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View Full Version : Play in my steering! U-Joint replacement?



McPikie
07-07-2008, 08:22
Hey guys, long time no speak.

Just got me a little RSi to have a play with, and it's got a fair bit of play in the steering. I remember having my valver PAS column welded, but having had a look/feel at the RSi, it seems it's the U-joint that has play in it.

I am thinking the rubber in the U-joint has dissapeared. Am I right in thinking this cannot be welded (due to it needing to move around) so it's just a case of replacing it??

busterhymes
07-07-2008, 11:25
from the postings on here m8 sure you can weld it up sure one of the guys will confirm i know its a def yes for the williams one so dont see any reason why yours cant be done

McPikie
07-07-2008, 13:04
Found this pic

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e15/123maxiboy/415d66f1.jpg

I dont think it is the bit that's welded that has the play. I only felt it "through" the boot, but it felt like the joint on the far left of the pic

:cry:

Allan
07-07-2008, 14:39
dam that pic gets everywhere :D

the valver it went into has been scraped now i think :'(

but it made the world of difference when i put it in ;)

McPikie
08-07-2008, 08:17
anyone?

eternalife
08-07-2008, 10:04
Move the boot up the Column and inspect, should be able to determine where the play is coming from by doing this.

Personally, never heard of the joint you mentioned having play in it.

Check the joint which is shown welded.
Check bolts holding the steering column (undo plastics under the steering wheel and ensure bolts are tight)
Check bolt which links the rack to column
Check track Rod arms and ends.

u33db
08-07-2008, 19:45
It'll be the joint in that picture thats got play - the RSI i got last month was the same.

Too bad you need it fixed now as i'll have my welded one for sale middle of next month as PAS is coming out.

McPikie
17-07-2008, 08:15
OK guys, I've had the boot up and looked............ it's not that joint :cry:

Seems to be passed the welded bit, past the joint thing, and down towards the rack where the play is.

Take it I will be needing a new rack then? Is that an arse of a job to do on an RSi?? Subrame off??

u33db
17-07-2008, 08:33
You can get the rack off with the subframe still on...just need it up on axle stands.

Coops
17-07-2008, 10:59
further investigation required mate, i'd get a mate to turn the steering with car off and on level ground etc, see if the rack is slipping thru the mounts to the subframe, the bushes can wear and play in them will provide same issue, am off up to evouk's on weekend pick up a box, i could pop in if u like, have a nosey

Matty86
17-07-2008, 11:30
could easily be the pinch bolt is not done up tight enough

McPikie
17-07-2008, 12:53
Cheers Coops, didnt think of that

Shook wheel on level ground, 2" of play, no movement of wheels

Will get it on ramp this weekend and have a butchers

white16valver
18-07-2008, 19:32
2" of play!! :shock:

I thought mine was bad! lol

Despite having a new ball joint on one side, when jacked up on just one side the wheel in the air still seems to have play in it side to side but not top to bottom :?

I really don't know what it is as when you try to move just the discs to feel for play you can't feel anything, but there's several mm with the wheels on...

Fecking things :(

busterhymes
18-07-2008, 20:36
2" of play!! :shock:

I thought mine was bad! lol

Despite having a new ball joint on one side, when jacked up on just one side the wheel in the air still seems to have play in it side to side but not top to bottom :?

I really don't know what it is as when you try to move just the discs to feel for play you can't feel anything, but there's several mm with the wheels on...

Fecking things :(

think i have a similar prob to yours got play side to side not top and bottom the play seems to be where the steering arms connect to the rack not sure if you can adjust out the play or if you replace the arms any ideas ???

McPikie
18-07-2008, 21:38
2" of play!! :shock:

I thought mine was bad! lol

Despite having a new ball joint on one side, when jacked up on just one side the wheel in the air still seems to have play in it side to side but not top to bottom :?

I really don't know what it is as when you try to move just the discs to feel for play you can't feel anything, but there's several mm with the wheels on...

Fecking things :(

think i have a similar prob to yours got play side to side not top and bottom the play seems to be where the steering arms connect to the rack not sure if you can adjust out the play or if you replace the arms any ideas ???

New track rod ends mate

eternalife
19-07-2008, 00:32
2" of play!! :shock:

I thought mine was bad! lol

Despite having a new ball joint on one side, when jacked up on just one side the wheel in the air still seems to have play in it side to side but not top to bottom :?

I really don't know what it is as when you try to move just the discs to feel for play you can't feel anything, but there's several mm with the wheels on...

Fecking things :(

think i have a similar prob to yours got play side to side not top and bottom the play seems to be where the steering arms connect to the rack not sure if you can adjust out the play or if you replace the arms any ideas ???

New track rod ends mate

Ends connect to the Hub.
Track Rods / Tie Rods (or whatever else they are known as) connect to the rack.

Undo Gator, whip it back Full lock the wheels and check for play.
There is a ball joint under the gator, if there is play it should be easily visible.

