turbo won't fireup [Archive]

dhay14

07-02-2009, 22:08

hi all, i need some help please

i tried to start the engine today for the first time and to my suprise it would not start. when i turn the key i can clearly hear the fuelpomp but when i give it a try then the only thing that i hear is a loud tik sound comming from the starter and thats it. so it looks like the starter aint turning the flywheel

any ADVISE HOW I CAN TEST THE STARTER TO SEE IF IT WORKS?
any idea's?

dhayrone

kenny

07-02-2009, 22:18

What do you mean by 'first time'? first time for a week/month, or have you been rebuilding it? If it's first time for a week/month it's probably a poor battery or dirty terminals. Just not enough power getting to starter.

dhay14

07-02-2009, 22:21

its a fully rebuild blok

never started after the rebuild

Wobba

07-02-2009, 22:27

Flat battery.

kenny

07-02-2009, 22:28

its a fully rebuild blok

never started after the rebuild

Could be many things. What exactly have you got and done. for example is it the original engine or non standard replacement? Need more info.

dhay14

07-02-2009, 22:30

no mate i changed the battery. i think it's a faulty starter.
but i'm not sure. how can i test it?

dhay14

07-02-2009, 22:42

its a fully rebuild blok

never started after the rebuild

Could be many things. What exactly have you got and done. for example is it the original engine or non standard replacement? Need more info.

its a f7r engine fully rebuild with low compr pistons. the starter comes from my old valver engine

robi1000

08-02-2009, 00:22

If starter turns out to be ok, check your earths. Weird things happen to this cars when earths are not connected properly...

dhay14

08-02-2009, 00:26

yeah but how do i check if the starter is ok? is there a way to do this?

kenny

08-02-2009, 03:14

The best way is to remove it, fix it really firmly in a vice and connect battery to end terminals. Don't do it if you cant hold it really well, the turning torque on those things is phenominal, you probably know that already. Other than that it could be jammed, on the terminal end, in the centre there should be a square lug, might have a cap on it, with battery disconnected get a ring spanner on the end and make sure it turns freely.

Before that just make sure you have connected all the battery cables, I think one to earth and two to live, one small, one large.

dhay14

08-02-2009, 14:27

i will take a look during the week

it really sound as if it;s jammed though.

kenny

08-02-2009, 16:32

i will take a look during the week

it really sound as if it;s jammed though.

Check your earths first, poor connections/battery will have the same effect. The clicking noise is the starter solenoid activating, but without enough power to throw the starter gear forward to engage the flywheel.

bbaazz-08

09-02-2009, 23:54

^^^^^^bang on we get this all the time with the sales cars when they run low...a tick tick tick when you try turn it over? it is always either faulty battery/starter terminals or else its a week battery ----put a battery pack on it

cliokiz

10-02-2009, 10:46

Check your connections on the back of the starter motor, is the large connector bolted on? is the white wire with the spade connector connected ok?

Can you bump start it?

You don't need to put the starter motor in a vice to test it, just stand on it.

I've tested a few and they haven't been that violent.

I've got a good valver starter in the garage if you need one.

jay s

10-02-2009, 18:30

jay s

10-02-2009, 18:30

^^ is'nt engaging thats ment to be

col

10-02-2009, 19:48

Take it out an strip it clean with paraffin ,pre engaged part usually seizes

dhay14

26-02-2009, 21:13

kenny

26-02-2009, 21:50

ok ive sorted out the starter problem yet to find another one
car still wont fire up.

car has enaugh gas in it, fuel pump works, fuel lines are correct, engine has spark. when i use a cold start spray it will try to fire up but wont start.
i know for 90% that the timing is correct. and have no other clue why it wont start.

please help me as i'm loosing my mind...

dhayrone

Let us know sometime what was wrong with the starter.
Take plugs out and dry them, replace and try starting again, no starter fluid though (try starting for quite a long time so engine floods) if it will not start take plugs out and check if they have petrol residule on them. If all 4 have, fuel is getting to cylinders, if not, there might still be a fuel or fuel pressure problem. If there is fuel, check spark at plugs, dont just check for a spark at the coil, put plug in HT lead and earth it somewhere solid, (you might need help here) hold the plug to earth with good insulated pliers and get help to try starting, watch for spark. It might be boring but do all 4 plugs, if 2 of 4 are no good it will not start. If there is sufficient fuel and spark at all the cylinders you might need to recheck the timing. Take your time and be methodical. You probably know what each cylinder needs and how to check it, You've just reached the stage where you can't see the wood for the trees.

