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Evogone
06-05-2009, 08:41
Im changing the headgasket and whilst the heads off wondered whats the recommended level of headwork for a std TB car ? should i look to match the inlets and smothout out the TB itself aswell ?

I believe the car has had some porting but dont know until i take it off plus the cams are Spyder cup spec (dont know any details) they are not std as it pulls to the 7900rpm limit.

Thanks for sharing any expertise or experience.

Richardcard1974
06-05-2009, 10:18
Not worth the expense in my opinion.

J o n
06-05-2009, 10:21
as above, but if you do want headwork speak to Omex (specifically Andy) or Neil Roper imo

eternalife
06-05-2009, 10:38
Port-Formance 8)

Evogone
06-05-2009, 10:44
Not worth the expense in my opinion.

Why not ? on all my previous car i have made 20-25hp just through working the head, "cnc heads/ric wood" are very good. 1.9 205 / 16v redtop etc...

There must be gains to be had....?

J o n
06-05-2009, 10:52
Steve, DO NOT touch Ric Wood, he's absolutely ****ing useless... he's local to me and worked on a few of my mates cars... horror stories tbh and expensive bills!

Evogone
06-05-2009, 10:53
Steve, DO NOT touch Ric Wood, he's absolutely f***king useless... he's local to me and worked on a few of my mates cars... horror stories tbh and expensive bills!

Thanks for the info, who is recommended ?

APD ??

Richardcard1974
06-05-2009, 10:56
Not worth the expense in my opinion.

Why not ? on all my previous car i have made 20-25hp just through working the head, "cnc heads/ric wood" are very good. 1.9 205 / 16v redtop etc...

There must be gains to be had....?

Because of the simple fact that the williams head is already well made and it cannot be ported to give major gains.


25 bhp is fantasy island territory for a williams for headwork.

With mild cams and headwork you will make realistically about 15 -20 bhp

Most williams in this spec will be running about 170 - 175 bhp. A rebuild will probably give you another few bhp on top of that.

At most youll get circa 5 bhp from porting. You can get more from changing the valves sizes, but stan will know more about this than me.

Richardcard1974
06-05-2009, 10:57
Steve, DO NOT touch Ric Wood, he's absolutely f***king useless... he's local to me and worked on a few of my mates cars... horror stories tbh and expensive bills!

Thanks for the info, who is recommended ?

APD ??

APD and Nick Hill are two amongst others.

J o n
06-05-2009, 11:06
Steve, DO NOT touch Ric Wood, he's absolutely f***king useless... he's local to me and worked on a few of my mates cars... horror stories tbh and expensive bills!

Thanks for the info, who is recommended ?

APD ??

Andy Cutler, Neil Roper are both exceptionally good at headwork, but I'd look at rods and pistons as well if you are going for a bigger valve head.

Laine_16v
06-05-2009, 11:24
Ive seen portformance vs APD flow graphs.

Craigs flows heads to give gains across the entire range. Portformance was very peaky it didnt gain anything till after 8mm of lift from what i remember.

Angelworks was dog shit (i had to get mine redone)

Evogone
06-05-2009, 11:44
Not worth the expense in my opinion.

Why not ? on all my previous car i have made 20-25hp just through working the head, "cnc heads/ric wood" are very good. 1.9 205 / 16v redtop etc...

There must be gains to be had....?

Because of the simple fact that the williams head is already well made and it cannot be ported to give major gains.


25 bhp is fantasy island territory for a williams for headwork.

With mild cams and headwork you will make realistically about 15 -20 bhp

Most williams in this spec will be running about 170 - 175 bhp. A rebuild will probably give you another few bhp on top of that.

At most youll get circa 5 bhp from porting. You can get more from changing the valves sizes, but stan will know more about this than me.

Im sure APD have done cars with 190+hp with just headwork and cams.....

Im sure he will comment..

Richardcard1974
06-05-2009, 13:04
I have one engine from Nick Hill with headwork and two from Prima and i cant tell any difference in any of them. :lol:

Even cams seesm to make little difference.

Best mod i ever did was getting a rebuild. Engine felt like a rocket ship after that thanks to mr hill.

Richardcard1974
06-05-2009, 13:05
Not worth the expense in my opinion.

Why not ? on all my previous car i have made 20-25hp just through working the head, "cnc heads/ric wood" are very good. 1.9 205 / 16v redtop etc...

There must be gains to be had....?

Because of the simple fact that the williams head is already well made and it cannot be ported to give major gains.


25 bhp is fantasy island territory for a williams for headwork.

With mild cams and headwork you will make realistically about 15 -20 bhp

Most williams in this spec will be running about 170 - 175 bhp. A rebuild will probably give you another few bhp on top of that.

At most youll get circa 5 bhp from porting. You can get more from changing the valves sizes, but stan will know more about this than me.

Im sure APD have done cars with 190+hp with just headwork and cams.....

Im sure he will comment..

Big valve head innit.

190 from headwork (porting) and cams is lala land dreamer town.

MAXIBOY
06-05-2009, 13:24
but works clio ran 280bhp from cams headwork and bodies...

so yes it is possible..just needs a very good head with cams and a very good re-map..

eternalife
06-05-2009, 13:25
Im sure APD have done cars with 190+hp with just headwork and cams.....

Im sure he will comment..

^^ Snowman's car - he frequents RSC more so. Produced very good figures from memory although I think he had issues with the standalone ECU he was using shortly after... :(



Ive seen portformance vs APD flow graphs.

Craigs flows heads to give gains across the entire range. Portformance was very peaky it didnt gain anything till after 8mm of lift from what i remember.

'Peaky' flow figures does not equal peaky engine son - carry on researching :D
Infact if you have too much flow without the lift you can infact cause a car to become 'flat' in operation - losing power at a certain points of its operation...

Without this becoming another 'Port-Formance V every tuner in the world thread' I think the gains they showed with the maps from chipwizards were impressive - even if the maps themself weren't (hangers are a no-no IMO).

fasterthanjesus
06-05-2009, 13:28
a massive shout for apd.

stan
06-05-2009, 13:44
Having no gain before 8mm of lift, then a nice gain after 8mm of lift...is not good. Especially considering std cams lift to say 10mm of lift, and most modified about 11mm. SO in terms of lift versus gain, there is a gain between 8 and 10/11mm...this isnt good, as obviously the valve lift cycle covers 0-10/11mm lift.

The headwork i do provides a gain over the whole lift cycle. It doesnt take much logic to decide this is ALOT better than what is described above.

The other aspect, which is very important, is velocity. Im probably one of the few head flow people who has spent the time velocity mapping ports on these heads, to find what works and what doesnt. I know for a fact the other people mentioned here dont do this.
Once my engine dyno cell is complete, this will be fully verified, leading to a range of heads with specific ENGINE gains...again something nobody does anymore..

Steve if you want any more info from me, drop me an email/pm.

stan
06-05-2009, 13:48
Not worth the expense in my opinion.

Why not ? on all my previous car i have made 20-25hp just through working the head, "cnc heads/ric wood" are very good. 1.9 205 / 16v redtop etc...

There must be gains to be had....?

Because of the simple fact that the williams head is already well made and it cannot be ported to give major gains.


25 bhp is fantasy island territory for a williams for headwork.

With mild cams and headwork you will make realistically about 15 -20 bhp

Most williams in this spec will be running about 170 - 175 bhp. A rebuild will probably give you another few bhp on top of that.

At most youll get circa 5 bhp from porting. You can get more from changing the valves sizes, but stan will know more about this than me.

Im sure APD have done cars with 190+hp with just headwork and cams.....

Im sure he will comment..

Big valve head innit.

190 from headwork (porting) and cams is lala land dreamer town.

Nope, big valves werent required for the level of spec.

My williams headwork, catcams 5502225, wossner forged pistons giving 12.5:1 Cr, and a PROPERLY built engine, not just cobbled togther...but proper attention to detail on all clearances (this makes a considerable difference alone).
This made 192/193bhp or there abouts. Which is coincidentally 5% more than the same spec without the pistons. 5% being the theoretical gain from 2.5 points increase in comp ratio.

Evogone
06-05-2009, 14:32
So SpongeRob shows "again" you dont really know much.......

Thanks Stan will pop you a PM.

Is there anyway of finding out the spec of my cams ?

stan
06-05-2009, 14:40
See if theres any part numbers on the ends...remove the dizzy and drive boss to check end of exhst cam would probably be the easiest option.

Other than checking for visual identity, you could measure the lift and duration if you have the time. You'd need a micrometer, DTI, degree wheel, and a V stand.

Richardcard1974
06-05-2009, 14:51
Not worth the expense in my opinion.

Why not ? on all my previous car i have made 20-25hp just through working the head, "cnc heads/ric wood" are very good. 1.9 205 / 16v redtop etc...

There must be gains to be had....?

Because of the simple fact that the williams head is already well made and it cannot be ported to give major gains.


25 bhp is fantasy island territory for a williams for headwork.

With mild cams and headwork you will make realistically about 15 -20 bhp

Most williams in this spec will be running about 170 - 175 bhp. A rebuild will probably give you another few bhp on top of that.

At most youll get circa 5 bhp from porting. You can get more from changing the valves sizes, but stan will know more about this than me.

Im sure APD have done cars with 190+hp with just headwork and cams.....

Im sure he will comment..

Big valve head innit.

190 from headwork (porting) and cams is lala land dreamer town.

Nope, big valves werent required for the level of spec.

My williams headwork, catcams 5502225, wossner forged pistons giving 12.5:1 Cr, and a PROPERLY built engine, not just cobbled togther...but proper attention to detail on all clearances (this makes a considerable difference alone).
This made 192/193bhp or there abouts. Which is coincidentally 5% more than the same spec without the pistons. 5% being the theoretical gain from 2.5 points increase in comp ratio.


:lol:

Richardcard1974
06-05-2009, 14:53
So SpongeRob shows "again" you dont really know much.......

Thanks Stan will pop you a PM.

Is there anyway of finding out the spec of my cams ?

No, stan said to get 190 bhp you need modification to the pistons AND a rebuilt engine.

CAN YOU READ SPIV BOY?

stan
06-05-2009, 14:54
Not totally sure where the humour is coming from their sunny jim :D

Evogone
06-05-2009, 15:08
So SpongeRob shows "again" you dont really know much.......

Thanks Stan will pop you a PM.

Is there anyway of finding out the spec of my cams ?

No, stan said to get 190 bhp you need modification to the pistons AND a rebuilt engine.

CAN YOU READ SPIV BOY?

LOL at you this was one engine with just porting and cams im sure with a different cam you could reach 190. Not the dreamland stuff as you suggest....

