PDA

View Full Version : Hmmm, these look familiar - 2 live and others will remember



J o n
05-08-2008, 12:57
WOW

http://www.clio16valver.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17604&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Mirrors my experience although this person ended up spending a HELL of a lot more than I did... only real difference is she still recommends him. Oh, do those gold pulleys look familiar? Well they should, they are actually my old ones and that's my bracket I never got too.

Cambelt failure on this one, which will be down to poor timing or fitting... so in a panic Ben fits whatever he has lying about and decides to make the best of it. Reason there's no timing cover is because those pulleys are designed incorrectly and dont fit properly. As for the bent valves, well changing the bolts usually helps :roll:

Here's a pic of them on my engine.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y128/JediPimp007/pulleys.bmp

and

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y128/JediPimp007/145-4568_IMG.jpg

Here's a pic on his unsuspecting customer

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y128/JediPimp007/145-4568_IMG.jpg

northy
05-08-2008, 12:58
Didnt u get your money back from your pulleys that u never got ?

McPikie
05-08-2008, 13:02
Doesnt she say on C16v that she designed that mount??

J o n
05-08-2008, 13:05
nope, nothing. Spent a fortune in petrol for wasted journeys when told it was ready, but on arrival to be told there's a problem or he'd put a hole in my sump by jacking the car up on it lol. Never saw a penny of it back, chased it up for 2 years and eventually gave up and sold the car. Not to worry, his business is failing big time, karma wins the day.

Basically I should have known at the time, he greeted me in chaps and a 10 gallon hat at his ranch... alarm bells should have been ringing at that point ;)

J o n
05-08-2008, 13:10
not sure Phil, wouldn't surprise me though as Ben doesn't and cant design shit. My cat cams were custom profiled one offs... until they had to come out to go in my new engine only to find they were off the shelf jobs... similar to when he claimed he'd designed his own ITB's, when in reality he'd been down to AT Power to buy some ITB's, been given a copy of their proposed design then plastered it all over Clio sport claiming it as his own genius, before going very quiet on the subject after being humiliated by someone that works there.

McPikie
05-08-2008, 13:34
Hmmmmm

http://blogs.cisco.com/gov_img/john%20wayne.jpg

http://www.henrysheehan.com/essays/def/eastwood.jpg

??

u33db
05-08-2008, 15:39
Weird, why would you want to mess about making a custom mount?

Surely the sensible option would be to use a front engine mount R19 stylee and leave the vernier cover off i'd have thought.

Doesn't look cheap anyway! :shock:

McPikie
05-08-2008, 15:47
Surely the sensible option would be to use a front engine mount R19 stylee

Wouldnt obviate the need for a top mount

u33db
05-08-2008, 15:48
Why do you say that?

Coops
05-08-2008, 15:50
need to upgrade the rear lower mount to do that to the r19 mount also then, and cant do that without loosing power steering, modding lines or rerouting them etc, lots of work as well

bendee
05-08-2008, 15:59
just read and replied to that.

9.5k engine producing a shocking 200 brake fair enought its a standard inlet but 9.5k is unreal id of stopped after spending 2k to be honest

McPikie
05-08-2008, 16:04
I'd spend £500 max on N/A

After that, I'd be stepping towards a charger or turbo, or selling it for something lots faster, lol

J o n
05-08-2008, 16:41
just read and replied to that.

9.5k engine producing a shocking 200 brake fair enought its a standard inlet but 9.5k is unreal id of stopped after spending 2k to be honest

GDI/Omex can do the same build with cams that will actually run properly on stock plenum for much less than half of that... with an Omex and not a cheapo VEMS either.

2 live
05-08-2008, 18:11
lol......poor girl.


i always said ben was a textbook warrior lol.


i did warn u jon...........but u unwisely chose to ignore my excellent advice lol.


