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scotte666
19-02-2005, 12:58
hi all im new to the site need some help.i have a williams 3 and recently the steering hasnt felt to solid like the road is telling it where to go no me.also when on the motorway with the steering whell str8 the car likes to drift to the left.i have have heard about column problems but think this is fine as if i move the wheel slightly the wheels turn as well.ive had the tracking looked at they guy said the wheels were all lined up but the toein /toe out settings were wrong would this cause my problem? im sure its not bent chassis either as it was fine a few months ago. sorry for the long post but really need the problem sorted so i can get my handling back as good as it was ......thanks

big hp
19-02-2005, 13:33
Toe in, Toe out wrong means trackings out.


(Taxi on standby)

scotte666
19-02-2005, 15:42
i thought that this was only if the wheels wernt str8 but would this cause my car drifting to the left?and vague steering feel?has any1 got the proper settings for the williams i assume they r different to everyother clio and wanna make sure they set it up right cos im gunna get it done..

Purple
19-02-2005, 15:59
From the report of my last 4-wheel alignment - according the wheel alignment machine's database - the Clio Williams front toe setting range (per wheel) is:-

0degree 05minutes to 0degree 15minute

KingStromba
19-02-2005, 17:14
In order i would do this:

Check all tyres for odd wear. Replace if worn
Check tyre pressures
Get alighnment done (alighnment with cause all sorts of pulls over the road if it is out)

If still a problem, get a mechanic to check the rack and the column. Then get a second and third opinion. Take the concensus of opinion to be true.

2 live
19-02-2005, 17:54
id probly check column first .sounds like the uj at the bottom is on its way....spot of weld will sort it

KingStromba
19-02-2005, 17:57
Nahh if the wheels move as he turns the wheels it will be the tracking. Ijust had mine done to cure massive tramlining.

VIPERONE
19-02-2005, 20:38
nows the time for manual conversion old boy...

scotte666
20-02-2005, 11:28
what is tramlining?

KingStromba
20-02-2005, 12:30
As an example, youre driving along a road, you go to pull out from behind another car to overtake and as your os wheels go over the white lines the camber of the road pulls the car and it lurches quickly right.

Its basically the effect of the tyres following the contours of the road giving a feeling of the car being on 'tram lines' and the effect is that you constantly have to correct the steering.

Tracking problems are one cause. Different tyres also tram line more than others. Generally 195 50 15's will tramline more than 185 55 15's as they are wider. Make of tyre can effect it too.

Small fast front wheel drive cars will probably feel the effect of tramlining problems more than heavy rear wheel drive cars.

2 live
20-02-2005, 13:41
btw....pirelli p6000s are the worst tyre iv ever found for tramlining

scotte666
20-02-2005, 19:42
did u know what tyres i have lol i have the p6000s this sound like the problem i have so although the front wheels r both pointing str8 the toe in toe out can still be adjusted im assuming has any 1 got the proper settings wanna make sure it is set up right.....what tyres do people suggest i thought p6000s were supposed to be good ?

2 live
20-02-2005, 19:51
lol...god im good


lmao

scotte666
20-02-2005, 20:36
what tyre s do u recomend and would i really notice the difference between them?

KingStromba
20-02-2005, 20:46
Get the Michelin Pilot Exalto 2's in 185 55 15.

scotte666
20-02-2005, 20:54
how much r these and also had any1 got the camber settings for the williams?

KingStromba
20-02-2005, 20:56
about £80 to 100 each and no i havnt got the camber setting :D

katbloke
20-02-2005, 23:15
Have taken this data from autodata 2004 this is front wheel info
http://erc.qmuc.ac.uk/cliosport/gallery/full/1108937787__autodata1.jpg

Hope this helps, can get the all four wheel data posted if need be.

scotte666
21-02-2005, 00:03
katbloke what u posted didnt show up anyu chance of pm ing me the link?

2 live
21-02-2005, 11:27
id agree with stromba on the michy PE2s........but personally i use 195/50/15s......feels much more planted to the road, and also gives a bit of a bigger footprint to get traction thru hehe

KingStromba
21-02-2005, 12:09
But are worse in the wet as they have a wider print. What you gain in the dry you lose in the wet. Thats the law of tyres. 185 is the best compromise tyre for both conditions IMO. And as it rains so much in this country and the roads are greasy id go 185 everytime.

2 live
21-02-2005, 12:18
havent noticed any difrence in the wet dry tbh mate.altho the greasy roads arent lettin me get power down as cleanly as id like.

KingStromba
21-02-2005, 13:38
Maybe the foot print isnt big enough to notice a great difference. But wider tyres are always going to be worse in the wet than narrower ones.

2 live
21-02-2005, 14:27
surely that woud depend on tread pattern n water dispersion methods?

is this statement scientifically proven??
lol

KingStromba
21-02-2005, 14:49
Qualifying my statement. If you took two identical tyres. Same make, manufacturing method, pattern, tread etc. But one was narrower (185 v 195), the narrower one would give better wet weater grip.

Purple
21-02-2005, 16:26
My 2 cents on rain tyres.

Tyres with aggressive rain cuts need a bit more width to be effective as their rubber contact patch has been reduced by the grooves. But for more conservative cuts, smaller tyre width should aquaplane less than wider ones at speeds. But at slower speeds, the wider tyres might have the edge with less water build-up.

Also these days, some tyres come with deep rain channels that run the circumference of the tyres. Effectively making them 2 or even 3 skinny tyres running side by side. So, even the super wide tyres with this type of designs are quite tolerant to aquaplaning. But I think they mostly come in sizes 205R16 upwards.

scotte666
21-02-2005, 16:34
so back 2 my question does any1 have the toe in/toe out settings for the williams?

Purple
21-02-2005, 16:55
I posted above.

Acceptable range (per front wheel)
0degee 5minutes to 0degree 15 minutes

KingStromba
21-02-2005, 17:42
There are alot of forces that act on a tyre, its more complex that tyre area = grip. Deformation of tyres can occur circumferentially, radially, axially and torsionally. Aquaplaning is one problem in the wet but tyre physics during of wet weather running involves other forces that have just a great a role.

katbloke
21-02-2005, 18:59
Scotte666, as per pm these are the settings brought up by autodata2004

Toe-In : Degrees-0 degrees 10 minutes- 0 degrees 30 minutes
mm-1 - 3

scotte666
21-02-2005, 20:38
cools cheers mate il get them to set it all up to that then see what happens il get them to check the tyres as well cant really afford new 1's at the moment though

katbloke
21-02-2005, 23:35
the settings given wre with the car unladen and 100% fuel onboard and standard size willy tyres wether that makes a difference, also if tracking is out check for signs of abnormal tyre wear ie scrubbed inner and outer edges of the tread.