Crusty Crab beckons.... :wink:

Richardcard1974
06-05-2009, 17:55
Just to recap what stan actually said, not what you imagined he said:

My williams headwork, catcams 5502225, wossner forged pistons giving 12.5:1 Cr, and a PROPERLY built engine, not just cobbled togther...but proper attention to detail on all clearances (this makes a considerable difference alone).
This made 192/193bhp or there abouts.

So NO. If it takes all that to get to 192 bhp, headwork and cams will not.

It doesnt matter how big the knot in your tie or how much hair gel is in your hair. Its NOT going to happen.

MAXIBOY
06-05-2009, 19:10
in your opinion...i think with the right head work and the right cams on the right engine you will see over 190bhp

seen over 210 on a standard inlet so why not..

Evogone
06-05-2009, 19:16
in your opinion...i think with the right head work and the right cams on the right engine you will see over 190bhp

seen over 210 on a standard inlet so why not..

Exactly....

Richardcard1974
06-05-2009, 19:22
but works clio ran 280bhp from cams headwork and bodies...

so yes it is possible..just needs a very good head with cams and a very good re-map..

They ran titanium valves. Not eactly within reach of the track day amateur is it?


Jesus wept.

Richardcard1974
06-05-2009, 19:23
in your opinion...i think with the right head work and the right cams on the right engine you will see over 190bhp

seen over 210 on a standard inlet so why not..

Exactly....

So why ask if you already know the answer? Or did you already know what you want to think, and are just gathering evidence to support your delusion?

stan
06-05-2009, 19:30
With wilder cams I dare say the one mentioned would make 200bhp.

Defintely after a bit of exhaut manifold work...

Evogone
06-05-2009, 19:41
in your opinion...i think with the right head work and the right cams on the right engine you will see over 190bhp

seen over 210 on a standard inlet so why not..

Exactly....

So why ask if you already know the answer? Or did you already know what you want to think, and are just gathering evidence to support your delusion?

Just to laugh at you when you fall into another hole you have dug....

As Stan says 190hp is possible with a different cam......

MAXIBOY
06-05-2009, 20:01
but works clio ran 280bhp from cams headwork and bodies...

so yes it is possible..just needs a very good head with cams and a very good re-map..

They ran titanium valves. Not eactly within reach of the track day amateur is it?


Jesus wept.

no but we were talking 190bhp not 280bhp..plus things have moved on..stainless valves do the same job at less money..

anyway fed up of you....jesus wept yourself..

Tommo
06-05-2009, 20:51
Didn't the Nana make 190 odd bhp with just cams and headwork (waits for the onslaught... :wink: )

Jamie.
06-05-2009, 20:54
Nick Hill for me. Every quick car I have seen he has had something to do with.

Richardcard1974
06-05-2009, 21:04
in your opinion...i think with the right head work and the right cams on the right engine you will see over 190bhp

seen over 210 on a standard inlet so why not..

Exactly....

So why ask if you already know the answer? Or did you already know what you want to think, and are just gathering evidence to support your delusion?

Just to laugh at you when you fall into another hole you have dug....

As Stan says 190hp is possible with a different cam......

Go for it then. Waste your money. You will fall into the trap every one else does and throw good money into an engine to try to make it quick, only to get ur ass handed on a plate by someone like martin or winston who realises that you dont need all this crap to go fast and have fun.

From your videos it looks like your car has some bad understeer, i would sort that before you stand in the shower and rip up 20 pound notes on headwork.

Richardcard1974
06-05-2009, 21:05
Nick Hill for me. Every quick car I have seen he has had something to do with.

Nick is a wise old man.

Tommo
06-05-2009, 21:13
Mine's had headwork, cams and chip done by Hillpower, about 170 bhp iirc, seems faster though...

Richardcard1974
06-05-2009, 21:17
Mine's had headwork, cams and chip done by Hillpower, about 170 bhp iirc, seems faster though...

Same spec as mine, although the headwork was by prima. I estimate it's 170 ish too.

2 live
06-05-2009, 21:29
Nick Hill for me. Every quick car I have seen he has had something to do with.


lmao......i wouldnt let him near mine to put air in the tyres. spec for spec.....mine raped his best build of the time.

Tommo
06-05-2009, 21:44
What's wrong with Hillpower 2live?

Richardcard1974
06-05-2009, 21:45
To be fair i doubt Nick would know which tyres were yours and which were from the tyre wall. They all look the same when they are scattered across the track.

J o n
06-05-2009, 21:46
What's wrong with Hillpower 2live?

2 live is not easy to impress, but then he was the first person on here or CS to run a 14.0 with minimal mods

Richardcard1974
06-05-2009, 21:47
If 2live knows how hard it is to get to 14.0, surely he should have some respect for nicks engine that did a 13.9?

Jamie.
06-05-2009, 21:49
Friendly banter is all good but lets not get too carried away. Rob you have had a couple of shots, 2live keep it within reason then annoying replies will start dissapearing.

Richardcard1974
06-05-2009, 21:51
Last comment was a serious question, surely if you think 14.0 is good, some respect is due to nick for the 13.9, and some credit goes to martin for being a good quater mile pilot.

J o n
06-05-2009, 21:59
If 2live knows how hard it is to get to 14.0, surely he should have some respect for nicks engine that did a 13.9?

he did say mod for mod, in which case i personally can also not see a car that has come close at the time. The Nana was the closest, but had a 6500rpm limit... but it also had less weight as it was stripped. That was when Mehdi had it. Tbh the respect thing works both ways, Jon built that engine on the back street on a modest budget, which imo is something to be proud of. That car did nothing short of amaze me when I went out in it.

Richardcard1974
06-05-2009, 22:03
And to be fair Nick works from a small lock up on a farm and has the same sort of tools avaialble to him as most petrol heads.


Martins car had standard cams and was pretty standard lump i seem to remember. OK it was lighter, but im sure 2live has the rear seats out as well.


Plus he has less hair than martin so that saves some weight too :wink:

2 live
06-05-2009, 22:07
as above really.


spec for spec, that engine would have been running mid 13s easy in martins shell.....

i chose to have comforts in my car, and things that work, windows, heater, radio etc etc etc. hence the 14.0


i have no respect for so called 'experts' that cant beat an amatuers build, built on a tight budget, in less than ideal conditions. i.e on the back street, with minimal tools. i have never tried to hide my feelings in that respect. and it doesnt stop at nick either.

Richardcard1974
06-05-2009, 22:08
as above really.


spec for spec, that engine would have been running mid 13s easy in martins shell.....

i chose to have comforts in my car, and things that work, windows, heater, radio etc etc etc. hence the 14.0


i have no respect for so called 'experts' that cant beat an amatuers build, built on a tight budget, in less than ideal conditions. i.e on the back street, with minimal tools. i have never tried to hide my feelings in that respect. and it doesnt stop at nick either.

But he did beat you. 13.9 v 14.0

2 live
06-05-2009, 22:10
om harking back to the days of the clio rossa also..a very quick car i thought....til i built my own and raped it.....severely....

2 live
06-05-2009, 22:11
yes rob......he got a quicker time.

the point being?

Richardcard1974
06-05-2009, 22:13
The point being that if you think you are better than Nick, why not prove it and do a 13.8.

Balls in your court son.

stan
06-05-2009, 22:13
NA Clio breaking the 12 sec barier FTW 8)

2 live
06-05-2009, 22:14
om harking back to the days of the clio rossa also..a very quick car i thought....til i built my own and raped it.....severely....


btw......the times here being 14.2 for the rossa......nick hills quickest build...........vs.......14.0........my 1st build ;)

Evogone
06-05-2009, 22:14
in your opinion...i think with the right head work and the right cams on the right engine you will see over 190bhp

seen over 210 on a standard inlet so why not..

Exactly....

So why ask if you already know the answer? Or did you already know what you want to think, and are just gathering evidence to support your delusion?

Just to laugh at you when you fall into another hole you have dug....

As Stan says 190hp is possible with a different cam......

Go for it then. Waste your money. You will fall into the trap every one else does and throw good money into an engine to try to make it quick, only to get ur ass handed on a plate by someone like martin or winston who realises that you dont need all this crap to go fast and have fun.

From your videos it looks like your car has some bad understeer, i would sort that before you stand in the shower and rip up 20 pound notes on headwork.

Oh SpongeNob :roll:

What a silly comment....

I do have fun and im competitive against car 5 times or more the cost of mine..Why would i get my ass on a plate ??

Driver - think i can hold my own there or i would be competitive.

Weight ? a cup racer is very light indeed so can not be that, plus FG bonnet theres not much more to take out apart from glass.

Handling ? its as is cup racer spec so con not be that bad ask northy and other cup owners. Did renault design a poor handling car for a one make series ?

Understeer ? LOL turn in is never a problem and with the diff it makes it even more livelier, infact it oversteers if anything.

I havent wasted any money trying to get anything yet and TBH if i wanted more HP them would just buy bolt on ITBs and away you go.


As highlighted on many occassion you have no credibility and latest rant has just further diminished what ever credibility you had left.

Shame on you SpongeNob.. :roll:

Jamie.
06-05-2009, 22:14
To recap -

For the headwork we have:

Port Formance
APD
Nick Hill

2 live
06-05-2009, 22:15
The point being that if you think you are better than Nick, why not prove it and do a 13.8.

Balls in your court son.


lol... no mate.....let him build a williams, with rear seats out..that runs 13.9............balls in his court.....as it has been for .oooooooo 5 years?? lmao

Richardcard1974
06-05-2009, 22:16
I will give it a go to do some headwork. How hard can it be?

100 pounds and ill throw in a full body massage

stan
06-05-2009, 22:18
To recap -

For the headwork we have:

Port Formance
APD
Nick Hill


Good effort, but "Loosing battle" springs to mind pal :lol: :lol:

Richardcard1974
06-05-2009, 22:19
The point being that if you think you are better than Nick, why not prove it and do a 13.8.

Balls in your court son.


lol... no mate.....let him build a williams, with rear seats out..that runs 13.9............balls in his court.....as it has been for .oooooooo 5 years?? lmao

Jill ran a 15.1 in her first and only go at 1/4 mile in a 172. In a standard car with full interior she just filled with petrol.

Surely on your criteria, thats better than yours and martins time?

Evogone
06-05-2009, 22:19
Lets all have a beer at the Crusty crab..!!

SpongeNob empty your piggy bank beers are one you..!! We all want to hear your filtration stories.... :D

2 live
06-05-2009, 22:23
The point being that if you think you are better than Nick, why not prove it and do a 13.8.

Balls in your court son.


lol... no mate.....let him build a williams, with rear seats out..that runs 13.9............balls in his court.....as it has been for .oooooooo 5 years?? lmao

Jill ran a 15.1 in her first and only go at 1/4 mile in a 172. In a standard car with full interior she just filled with petrol.