Clio_GTT

26-02-2009, 22:26

HT leads in the right order? - 1-3-4-2
petrol making it to the fuel rail? - Take hoses off and crank
Double check the cam timing

dhay14

26-02-2009, 22:52

@ kenny:
very good post there mate, i have done everything youve told me already. starter had a bad earth problem so i have fixed that and now he's more than alive .

all 4 plugs have spark. ive overflood the cylinders variuos times already in the last days, fuel is getting to the rail as i have tried to start it without the fuel line in and it does reach it. i have even put ing on without the return line and it looked like a fountain so meening even the return rout is not blocked.

at one point we spraid starter fluid in the intake and cranked it for so long it did do like he wanted to start but instead it trew a ball of fire from the intake... (i guess we put too much starter fluid in).

like i said i'm quit sure the cam timing is correct but i guess i will need to recheck it.

there is a sensor above the fly.. if that sensor is faulty could that be a problem when starting up? i'm just looking for answers here cus i really dont know anymore...

kenny

27-02-2009, 09:59

Thought I might be telling you what you already knew, but sounds like a timing issue or a sensor connected to that process. Crank sensor maybe. Recheck HT leads are in correct order and cam timing marks as willy lover suggests and make sure no1 is TDC on firing stroke. Set no1 cylinder at top dead centre firing stroke, with rotor arm pointing in correct direction and cam marks are in right place and timing is not 180degrees out.

cliokiz

27-02-2009, 13:41

Sounds like either timing is incorrect (flames out of the inlet) or the crank position sensor on the top of the gearbox is faulty.

dhay14

27-02-2009, 16:00

tanks mates,

i will take a look this weekend. i have barrowed a willy ecu to check too.
i will let ya'll know

dhayrone

MAXIBOY

27-02-2009, 16:44

i thought if the timing sensor failed you would not get a spark...iirc

AndyFielder

27-02-2009, 17:02

does it turn over with the spark plugs out??
Is the oil pump primed?
Can you bump start it?

Clio_GTT

02-03-2009, 16:58

My money is on the leads being arranged wrong

rob-legend

02-03-2009, 19:48

My money is on the leads being arranged wrong

yeah i was gonna say that, it's the simple things you forget, i had this problem with a polo after doing a headgasket, took me nearly a week to figure out why it wouldn't start :oops:

Laine_16v

03-03-2009, 13:24

i thought if the timing sensor failed you would not get a spark...iirc

correct, and you wont get any fuel either.

dhay14

03-03-2009, 22:28

My money is on the leads being arranged wrong

mate you've lost your money :D

i think the leads are in the correct order

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb249/dhay14/IMG00053.jpg[/img]

col

03-03-2009, 23:10

Now this might sound funny, but have you got coolant .........ie water in cause when i rebuilt an engine some time ago 16v.....it wouldnt start. icontacted renault an they said "put water in an it will start".....an guess what it did!

dhay14

03-03-2009, 23:52

hmmm sounds funny

anybody agrees with this?

Justin..

04-03-2009, 00:24

no, mine fired fine with no water, have a vid on youtube to prove!

Justin..

04-03-2009, 00:26

erm, you need the king lead on aswell !! from the coil pack

dhay14

04-03-2009, 00:33

ahahaah

i know justin, i took it of today when i was running the pipes....
good looking there mate, but still nos starting though...

i got a willie ecu so will be trying that.

Justin..

04-03-2009, 00:34

ahhh :oops: glad its not that lol

good luck with the willi ecu! :thumbsup:

dhay14

04-03-2009, 00:42

tnx mate

dhay14

07-03-2009, 18:51

ok it finally started today...

Problem: engine did not get any fuel from the R21 injectors. i switched them for my original valver inhjectors and it started right away.

Question:
1. can i run a R21 map and std injectors for the meanwhile? till i can sort out what is wrong with the R21 injectors?

2.what's the cc on the std inj and the R21 inj?

dhayrone

Justin..

07-03-2009, 18:53

you could run it, thought it may underfuel?

dhay14

07-03-2009, 19:16

ok i ment drive it without boost to the guy who is making my exhaust ect ect.

volymmannen

07-03-2009, 20:32

2 f7p 200cc
R21 300cc

dhay14

08-03-2009, 01:02

ok tx mate