Buy from ECP (comes with the ends also Febi/Bilstein Product).
Approx £38 per side.
Use a stilson wrench to take old one off (can use mole grips but more difficult)
Remember to check length (from old to new) to ensure trackin is reasonably accurate.

busterhymes
19-07-2008, 10:27
2" of play!! :shock:

I thought mine was bad! lol

Despite having a new ball joint on one side, when jacked up on just one side the wheel in the air still seems to have play in it side to side but not top to bottom :?

I really don't know what it is as when you try to move just the discs to feel for play you can't feel anything, but there's several mm with the wheels on...

Fecking things :(

think i have a similar prob to yours got play side to side not top and bottom the play seems to be where the steering arms connect to the rack not sure if you can adjust out the play or if you replace the arms any ideas ???

New track rod ends mate

Ends connect to the Hub.
Track Rods / Tie Rods (or whatever else they are known as) connect to the rack.

Undo Gator, whip it back Full lock the wheels and check for play.
There is a ball joint under the gator, if there is play it should be easily visible.

Buy from ECP (comes with the ends also Febi/Bilstein Product).
Approx £38 per side.
Use a stilson wrench to take old one off (can use mole grips but more difficult)
Remember to check length (from old to new) to ensure trackin is reasonably accurate.

thx for that m8 will have a check today but guessing i will find some play

white16valver
21-07-2008, 09:14
I'll have a go if I'm feeling brave :oops: lol

McPikie
21-07-2008, 13:28
Coops looked at mine over the weekend, bloody arms are moving on the rack, so looks liek rod ends for mine

Felt like far too much play to be ends, but will replace this week

white16valver
21-07-2008, 17:07
If you fancy doing a picture guide, I will be more than appreciative ;) lol

busterhymes
21-07-2008, 17:13
Coops looked at mine over the weekend, bloody arms are moving on the rack, so looks liek rod ends for mine

Felt like far too much play to be ends, but will replace this week


yes be a good guide when i do mine m8 :) :)

white16valver
22-07-2008, 07:55
Had mine up to do my first oil change last night (finally :oops: lol) and had a feel through the gaiter - does feel like the arm's moving but the rack isn't :roll: therefore I think tie rod ends is a good diagnosis :)

Now, if someone could do that picture guide... ;) lol

white16valver
25-07-2008, 21:07
Coops looked at mine over the weekend, bloody arms are moving on the rack, so looks liek rod ends for mine

Felt like far too much play to be ends, but will replace this week
So... that picture guide... ?

;) lol

eternalife
25-07-2008, 21:15
Had mine up to do my first oil change last night (finally :oops: lol) and had a feel through the gaiter - does feel like the arm's moving but the rack isn't :roll: therefore I think tie rod ends is a good diagnosis :)

Now, if someone could do that picture guide... ;) lol

Tie Rods / track Rods mate.
The ends are the part attached to the Hub.
ECP sell the Track Rod and the end as one complete unit.

Dont needs a guide honestly.

Whip the gator back.
Stilson wrench on the bit on the RHS (fat part).
Might need to full lock wheels in order to get enough room / access.
All done from wheel side.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r229/valverflavour/Picture.jpg

white16valver
31-07-2008, 14:19
Cool, thanks for the info :) 8)

When you get the gaitor off, you don't end up with grease or lubricating stuff everywhere do you?

And it's a simple bolt off-bolt on at each end?

That doesn't sound too hard...

Well, bar the fact that it looks like the rod ends are seized solid lol

I'll have to invest in that wrench thing as well!

northy
31-07-2008, 21:57
awful job...just done mine on the 3 and the orginals are loctited on...use a mini blow torch to get them hot and they will undo nice and easy

white16valver
01-08-2008, 13:14
Ooooh - mini blowtorch sounds like fun :twisted: lol


So, it looks like I'll soon be buying:

1 x N/S Track Rod (including the Track Rod End) £38 from ECP
1 x O/S Track Rod (including the Track Rod End) £38 from ECP
1 x Stilson wrench
2 x Steering Rack Gaitors (might as well...)
1 x mini blowtorch :twisted:
1 x tracking set up

Any idea on the best size for the stilson wrenches? Longer for more leverage?

I assume that the Track Rods come with both ends so I'll have a whole new unit from rack to wheel?

And do I need oil or copper grease?

I might vaseline the threads on the TR Ends to stop them rusting lol

Thanks all :oops: :)

white16valver
01-08-2008, 13:17
Oh, and I need to determine whether I have female or male Track Rod Ends?

white16valver
01-08-2008, 13:46
I assume female on the left, male on the right of this pic?

http://www.pdm-racing.com/products/imag/toyota/pdmlnks19.jpg


Thinking about it though, if I'm replacing the whole Track Rod with one that comes with the Ends on it, I won't need to worry about the female/male thing, will I??

u33db
01-08-2008, 14:18
Female is the one with the hole that you put the rod into! lol

white16valver
01-08-2008, 17:46
That's where I've been going wrong all these years :oops: :wink: lol :lol:

white16valver
08-08-2008, 11:37
Just to check, I need these from ECP?

FEBI n/a 600745060 TIE ROD ASSEMBLY LH RENAULT CLIO 90-98
ARM LH COMPLETE WITH ENDS £36.46

FEBI n/a 600745370 TIE ROD ASSEMBLY RH RENAULT CLIO 90-98
ARM RH COMPLETE WITH ENDS £36.46


More bloody money and hassle :roll: but I want to get my steering sorted so it's fun to drive again :(


Also, if I get them and have some attempt at fitting them, is it worth vaseline-ing the track rod end threads to stop them rusting?

white16valver
14-08-2008, 13:33
bump :oops:

u33db
14-08-2008, 17:01
Also, if I get them and have some attempt at fitting them, is it worth vaseline-ing the track rod end threads to stop them rusting?

I wouldn't bother.

Its a clio after all - id' say you'll have more imprortant things to worry about rusting before the track rods need doing again! :lol:

white16valver
29-09-2008, 18:04
Sooooooooooo...

In this pic, posted by stevie b in this thread:

http://www.williamsclio.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28223

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j299/2stis/tca.jpg


... how do you get the gaitor back? Cut the zip tie thing at the rack end?

How do you get the gaitor on the new rod, given that it looks rather snug over the rod and I can't see how it would go on?! (Do the new ones come with the gaitor on already, ready to be zip tied at the rack end?)

Also, as mentioned in another post, if you 'break' the washer getting the rod undone from the rack, I assume the new one has a washer in that will lock into place when done up properly?

Sorry for all the questions :oops:

white16valver
24-12-2008, 12:16
Bump :oops:

Finally trying to get this done over the new year so any answers to the above post would be very much appreciated! Thank you!! :oops: :)

stevie_b
24-12-2008, 13:02
Sorry mate, missed your post first time around - good job you bumped!



... how do you get the gaitor back? Cut the zip tie thing at the rack end?

How do you get the gaitor on the new rod, given that it looks rather snug over the rod and I can't see how it would go on?! (Do the new ones come with the gaitor on already, ready to be zip tied at the rack end?)


Yes, you cut the zip ties. I found it best to cut the zip ties at both ends and take the gaitor completely off. The gaitor then slides off the track rod at the opposite end to the part that connects to the rack, over the wider bit where the track rod ends screw in. It's pretty tight but it does fit over. I didn't get a new one with my new rods but I guess you must be able to buy them somewhere if yours are shot. I found it easier to turn the gaitor inside out and put some washing up liquid in there first to lubricate it and then just gave it a good yank. Refitting is just the reverse - pull the gaitor over whilst its inside out and then it should seat and you can turn it back round to correct side out.


Also, as mentioned in another post, if you 'break' the washer getting the rod undone from the rack, I assume the new one has a washer in that will lock into place when done up properly?

Yes, the washers are not really reusable so just destroy the one on there if you need to to get it off and the new rods should come with brand new washers that 'hook' in once you screw the rods tightly into the rack.

Then just zip tie the gaitor ends back and you're done. Here's mine finished and ready to go back on the car:

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j299/2stis/rack.jpg

white16valver
24-12-2008, 13:09
Sweet! Thank you very much for the help :oops: :) 8)

I'm borrowing the missus's dad's ramps at the place he works, hopefully, so that should make things a lot easier... lol

Will try to get some pictures if we get a chance! :)

katbloke
24-12-2008, 15:52
awful job...just done mine on the 3 and the orginals are loctited on...use a mini blow torch to get them hot and they will undo nice and easy

Did you use ecp or reno ones northy, have heard about track rod end lengths varying

katbloke
24-12-2008, 16:02
Also would it be easier to rip out the whole rack to do and perhaps start a fresh with clean fluid?

andreas395
24-12-2008, 21:33
done mine not long ago not that bad of a job look at this for more info

http://www.williamsclio.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32734&highlight=track+rods

white16valver
10-02-2010, 20:21
Just to check, I need these from ECP?

FEBI n/a 600745060 TIE ROD ASSEMBLY LH RENAULT CLIO 90-98
ARM LH COMPLETE WITH ENDS £36.46

FEBI n/a 600745370 TIE ROD ASSEMBLY RH RENAULT CLIO 90-98
ARM RH COMPLETE WITH ENDS £36.46


More bloody money and hassle :roll: but I want to get my steering sorted so it's fun to drive again :(


Also, if I get them and have some attempt at fitting them, is it worth vaseline-ing the track rod end threads to stop them rusting?

Just thought I'd update this as I was 1000000% sure I'd posted pics of these but couldn't find them when searching just now...

These are the ones I got new from EuroCarParts:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/RSTurboPaul/DSCF9322.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/RSTurboPaul/DSCF9320.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/RSTurboPaul/DSCF9315.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/RSTurboPaul/DSCF9324e.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/RSTurboPaul/DSCF9319e.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/RSTurboPaul/DSCF9316.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/RSTurboPaul/DSCF9317cr.jpg

white16valver
10-02-2010, 20:23
I had to get an extra locking washer sent through as I was missing one, but they sent it for free.

Seems that the part code for it is 600 74 5370 in case anyone needs it!

The red ringed marks differentiate between left and right so be careful taking them out the box - don't get them mixed up lol

I think the 3 dots in an L shape is for left, and the 4 dots in a square is right - but don't quote me on that, I really can't remember for sure!