View Full Version : Torson bar dia ??? std vs uprated
What is the dia for the following and what dia where the upgrated / rally ones ?
16v
Williams
Cup racer
Gp N/A rallycar
And where can you buy them ?
as far as i'm aware the first two run exactly the same bars..
group N/A ran 25.5 26.5 28.0 mm bars.
rally cars also ran an uprated anti roll bar.
again 21.6 23.2 24.5 mm
plus some cars ran an extra anti roll bar fitted externally to the axle beam.
not sure if these are still available..only place i've ever seen then is richard motorsport the german site..iirc..
edited by northy 15.04.09
cliokongen
15-04-2009, 07:14
You can use the bars from a Renault 5 Express (Van).
They are thicker than the std. items used on the Williams/Valver.
It's a straigt swap - i'm using them... works fine.
I think thickness is about 23,5mm - not sure as it's been several years since i changed them (8 years) :)
I should be much cheaper to go this route than buying from Reichard Motorsport.
Michael
There is another german (i think website) and they offer all the GP A and N parts. I have seen it but can not find it.
They sell 23 24 25mm torson bars about 180E.
Just can not find the wes site but they sold everything.!!
never seen that site mate
just been on reichard motorsport. they sell 23.2mm bars which look like the extra van ones at 289.00 euros.
so if you can find this other site let me know.
as far as i'm aware the first three run exactly the same bars.
cup cars had differant torsion bars
I will check the spec tonight for you
cool..
need the diameter if you have it mate...
thanks northy..
The torsion bars from the Renault 5 Extra van fit as well.
Have them fitted and work a treat.
They are 23.3mm compared to the standard 22mm Williams torsion bar.
Richardcard1974
15-04-2009, 19:31
If the rear of your car is stripped out it will weigh pretty much next to **** all, do you really need to stiffen the suspension up?
The roll at the back of the car helps the weight transfer to the front outside wheel, which increases front end grip. If you increase the spring rate at the back, you increase some of the grip to the back wheel, where it isnt needed.
If the rear of your car is stripped out it will weigh pretty much next to f**k all, do you really need to stiffen the suspension up?
The roll at the back of the car helps the weight transfer to the front outside wheel, which increases front end grip. If you increase the spring rate at the back, you increase some of the grip to the back wheel, where it isnt needed.
When you fit different front suspension which is double the spring poundage of the original specification.
Yet keep the OEM rear spring rate, the car doesn't handle effectively.
Fitting the correct torsion bar to the rear, to raise the spring rate. Allows you to feel the rear end doing its job again.
i disagree..its about getting balance.
rear end is too soft as standard..
Richardcard1974
16-04-2009, 12:44
The mighty group A cars ran torsion bars as thin as 21 mm on some set ups. You guys better get on the phone to Jean and tell him Renault stuffed up his set ups.
no..they ran 25.5mm and 26.5mm and 28mm
they ran 21.6mm and 23.2mm and 24.5 mm anti roll bars..
not torsion bars
you had better get on the phone to Jean and tell him you made a mistake..
edit that last post..
its 21.6 23.2 24.5 and 26.0mm torsion bars..
25.5 26.5 and 28.0mm anti roll bars..
you had better get on the phone to Jean and tell him i made a mistake
but as above yes they do run a softer bar than standard but also three thicker than standard bars..
the thicker bars on tarmac where you are afforded more grip. they also ran stiffer front springs and larger brakes on the tarmac spec cars.
haven't we done all this before.. :shock:
thicker doesnt mean stiffer................steel grades etc.......just a thought
does in this case coops as the bars are identical and get stiffer by thickness..
found the 21.6mm bars the 23.2mm bars just trying to source thicker bars..
Richardcard1974
16-04-2009, 15:06
edit that last post..
its 21.6 23.2 24.5 and 26.0mm torsion bars..
25.5 26.5 and 28.0mm anti roll bars..
you had better get on the phone to Jean and tell him i made a mistake
but as above yes they do run a softer bar than standard but also three thicker than standard bars..
the thicker bars on tarmac where you are afforded more grip. they also ran stiffer front springs and larger brakes on the tarmac spec cars.
haven't we done all this before.. :shock:
So i WAS right then? Apology accepted. You should get onto Jean and tell him that when you look at the picture of the torsion beam you need to rotate it 180 degree to get the right orientation of it under the car.
Richardcard1974
16-04-2009, 15:08
By the way feel free to come down and have a look at my collection of bars, anything you want to know let me know.
no..
as usual you try and pick information to support a theory rather than looking at the whole picture.
yes they used a standard bar but they also used three thicker bars with upgrade anti roll bars and even extra antiroll bars to stiffen the rear end.
as they also found the rear to soft.
so you were wrong in your assumption they used just a softer bar..
again this is so old and repetitive its boring.
the handling can be improved upon..just learn to live with this fact.. :lol:
By the way feel free to come down and have a look at my collection of bars, anything you want to know let me know.