£9.5k. fuk me......i could have built her a monster for 1/2 that lol.



i feel for her...as i did u mate wen urs kept fukkin up

fastest on stock inlet??


so more powerful than all previous builds by ppl who actually know wtf they doin, and quicker than the cliorossa, (on nos) and 1 in front off it??

rob-legend
05-08-2008, 18:34
sounds like a lovely bloke :roll:

cliolord
05-08-2008, 18:34
theJesus, Chill man :lol: I must admit I had one of the dodgy sets of catcams vernier pullies, mine too was bent and I got it from Stan at APD so this I believe is the reason for the cambelt failure. I noticed mine when putting my cambelt on and turning the engine over by hand to check there was no valve to piston contact...The cambelt moved a good 1/3 over the pulley and back towards the head again on a full cam rotation...

Basically, to be brutally honest if you modifying an engine, your going to have a problem or 5! It's just the way it goes normally and it is FECKING annoying at times

J o n
05-08-2008, 20:29
problems are one thing cliolord, but blatant piss taking is another. It's not like it's one isolated incident, he does this on a regular basis.

cliorod
05-08-2008, 21:17
As an engineer of 40 plus years :oops: The last 20 or so involved with 3,4 and 5 axis machining centres ~~ expensive pieces of kit :cry: :cry: The cheapest I got to buy was (for Rolls~Royce) not me :wink: :wink: was £750k.
I am intrigued to know who made the engine mount and how much they were on sale for ~~ I am sure it aint a "ten~bob" job.I am sure "ClioPete" will have similar views.

Bailey_1260
05-08-2008, 22:34
I like the mount regardless of whether it is truely needed or not purely on an aesthetic level.

But from what iv seen and heard of Ben he does seem to be a piss taker, 9.5K wtf?! she could have had the body stripped and resprayed AND a monster engine for that!

and only running 200 BHP, certainly not worth it!

schakal
05-08-2008, 23:45
theJesus, Chill man :lol: I must admit I had one of the dodgy sets of catcams vernier pullies, mine too was bent and I got it from Stan at APD so this I believe is the reason for the cambelt failure. I noticed mine when putting my cambelt on and turning the engine over by hand to check there was no valve to piston contact...The cambelt moved a good 1/3 over the pulley and back towards the head again on a full cam rotation...

Basically, to be brutally honest if you modifying an engine, your going to have a problem or 5! It's just the way it goes normally and it is FECKING annoying at times



brand new pulleys ? how did you not notice they were bent
before/right after fitting them ??

could it be a heat warpage issue somehow ??

stan
06-08-2008, 10:57
no, there was a batch of incorrectly machined pulleys, where the inner face wasnt true, so when you tightened the lil bolts after adjustment, it distorted the running surface.

this was about 12-18months ago.

northy
06-08-2008, 11:50
i hope they replaced them and any costs in damage ok lol. Sounds worse then kentcams

stan
06-08-2008, 12:10
not really worse than Kent, as said it was a dodgy few which were manufactured incorrectly ...not an inherent design fault with ALL which Kent seem to have. I had 2/3 sets that were bad, i think Ben had about the same.

for the record we were advised to check them and return faulty items.

J o n
06-08-2008, 12:19
not really worse than Kent, as said it was a dodgy few which were manufactured incorrectly ...not an inherent design fault with ALL which Kent seem to have. I had 2/3 sets that were bad, i think Ben had about the same.

for the record we were advised to check them and return faulty items.

Difference between Ben and most other tuners is that he lets the customer do the testing. He's that arrogant he'll build the car and send it out without working brakes, oil leaks etc etc.

If those pulleys had faults and this was 12-18 months ago that suggests to me that he used old bolts, the cause of previous cambelt failures for him. He used old bolts on mine, but the engine never lasted long enough to do damage to the head, so had chance to replace those with the new BE lol.

As fancy as the bracket and mount is you'd have at least thought the CNC machining marks would be polished out and all the rough and dull surfaces polished... not like the kid didn't have time. 'x' months to have comonly available parts slung together and mapped by someone else. No wonder the price spirals out of control, he doesn't do anything.

Well, was nice to see my old pulleys after 4 years, make use of old faulty stock I always say ;)

MAXIBOY
06-08-2008, 21:08
could you just cut a standard cam cover back to achieved the same thing though...

Bailey_1260
06-08-2008, 22:19
could you just cut a standard cam cover back to achieved the same thing though...

Probly but it is cast so not as inherenlty strong and i cant remember where the strength veins are. Like i said though, aesthetically a nice bit of kit.

