PDA

View Full Version : TAP TAP TAPTAPTAPTAP!



Wobba
16-03-2009, 00:09
I am now getting a continuous loud tapping, increasing with revs, it does not go away.

It has been like this before on and off when cold, now it's all the time, but it did stop for about 5 minutes as I was just coming home.

Today saw 217 being seriously driven hard, for the first time in ages. I have swapped the exhaust over this weekend, not sure if it could be damaged manifold (don't think so), sticking tappets or injectors. Why would injectors make such a racket and what can I do about it?

It's seriously annoying. There appears no performance drop but the car sounds like a Scooby on low revs.

I am going to try Wynns top end treatment for starters, any other suggestions?

busterhymes
16-03-2009, 08:13
does sound bit like a faulty hydraulic tappet, nothing in a injector that could make that much noise.

Wobba
16-03-2009, 10:28
Temperature warning light came on as well this morning, even though temperature was barely showing. Lost a fair amount of coolant, no sign of contamination from oil in header tank though.

Dr_S
17-03-2009, 14:44
I have same sound on my F7R-714....

Don`t know what is it

Wobba
17-03-2009, 16:24
Pretty sure it was a stuck tappet/s. It has gone completely now!

I have a suspicion the fact I'd lost a lot of coolant over Sunday made my warning light come on. Not sure why car sounded like a Scooby though, could be related. Sounds fine now!

Going to put Forte Top End Treatment in tonight to help it not happen again.

MatrixGuy
17-03-2009, 18:55
My tappets are getting on my tits too.

Justin..
17-03-2009, 19:58
the subaru type noise could have been a misfire?

Wobba
17-03-2009, 23:21
the subaru type noise could have been a misfire?

Possibly. I was thinking it felt more like a sensor issue. My coolant had dropped so low there was nothing left in the bottle and the rad had a shitload of air in it, I think that's why the temperature warning light came on when it was still cold in the morning, or that the sensor plug was being iffy. It's a new sensor, so I reckon if that's the case it was just the connection.

The tappets have totally quietened down now, and I have just put Forte top end treatment in. I have also gotten sick of coolant leaks after fixing 4 leaks within about 3 months so I've stuck some K-Seal in now to see what happens. If it's still leaking I'll save up, take some time off and do the rad, matrix, HG, cambelt, tappets etc all in one hit.

The car still pulls like a mule and goes very well, so I am just going to enjoy it now.

Wobba
17-03-2009, 23:22
I shold have probably said, kicks like a mule and pulls like a train... :roll:

Justin..
18-03-2009, 01:49
pulls like a mule, lmao!


at least she's still running right!

Clio_GTT
18-03-2009, 09:38
Smell the exhaust fumes for a sweet smell, it might be burning that coolant off, possible HG failure which would cause that scooby sound too.

Wobba
22-03-2009, 21:13
Smell the exhaust fumes for a sweet smell, it might be burning that coolant off, possible HG failure which would cause that scooby sound too.

Yep. Been doing that. I think it is showing signs of going, though it's not that bad yet if it is.

The tapping is back with a vengeance now :( Scooby noise as well. They must be related. Maybe a valve?

number1
22-03-2009, 21:31
Whats the coolant smell of? can you smell fuel in the header tank?
Mine made a scooby sound and a tapping sound when the HG went between 2 cylinders, hence no coolant loss for me

Wobba
22-03-2009, 22:13
Thing is I am getting coolant loss as well...

I have (I think) located a small leak from the black of the block near exhaust manifold.

I was wondering if it could be an injector issue as well, making a misfire, hence the scooby sound and ticking. Sometimes you can hear multiple tapping noises then it goes down to a single tap, varying degree's of loudness. It's either that or tappets.

I put in some k-seal, it seems to have helped with the leaking, but not fully.

I think my only option, sometime in the future, is too replace the HG and tappets and do cambelt at same time and get a new rad as I think it is not very efficient.

number1
22-03-2009, 22:25
The 1800 engine i ripped out the Current valver i have had a water leak over the back of the head, was HG as the engine was going to be binned anyhow i wasnt too worried and kept filling it with water

Wobba
22-03-2009, 23:18
I think if I had not been on the ball checking, bleeding and refilling it would have gone bang by now...especially when my rad fan switch was failing (fixed now).

I've switched the the blue coolant now as the Type D top-ups were getting expensive.

robi1000
24-03-2009, 15:30
After reading your thread I am almost certain your HG failed. Reason for this may be because you lost so much water and you head might warped a little bit. Probably that is why your HG lost it's sealing ability. That is also why it runs on 3 cylinders and sounds like a Subaru Impreza. If valve would stick, then you'd have no compression on one cylinder. In my case it was so bad that there was no combustion in that particular cylinder. You could try and unplug your spark plugs one by one. If there's a cylinder where there's no change in engine note, that's the one with no combustion. Of course the most reliable test is compression test you guys were mentioning. If there is just a slight change in engine note when you disconnect one plug, then you most probably have a hole in the gasket between two cylinders. In short, it's most probably your HG (55€). You will also need a set of new bolts (I bought them from GSF, about 50€). That's it! :)

Wobba
24-03-2009, 15:40
After reading your thread I am almost certain your HG failed. Reason for this may be because you lost so much water and you head might warped a little bit. Probably that is why your HG lost it's sealing ability. That is also why it runs on 3 cylinders and sounds like a Subaru Impreza. If valve would stick, then you'd have no compression on one cylinder. In my case it was so bad that there was no combustion in that particular cylinder. You could try and unplug your spark plugs one by one. If there's a cylinder where there's no change in engine note, that's the one with no combustion. Of course the most reliable test is compression test you guys were mentioning. If there is just a slight change in engine note when you disconnect one plug, then you most probably have a hole in the gasket between two cylinders. In short, it's most probably your HG (55€). You will also need a set of new bolts (I bought them from GSF, about 50€). That's it! :)

Hehehe!