Surely on your criteria, thats better than yours and martins time?


i have no criteria........i was there when jill ran at york.........im sure it was a tad slower than that. ;)

Richardcard1974
06-05-2009, 22:24
She beat Hippy chick if you remember. And she was 3 up with a suitcase in the boot.

2 live
06-05-2009, 22:27
ur only allowed 1 up on teh strip mate.



i remember her gettin out the car cos she dint have a clue as to what the xmas tree was.....go on green love......was the advice i think

Richardcard1974
06-05-2009, 22:29
ur only allowed 1 up on teh strip mate.



i remember her gettin out the car cos she dint have a clue as to what the xmas tree was.....go on green love......was the advice i think

You seem to know a lot about the run, having a good look were you?

2 live
06-05-2009, 22:38
i have it on video somewhere.........lol

Richardcard1974
06-05-2009, 22:39
Link, I would like to see that.

2 live
06-05-2009, 22:57
is too big to get it on youtube.........is a long vid.

eternalife
06-05-2009, 23:08
http://www.williamsclio.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18234

http://www.williamsclio.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25370

http://www.williamsclio.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23424

Richardcard1974
06-05-2009, 23:17
Post link please (;))

jay s
06-05-2009, 23:35
ive done 13.9 in my hybrid which has been worked on by nick, not exactly stripped either as it still has all creature comforts in place :D bass direct owns that clio rossa now and ive raped that quite abit too :wink: im having headwork and new cams done by nick at the min so am hoping it to be even better than it is now, qtr mile will tell :D

Richardcard1974
07-05-2009, 09:04
ive done 13.9 in my hybrid which has been worked on by nick, not exactly stripped either as it still has all creature comforts in place :D bass direct owns that clio rossa now and ive raped that quite abit too :wink: im having headwork and new cams done by nick at the min so am hoping it to be even better than it is now, qtr mile will tell :D

You should have left that hillpower induction kit on.

J o n
07-05-2009, 10:26
I'd be amazed if an IK did anything for SQM times lol. TBH I prefer Jenvey's induction kit :)

Richardcard1974
07-05-2009, 11:04
Id like to see a cup race car with sadev and slicks do a SQM. I think they can do sub 11 seconds 0-100 so should be quick.

J o n
07-05-2009, 11:16
Cup car would run high 12's, low 13's imo. They are insane off the line and out of corners, but on the move with ITB's round Snetterton we could easily hold them off on the straights... and I do mean easily. Think they must be geared really short

Laine_16v
07-05-2009, 11:37
lmfao at portformance graphs. Make pretty much standard flow rate to 8mm of lift (which is what i think the standard cams lift to.).

Most of that graph shows flow figures for cam lifts that nobody is ever going to use.

14mm lift cams anyone?

Richardcard1974
07-05-2009, 13:19
Cup car would run high 12's, low 13's imo. They are insane off the line and out of corners, but on the move with ITB's round Snetterton we could easily hold them off on the straights... and I do mean easily. Think they must be geared really short

Here is you with throttle bodies round snetterton in two videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiE5pJLd2-M&feature=channel_page

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ji9B8gXPV8&feature=channel_page

And here is Niki Laniks 2006 MK2 clio cup race car:

http://video.google.co.uk/videosearch?q=sneterton+clio+cup&hl=en&emb=0&aq=f#hl=en&emb=0&aq=f&q=snetterton+clio+cup


And im not wanting to start a flame war, but he anihilates your times.

He takes two seconds off you (minimum) just down the main straight, not taking into account any corners, on which he destroys you.


I really see no evidence that you could 'easily hold them off on the straights... and I do mean easily'. The clio cup car is clearly MUCH faster round snetterton.

J o n
07-05-2009, 13:48
never said I was quicker round Snetterton, but facts are facts, there was a Mk2 Ph2 Cup race car with Sadev 6 speed and totally stripped and it was slower on the straights... but then he wasn't getting the same momentum a race driver would out the corners. What you choose to believe is upto you, I really couldn't care less, I'm not in the least bit competative on a track... or in your case, off it ;)

Richardcard1974
07-05-2009, 14:22
never said I was quicker round Snetterton, but facts are facts, there was a Mk2 Ph2 Cup race car with Sadev 6 speed and totally stripped and it was slower on the straights... but then he wasn't getting the same momentum a race driver would out the corners. What you choose to believe is upto you, I really couldn't care less, I'm not in the least bit competative on a track... or in your case, off it ;)


So what you really mean is that your car is faster than a badly driven clio cup race car?

That i can believe.

And wasnt it 2live driving, in which case your competitiveness doesnt come in to it?

My clio is faster than a parked concorde by the way. :wink:

But lets not let things like facts get in the way of a good story.

J o n
07-05-2009, 15:00
If it makes you happy, yeah my badly driven Clio was quicker on the back straight than an equally badly driven Cup racer. That's Jon driving in the video, but no Cup race car coming past... remember Rob, we're having fun, we're not race drivers. You tend not to get race drivers in race cars at casual trackdays... :roll:

If you did trackdays and turned up at these events you'd be able to see yourself tbh. If you were less obnoxious someone may even give you a passenger ride... "those that cant preach"

Richardcard1974
07-05-2009, 15:12
If it makes you happy, yeah my badly driven Clio was quicker on the back straight than an equally badly driven Cup racer. That's Jon driving in the video, but no Cup race car coming past... remember Rob, we're having fun, we're not race drivers. You tend not to get race drivers in race cars at casual trackdays... :roll:

If you did trackdays and turned up at these events you'd be able to see yourself tbh. If you were less obnoxious someone may even give you a passenger ride... "those that cant preach"

Dont try to twist it,.


You lied by saying your car was easily faster than a cup race car when it clearly is not. The videos prove what you said was factually incorrect. Dont try to twist it back onto me in some way, admit you were wrong and we can move on.

Richardcard1974
07-05-2009, 15:14
Trouble is you like to have your cake and eat it. One minute your car is easily faster than a clio cup car, when this is proved wrong, suddenly its a road car for having fun, not going fast.


So which is it? You cant change your argument to suit the situation.

J o n
07-05-2009, 15:42
I said it was quicker down the back straight than the Mk2 Cup car, it was quicker on the day full stop, which I'm clearly saying is down to the driver. He never once went past us even if he could of according to you. So I'm not twisting anything, you're just picking isolated bits of what I have said and using it out of context to try and prove a point. As there is no video evidence of one passing you are basing whatever point you are trying to make on pure conjecture... I doubt you realise or understand any of this however as you will look to pick holes/fault wherever you can. Just like the charger, even though you have never seen, driven, been near of have the faintest idea about them you can find fault. You are jealous and bitter, if it's not built by Nick Hill or yourself them it's automatically rubbish.

... and for the hard of hearing, it was quicker than that particular cup racer and that's the only comparison I have to go by. Sadly I wont be able to compare again like that, as I dont have bodies... on the flip side, I dont need to, think it's fairly obvious lol

Richardcard1974
07-05-2009, 15:45
So excluding the time when you came up against some badly driven ones, will you admit that a clio cup race car is faster than a itb clio mk2 in a straight line on a race track?


Yes or no.

schakal
07-05-2009, 15:47
admit you were wrong and we can move on.


http://reallyrobins.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/hypocrite.jpg

:D

J o n
07-05-2009, 16:20
So excluding the time when you came up against some badly driven ones, will you admit that a clio cup race car is faster than a itb clio mk2 in a straight line on a race track?


Yes or no.

Why? That's my only experience of being on a track with one at the same time. They almost certainly are quicker round a track with a better driver, but my experience of one from a roll was that it wasn't catching... there's nothing scientific to prove either car would be faster once moving eitherway, not enough raw data to even base such an opinion on with any remote certainty is there? ;)

Would be interesting to see from a roll what if any difference there would be, but that's never going to happen as A) I dont have bodies and B) they dont let you line up and drag race on tracks. Dont care either way, I have boost now innit

MAXIBOY
07-05-2009, 16:56
admit you were wrong and we can move on.


http://reallyrobins.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/hypocrite.jpg

:D

very true.. :D

2 live
07-05-2009, 17:47
So excluding the time when you came up against some badly driven ones, will you admit that a clio cup race car is faster than a itb clio mk2 in a straight line on a race track?


Yes or no.



lol.....nob...........the clio in question was an ex clio cup car. lhd, sadev, multipoint cage, etc etc etc.

seeing as tho snetterton is quite a high speed circuit, the bodied engine was better suited. sure he was gaining through the bendy bits, as was the cooper s cu p car thing.....but down the straights, the advantage they had thru said twisty bits was pulled back. now im not saying the cars a race car, far from it, its a tuned road car, but it pulled quite a gap up the straights.


there is no video evidence of this as the cam was always pointing forwards.

i look forward to the day i see a vid of you driving any of your cars, be it in competition, trackday, or normal. id love to see you giving your rally car a good thrashing. thats what theyre built for after all. but its never goin to happen is it. cos a) youl never finish it, and b) your too scared to drive them.

when you can back up your claims with experience or proof, come back. til then shut the fuk up

Richardcard1974
07-05-2009, 19:34
No. A clio cup race car is faster round any UK circuit than even your supercharged road going clio.

Arguing against this just makes you look like you belong on cliosport.

Richardcard1974
07-05-2009, 19:36
Foir those that missed the speed differential.

Road going clio of throttle bodies:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiE5pJLd2-M&feature=channel_page

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ji9B8gXPV8&feature=channel_page

And here is Niki Laniks 2006 MK2 clio cup race car:

http://video.google.co.uk/videosearch?q=sneterton+clio+cup&hl=en&emb=0&aq=f#hl=en&emb=0&aq=f&q=snetterton+clio+cup

Snetterton.

J o n
07-05-2009, 19:45
Point out on Jon's vid where he passes us if you would please :roll:

Again, you seem to ignore the fact he wasn't a race driver and carrying 20,30,40mph more through the corners. Boooooooring... :roll:

Richardcard1974
07-05-2009, 19:46
So excluding the time when you came up against some badly driven ones, will you admit that a clio cup race car is faster than a itb clio mk2 in a straight line on a race track?


Yes or no.



lol.....nob...........the clio in question was an ex clio cup car. lhd, sadev, multipoint cage, etc etc etc.

seeing as tho snetterton is quite a high speed circuit, the bodied engine was better suited. sure he was gaining through the bendy bits, as was the cooper s cu p car thing.....but down the straights, the advantage they had thru said twisty bits was pulled back. now im not saying the cars a race car, far from it, its a tuned road car, but it pulled quite a gap up the straights.


there is no video evidence of this as the cam was always pointing forwards.

i look forward to the day i see a vid of you driving any of your cars, be it in competition, trackday, or normal. id love to see you giving your rally car a good thrashing. thats what theyre built for after all. but its never goin to happen is it. cos a) youl never finish it, and b) your too scared to drive them.

when you can back up your claims with experience or proof, come back. til then shut the f*k up

No need to get agressive, this is a logical discussion, not a slagging match, lets keep it about cars please.