Think the real issue is the Pulleys werent designed properly and the mount was made to cover the mistake. clio girl was taken for a ride and milked for every penny along the way.

MAXIBOY
06-08-2008, 22:27
yeah would just make timing changes on rolling roads easier i was thinking

Clio-Girl
10-08-2008, 17:22
cheers for the massive positive responses guys fair play to you all. :roll:

im happy with my engine and the performance of it, its an absolute animal, and that is really all that counts after the problems ive had.

yes it has a few little things that need sorting (which i may add are nearly done) but Ben did agree to rectify all the problems i just told him not to worry about it as i wasnt waiting another 4 months for the car.

and yes 9500 is a hell of alot of money but whats done is done so theres no use in me crying about it now, i just want to enjoy the car and forget about it.

and also 'thejesus' how do you know that Ben didnt have a batch of those pulleys made, so to go round saying that they are 'yours' is not really right and neither is the mount yours so i suggest you shut up about it now and get over it.

Clio-Girl
10-08-2008, 17:27
and i also want to add 9500 isnt all to ben i have had 2 maps done and the 9500 is what ive spent in total over ayear to get to the spec i have now

drsmith1979
11-08-2008, 06:55
beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so as long as you are happy then im sure everyone on here is happy for you too....... if you didn't have it, didn't want to spend it... then im sure you wouldn't have, so good luck to you and enjoy the car! 8)

northy
11-08-2008, 08:01
Car looked great at FCS

However the effort you had to put in with ben is all too familiar...Im glad its all worked out well now CG.

Whats your next spends then ???

Enjoy the motor!!! 8)

J o n
11-08-2008, 16:58
cheers for the massive positive responses guys fair play to you all. :roll:

im happy with my engine and the performance of it, its an absolute animal, and that is really all that counts after the problems ive had.

yes it has a few little things that need sorting (which i may add are nearly done) but Ben did agree to rectify all the problems i just told him not to worry about it as i wasnt waiting another 4 months for the car.

and yes 9500 is a hell of alot of money but whats done is done so theres no use in me crying about it now, i just want to enjoy the car and forget about it.

and also 'thejesus' how do you know that Ben didnt have a batch of those pulleys made, so to go round saying that they are 'yours' is not really right and neither is the mount yours so i suggest you shut up about it now and get over it.

I think your getting things out of context, no one has slagged the car off, it's making some nice power figures and as you said, you are happy with it. The issue I have and other people who have used Ben's services in the past are all identical, the only difference is how much each of us got ripped off by. This is no doubt how you were played:

You wanted work doing on your car, Ben either heard about this and contacted you, or you'd heard on the grapevine he knew what he was doing with engines (although asking anyone in the motorsport industry and not CS gives you the real answer... again, I fell for this one myself).
Upon speaking to Ben he blinded you with baffling tech talk and you smiled and nodded away hearing things about good flow and big bhp gains. By this point you were almost certain the car was going there, but money hadn't been spoken about to this point...
It comes to talking prices and Ben tells you he can do something different and special for your car to make more power than other tuners (probably slagged GDI off in the process as he's still bitterly jealous that they can afford to pay their staff and are assimilated into a company worth millions). You write him a cheque and he tells you that as the work is all custom or never been done before that it might take a little more time than usual. You agree, the car goes into him.
After several weeks you start to think it's taking a little too long, so contact Ben who's silver tongue persuades you into trusting him and sticking with it.
At this point others have raised their concerns over what is a basic job is turning out to be a nightmare, you defend him none the less...
So what is a 2-3 day job is now turned into weeks or months as clearly 8-9 hour working days are simply not enough to get all the work done in a timely fashion (I mean AWT can be really busy, sometimes there's 2 or even 3 cars there at a time!). The sad reality however is that while your sat at home wondering how your car is, Ben is drinking your money and pissing it up the wall and rolling his lazy ass into work the following afternoon... that's if he even bothers to turn up (he didn't show up til about 11-12 when I picked mine up the first time, which was early for him... I must have woken him up).
Eventually your car comes back and the work is messy and unfinished, things that had been promised are not there/done, but the euphoria of having your car back after all that time and the fact it's a bit quicker than before clouds reality and reasonable thinking.

Question - dod you order oversized pulleys anodised in Williams gold, or were those just put on and you were informed? Have you put one of the old pulleys next to them to compare the size? Have you read the following thread?

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=253756

also see original thread of getting work done to see my specific requirements, like the clear timing bracket/mount as the pulleys had been ordered and spec'd up in the wrong size.

http://cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=61165

You'll notice mini-valver and Ben_P sucking him off and coming to his defense as they were taking their cars there for work... Ben_P had a rather large bill and had to sell his car and charger kit to Ben, who I hear then sold the charger kit to a certain mapping company to pay his long overdue bill.

http://cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=61165

Notice in the original thread as euphoria over rides common sense... I was genuinely happy with the performance and at this stage didn't anticipate having to chase some pulleys, timing cover and finished labour for the next 2 years.

Mini valver waited a year and a half for a lovely one off inlet plenum, which cost more than a decent ITB setup would have, had to buy 2-3 run about cars and went back for final mapping the other week... it's now having the plenum redesigned as it's too thin... kind of like JR's plenum he designed to thin and it broke. A proper motorsport company then redesigned it and all was well.

Anyway, you've said your piece and the discussion has died over at your club, but the people on here that know the history of this and more importantly know Ben's a scam artist have found this both interesting and amusing (not at your expense, more that people are still falling prey and people like yourself dont help by bigging him up). Again for the record, I'm not saying these are literally my pulleys and brackets, I'm saying these are items I paid for and you can clearly see those pulleys on my car from 4 years ago. Dont go getting bent out of shape over it, these pulleys were specifically ordered to MY colour preference and it's strange that he has not put them on any other car since does it not? Don't be so naive into thinking he's ordered another wrong sized batch based on the success of the ones he fitted to my Williams. They never fit and were never used, he's just been biding his time until someone came along that he could manipulate into paying for a very nice, but pointlessly expensive and overengineered piece of alloy.

I'm glad your happy with it, but for £3k you could have gone into GDI at 9:00am anyday of the week and left at 5pm or before with OVER 200bhp, a decent ECU (Omex, not a crappy VEMS), standard cams that allow the car to idle properly and you wouldn't have had any drivability issues at low RPM... far from in fact as it would pull better everywhere. Most of all it would be reliable and the engine standard. Sorry if my post comes across as harsh, but rather than recommend this idiot you should be taking him to court considering the cost, time and fact it's not even finished.

spikey-ben
12-08-2008, 09:59
Guess i wont be taking my car to Ben. Has anyone had any dealings with stan, is he reliable ect? I dont wont this sort of thing happening to me :)

J o n
12-08-2008, 10:51
yeah, no point taking it to (T)AWT, may as well set fire to your engine instead of paying him to **** it up :lol:

Clio-Girl
12-08-2008, 12:01
cheers for the massive positive responses guys fair play to you all. :roll:

im happy with my engine and the performance of it, its an absolute animal, and that is really all that counts after the problems ive had.

yes it has a few little things that need sorting (which i may add are nearly done) but Ben did agree to rectify all the problems i just told him not to worry about it as i wasnt waiting another 4 months for the car.

and yes 9500 is a hell of alot of money but whats done is done so theres no use in me crying about it now, i just want to enjoy the car and forget about it.

and also 'thejesus' how do you know that Ben didnt have a batch of those pulleys made, so to go round saying that they are 'yours' is not really right and neither is the mount yours so i suggest you shut up about it now and get over it.

I think your getting things out of context, no one has slagged the car off, it's making some nice power figures and as you said, you are happy with it. The issue I have and other people who have used Ben's services in the past are all identical, the only difference is how much each of us got ripped off by. This is no doubt how you were played:

You wanted work doing on your car, Ben either heard about this and contacted you, or you'd heard on the grapevine he knew what he was doing with engines (although asking anyone in the motorsport industry and not CS gives you the real answer... again, I fell for this one myself).
Upon speaking to Ben he blinded you with baffling tech talk and you smiled and nodded away hearing things about good flow and big bhp gains. By this point you were almost certain the car was going there, but money hadn't been spoken about to this point...
It comes to talking prices and Ben tells you he can do something different and special for your car to make more power than other tuners (probably slagged GDI off in the process as he's still bitterly jealous that they can afford to pay their staff and are assimilated into a company worth millions). You write him a cheque and he tells you that as the work is all custom or never been done before that it might take a little more time than usual. You agree, the car goes into him.
After several weeks you start to think it's taking a little too long, so contact Ben who's silver tongue persuades you into trusting him and sticking with it.
At this point others have raised their concerns over what is a basic job is turning out to be a nightmare, you defend him none the less...
So what is a 2-3 day job is now turned into weeks or months as clearly 8-9 hour working days are simply not enough to get all the work done in a timely fashion (I mean AWT can be really busy, sometimes there's 2 or even 3 cars there at a time!). The sad reality however is that while your sat at home wondering how your car is, Ben is drinking your money and pissing it up the wall and rolling his lazy ass into work the following afternoon... that's if he even bothers to turn up (he didn't show up til about 11-12 when I picked mine up the first time, which was early for him... I must have woken him up).
Eventually your car comes back and the work is messy and unfinished, things that had been promised are not there/done, but the euphoria of having your car back after all that time and the fact it's a bit quicker than before clouds reality and reasonable thinking.

Question - dod you order oversized pulleys anodised in Williams gold, or were those just put on and you were informed? Have you put one of the old pulleys next to them to compare the size? Have you read the following thread?

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=253756

also see original thread of getting work done to see my specific requirements, like the clear timing bracket/mount as the pulleys had been ordered and spec'd up in the wrong size.

http://cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=61165

You'll notice mini-valver and Ben_P sucking him off and coming to his defense as they were taking their cars there for work... Ben_P had a rather large bill and had to sell his car and charger kit to Ben, who I hear then sold the charger kit to a certain mapping company to pay his long overdue bill.

http://cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=61165

Notice in the original thread as euphoria over rides common sense... I was genuinely happy with the performance and at this stage didn't anticipate having to chase some pulleys, timing cover and finished labour for the next 2 years.

Mini valver waited a year and a half for a lovely one off inlet plenum, which cost more than a decent ITB setup would have, had to buy 2-3 run about cars and went back for final mapping the other week... it's now having the plenum redesigned as it's too thin... kind of like JR's plenum he designed to thin and it broke. A proper motorsport company then redesigned it and all was well.

Anyway, you've said your piece and the discussion has died over at your club, but the people on here that know the history of this and more importantly know Ben's a scam artist have found this both interesting and amusing (not at your expense, more that people are still falling prey and people like yourself dont help by bigging him up). Again for the record, I'm not saying these are literally my pulleys and brackets, I'm saying these are items I paid for and you can clearly see those pulleys on my car from 4 years ago. Dont go getting bent out of shape over it, these pulleys were specifically ordered to MY colour preference and it's strange that he has not put them on any other car since does it not? Don't be so naive into thinking he's ordered another wrong sized batch based on the success of the ones he fitted to my Williams. They never fit and were never used, he's just been biding his time until someone came along that he could manipulate into paying for a very nice, but pointlessly expensive and overengineered piece of alloy.

I'm glad your happy with it, but for £3k you could have gone into GDI at 9:00am anyday of the week and left at 5pm or before with OVER 200bhp, a decent ECU (Omex, not a crappy VEMS), standard cams that allow the car to idle properly and you wouldn't have had any drivability issues at low RPM... far from in fact as it would pull better everywhere. Most of all it would be reliable and the engine standard. Sorry if my post comes across as harsh, but rather than recommend this idiot you should be taking him to court considering the cost, time and fact it's not even finished.

Clio-Girl
12-08-2008, 12:31
well ive written a response twice and it wont let me post it says error

northy
12-08-2008, 12:32
the forum is timing out - copy your post then refresh and paste and it will be fine

J o n
12-08-2008, 12:34
as northy says, failing that dont bother quoting what I wrote as it's massive and is probably causing the SQL debug error. Mine's not timing out for the record though, has been okay today, just the usual problem of making sure you submit your reply within a minute of hitting post or the dreaded error message apears.