:shock: this isn't a male dating site, keep it fun and clean
does in this case coops as the bars are identical and get stiffer by thickness..
found the 21.6mm bars the 23.2mm bars just trying to source thicker bars..
ah fair enough, i thought it would of been more appropriate to just use 'springier' steel, and keep the weight of a thicker bar out of the equation, spose not for a lowly clio :wink:
By the way feel free to come down and have a look at my collection of bars, anything you want to know let me know.
cool..have you anything thicker than a 23.2mm bar mate
i want some 24.5 or above.
have some quotes done at the minute but its going to be expensive i feel.
as promised.
MK1 CLIO CUP RACE SPEC.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y107/northy_com/DSC01029-1.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y107/northy_com/DSC01034-1.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y107/northy_com/DSC01035-1.jpg
So are the cup std parts then...
no look custom... :D as far as i can tell
Standard Williams:
Torsion Bar: 22mm
ARB: 24.9mm
Grp N: (As Per Manual)
Torsion Bar: 23.2mm / 24.5mm
ARB: 26.5mm
Grp A: (As Per Manual)
Torsion Bar: 21.6mm / 23.2mm / 24.5mm
ARB: 25.5mm / 26.5mm
So the cup racer spec looks like OEM Williams?
What would be interesting to know, is the Clio 1.8 16v torsion bar size.
Standard Williams:
Torsion Bar: 22mm
ARB: 24.9mm
Grp N: (As Per Manual)
Torsion Bar: 23.2mm / 24.5mm
ARB: 26.5mm
Grp A: (As Per Manual)
Torsion Bar: 21.6mm / 23.2mm / 24.5mm
ARB: 25.5mm / 26.5mm
So the cup racer spec looks like OEM Williams?
What would be interesting to know, is the Clio 1.8 16v torsion bar size.
no as its 22.3mm
also theres an 28mm anti roll bar too.
maybe the 1.8 are 21.6mm standard
Richardcard1974
17-04-2009, 00:33
Group N for the win
The mighty group A cars ran torsion bars as thin as 21 mm on some set ups. You guys better get on the phone to Jean and tell him Renault stuffed up his set ups.
Didn't you say that the Williams ARB was only 10% more rigid than the 16v one?
better call Jean and let him know you made a mistake
Standard Williams:
Torsion Bar: 22mm
ARB: 24.9mm
Grp N: (As Per Manual)
Torsion Bar: 23.2mm / 24.5mm
ARB: 26.5mm
Grp A: (As Per Manual)
Torsion Bar: 21.6mm / 23.2mm / 24.5mm
ARB: 25.5mm / 26.5mm
So the cup racer spec looks like OEM Williams?
What would be interesting to know, is the Clio 1.8 16v torsion bar size.
are you sure about the williams arb mate ??
i thought williams used 23mm arb bushes :roll:
this is rear mate :D
:oops:
I have been quoted £150 :cry: :cry: plus vat ,each for these any diameter.I will have to take one of my spares as a sample for the splines,exact length etc etc. :wink: :wink:
Anyone wanting further info,please get in touch.
When you consider,about 5 years ago I got hold of a brand new REAR anti roll bar ( Grp "A" book) through my Renault agents ~~ :lol: :lol: It cost me £140 plus vat then :cry: :cry: Just for the bar,I then had to make the mountings etc etc.
Rod
lose the torsion bar and go full coilovers, pretty sure kits are available to do this
I have been quoted £150 :cry: :cry: plus vat ,each for these any diameter.I will have to take one of my spares as a sample for the splines,exact length etc etc. :wink: :wink:
Anyone wanting further info,please get in touch.
When you consider,about 5 years ago I got hold of a brand new REAR anti roll bar ( Grp "A" book) through my Renault agents ~~ :lol: :lol: It cost me £140 plus vat then :cry: :cry: Just for the bar,I then had to make the mountings etc etc.
Rod
What diam do you run Rod ?
lose the torsion bar and go full coilovers, pretty sure kits are available to do this
Alot of class regs dont allow this.
Mine dont: "original suspension type must be retained".
What diam do you run Rod ?
Steve,
To be honest,I have not checked :oops: :oops: .It uses a proper Gp "A" ish beam :lol: :lol: ~~ from the Irish car.I thought if those lads have got it set up for the Irish lanes,it will be ok for Mull and the like.I will check for you,next time I put in on axle stands etc.
please do mate..
i assume 23.2mm but may be 24.5mm.. 8)
get it on stands soon..
Woznaldo
22-01-2018, 02:12
Good Evening All, sorry to bring up an old thread, but what are the lengths of these bars and how many splines at each end? I'm actually researching for an R5 GT Turbo, but as alluded to above, fitment is the same.
Woz
Woznaldo
17-04-2020, 07:51
Good Evening All, sorry to bring up an old thread, but what are the lengths of these bars and how many splines at each end? I'm actually researching for an R5 GT Turbo, but as alluded to above, fitment is the same.
Woz
I've currently got my GTT Rear Beam off the car and have modded it to accept 172 stub axles and brake caliper mounts. I also removed the torsion bars and I'm now looking for upgrade options noting all of the above. I've taken the length measurements, that will be the same as the Clio 16V/Williams and got:
Torsion Bar - 595mm
Anti-Roll Bar - 507mm
If anyone has anything drastically different I'll be surprised. I'll post again in 2022!
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