Another HG change, oh yay me!

Oh well, at least this time it wont be as hard as before and I can finally have some piece of mind. Gonna clean valves and valve seats myself this time rather than get ripped off like before.

I am going to book a few days off over easter and do it, including the cambelt, tappets, other gaskets and give the whole lot a major cleanup!

Oh...and I guess I can finally wrap my manifold in my heat wrap stuff!

robi1000
24-03-2009, 15:43
Don't forget to check if the head is straight. If it's not, there's no point in replacing the HG as it will fail again.

Wobba
24-03-2009, 15:49
Don't forget to check if the head is straight. If it's not, there's no point in replacing the HG as it will fail again.

Yea I'll get it tested and redone if it needs it. I think I will clean the valves myself as well and the oil valve stem thingies sorted too. I guess I need to remove the valves to do the seals?

robi1000
24-03-2009, 16:24
You have to remove the springs. If you remove the springs you can just pull your valves out.

cliokiz
24-03-2009, 16:41
I've just done all of the above.

See my project thread over on C16v for pics, pretty much explains the whole process.

Wobba
24-03-2009, 16:42
I've just done all of the above.

See my project thread over on C16v for pics, pretty much explains the whole process.

Oh cool :) Thanks!

Wobba
25-03-2009, 10:48
Ok, update. I had to come from further afield this morning to work. Oil warning light flashed up for about 20 seconds, but apart from the usual tappet sounds ans Impreza burble it seemed ok.

Later in the journey it stalled on me when at a standstill in traffic, and tried to stall a few more times, always at standstill, and a couple of actual proper misfires.

I recently had the flywheel sensor off and a lot of crap got kicked out from a core plug onto the teeth of the flywheel including tiny metal deposits which had a strange temporary effect on the revs for a few mins after I put it back on. Could it be the sensor is messed up/needs a clean?

Scooby noise could be lambda or where the valve is sticking due to stuck tappets, or could be a blocked injector...not sure...but there is definitely poor performance on one cylinder. Compression test says pressure is fine.

Hmm, what to do? Replace tappets is next guess...

Justin..
25-03-2009, 19:02
can that be done w/out head gasket?

Wobba
25-03-2009, 19:13
can that be done w/out head gasket?

I'll need a guide but it can be done without taking the head off. You take off cam cover, pulley cover, cambelt, cam followers, cams and pulleys. After that you can yoink the tappets out using a magnet if needed and simply replace them.

What I am not sure of is putting the cams back in. I am guessing there is only one way to put them in. I think you then turn the cams so the marks are at the top and the cam pulley is at TDC and put new cambelt on and refit the rest...

It's sometimes sounding normal in terms of firing on all cylinders then other times going back to scooby warble. I am shitting myself as I don't want it to be the bottom end spinning a bearing, will be a nightmare.

MAXIBOY
25-03-2009, 19:13
yes...

Justin..
25-03-2009, 19:25
whats pressure was on the dash dial when the light came on?


iirc adams williams 2 oil light used to be on all the time and it was just the sensor

Wobba
25-03-2009, 20:02
Pretty sure I have electrical gremlins surfacing at the same time as these damn tappets (assuming thats what it is making the loud tapping). Either that or I have an oil issue. I'm doing tappets this weekend and an oil change as well.

Wobba
30-03-2009, 14:54
Ok, update!

I replaced the tappets and cambelt. Refitted and re-timed it all up. got it all together.

IT'S FIXED! The engine sounds incredibly smooth once more with new tappets, which took me ages to prime. The difference in sound is amazing!

Problem is: I think I fukked up the fitment of the cam seals...two small pools of oil on the road after I ran the tappets in at 3k revs for 20 mins...

...I am hoping I can just take the pulleys off and wip them out and refit some new ones. PLEASE dont make me take the cam followers off again :(

Laine_16v
30-03-2009, 16:06
Youve probably pushed them in slightly to far.

MAXIBOY
30-03-2009, 16:17
you did fit the right size ones..

Wobba
30-03-2009, 16:49
They are defo the right ones Maxi.

Thing is, how far is too far?

I've just checked the underside of the car having driven it too work and there is no oil underneath and no droplets at all...

...I will investigate further but I am wodering if they have settled themselves or if by doing the tappets (and getting oil all over the place where it is not present normally) it has just shifted the oil out from the cam bearings...

I will monitor it but for now will assume it's the seals and keep topping up...

MAXIBOY
30-03-2009, 17:00
flush...ish..iirc is there the slightest chamfer on the head around the cam seal holes..

flush with that iirc

Wobba
30-03-2009, 17:12
ok, thanks. When I was poking the seals about they seem to move quite easily up and down the camshaft. Seem to me to be easy to knock out of place when reseating the cams and housing. I should have taken the pulleys off and boshed them in :(

MAXIBOY
30-03-2009, 17:41
yeah better to tap them in after the carriers are back on really..

Wobba
02-04-2009, 12:14
When I took the head apart, I found one of the torx bolts holding the cam carriers down to be completely loose too...