J o n
07-05-2009, 19:52
No. A clio cup race car is faster round any UK circuit than even your supercharged road going clio.

Arguing against this just makes you look like you belong on cliosport.

Thats nice, on any UK road/motorway mine is considerably quicker... and your point is?

Also save the righteous indignation, you have gone out of your way to take this thread off topic and wind people up.

Evogone
07-05-2009, 19:58
So excluding the time when you came up against some badly driven ones, will you admit that a clio cup race car is faster than a itb clio mk2 in a straight line on a race track?


Yes or no.



lol.....nob...........the clio in question was an ex clio cup car. lhd, sadev, multipoint cage, etc etc etc.

seeing as tho snetterton is quite a high speed circuit, the bodied engine was better suited. sure he was gaining through the bendy bits, as was the cooper s cu p car thing.....but down the straights, the advantage they had thru said twisty bits was pulled back. now im not saying the cars a race car, far from it, its a tuned road car, but it pulled quite a gap up the straights.


there is no video evidence of this as the cam was always pointing forwards.

i look forward to the day i see a vid of you driving any of your cars, be it in competition, trackday, or normal. id love to see you giving your rally car a good thrashing. thats what theyre built for after all. but its never goin to happen is it. cos a) youl never finish it, and b) your too scared to drive them.

when you can back up your claims with experience or proof, come back. til then shut the f*k up

No need to get agressive, this is a logical discussion, not a slagging match, lets keep it about cars please.

What do you expect SpongeNob......your being a dick.

Richardcard1974
07-05-2009, 19:59
Jon. You are getting defensive like i started this argument. If you dont like people shooting you down dont post statements you cant substantiate.

You stated that your throttle bodies clio was EASILY able to keep a clio cup race car behind you. You also made a statement about them having no straight line speed due to perhaps the gearing.


I posted a video to prove you wrong.


Just accept yopu are wrong, They are quicker on corners and in a straight line.

This is not opinion, but fact. All the times from the clio cup races are available online.

2 live
07-05-2009, 20:12
nob........the video comparison is pointless.......2 diff perspectives....1 in car......1 from pit wall.

but i will say this..at the far ends of the straights we were pulling around 130-135.....might not look like it in the vids.....but listen to the revs.....dont know wot the cup car was geared for...and dont know if both cup cars were geared the same.


u havent shot anybody down ......u have been proved wrong again, you have taken this thread off topic......again.......u constantly try to bully ppl into thinking your way.

nob......accept the FACT that during those vids there was a clio cup car behind us......losing ground down the straights, gaining it on the corners. with a ktec iirc cooper s cup car behind him. as for speeds.....check out how easily we went past the civic type r, and the mr2 and the beemer.

Evogone
07-05-2009, 20:18
Jon. You are getting defensive like i started this argument. If you dont like people shooting you down dont post statements you cant substantiate.

You stated that your throttle bodies clio was EASILY able to keep a clio cup race car behind you. You also made a statement about them having no straight line speed due to perhaps the gearing.


I posted a video to prove you wrong.


Just accept yopu are wrong, They are quicker on corners and in a straight line.

This is not opinion, but fact. All the times from the clio cup races are available online.

John was refering to straight line speed and his car is probabley quicker...Cup ars are only 180hp. It will be quicker off the line due to the diff and sequential but on the move then its less an advantage. Corners then a Cup car will be quicker for sure.

Next thing is tyres the difference in slick and road tyres is about 5 seconds a lap at most places.

Bottom line is that driver is the biggest factor, which you can not rank or compare.

Anyhow go do the washing up or you wont get your pocket money this week.

J o n
07-05-2009, 20:23
Jon. You are getting defensive like i started this argument. If you dont like people shooting you down dont post statements you cant substantiate.

You stated that your throttle bodies clio was EASILY able to keep a clio cup race car behind you. You also made a statement about them having no straight line speed due to perhaps the gearing.


I posted a video to prove you wrong.


Just accept yopu are wrong, They are quicker on corners and in a straight line.

This is not opinion, but fact. All the times from the clio cup races are available online.

Quick recap, I said we were quicker on the straights with similar corner exit speeds. There's no proof either way other than my word and Jon's and the chap afterwards who drove the car... and then spoke to Andy about buying ITB's for it ;)

Your video was irrelevant, the car was a race driver who was cornering much quicker, the car on the day wasn't. Again, it was just an average driver having fun.

So, if you want to compare a Rally car to mine, ie YOUR RALLY CAR, then lets see shall we?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw0q3sIed5c

yup, based on a useless driver driving it, and using Rob's logic and point of debate my car is faster than a rally car. Jean Ragnotti eat your heart out... I'm coming for you

Richardcard1974
07-05-2009, 20:26
u havent shot anybody down ......u have been proved wrong again, you have taken this thread off topic......again.......u constantly try to bully ppl into thinking your way.

nob......

No it is you who are name calling, i am discusing cars as we are on a car forum. Please keep it civil with no personal insults like i am attempting to do, as asked by the mods.

If you would like to call me knob please do it via pm, and keep this about cars.

eternalife
07-05-2009, 20:26
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw0q3sIed5c



Is that really stromba's 0020 rally williams :shock:

eternalife
07-05-2009, 20:30
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw0q3sIed5c



Is that really Robert Barrington's 0020 rally williams :shock: with him testing it on road?

Car looks like its battling away from the driver - oh dear oh dear :roll:

2 live
07-05-2009, 20:31
u havent shot anybody down ......u have been proved wrong again, you have taken this thread off topic......again.......u constantly try to bully ppl into thinking your way.

nob......

No it is you who are name calling, i am discusing cars as we are on a car forum. Please keep it civil with no personal insults like i am attempting to do, as asked by the mods.

If you would like to call me knob please do it via pm, and keep this about cars.


sorry.......just evry time i see/hear ur name or any of ur aliases.......my keyboard just writes nob........

stan
07-05-2009, 20:32
Why so shocked lol??

Evogone
07-05-2009, 20:33
Jon. You are getting defensive like i started this argument. If you dont like people shooting you down dont post statements you cant substantiate.

You stated that your throttle bodies clio was EASILY able to keep a clio cup race car behind you. You also made a statement about them having no straight line speed due to perhaps the gearing.


I posted a video to prove you wrong.


Just accept yopu are wrong, They are quicker on corners and in a straight line.

This is not opinion, but fact. All the times from the clio cup races are available online.

Quick recap, I said we were quicker on the straights with similar corner exit speeds. There's no proof either way other than my word and Jon's and the chap afterwards who drove the car... and then spoke to Andy about buying ITB's for it ;)

Your video was irrelevant, the car was a race driver who was cornering much quicker, the car on the day wasn't. Again, it was just an average driver having fun.

So, if you want to compare a Rally car to mine, ie YOUR RALLY CAR, then lets see shall we?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw0q3sIed5c

yup, based on a useless driver driving it, and using Rob's logic and point of debate my car is faster than a rally car. Jean Ragnotti eat your heart out... I'm coming for you

Now thats funny....!!

Personnally i think it understeers badly and doesnt seem that quick...ROFL..! :lol: :lol: :lol:

J o n
07-05-2009, 20:34
indeed it is 0020 Stromba's rally stage group A super special Mohammed I'm ard Bruce Lee edition Williams

what i find frustrating with you Rob is the constant need to find fault and pick at others efforts. You dont put anything of your own up but are quick to point, judge and criticise other people and their hard work and efforts.

2 live
07-05-2009, 20:38
lmao..nearly lost it the beginning.


now my sons gunna b well impressed...his peewee 50 is quicker than a williams rally car........grrrrrr

Richardcard1974
07-05-2009, 20:40
NO. I posted video evidence to back up my point of view on a discussion. It is others on this thread who have degraded the topic and i will NOT be lowered to theis level.

Post up a reply that is relevant and i will answer, all other posts will be ignored.

Alll non relevant insults please refere to my pm box.


As requested by Northy.

2 live
07-05-2009, 20:44
the video backs up nothing tho...........so again u still have yet to prove your point......when you can..........post again....til then......shhhhhhhhhh

schakal
07-05-2009, 20:49
lmfao :lol: :lol: :lol:

rob , i am not being funny or anything now .
you my friend are and absolute fooking legend for being able to
wind this many people up without one of them realising it


:pop: :pop:

J o n
07-05-2009, 21:01
Shakal, if you dont think we know how Rob works you've not paid much attention. He might be funny to you, however as you seeminly only log on for the freak show aspect you wont really appreciate how irritating it is when every thread is turned negative with irrelevant babble.

That's my personal take on it.

2 live
07-05-2009, 21:03
lmao.........u think we dont know how he likes to wind ppl up.


a legend???????? lmao........ :roll:


if he stayed on topic, didnt chat shit he knows nothing about....and was as amiable onhere as he is in person........then yeah...hed b ok.

Richardcard1974
07-05-2009, 21:07
OK guys lets get back on topic and keep it civil please. Might also be worth moving this to performance tuning mods as its a performance related question.

Headwork and performance gains is the issue for discussion.

2 live
07-05-2009, 21:10
remembered that now have u........lose rthe argument n change tack.......not like u at all nob.

schakal
07-05-2009, 21:14
Shakal, if you dont think we know how Rob works you've not paid much attention. He might be funny to you, however as you seeminly only log on for the freak show aspect you wont really appreciate how irritating it is when every thread is turned negative with irrelevant babble.

That's my personal take on it.

dude if you actually read my post properly you would have realised
i am pointing the fact he is playing with the lot of you and you are simply
buying it and feeding him with 3 mile long responses .
dont feed him and see what happens :)
ohh yes i find this particularly funny ,sue me !!! :D

you do find it irritating cause you take it serious when he says
your car is slow etc . me ?? i dont care in all honesty .

Richardcard1974
07-05-2009, 21:15
remembered that now have u........lose rthe argument n change tack.......not like u at all nob.

Hey come on take it easy big guy, plenty of space for everyone in this thread.

2 live
07-05-2009, 21:16
with those bitch tits??

Richardcard1974
07-05-2009, 21:20
with those bitch tits??

Post one of your old vids we know you have on your hard drive from early cliosport days. Go on you know you want to. Clear the air with some nostalgia.

Jamie.
07-05-2009, 21:26
No name calling. At all. Awquard questions yes. No insults.

2 live
07-05-2009, 21:42
awkward questions........dont get me started lol

2 live
07-05-2009, 21:45
and wot do u class as an insult?

Justin..
07-05-2009, 21:45
omg the forum is in turmoil :lol:

Smudger
07-05-2009, 21:53
all this has kept me entertained for days lol.

sideways danny
08-05-2009, 18:16
No. A clio cup race car is faster round any UK circuit than even your supercharged road going clio.

Arguing against this just makes you look like you belong on cliosport.

I passed that cup car several times in the GDI demo car on that same trackday. Jons supercharged car is MUCH faster. I also passed the cup car in Jons car, once, down the back straight. I think 2live was in the passenger seat actually

Richardcard1974
08-05-2009, 18:41
No. A clio cup race car is faster round any UK circuit than even your supercharged road going clio.

Arguing against this just makes you look like you belong on cliosport.

I passed that cup car several times in the GDI demo car on that same trackday. Jons supercharged car is MUCH faster. I also passed the cup car in Jons car, once, down the back straight. I think 2live was in the passenger seat actually

Stop talking. Start proving it. Or you will lose all credibility.

eternalife
08-05-2009, 19:18
No. A clio cup race car is faster round any UK circuit than even your supercharged road going clio.

Arguing against this just makes you look like you belong on cliosport.

I passed that cup car several times in the GDI demo car on that same trackday. Jons supercharged car is MUCH faster. I also passed the cup car in Jons car, once, down the back straight. I think 2live was in the passenger seat actually

Three people verifying sounds decent enough to me...8)

Just rememeber, there is no point arguing with an idiot, they will only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience :lol:

Richardcard1974
08-05-2009, 19:22
No. A clio cup race car is faster round any UK circuit than even your supercharged road going clio.

Arguing against this just makes you look like you belong on cliosport.

I passed that cup car several times in the GDI demo car on that same trackday. Jons supercharged car is MUCH faster. I also passed the cup car in Jons car, once, down the back straight. I think 2live was in the passenger seat actually

Three people verifying sounds decent enough to me...8)

Just rememeber, there is no point arguing with an idiot, they will only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience :lol:

Please keep on topic. All insults via PM please. Post reported to moderators.

sideways danny
08-05-2009, 19:27
No. A clio cup race car is faster round any UK circuit than even your supercharged road going clio.

Arguing against this just makes you look like you belong on cliosport.

I passed that cup car several times in the GDI demo car on that same trackday. Jons supercharged car is MUCH faster. I also passed the cup car in Jons car, once, down the back straight. I think 2live was in the passenger seat actually

Stop talking. Start proving it. Or you will lose all credibility.

PMSL. lose cred with who? We're at plenty of trackdays this year, and FCS. feel free to turn up.

Richardcard1974
08-05-2009, 19:35
No. A clio cup race car is faster round any UK circuit than even your supercharged road going clio.

Arguing against this just makes you look like you belong on cliosport.

I passed that cup car several times in the GDI demo car on that same trackday. Jons supercharged car is MUCH faster. I also passed the cup car in Jons car, once, down the back straight. I think 2live was in the passenger seat actually

Stop talking. Start proving it. Or you will lose all credibility.

PMSL. lose cred with who? We're at plenty of trackdays this year, and FCS. feel free to turn up.

Has Jons car actually been on track yet? If not saying its faster than a cup crace car is a bold statement. And one that is a little perplexing.

Now i know you have a vested interest in the matter and stand to gain finanically from any kits you sell.

So i take this into account whenever discussing this with you.

Turkeys dont vote for Christmas.

How much do you stand to make each time you sell one of these kits?

Supercharger - profit - fast
Cup racer - no profit - slow

Now how does this work?

MAXIBOY
08-05-2009, 19:41
yeah..

all a little beyond you.....

:lol:

sideways danny
08-05-2009, 19:42
sigh.

Jons car was on track with ITBs in that video. and I passed an ex-cup racer in it.

I get paid a salary. but thanks for your concern over my financal well-being. I feel warm inside

eternalife
08-05-2009, 19:45
On topic, Headwork....










































http://www.equinox3d.com/screenshots/Head1.jpg

stan
08-05-2009, 19:47
Jav, I want an FEA analyis of the lip area whilst your model is mouthing "I like turtles".

Justin..
08-05-2009, 19:52
lmfao @ eternal life

Justin..
08-05-2009, 19:52
oops ****ed up there :oops:

Richardcard1974
08-05-2009, 20:17
sigh.

Jons car was on track with ITBs in that video. and I passed an ex-cup racer in it.

I get paid a salary. but thanks for your concern over my financal well-being. I feel warm inside

So it hasnt even been on track since the supercharger was put on and already you are comparing it to various cars with no real evidence? There is a word for this:

Fantasy.

Ill post it again if you missed it:

Clio Cup race car lapping Snetterton in 1 min 20 seconds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORph6EwT0-k

Jons throttle body car lapping Snetterton with 2 live driving in 1 min 30 seconds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ji9B8gXPV8&feature=channel_page

That's 10 seconds slower.


In just 6 laps, the throttle body clio road car would be a whole minute behind.

MAXIBOY
08-05-2009, 20:19
you haven't seen the graphs then... :D

Richardcard1974
08-05-2009, 20:24
you haven't seen the graphs then... :D

Paper is meaningless on track. All that counts in the time.

MAXIBOY
08-05-2009, 20:26
not if its not a track car but a road toy...you fail to grasp this fact..

its not a track car..not a rally car..its a tuned road toy..

Richardcard1974
08-05-2009, 20:28
As said before its a road car when something is faster than it, but a track car that overtakes clio cup racers wghen it suits.

Just a load of excuses is all im seeing.

Tommo
08-05-2009, 20:51
How fast was that beemer.... :shock:

2 live
09-05-2009, 03:11
sigh.

Jons car was on track with ITBs in that video. and I passed an ex-cup racer in it.

I get paid a salary. but thanks for your concern over my financal well-being. I feel warm inside

So it hasnt even been on track since the supercharger was put on and already you are comparing it to various cars with no real evidence? There is a word for this:

Fantasy.

Ill post it again if you missed it:

Clio Cup race car lapping Snetterton in 1 min 20 seconds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORph6EwT0-k

Jons throttle body car lapping Snetterton with 2 live driving in 1 min 30 seconds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ji9B8gXPV8&feature=channel_page

That's 10 seconds slower.


In just 6 laps, the throttle body clio road car would be a whole minute behind.


im impressed tbh. with only coils and bodies, and semi slicks, with full interior, bootful of shit, a passenger, and a non race driver on road tyres to be only 10 secs a lap slower than a fully spec'd race car and race driver of same marquee..........very impressive if u ask me.

now if only i could get 10 secs a stage time off ragnottis times in teh williams......game on.


i congratulate myself......i thank u.

Richardcard1974
09-05-2009, 10:35
sigh.

Jons car was on track with ITBs in that video. and I passed an ex-cup racer in it.

I get paid a salary. but thanks for your concern over my financal well-being. I feel warm inside

So it hasnt even been on track since the supercharger was put on and already you are comparing it to various cars with no real evidence? There is a word for this:

Fantasy.

Ill post it again if you missed it:

Clio Cup race car lapping Snetterton in 1 min 20 seconds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORph6EwT0-k

Jons throttle body car lapping Snetterton with 2 live driving in 1 min 30 seconds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ji9B8gXPV8&feature=channel_page

That's 10 seconds slower.


In just 6 laps, the throttle body clio road car would be a whole minute behind.


im impressed tbh. with only coils and bodies, and semi slicks, with full interior, bootful of s**t, a passenger, and a non race driver on road tyres to be only 10 secs a lap slower than a fully spec'd race car and race driver of same marquee..........very impressive if u ask me.

now if only i could get 10 secs a stage time off ragnottis times in teh williams......game on.


i congratulate myself......i thank u.

More contradictions and lies?

J o n
09-05-2009, 13:29
semi slicks are road legal Bobert.

it's faster than a rally car on the evidence we have seen so far :lol:

2 live
09-05-2009, 14:33
sigh.

Jons car was on track with ITBs in that video. and I passed an ex-cup racer in it.

I get paid a salary. but thanks for your concern over my financal well-being. I feel warm inside

So it hasnt even been on track since the supercharger was put on and already you are comparing it to various cars with no real evidence? There is a word for this:

Fantasy.

Ill post it again if you missed it:

Clio Cup race car lapping Snetterton in 1 min 20 seconds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORph6EwT0-k

Jons throttle body car lapping Snetterton with 2 live driving in 1 min 30 seconds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ji9B8gXPV8&feature=channel_page

That's 10 seconds slower.


In just 6 laps, the throttle body clio road car would be a whole minute behind.


im impressed tbh. with only coils and bodies, and semi slicks, with full interior, bootful of s**t, a passenger, and a non race driver on road tyres to be only 10 secs a lap slower than a fully spec'd race car and race driver of same marquee..........very impressive if u ask me.

now if only i could get 10 secs a stage time off ragnottis times in teh williams......game on.


i congratulate myself......i thank u.

More contradictions and lies?


where......and where??


semi slicks....road legal = road tyres.

schakal
09-05-2009, 14:35
page 5 :D

schakal
09-05-2009, 14:36
page 5 :D

:roll:

Justin..
09-05-2009, 15:20
lol :spam:

Evogone
09-05-2009, 15:29
semi slicks are road legal Bobert.

it's faster than a rally car on the evidence we have seen so far :lol:

Dont be generalising rallycars :wink:

schakal
09-05-2009, 15:45
lol :spam:


:roll:

J o n
09-05-2009, 15:48
thought I would try my hand at "Barrington logic" :lol:

still, well impressed how close to cup race car times Jon is on his first drive of my car there, first time at the track. 10bhp up on a Cup racer, 200kg's + up on it, no cage, no seam welded shell, road legal tyres and standard non sequential box :D Nicely done 9 lives :lol:

Richardcard1974
09-05-2009, 15:58
So its road tyres when you get beaten and then they morph into semi slicks when it suits you.

Im getting the hang of this now. Its orwellian doublespeak

My car has an MOT and is road legal - when i lose
My car has an MSA log book and is a rally car - when i win

Is that it?

2 live
09-05-2009, 16:10
lmao..it will need to be road legal to get between the stages......


lets see if the full slicks of the cup car pass an mot huh?


the semi slicks are an advantage over 'normal' road tyres yes, but they are still a disadvantage when compared to full on racing slicks.....when on a race track.


the semi slicks are road tyres...they dont morph into anything.

im quite impressed i was only 10 secs slower than the guy tbh. think if i spent a few more hours in the car, at that track id be knocking quite a chunk outta that too....didnt wanna go overboard on my first drive of the car or track ;)

J o n
09-05-2009, 16:16
LOL, no far from it Rob. Ever since you came back (like a bad case of herpes) you have had to try and twist things to provoke a rise.