Clio-Girl
12-08-2008, 13:01
im just not going to bother tbh im not going to humour you with a response, it seems to me like you just like the conflict and i wont contibute in helping you get yourself off to it

J o n
12-08-2008, 14:23
Oh please, your just seeing your arse because you've been made a fool of by Ben and dont like the thought of spending £9500 for 4 year old parts that are inferior... I'd be pissed off too, but I know which way I'd be directing my anger. The fact you still think highly of Ben shows how naive you are, either that or just too stubborn to accept the truth. Something Ben is totally alien to.

So really there's no conflict, it's a simple case of these pulleys being on my car, an observation which you seem to have a problem with. You chose to believe Ben, the man who has already lied to you constantly, took your money and given you back a poor running average performing car for the mods and money spent. You are failing to see the correlation of them being over sized, in Williams gold and needing the custom mount and bracket as per my original thread on here. I'll have a dig through my inbox later and get you the original emails, again I'm sure you'll refute this information based on... well, Ben's word, which pretty much doesn't count for shit.

Here's another example of Ben's brilliance, AT Power design some ITB's and Ben decides to invest (with shirt buttons?) and takes their designs, posts them up on Clio Sport and claims them as his own. Read on how the drama unfolds and once again Rushworth is shown up as a lying little scum bag that couldn't tune a radio.

Here's 23 pages of bullshit and spin his supposed ITB's:
http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=186085&page=23&highlight=throttle+bodies

I like this quote the best
2) Why has it taken so long............because it has, i dont owe it to anyone to stop work in its entirety just to concentrate on this. Jan was the proposed timescale, its overrun.....but at least some of us are conduction new development programs and not just using whats on the market or pinching other peoples ideas.

Here's Ben's little dose of reality.
http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=289501&highlight=throttle+bodies
After this thread someone cried themselves to sleep on the cock shaped pillow.

If you are really bored check out the 4AGE forum, one couple on there had sent their car to him and it was at the old workshop in Caxton for over a year before going to his new ranch (as that's where cowboys work). It ended up being written off due to the shitty level of work. It had patented BenR headwork, which is so consistent now that you are almost guaranteed a head failure and imminent rebuild!

Either way, the fact is those pulleys dont fit properly, are the wrong size,
in MY choice of colour, NEED a custom mount and bracket making and just look a bit 2004 these days.

Clio-Girl
12-08-2008, 15:16
what a great forum this is, 'if admin' are treating people like this and not letting go, Northy id be so proud :roll:

why are you showing me all bens faults now?? what ****ing difference is it going to make??

my car is sat outside my work now and to me thats all that matters

Taylor
12-08-2008, 15:30
i understand you dont want egg on your face, but surely its better to say what you think and save other ppl the pain,

Clio-Girl
12-08-2008, 15:36
yep ok but doesnt he do this like every other week or something on all the forums??

we all get the message let go for ****sake!

i used angelworks regardless of his preaching when i used to use cliosport, and as ive said my engine is amazing :roll:

northy
12-08-2008, 15:55
Ok Jon - I think we get the message again. I spoke to cliogirl at FCS and told most of what your saying here. But she knows what effort had to be put in to get it there. Not very proffessional.

I dont think jesus is wanting a argument - cause if he is i will have to set our mandy on him...Ive followed this thread and left it running. Ben cannot reply to defend his corner. So Jesus - please keep any comments about tunning specialists to pms.

Like i said - im pleased you have your car back and running as it should.

Winston
12-08-2008, 16:02
Lock?

Clio-Girl
12-08-2008, 16:06
Ok Jon - I think we get the message again. I spoke to cliogirl at FCS and told most of what your saying here. But she knows what effort had to be put in to get it there. Not very proffessional.

I dont think jesus is wanting a argument - cause if he is i will have to set our mandy on him...Ive followed this thread and left it running. Ben cannot reply to defend his corner. So Jesus - please keep any comments about tunning specialists to pms.

Like i said - im pleased you have your car back and running as it should.

thank you Northy, not that he will listen to you.

i know how unproffesional Ben is im not stupid and FCS antics are something me or my partner never want to go through again, but whats done is done.

northy
12-08-2008, 16:21
Well Jesus has got his point across....Thread Locked.

As a side note pm jesus first if u ever need anymore work doing :wink: