock: but they're insisting they've given me the right one. Either way the engine's coming back out and I need the right clutch, so I've got more fun & games to come :roll:

[Evogone]

Right, here's where the fun is at so far, MickPM came round and fitted my new pedal & ratchet. It was definately f**ked and the new 1 works exactly as it should, but we still have the same problem :x

So an hour or so on the phone to valeo & luk has revealed GSF have given me the wrong clutch :shock: but they're insisting they've given me the right one. Either way the engine's coming back out and I need the right clutch, so I've got more fun & games to come :roll:

Which clutch have they given you ? the Megane and 172 are bigger diam ? R5 and 16v / Williams are all the same dimensions..

[16v_paddy]

They've given me the one from a volvo 480, but valeo say I've got the wrong one and GSF saying the opposite :roll:

could sort it by using a volvo clutch fork but that means spending money I shouldn't have to because of someone elses **** up

[Evogone]

They've given me the one from a volvo 480, but valeo say I've got the wrong one and GSF saying the opposite :roll:

could sort it by using a volvo clutch fork but that means spending money I shouldn't have to because of someone elses f**k up

Im sure if you quote the different part numbers they will sort it out GSF are usually quite good.

[schakal]

They've given me the one from a volvo 480, but valeo say I've got the wrong one and GSF saying the opposite :roll:

could sort it by using a volvo clutch fork but that means spending money I shouldn't have to because of someone elses f**k up

i am pretty sure many 5gtt boys are using the volvo 480 turbo
clutch with succes , at the end of the day the volvo engine is a
glorified (boosted) f2n which uses the same clutch as a f7p/r

any ideas what the exact problem is with the 480 clutch ??

[16v_paddy]

They've given me the one from a volvo 480, but valeo say I've got the wrong one and GSF saying the opposite :roll:

could sort it by using a volvo clutch fork but that means spending money I shouldn't have to because of someone elses f**k up

Im sure if you quote the different part numbers they will sort it out GSF are usually quite good.

The problem is that the volvo clutch's pressure plate & friction plate are thicker than the valver one and need more movement of the clutch fork to fully disengage it.

GSF are saying the part number they supplied me with is right but valeo are saying it's wrong, GSF are pulling the it's probably been put in the wrong box card & insisting they gave me the correct part number.
I'll go down there so we can sort it face to face as it'll be loads easier than over the phone and they can speak to valeo themselves as well

[Coops]

never heard of issue with volvo clutches on clio before though :?

sorry the cable didnt help man :(

[katbloke]

Right stop this s**t........did you change the THRUST BEARING?

To the best of my knowledge these are thrust bearings and they live inside the block :wink:
http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq165/16v_paddy/Rebuild%20project/IMG_2440.jpg

If you mean the release bearing, that came new as part of the clutch kit I bought


Thrust washers actually or at least they were back in the day, clutch plate is a one way round thing, normally stamped flywheel side or something similar, my guess is either that or poorly routed cable

[16v_paddy]

Coops - cable was a big help as the cause of the problem was more than just that

The cable is now 100% routed correct, got a properly workin ratchet as well, the clutch fork is moing at it's maximum to disengage the right clutch

[16v_paddy]

Got the engine out, box off, clutch off. Took me 4 hours with a tea break :D Now I'm off to GSF to see if they can give me the right clutch this time :roll:

[katbloke]

lol what did they supply you with? thought about the r5 uprated clutch?

[16v_paddy]

Yeah thought about the r5 clutch & decided against it.

It seems as though they may have been sent the wrong clutch in the right box as they got another 1 in on exactly the same part number and this 1 is a sachs clutch, the pressure plate and the friction plates are quite a bit thinner than the 1st 1 they sent me, gonna compare it with clutch on my other engine to see what's what

[katbloke]

anymore news?

[16v_paddy]

anymore news?

Yeah, GSF got another clutch in with the same part number and it's a sachs clutch :? compared the 2 and the new 1 had a much thinner pressure plate, I also compared the part numbers from the 1st clutch they gave me with the old clutch that I removed from this engine (thank **** I didn't chuck it :D )
The old 1 was a valeo clutch, the part numbers on this pressure plate were completely different to the one's on the valeo clutch I got from GSF.

So I've got the new clutch fitted, spent ages tidying up the wiring loom and she's ready to go back in the car. So hopefully it will work now [-o<

[col]

Naa with your luck some other s**t will happen :lol: ..............although i hope not!!

[16v_paddy]

Naa with your luck some other s**t will happen :lol: ..............although i hope not!!

all sorted now :groupwave: :groupwave: still some other things ****ed :roll: but they're minor things, it drives so I'm not having to use the scum shuttle anymore :D

[katbloke]

done it?

[katbloke]

dod shoulda read, didnt see any news posts :oops: