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schakal
17-04-2009, 18:28
anyone know what the ideal thickness for the solid top mounts are?
also would i be able to use lower thickness ,if i have them made from
mild steel ?

Richardcard1974
17-04-2009, 19:04
Surely steel is the best material to use?

MAXIBOY
17-04-2009, 19:33
best using aircraft grade alloys i would think..

like most of the pro items.

but you could use steel.

schakal
17-04-2009, 20:43
best using aircraft grade alloys i would think..

like most of the pro items.

but you could use steel.

yerr i know ,but want to use steel :P


would 4mm steel be good enough for the job ?

rob-legend
17-04-2009, 20:52
u knocking these up schakal? :wink: 8) :lol:

MAXIBOY
17-04-2009, 20:57
i would use 6mm mate..

schakal
17-04-2009, 21:19
u knocking these up schakal? :wink: 8) :lol:

yes mate ,i am waiting on laine to lend me the dremel he used
to rebore his engine block :lol:




seriously though ,i am not actually making solid top mounts but kinda
solidifiying the standard ones i got on my coilovers to get rid of the flex caused by the rubber inside them .
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa183/partsrenault/S8003206.jpg

here is the underside of the mount where the rubber is ,by loosing it
i also get a 20mm drop in height without even winding the coilies down :wink: :P

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa183/partsrenault/S8003184.jpg

Laine_16v
17-04-2009, 21:54
u knocking these up schakal? :wink: 8) :lol:

yes mate ,i am waiting on laine to lend me the dremel he used
to rebore his engine block :lol:




seriously though ,i am not actually making solid top mounts but kinda
solidifiying the standard ones i got on my coilovers to get rid of the flex caused by the rubber inside them .
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa183/partsrenault/S8003206.jpg

here is the underside of the mount where the rubber is ,by loosing it
i also get a 20mm drop in height without even winding the coilies down :wink: :P

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa183/partsrenault/S8003184.jpg

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/15/bill%20murray%20you%20suck.jpg

Richardcard1974
17-04-2009, 22:15
Mine are 8mm steel.

schakal
17-04-2009, 22:24
Mine are 8mm steel.

pics ?
how do you actually secure a solid top mount on a clio ? :roll:

rob-legend
17-04-2009, 22:44
:lol: at laine

Richardcard1974
17-04-2009, 23:54
Mine are sheet steel and are bolted underneath the top of the tower.

The top of the tower is cut away to compensate.

Mine are similar to the top mount kits you see. but the circular top mount is bolted under 8mm steel, and then under the strut tower top.

Not sure id be happy bolting a top mount top the top of the tower tbh

schakal
18-04-2009, 00:33
8mm is way to thick dont be a fooking girl .
i thought you were trying to save weight anyway :?:

MAXIBOY
18-04-2009, 02:41
Mine are sheet steel and are bolted underneath the top of the tower.

The top of the tower is cut away to compensate.

Mine are similar to the top mount kits you see. but the circular top mount is bolted under 8mm steel, and then under the strut tower top.

Not sure id be happy bolting a top mount top the top of the tower tbh


pity you never let your mum drive it then..

Richardcard1974
18-04-2009, 10:34
8mm is way to thick dont be a fooking girl .
i thought you were trying to save weight anyway :?:

Weight saving is for gays. Real men build STRONG cars. The stronger it is the harder you can drive it before it breaks.

Richardcard1974
18-04-2009, 10:35
Mine are sheet steel and are bolted underneath the top of the tower.

The top of the tower is cut away to compensate.

Mine are similar to the top mount kits you see. but the circular top mount is bolted under 8mm steel, and then under the strut tower top.

Not sure id be happy bolting a top mount top the top of the tower tbh


pity you never let your mum drive it then..

Well i can never get your mum out if it. She tells me she loves it. Well at least i think that what she said as she had her mouth ful at the time, and to be fair, i wasnt the only one there.

MAXIBOY
18-04-2009, 10:50
Mine are sheet steel and are bolted underneath the top of the tower.

The top of the tower is cut away to compensate.

Mine are similar to the top mount kits you see. but the circular top mount is bolted under 8mm steel, and then under the strut tower top.

Not sure id be happy bolting a top mount top the top of the tower tbh


pity you never let your mum drive it then..

Well i can never get your mum out if it. She tells me she loves it. Well at least i think that what she said as she had her mouth ful at the time, and to be fair, i wasnt the only one there.

thats sick my mum's been dead for a few years. you really are a sick boy..

schakal
18-04-2009, 10:53
Weight saving is for gays. Real men build STRONG cars. The stronger it is the harder you can drive it before it breaks.

ahh so you admit you were kinda ghay while you were saving
weight in the past ? shame you could not pay your server bills
i could have got some links of proof from your website :D

Richardcard1974
18-04-2009, 11:06
Mine are sheet steel and are bolted underneath the top of the tower.

The top of the tower is cut away to compensate.

Mine are similar to the top mount kits you see. but the circular top mount is bolted under 8mm steel, and then under the strut tower top.

Not sure id be happy bolting a top mount top the top of the tower tbh


pity you never let your mum drive it then..

Well i can never get your mum out if it. She tells me she loves it. Well at least i think that what she said as she had her mouth ful at the time, and to be fair, i wasnt the only one there.

thats sick my mum's been dead for a few years. you really are a sick boy..

So dont bring my mum into it then. You started it.

Richardcard1974
18-04-2009, 11:08
Weight saving is for gays. Real men build STRONG cars. The stronger it is the harder you can drive it before it breaks.

ahh so you admit you were kinda ghay while you were saving
weight in the past ? shame you could not pay your server bills
i could have got some links of proof from your website :D

I think i could manage 5 pounds a month schaks. The data base is still there, its just its not ONLINE anymore. Dont you worry about that my loverly.

MAXIBOY
18-04-2009, 11:09
You started it.[/quote]

its like being back at school.. :lol:

schakal
18-04-2009, 11:23
Weight saving is for gays. Real men build STRONG cars. The stronger it is the harder you can drive it before it breaks.

ahh so you admit you were kinda ghay while you were saving
weight in the past ? shame you could not pay your server bills
i could have got some links of proof from your website :D

I think i could manage 5 pounds a month schaks. The data base is still there, its just its not ONLINE anymore. Dont you worry about that my loverly.

i give you a tenner if you be quiet for 5 :D

Richardcard1974
18-04-2009, 12:18
You started it.

its like being back at school.. :lol:[/quote]

You wouldnt last 5 minutes in my class. Id ask you to tell me the chemical element to the left of iron on the periodic table and send you out when you didnt know thew answer.

Richardcard1974
18-04-2009, 12:19
Weight saving is for gays. Real men build STRONG cars. The stronger it is the harder you can drive it before it breaks.

ahh so you admit you were kinda ghay while you were saving
weight in the past ? shame you could not pay your server bills
i could have got some links of proof from your website :D

I think i could manage 5 pounds a month schaks. The data base is still there, its just its not ONLINE anymore. Dont you worry about that my loverly.

i give you a tenner if you be quiet for 5 :D

Sorry i thought you wanted some help with these top mounts?

col
18-04-2009, 16:31
workin in the steel industry.......3mm upto5mm would be more than adequate,,,,,,,,,have you tried bending 3mm steel?...........

.......8mm?....well thats one way of lowering the front end :)

schakal
18-04-2009, 16:52
workin in the steel industry.......3mm upto5mm would be more than adequate,,,,,,,,,have you tried bending 3mm steel?...........

.......8mm?....well thats one way of lowering the front end :)

nice one mate :D
4mm seems to be the ticket for me .

rickyquicky
14-05-2009, 12:36
You started it.

its like being back at school.. :lol:

You wouldnt last 5 minutes in my class. Id ask you to tell me the chemical element to the left of iron on the periodic table and send you out when you didnt know thew answer.[/quote]

lol and why would anyone care?! :roll:

MAXIBOY
14-05-2009, 13:32
its all hes got.. :D

stew
14-05-2009, 19:27
workin in the steel industry.......3mm upto5mm would be more than adequate,,,,,,,,,have you tried bending 3mm steel?...........

.......8mm?....well thats one way of lowering the front end :)

sorry but i totally disagree with this.

8mm plate steel like rob is using is ideal.

3mm will bend. FULLSTOP

5mm may bend. possibly not so much as 3mm, but with the forces involved i wouldnt be playing with my life on it.

im a mechanical engineer, :) and my job consists of daily fabricating, modifying, examining and assessing large scale agricultural equipment on a farm 12,000+ acres. :( the following is my input and views which can be discussed, riduculed and such like. :oops:

remember that modifying such an integral part of the car is a job that has to be done right otherwise could lead to a disaster!

8mm steel would be adequate, 10mm or 12 a bit over the top but at the same time nowt wrong with it (other than extra weight!).

as for bolting them down, you would have to mount from below the turret to work properly, and possibly another plate on top, like a sandwich. 5mm would be fine for this.

i wouldnt use any bolts or kits that use less than M10 bolts rated to 8.8 preferably 10.9.

any welding should be carried out by a skilled blacksmith/fabricator who will know what size of weld seams to run and can garuantee that any welding wont crack under the stresses and vibrations!

for the likes of most things to do with modifying im not very anal, but important things like this its best to make sure its done right!

Richardcard1974
14-05-2009, 19:33
workin in the steel industry.......3mm upto5mm would be more than adequate,,,,,,,,,have you tried bending 3mm steel?...........

.......8mm?....well thats one way of lowering the front end :)

sorry but i totally disagree with this.

8mm plate steel like rob is using is ideal.

3mm will bend. FULLSTOP

5mm may bend. possibly not so much as 3mm, but with the forces involved i wouldnt be playing with my life on it.

im a mechanical engineer, :) and my job consists of daily fabricating, modifying, examining and assessing large scale agricultural equipment on a farm 12,000+ acres. :( the following is my input and views which can be discussed, riduculed and such like. :oops:

remember that modifying such an integral part of the car is a job that has to be done right otherwise could lead to a disaster!

8mm steel would be adequate, 10mm or 12 a bit over the top but at the same time nowt wrong with it (other than extra weight!).

as for bolting them down, you would have to mount from below the turret to work properly, and possibly another plate on top, like a sandwich. 5mm would be fine for this.

i wouldnt use any bolts or kits that use less than M10 bolts rated to 8.8 preferably 10.9.

any welding should be carried out by a skilled blacksmith/fabricator who will know what size of weld seams to run and can garuantee that any welding wont crack under the stresses and vibrations!

for the likes of most things to do with modifying im not very anal, but important things like this its best to make sure its done right!

Informative, informed and concise.

Justin..
14-05-2009, 20:11
^ Marks out of 10? :lol:

Richardcard1974
14-05-2009, 20:35
If the posts were like that this forum would be much improved. 10 / 10

schakal
15-05-2009, 15:22
i disagree with you too :D

firstly the mounts i am making are not for a clio ,totally different setup .
here are some pictures .
http://www.williamsclio.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=35428&highlight=

on the standard setup ,the section i am removing
(2nd pic ,left mount ) to replace with a solid mount is there mainly
to take the side movements of the chassis/piston rod .

the vertical movement is there to be taken by the shock absorber and
spring , so if you were running solid shock absorbers and springs
you could bend 4mm steel :D than i guess the turrets would bend/crack
before the solid mount.

again top of the standard mount where my 4mm steel bolts to is 2mm thick and i agree on using 10.9 bolts ,which is also what reno used mounting the top mounts to the turret .

J o n
15-05-2009, 15:29
anyone know what the ideal thickness for the solid top mounts are?
also would i be able to use lower thickness ,if i have them made from
mild steel ?

mild steel ones rust fella.

schakal
15-05-2009, 16:03
anyone know what the ideal thickness for the solid top mounts are?
also would i be able to use lower thickness ,if i have them made from
mild steel ?

mild steel ones rust fella.


how many mild steel ones have you used over the years than mate ??

Matty86
15-05-2009, 16:09
how thick is the metal on the shell where the top mounts normally bolt in?

busterhymes
15-05-2009, 16:10
mild steel will do the job and probably out last the car especially if its a renault :lol:

J o n
15-05-2009, 16:12
anyone know what the ideal thickness for the solid top mounts are?
also would i be able to use lower thickness ,if i have them made from
mild steel ?

mild steel ones rust fella.


how many mild steel ones have you used over the years than mate ??

none, because they rust. Ask Dan@GDI or Andy if you dont believe me. Mild steel rusts... it's not breaking news tbh.

schakal
15-05-2009, 16:19
none, because they rust. Ask Dan@GDI or Andy if you dont believe me. Mild steel rusts... it's not breaking news tbh.


i am hoping you are just taking piss or something ??
did you actually ask them before going off the idea ?? :D

J o n
15-05-2009, 16:33
none, because they rust. Ask Dan@GDI or Andy if you dont believe me. Mild steel rusts... it's not breaking news tbh.

i am hoping you are just taking piss or something ??
did you actually ask them before going off the idea ?? :D

no, you just asked a question and I answered it... :?

they rust, they have some on KT53, they are rusty... not really sure how else I can explain it really... lol

MAXIBOY
15-05-2009, 17:04
that's what primer and paint are for

J o n
15-05-2009, 17:09
I'll getting stainless steel ones for my car, piece of mind. Sick of rust lol

schakal
15-05-2009, 17:13
no, you just asked a question and I answered it... :?

they rust, they have some on KT53, they are rusty... not really sure how else I can explain it really... lol

sorry i thought you were kidding for a minute ,obviously not :shock:

assuming i have not coated the mounts , do you have any idea
how long it would take for 4mm steel plate to rust completely or
even enough to make them u/s especially located at the top end
of the suspension leg ?? not even mentioning these will be used
for track days only .

you better call renault and tell them about your discovery before
many lives get in danger , cause if you look at the cars they made
over the years ,most components they used in suspension is made
of mild steel and most are well below the 4mm line !!!

think of all the little washers ,bearing mounts etc etc
dont really need to ask anyone to figure this tbh mate
i thought you were a bit smarter than that :?

J o n
15-05-2009, 17:28
no, you just asked a question and I answered it... :?

they rust, they have some on KT53, they are rusty... not really sure how else I can explain it really... lol

sorry i thought you were kidding for a minute ,obviously not :shock:

assuming i have not coated the mounts , do you have any idea
how long it would take for 4mm steel plate to rust completely or
even enough to make them u/s especially located at the top end
of the suspension leg ?? not even mentioning these will be used
for track days only .

you better call renault and tell them about your discovery before
many lives get in danger , cause if you look at the cars they made
over the years ,most components they used in suspension is made
of mild steel and most are well below the 4mm line !!!

think of all the little washers ,bearing mounts etc etc
dont really need to ask anyone to figure this tbh mate
i thought you were a bit smarter than that :?

you asked about solid mild steel top mounts, I said that the GDI demo used them and they rusted and they will be replaced. This is a track car that is dry stored most of the year (well, all year). I'm just telling you what happened seeing as you asked the question and that I'd personally not bother... clearly something has been lost in translation, so I dont really think my intelligence is the issue here... maybe be eyesight sure, but as you have had no experience of them I thought you may find the info helpful... clearly not. No need to be a child about it :roll:

schakal
15-05-2009, 18:46
you asked about solid mild steel top mounts, I said that the GDI demo used them and they rusted and they will be replaced. This is a track car that is dry stored most of the year (well, all year). I'm just telling you what happened seeing as you asked the question and that I'd personally not bother... clearly something has been lost in translation, so I dont really think my intelligence is the issue here... maybe be eyesight sure, but as you have had no experience of them I thought you may find the info helpful... clearly not. No need to be a child about it :roll:

i asked if 4mm would be thick enough for the job ,you started going
on about something totally wrong and unrelated ,i suggest you and GDI
both have a lesson to learn about coating metals .

did not mean to be an arse , but you are really pushing it even
though you kinda realised you are WRONG !!! :roll:

stew
15-05-2009, 20:32
i disagree with you too :D

firstly the mounts i am making are not for a clio ,totally different setup .
here are some pictures .
http://www.williamsclio.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=35428&highlight=

on the standard setup ,the section i am removing
(2nd pic ,left mount ) to replace with a solid mount is there mainly
to take the side movements of the chassis/piston rod .

the vertical movement is there to be taken by the shock absorber and
spring , so if you were running solid shock absorbers and springs
you could bend 4mm steel :D than i guess the turrets would bend/crack
before the solid mount.

again top of the standard mount where my 4mm steel bolts to is 2mm thick and i agree on using 10.9 bolts ,which is also what reno used mounting the top mounts to the turret .

from looking at ur pics i would say that what you are doing looks spot on, but u are using part of the suspension top mount to create your solid top mounts. maybe its my bad but i assumed you were meaning making the top mount from scratch.

the turret steel is 3mm, formed and tack welded, and is strong dont get me wrong, but on the clio's the OE setup uses 3mm steel, a huge chunk of rubber to absorb the impacts, and is made of a conical design to increase strength. from what i have seen people do before is use sheet steel to create a solid disc which is bolted to where the turret top hole is, allowing mounting of the front struts, and this i assure you would need to be made from, as suggested, 8mm steel.

its a simple fact that bending and forming steel to a desired shape adds strength and rigidity while saving weight, but none of use hom diy'ers have the skills or more importantly the equipment to do so.

i like what you have done with yours and would love to see some finished pics. a before and after would be interesting too.

8)

stew
15-05-2009, 20:33
* edit *

its ment to read "home diy'ers....." :roll:

J o n
16-05-2009, 12:49
you asked about solid mild steel top mounts, I said that the GDI demo used them and they rusted and they will be replaced. This is a track car that is dry stored most of the year (well, all year). I'm just telling you what happened seeing as you asked the question and that I'd personally not bother... clearly something has been lost in translation, so I dont really think my intelligence is the issue here... maybe be eyesight sure, but as you have had no experience of them I thought you may find the info helpful... clearly not. No need to be a child about it :roll:

i asked if 4mm would be thick enough for the job ,you started going
on about something totally wrong and unrelated ,i suggest you and GDI
both have a lesson to learn about coating metals .

did not mean to be an arse , but you are really pushing it even
though you kinda realised you are WRONG !!! :roll:

dont worry, I'll send them in your direction when they need some advice on motorsport lol :roll:

schakal
16-05-2009, 12:55
dont worry, I'll send them in your direction when they need some advice on motorsport lol :roll:

again ,you got the wrong end of the stick .this is nothing to
do with motorsport ,just some common sense and basic skills .
i can now clearly see why even someone like stromba gets frustrated
with you ](*,)

by all means ,send them my way .i am approachable via
pm and email :wink:

stan
16-05-2009, 13:01
I personally think anything more than 5mm mild steel would be overkill.

I think my aluminium ones are 6mm on the clio.

richy
16-05-2009, 13:02
tbh i think the rusty ones will suit your car anyway.

J o n
16-05-2009, 13:04
dont worry, I'll send them in your direction when they need some advice on motorsport lol :roll:

again ,you got the wrong end of the stick .this is nothing to
do with motorsport ,just some common sense and basic skills .
i can now clearly see why even someone like Robert Barrington gets frustrated
with you ](*,)

by all means ,send them my way .i am approachable via
pm and email :wink:

and I can see why you two get on... cut from the same cloth springs to mind. anyway, carry on...

sideways danny
16-05-2009, 13:17
the "rusty" ones were prototypes that never really got produced. They had a locking collar like coilovers and the thread rusted. We've just finallised a brand new design that will be released soon, completely different from what we had before :)

stan
16-05-2009, 13:24
Are the new ones aluminium Dan?

sideways danny
16-05-2009, 13:29
certainly are

stan
16-05-2009, 13:37
Sweet.
Bit of a potch using steels for stuff like this I reckon....shacks get some Alu ones made you homo :D

schakal
16-05-2009, 14:36
so far i cant see any explanation as to why, how and to what level they rusted even from dan@gdi that made the mounts :roll:
i rest my case !!

stan , give me a good reason ??
as far as i am concerned steel is as strong if not stronger than the aluminium. unless aluminium has some magical characteristics that help handling it would be the most homosexual to not to use steel .

jesus , i get on with anyone that speaks truth/sense . what the fook
is so special with you that you can not accept defeat ??
this is not about becoming the alpha male of the forum , get over
your insecurities and fight your war elsewhere ( gaydar.com??)

anyway ,i got my answer from the constructive replies.
thanks all :)

J o n
16-05-2009, 15:08
mild steel ones rust fella.

I'm not sure how exactly the above has offended you, but I'm bored now. Check you inbox.

stan
16-05-2009, 15:09
You are less likely to suffer from fretting corrosion with aluminium on ferrous, as opposed to ferrous on ferrous.
Aluminium is considerably lighter.
It will be more likely to be considered aesthetically pleasing with machined aluminium.

If you have your heart set on a steel piece, thats fine, im just giving you something else to think about. I'd never use a steel for something like that.

schakal
16-05-2009, 15:38
mild steel ones rust fella.

I'm not sure how exactly the above has offended you, but I'm bored now. Check you inbox.


From: TheJesus
To: schakal
Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 2:13 pm
Subject: Conduct warning

Schakal,

If you want to insult me personally you can do it via PM until I get bored of you, but there seems to be a habbit of 'gay' insults starting off in the picture thread. You seem to have a personal problem with me, which I dont really know or care why but your conduct and attitude towards members has been brought up recently and it's starting to wear thin, as are the constant insults. The choice is pretty simple, adjust your attitude or you can have some time away from WC to do some much needed growing up, it's upto you.

Regards,

Admin

i am getting bored of you allready tbh .
you always happen to be the one insulted by many people around here . why not consider sometime away yourself ?? :roll:

J o n
16-05-2009, 15:43
You asked a question, I gave you a sensible answer, you then started insulting me. I'm guessing the reason for your attitude is down to not liking the banter in the caption the picture thread, again after insulting me personally for no reason.

Bring it public by all means, the warning still stands so I will just deal with you publicly from now on. Either way, thin ice sunshine.

sideways danny
16-05-2009, 16:05
so far i cant see any explanation as to why, how and to what level they rusted even from dan@gdi that made the mounts :roll:
i rest my case !!


Try asking without the agression.

As I said, the thread we used to sucure the mount rusted, so the locking ring became very difficult to remove. The threaded section would not be viable to protect with paint.

schakal
16-05-2009, 16:35
so far i cant see any explanation as to why, how and to what level they rusted even from dan@gdi that made the mounts :roll:
i rest my case !!


Try asking without the agression.

As I said, the thread we used to sucure the mount rusted, so the locking ring became very difficult to remove. The threaded section would not be viable to protect with paint.

no agression as you can see from my reply you quoted up there mate^^^

locking ring for the coil mounts ??
no idea what your setup looks like ,and i cant imagine from your description .its got to be way different to mine if designed for a clio.
but i can safely suggest using grease/copper grease on any exposed metal section that can not be protected with paint .

sideways danny
16-05-2009, 20:09
As i said, it was a prototype ;) if produced it wouldn't have been in Steel.

New ones are Anodised Aluminium

col
17-05-2009, 09:23
I rest my case.

Ps can use galvanised steel,........just welding......poisonous fumes (cough)

schakal
18-05-2009, 18:54
As i said, it was a prototype ;) if produced it wouldn't have been in Steel.

New ones are Anodised Aluminium

fair enough , you have to make them look pretty if you are selling .
mine are one off stuff and only made to function .

stan
19-05-2009, 11:44
Function to a lesser extent perhaps?

I see NO benefit of them being made in steel, except you cant buy billet aluminium from B&Q :lol:

The King
19-05-2009, 11:56
Function to a lesser extent perhaps?

I see NO benefit of them being made in steel, except you cant buy billet aluminium from B&Q :lol:

How thick is the steel plate in your arm? Are you sure this wont rust? I think GDI uses aluminium for all hominoid mammalian applications as it has superb anti rust application. You better check yours wont rust. PM Dan@GDI to check for sure.

J o n
19-05-2009, 12:06
again, stay on topic Rob :roll:

stan
19-05-2009, 22:22
Function to a lesser extent perhaps?

I see NO benefit of them being made in steel, except you cant buy billet aluminium from B&Q :lol:

How thick is the steel plate in your arm? Are you sure this wont rust? I think GDI uses aluminium for all hominoid mammalian applications as it has superb anti rust application. You better check yours wont rust. PM Dan@GDI to check for sure.

Its titanium.

Plus, surgical STAINLESS steel doesnt rust.