You seem to think everything is a competition, what you don't seem able to grasp is I don't. I dont claim to be a great driver, the guy in the cup was similarly just there to have fun and had Cup race car. You brought lap times into it yet there was never a mention of being able to lap quicker than a cup race car with race driver was there? (again, you will ignore this point making yours all the more irrelevant and ridiculous)

As you have now brought up lap times and the 10 second difference it makes me all the more impressed with a car with only ITB's and an exhaust and some coilovers (albeit it exceptionally expensive and good ones :P)

You have a fixation with my cars and vids, do you want Omex's number?

Richardcard1974
09-05-2009, 18:37
Lets keep it on topic hey? Its about cars not personality. Insults via pm. Shoot me down if you like on facts and cars, but no personal stuff, i thought we agreed this via pm?

Richardcard1974
09-05-2009, 18:50
........ the 10 second difference it makes me all the more impressed with a car with only ITB's and an exhaust and some coilovers (albeit it exceptionally expensive and good ones :P)



So how much were the coilovers then? As you have brought up how 'expensive and good' they are we can talk about these now.

Something like reiger and you wont get much change from 5k. Proflex you wont get much change from 4k.

The custom dynamics ones off the Smogsport rally car were 3.5k.

This is proper 'expensive' and 'good' suspension.

I suspect yours are a little cheaper than this?

schakal
09-05-2009, 20:14
lets keep it on topic people !!!
page 5 yet ?? :P :P

MAXIBOY
09-05-2009, 21:38
soon..

rob you missed out ohlins too..i grand a corner..

anything you can think of thats overkill for a road car..

J o n
09-05-2009, 21:43
........ the 10 second difference it makes me all the more impressed with a car with only ITB's and an exhaust and some coilovers (albeit it exceptionally expensive and good ones :P)



So how much were the coilovers then? As you have brought up how 'expensive and good' they are we can talk about these now.

Something like reiger and you wont get much change from 5k. Proflex you wont get much change from 4k.

The custom dynamics ones off the Smogsport rally car were 3.5k.

This is proper 'expensive' and 'good' suspension.

I suspect yours are a little cheaper than this?

I think you should keep guessing, this is fun :lol:

cliorod
10-05-2009, 01:44
The custom dynamics ones off the Smogsport rally car were 3.5k.


I bought these of Mick before he sold the car :lol: :lol: :lol: £500 plus a set of Bilsteins to replace them on his car :wink: :wink: :wink: .
Currently having new piston /tubes made /and being overhauled with new seals etc etc ~~~ the old ones were slightly bent. :cry: :cry:

I will post pictures as soon as as I get them back :lol: :lol:

Richardcard1974
10-05-2009, 12:26
The custom dynamics ones off the Smogsport rally car were 3.5k.


I bought these of Mick before he sold the car :lol: :lol: :lol: £500 plus a set of Bilsteins to replace them on his car :wink: :wink: :wink: .
Currently having new piston /tubes made /and being overhauled with new seals etc etc ~~~ the old ones were slightly bent. :cry: :cry:

I will post pictures as soon as as I get them back :lol: :lol:

500 is a bargain. Nice bits of kit these. Mind you the bilsteins are nice too. If you know of anyone with any spare bilstein insterts, or where to get them new i need some spares.

Richardcard1974
10-05-2009, 12:28
........ the 10 second difference it makes me all the more impressed with a car with only ITB's and an exhaust and some coilovers (albeit it exceptionally expensive and good ones :P)



So how much were the coilovers then? As you have brought up how 'expensive and good' they are we can talk about these now.

Something like reiger and you wont get much change from 5k. Proflex you wont get much change from 4k.

The custom dynamics ones off the Smogsport rally car were 3.5k.

This is proper 'expensive' and 'good' suspension.

I suspect yours are a little cheaper than this?

I think you should keep guessing, this is fun :lol:

Just post up and we can assess factually how good they are.

J o n
10-05-2009, 12:54
........ the 10 second difference it makes me all the more impressed with a car with only ITB's and an exhaust and some coilovers (albeit it exceptionally expensive and good ones :P)



So how much were the coilovers then? As you have brought up how 'expensive and good' they are we can talk about these now.

Something like reiger and you wont get much change from 5k. Proflex you wont get much change from 4k.

The custom dynamics ones off the Smogsport rally car were 3.5k.

This is proper 'expensive' and 'good' suspension.

I suspect yours are a little cheaper than this?

I think you should keep guessing, this is fun :lol:

Just post up and we can assess factually how good they are.

no you cant :lol:

Richardcard1974
10-05-2009, 12:56
My bet is leda

MAXIBOY
10-05-2009, 14:08
nothing wrong with leda kit...

sideways danny
10-05-2009, 14:30
My bet is leda

how much?

Richardcard1974
10-05-2009, 15:21
Leda are rubbish. The damper isnt even inverted.

Richardcard1974
10-05-2009, 15:22
My bet is leda

how much?

I tell you what, instead of playing games why not just say what dampers they are. Then we can get on with the discussion and stop beating around the bush.

Mine are Renault Bilstein group N. Flame away.

Evogone
10-05-2009, 16:08
My bet is leda

how much?

I tell you what, instead of playing games why not just say what dampers they are. Then we can get on with the discussion and stop beating around the bush.

Mine are Renault Bilstein group N. Flame away.

Group N you reference are just B6s, the proper non coilover tarmac ones are the Cup versions as listed in the Bilstein catalogue. Proper GP N coilovers are not listed for the Uk but you can get them :wink:

Evogone
10-05-2009, 16:10
nothing wrong with leda kit...

Which are exactly the same as GAZ Gold and they are used by a lot of circuit racers.

AVO monotube are suposed to be good.

Richardcard1974
10-05-2009, 16:15
My bet is leda

how much?

I tell you what, instead of playing games why not just say what dampers they are. Then we can get on with the discussion and stop beating around the bush.

Mine are Renault Bilstein group N. Flame away.

Group N you reference are just B6s, the proper non coilover tarmac ones are the Cup versions as listed in the Bilstein catalogue. Proper GP N coilovers are not listed for the Uk but you can get them :wink:


This post highlights what rubbish you talk. The cup cars ran COILOVERS. The standard williams suspension are COILOVERS. The Bilstein B6's are COILOVERS.

Coilover is a shortened way of saying 'McPherson Coil over the damper'. Any suspension where the coil (ie the spring) goes OVER the damper is a COILOVER.

'non coilover' suspension, HAHA, where does the coil go then? Leaf springs? :lol:

And yes mine are the proper Group N coilovers with adjustable platform and inverted dampers. Does that hurt me saying that? After you had hoped they were the B6's?

Bless.

www.learnaboutsuspensionfornoobs.com <<<try that site

Evogone
10-05-2009, 16:25
My bet is leda

how much?

I tell you what, instead of playing games why not just say what dampers they are. Then we can get on with the discussion and stop beating around the bush.

Mine are Renault Bilstein group N. Flame away.

Group N you reference are just B6s, the proper non coilover tarmac ones are the Cup versions as listed in the Bilstein catalogue. Proper GP N coilovers are not listed for the Uk but you can get them :wink:


This post highlights what rubbish you talk. The cup cars ran COILOVERS. The standard williams suspension are COILOVERS. The Bilstein B6's are COILOVERS.

Coilover is a shortened way of saying 'McPherson Coil over the damper'. Any suspension where the coil (ie the spring) goes OVER the damper is a COILOVER.

'non coilover' suspension, HAHA, where does the coil go then? Leaf springs? :lol:

And yes mine are the proper Group N coilovers with adjustable platform and inverted dampers. Does that hurt me saying that? After you had hoped they were the B6's?

Bless.

www.learnaboutsuspensionfornoobs.com <<<try that site

LOL SpongeNob

I tried the site but it redirected me to F7Power......said it needs a 50p in the server.

Richardcard1974
10-05-2009, 16:34
Why do you have to resort to personal insults again?

Probably because the conversation about cars is too far above your level?

Evogone
10-05-2009, 16:43
Why do you have to resort to personal insults again?

Probably because the conversation about cars is too far above your level?

Its not an insult thats your name SpongeNob.....

Regards cars your supposed to drive them arnt you...why dont you drive yours.. :wink:

Well apart from the little clip earlier in the thread which was er rather entertaining..!

Richardcard1974
10-05-2009, 16:45
Why do you have to resort to personal insults again?

Probably because the conversation about cars is too far above your level?

Its not an insult thats your name SpongeNob.....

Regards cars your supposed to drive them arnt you...why dont you drive yours.. :wink:

Well apart from the little clip earlier in the thread which was er rather entertaining..!

I have reported your posts to moderators.

Back on topic.

2 live
10-05-2009, 20:14
miss miss........jonnys flicking bogeys at me miss.

Richardcard1974
10-05-2009, 20:53
miss miss........jonnys flicking bogeys at me miss.

Please stay on topic.

2 live
10-05-2009, 21:07
and which topic would that be??? youv changed tack that many times....we still on headwork??? or we on suspension??

Richardcard1974
10-05-2009, 21:12
Cars.

How are yours going?

Evogone
10-05-2009, 21:14
miss miss........jonnys flicking bogeys at me miss.

Please stay on topic.

pot kettle and black spring to mind....

Oh yes, 190 hp is possible with headwork and cams.. :D

Richardcard1974
10-05-2009, 21:18
Go for it then stevey. Get the credit card out and get down to APD.

Evogone
10-05-2009, 21:27
Go for it then stevey. Get the credit card out and get down to APD.

Already stated i would just got ITBs for next stage of power...but 190hp is possible on std TB SpongeNob.

Richardcard1974
10-05-2009, 21:31
We all know that, the Group A cars ran 230 BHP without itbs.


Keep up man.

Evogone
10-05-2009, 21:38
We all know that, the Group A cars ran 230 BHP without itbs.


Keep up man.

You really do make me laugh...... :lol:

MAXIBOY
10-05-2009, 21:38
Leda are rubbish. The damper isnt even inverted.

**** me you talk some rubbish..are all leda rubbish..

why would they have to be inverted to be any good..

Richardcard1974
10-05-2009, 21:59
On a standard OEM renault damper units the damper is non-inverted. Because of this the spring is offset. The offset of the spring means that the damper is not put under undue stress because the offset spring geometry profides additional stress resistance to the suspension movement (sheer forces acting on the damper from the suspension travel).

On most after market coilovers the spring is not offset. This adds a lot of stress (sheer stress) to the damper due to the suspension travel not being directly up down in direction, but it is angled. To prevent damage to the damper under extreme loading, good manufacturers will invert the damper such that the body of the damper is housed as low as possible in the strut.

Some damper manufacturers on some of their products both invert the damper and offset the spring to add extra strength to the unit.

Leda neither invert the damper or offset the spring and so IMO the damper is fundamentally flawed as a unit for a rally or competition car.

Richardcard1974
10-05-2009, 22:00
Here endeth the lesson :wink:

MAXIBOY
10-05-2009, 22:08
again with a rally car...

these are road cars..inverting the damper causes other issues..

While normally an inverted design is used to save unsprung weight, there may be an increase in overall weight. (The shell's weight is compensated for by a narrower damper shaft internally which has its design advantages.) However, the larger surface area of the shell adds friction, which is undesirable..

also how many of the works built clio's run inverted dampers..none..

how many run offset springs.. none..neither ohlins proflex or bilsteins on this model so can't see it being an issue..as they all run thicker strut tubes

now you know better than renault and their three chosen suspension suppliers...

come off it rob..

Richardcard1974
10-05-2009, 22:54
again with a rally car...

these are road cars..inverting the damper causes other issues..

While normally an inverted design is used to save unsprung weight, there may be an increase in overall weight. (The shell's weight is compensated for by a narrower damper shaft internally which has its design advantages.) However, the larger surface area of the shell adds friction, which is undesirable..

also how many of the works built clio's run inverted dampers..none..

how many run offset springs.. none..neither ohlins proflex or bilsteins on this model so can't see it being an issue..as they all run thicker strut tubes

now you know better than renault and their three chosen suspension suppliers...

come off it rob..

Cut and pasted from this thread:

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/gd-suspension-handling-stiffening/123318-question-inverted-vs-standard-shocks.html

Busted.

Richardcard1974
10-05-2009, 22:56
again with a rally car...

these are road cars..inverting the damper causes other issues..

While normally an inverted design is used to save unsprung weight, there may be an increase in overall weight. (The shell's weight is compensated for by a narrower damper shaft internally which has its design advantages.) However, the larger surface area of the shell adds friction, which is undesirable..

also how many of the works built clio's run inverted dampers..none..

how many run offset springs.. none..neither ohlins proflex or bilsteins on this model so can't see it being an issue..as they all run thicker strut tubes

now you know better than renault and their three chosen suspension suppliers...

come off it rob..

You are wrong, the works renault rally cars ran Bilsteins and they use INVERTED DAMPERS

MAXIBOY
10-05-2009, 22:59
what do you mean busted..its correct..where was yours cut and pasted from as you have no mechanical experience..

i have more knowledge than you on this subject ...

i have a degree in this subject..

does writing busted in big letters make you feel superior in your little world..

answer the other points mate..how come they have never been fitted to a clio by renault or any of the major suspension manufacturers they used..

well....answer the questions you pose for a change.. :lol:

1995clio16v
10-05-2009, 23:00
My bet is leda

how much?

LOL SpongeNob

I tried the site but it redirected me to F7Power......said it needs a 50p in the server.

LMFAO!!!

:D

Richardcard1974
10-05-2009, 23:01
Mate you cut and pasted someone elses thread to make it look like you knew what you were talking about.

Pretty sad if you ask me.

Back on topic, you are also wrong about the works cars, Check your guides. All of them ran inverted dampers. I have already explained why they did.


Do you know what cognitive dissonance means?

MAXIBOY
10-05-2009, 23:01
again with a rally car...

these are road cars..inverting the damper causes other issues..

While normally an inverted design is used to save unsprung weight, there may be an increase in overall weight. (The shell's weight is compensated for by a narrower damper shaft internally which has its design advantages.) However, the larger surface area of the shell adds friction, which is undesirable..

also how many of the works built clio's run inverted dampers..none..

how many run offset springs.. none..neither ohlins proflex or bilsteins on this model so can't see it being an issue..as they all run thicker strut tubes

now you know better than renault and their three chosen suspension suppliers...

come off it rob..

You are wrong, the works renault rally cars ran Bilsteins and they use INVERTED DAMPERS

pics or links..not listed in any thing i have ever found..proflex are ohlins didn't..

Richardcard1974
10-05-2009, 23:04
what do you mean busted..its correct..where was yours cut and pasted from as you have no mechanical experience..

i have more knowledge than you on this subject ...

i have a degree in this subject..

does writing busted in big letters make you feel superior in your little world..

answer the other points mate..how come they have never been fitted to a clio by renault or any of the major suspension manufacturers they used..

well....answer the questions you pose for a change.. :lol:

What planet are you on? The works cars ALL ran bilsteins and they ALL had inverted dampers.

Group n, group a and maxi. The mk2 cup cars too. Bilstein only make INVERTED dampers.

Richardcard1974
10-05-2009, 23:06
Mk2 clio cup racer

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Renault-Clio-Cup-182-172-Race-Rally-Bilstein-Suspension_W0QQitemZ260398864029QQcmdZViewItemQQpt ZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item260398 864029&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1683|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A13 18|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50


Inverted Bilstein dampers. Same fitment as the group a and maxi cars.

Evogone
10-05-2009, 23:07
quote]

What planet are you on? The works cars ALL ran bilsteins and they ALL had inverted dampers.

Group n, group a and maxi. The mk2 cup cars too. Bilstein only make INVERTED dampers.[/quote]

Err no they dont all bilstein B4 dampers are the conventional type..dumb ass.

Richardcard1974
10-05-2009, 23:07
Do a search, they all look similar to above, just different hub fitments.

Richardcard1974
10-05-2009, 23:08
http://www.forum-auto.com/uploads/200602/r11_1140289990_amortos_bilstein.jpg

Similar with different hub fitment. Inverted bilstein. From a group a car

Evogone
10-05-2009, 23:12
Do a search, they all look similar to above, just different hub fitments.

Err no B4 are not inverted SpongeNob.

http://www.balancemotorsport.co.uk/sitepage/Bilstein.html

They are the black ones if you take your rose coloured hippy glasses off.

MAXIBOY
10-05-2009, 23:12
do you know what inverted dampers are.. :?

glad i'm not on your planet to be honest..

also are you telling me leda proflex and ohlins are shit because they are not inverted..

and no the works car didn't all run bilsteins.. :?

http://rst.clubdelst.com/catalog/images/Bilstein%20PSS9%20B16.jpg

not inverted... :shock:

MAXIBOY
10-05-2009, 23:17
http://www.forum-auto.com/uploads/200602/r11_1140289990_amortos_bilstein.jpg

Similar with different hub fitment. Inverted bilstein. From a group a car

there not inverted they are monotube..

and the other set you posted have only inverted rears not fronts

Richardcard1974
10-05-2009, 23:23
http://www.forum-auto.com/uploads/200602/r11_1140289990_amortos_bilstein.jpg

Similar with different hub fitment. Inverted bilstein. From a group a car

there not inverted they are monotube..

and the other set you posted have only inverted rears not fronts

What the hell are you on about? Inverted dampers means the damper monotube is upside down in the casing. Having the thickest part of the damper at the top of the strut provides the unit with extra strength.

If you have a degree id seriously consider getting some books to improve your knowledge because you have some serious shortfalls in your answers.

I can now see why you need to cut and paste other peoples posts.

Richardcard1974
10-05-2009, 23:27
Work Group A suspension

http://www.forum-auto.com/uploads/200602/r11_1140289990_amortos_bilstein.jpg

Bilstein

Inverted

webby
10-05-2009, 23:29
link is broken chap

J o n
10-05-2009, 23:29
My bet is leda

not even close... :roll:

:lol:

MAXIBOY
10-05-2009, 23:30
link doesn't work....

plus not all works suspension was bilstein as posted before.. some maybe but not all..

and not all was inverted..

had enough of your rubbish anyway.. :lol:

Jamie.
10-05-2009, 23:31
Link fixed.

Richardcard1974
10-05-2009, 23:31
My bet is leda

not even close... :roll:

:lol:

Whats the secret?

Richardcard1974
10-05-2009, 23:32
link doesn't work....

plus not all works suspension was bilstein as posted before.. some maybe but not all..

and not all was inverted..

had enough of your rubbish anyway.. :lol:

You are wrong, all the works suspension was bilstein. I have the group a williams, group a 16s, group n and maxi manuals infront of me and its all bilstein. And they were all inverted.


YOU ARE WRONG

Look in your pdf manuals. Then admit it.

J o n
10-05-2009, 23:53
My bet is leda

not even close... :roll:

:lol:

Whats the secret?

need to know basis. your need for info is purely critical... therefore you don't need to know ;)

Evogone
10-05-2009, 23:56
link doesn't work....

plus not all works suspension was bilstein as posted before.. some maybe but not all..

and not all was inverted..

had enough of your rubbish anyway.. :lol:

You are wrong, all the works suspension was bilstein. I have the group a williams, group a 16s, group n and maxi manuals infront of me and its all bilstein. And they were all inverted.


YOU ARE WRONG

Look in your pdf manuals. Then admit it.

Only the fronts are monotube..

Richardcard1974
11-05-2009, 09:08
My bet is leda

not even close... :roll:

:lol:

Whats the secret?

need to know basis. your need for info is purely critical... therefore you don't need to know ;)

I will search on cliosport.

Evogone
11-05-2009, 10:21
Thanks for taking us off topic again, to summarize and close the thread.

SpongeNob you are wrong on the key pointed raised in this topic.

1. 190hp possible with cams and headwork

2. Not all Bilstein dampers are monotube (BlackB4 dampers)

3. Not all works rallycars ran Bilsteins as some ran Ohlins particularly the Mk2 (Bilstein being the cheeper option)

Please start a new thread ref suspension if you want to continue as you are off topic and im sure you wouldnt want to demonstrate you hypocritical personality.

J o n
11-05-2009, 10:28
My bet is leda

not even close... :roll:

:lol:

Whats the secret?

need to know basis. your need for info is purely critical... therefore you don't need to know ;)

I will search on cliosport.

lol, really must like my car Rob. As said, when you decide that the 1.2 8v lump and fisher price suspension aren't upto the job in the rally car give me a shout.

Richardcard1974
11-05-2009, 13:43
My bet is leda

not even close... :roll:

:lol:

Whats the secret?

need to know basis. your need for info is purely critical... therefore you don't need to know ;)

I will search on cliosport.

lol, really must like my car Rob. As said, when you decide that the 1.2 8v lump and fisher price suspension aren't upto the job in the rally car give me a shout.

No its ok, Barryboy road racing isnt ma thang. But fair play if you enjoy 'wasting' an 17 year old chav in a 10 year old clapped out subaru and a business man in his diesel 4 door rep mobile.

J o n
11-05-2009, 14:03
you need to be 21 or 25 to insure a turbo'd Impreza.

and of course road racing isn't your thing, there's a video of you losing control of a very very very very very slow car. I'm guessing it's the inverted dampers causing it not to handle. Give me a shout if you're strapped for cash, I may loan you some and you can get some decent kit and a 2.0 for it.

Richardcard1974
11-05-2009, 14:17
and of course road racing isn't your thing, .


At last, something we have in common. I dont race my car because it isnt finished. You dont race your car because you get someone else to do it for you.

Evogone
11-05-2009, 14:25
and of course road racing isn't your thing, .


At last, something we have in common. I dont race my car because it isnt finished. You dont race your car because you get someone else to do it for you.

Your car will never be used in competition by you, waste of time owning it. You just hang onto it as its your only hope of being able to justify your existance on here......

Anyways your off topic go screw another thread.

J o n
11-05-2009, 14:38
and of course road racing isn't your thing, .


At last, something we have in common. I dont race my car because it isnt finished. You dont race your car because you get someone else to do it for you.

No, we have nothing in common other than an interest in cars... although my interest extends beyond my own. You however resort to hiding behind your keyboard trying to belittle other people's efforts because you are too much of a big girls blouse to do it to their face and too jealous, insecure and antagonistic to get along. You challenge and make threats on an internet forum and never carry them out despite going on and on about whatever particular bee you happen to have in your bonnet that day. You are judemental and critical of anyone and anything beyond your own understanding or financial budget and whenever you get called out upon it you resport to crying wolf. I deal with things myself, so again, another thing we couldn't be more polar opposites on.

So really I'd say we have absolutely nothing in common, other than mutual dislike.

for the record, I dont race my car full stop, I do trackdays, I'm not a competative person in the least.

Richardcard1974
11-05-2009, 17:58
Jon, if you dont want people to ask about your coilovers, why mention that they are very expensive and very good?

Surely if you post this someone is going to want to know what they are?

If you think the question is awkward in some way and you dont want to discuss the coilovers, why not just keep quiet about having them?

If you are truely non-competitive then i expect lots of posts about how clean your car was on a track day, hownd how you enjoyed the company.

If you post about how much quicker than other cars your car was, are we not suposed to assume this is competitive behaviour?

Also if you do post about the speed of your car and how quick it was, do you not expect people to aou dont like discussions around the speed of your car, why do you post the information to be questioned?

If it makes you unconfortable, just dont post up the threads about its performance.

You have stated many times in this thread and others that your car is quicker than my 'why make the basic 'axiom'?

P.S. - i take it your dampers t inverted then?

Carole Anne
11-05-2009, 18:49
blah blah blah :lol:

1995clio16v
11-05-2009, 19:00
Jon, if you dont want people to ask about your coilovers, why mention that they are very expensive and very good?

Surely if you post this someone is going to want to know what they are?

If you think the question is awkward in some way and you dont want to discuss the coilovers, why not just keep quiet about having them?

If you are truely non-competitive then i expect lots of posts about how clean your car was on a track day, hownd how you enjoyed the company.

If you post about how much quicker than other cars your car was, are we not suposed to assume this is competitive behaviour?

Also if you do post about the speed of your car and how quick it was, do you not expect people to aou dont like discussions around the speed of your car, why do you post the information to be questioned?

If it makes you unconfortable, just dont post up the threads about its performance.

You have stated many times in this thread and others that your car is quicker than my 'why make the basic 'axiom'?

P.S. - i take it your dampers t inverted then?

Can we see some pictures of your car...?

J o n
11-05-2009, 19:12
Jon, if you dont want people to ask about your coilovers, why mention that they are very expensive and very good?

Not people, just you.

Surely if you post this someone is going to want to know what they are?

Anyone interested already knows... If you have the money to upgrade I'll forward the guys contact details and he can make you some.

If you think the question is awkward in some way and you dont want to discuss the coilovers, why not just keep quiet about having them?

Not an awkward question, you just mentioned previously my car doesn't handle, now you know it has coilovers so you are looking for ammo to criticise as sadly the engine performance you cant really say anything about. You only need to know it has them, you can look at them yourself if you ever come to a trackday. Once I get bored of lapping you pop over and beg me, I 'might' tell you (by the way, that's not being competative, your car simply isn't in the same performance bracket. Like comparing a Metro to an M3)

If you are truely non-competitive then i expect lots of posts about how clean your car was on a track day, hownd how you enjoyed the company.

well we all have our expectations Rob, you growing up isn't one of mine. Plus I dont like cleaning cars, nor do I feel the need to write up reports of trackdays as I do enough of them.

If you post about how much quicker than other cars your car was, are we not suposed to assume this is competitive behaviour?

That's not being competative, it's called making an observation, hence why I dont actually care what you think and am not the one getting wound up over it. Believe what you want.

Also if you do post about the speed of your car and how quick it was, do you not expect people to aou dont like discussions around the speed of your car, why do you post the information to be questioned?

depends if those same people are idiots using the driver as an example of how quick the car is and comparing it to one driven by a race driver. Making it more silly given that it merely was a comment relating to the straight bits on Snetterton.

If it makes you unconfortable, just dont post up the threads about its performance.

It doesn't, you took the charger thread off topic from the engine performance to god knows what... your Nicky Clarke 80's Avalon iirc... I forget as your posts all roll into one mass of bitter jealously it's hard to remember. Once you run out of points the argument changes and you ignore most of what's said...I know this game remember Rob :roll:

You have stated many times in this thread and others that your car is quicker than my 'why make the basic 'axiom'?

Of course it's quicker, that's basic common sense and power to weight. Even if your car did handle it wont make up that defecit round any UK tracks with equal driver... by UK tracks I'm not including Mickey Mouse sprint days which are built for go karts.

P.S. - i take it your dampers t inverted then?

I don't know or care tbh if they are or not. You would know the difference if you drove it either way so why does it matter? Reading google an expert it makes you not.

Richardcard1974
11-05-2009, 19:22
Do you like my hair?

J o n
11-05-2009, 19:35
maybe if it looked like it was washed once in a while... even then probably not... but try and stay on topic... whatever that currently is :roll:

(alternatively - if you having nothing worth responding with, then give your keyboard some much needed rest please)

Evogone
11-05-2009, 19:41
Do you like my hair?

SpongeNob.

Spam spam spam stop being 2 faced and create another topic or keep on topic.

Maybe a thread showing your rattlecan rallycar...im sure there would be plenty of interest. Go one show us you have some guts and post some pics... :lol: :lol:

Richardcard1974
11-05-2009, 19:48
Do you like my hair?

SpongeNob.

Spam spam spam stop being 2 faced and create another topic or keep on topic.

Maybe a thread showing your rattlecan rallycar...im sure there would be plenty of interest. Go one show us you have some guts and post some pics... :lol: :lol:

I know you are a little slow, and i do make allowances for this. There has been a thread with pics of my car in it on the board in the video section for about a week now.

If you need help accessing the section let me know and i will post up instructions in picture form.

Richardcard1974
11-05-2009, 19:50
maybe if it looked like it was washed once in a while... even then probably not... but try and stay on topic... whatever that currently is :roll:

(alternatively - if you having nothing worth responding with, then give your keyboard some much needed rest please)

You should try some of the conditioner i have, it has macademia nut oil in it. I can lend you some if you like.

We should meet up in snake pass.

J o n
11-05-2009, 19:57
I dont use conditioner, I'm straight.

You mean the actual Snakes Pass, or is that a euphemism for wanting to sodomise me? :?

... or is it a threat? In which case don't be fooled into thinking i'm intimidated by you or your size. Can't put muscles on your chin ;)

Richardcard1974
11-05-2009, 19:59
You like it in the peaks dont you?

J o n
11-05-2009, 20:00
Rob, keep on topic and save that talk for the prison showers.

Richardcard1974
11-05-2009, 20:04
Trying to arrange a passenger ridein the beast. Isnt the snake pass good for you?

Evogone
11-05-2009, 20:10
Do you like my hair?

SpongeNob.

Spam spam spam stop being 2 faced and create another topic or keep on topic.

Maybe a thread showing your rattlecan rallycar...im sure there would be plenty of interest. Go one show us you have some guts and post some pics... :lol: :lol:

I know you are a little slow, and i do make allowances for this. There has been a thread with pics of my car in it on the board in the video section for about a week now.

If you need help accessing the section let me know and i will post up instructions in picture form.

Some decent pics, not just a bodged pedlebox and a numberplate.

Suspension brakes etc.....

Oh yes and a video of you actually driving the car properly..

Richardcard1974
11-05-2009, 20:14
And how many pedal boxes have you designed and built?

J o n
11-05-2009, 20:30
Trying to arrange a passenger ridein the beast. Isnt the snake pass good for you?

i dont have any spare 600lb springs to put on the passenger front side...

Richardcard1974
11-05-2009, 20:31
:lol:

Wobba
11-05-2009, 20:52
blah blah blah :lol:

Hehehe. :spamsmile:

J o n
11-05-2009, 20:55
Most of this thread is spam and off topic... seems to be happening a lot at the moment.

2 live
11-05-2009, 21:30
wonder why?

Richardcard1974
11-05-2009, 21:38
I will move it to off topic later.

Evogone
11-05-2009, 23:07
And how many pedal boxes have you designed and built?

Designed / built LOL its off the shelfs item bodged to fit.....

Evogone
11-05-2009, 23:09
wonder why?

SpongeNob Squarepants....

Richardcard1974
11-05-2009, 23:12
And how many pedal boxes have you designed and built?

Designed / built LOL its off the shelfs item bodged to fit.....


So i take it you have built none then. No point discussing it with you as you have zero experience, and your opinion is worthless,

Evogone
11-05-2009, 23:19
And how many pedal boxes have you designed and built?

Designed / built LOL its off the shelfs item bodged to fit.....


So i take it you have built none then. No point discussing it with you as you have zero experience, and your opinion is worthless,

SpongeNob why would i want too.....

Neither have you thats the point its off the shelf just like a group a induction (just cause you cut the skuttle you designed it)...

I guess you designed your understeering Bilsteins..LOL

Again off topic spamming threads......

J o n
11-05-2009, 23:22
And how many pedal boxes have you designed and built?

Designed / built LOL its off the shelfs item bodged to fit.....


So i take it you have built none then. No point discussing it with you as you have zero experience, and your opinion is worthless,

Now now Rob, calm down before you get a hernia. So are we to assume you designed the box and then fabbed it yourself... or did you cobble bits together? There's nothing wrong with this if it works, but I think thats the point being made if you care to bring your ball back out to play again.

Richardcard1974
11-05-2009, 23:43
Im not sure your legs would be strong enough to use this box. Its all in the ankle strength.

Do you go to the gym?

J o n
11-05-2009, 23:46
Im not sure your legs would be strong enough to use this box. Its all in the ankle strength.

Do you go to the gym?

no, I rely on genetics, I dont need to go to the gym

Evogone
11-05-2009, 23:46
Im not sure your legs would be strong enough to use this box. Its all in the ankle strength.

Do you go to the gym?

SpongNob Alonso.

Again more Spam off topic, hypocrit..!

J o n
12-05-2009, 11:31
cant say as I really know what relevance an F1 car and driver have on a Clio thread, but I can't say that I'm even surprised by it... most people would have realised and quietly logged off and forgot their username and password :roll: