Strutbracer

[KingStromba]

I have had quite a funny exchange of email with these jokers today.

Ill get them posted up when i get home. My advice - advoid this company. :D


Best bit was when the guy said i had am attitude problem. Moi? :shock:

[Winston]

^lol^

There postage rates suck!!!!



BTW 1/4 miling is easy :roll:

[KingStromba]

Hes just called our forum crappy. :D

[KingStromba]

Ok here is the email exchange (ill edit this and put yesterdays emails in when i get home)
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Hello,

On your website you state that the Williams and 16v lower strut brace are the same item. I wrote to you and asked about fitting previously and you stated that it attaches to the wishbones. Could you please supply accurate information about exactly where the strut brace attaches to on a Williams. I ask because the Williams has different suspension parts to the 16v, with a wider track, and I do not want to purchase the item for it not to fit.

Rob

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Hi

the lower brace fits both 16v models and williams as both cars share the same wishbones

Thanks
Mark Yates

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Hello,

I am assuming that as a supplier of this brace you actually know where it fits to the car? I don’t want to purchase the item unless I know prior to ordering it where it attaches. Please could you supply such information so that I can understand if it is suitable for my car?

Also your web address has no land postal address associated with it? For security reasons, could I please have a postal address or land line telephone number, prior to ordering.

Robert Barrington

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Hi,

I have told you about 3 times already! It fits onto the lower wishbone rear bolts

Of course it is suitable, it will fit all models unless your car doesnt have any wishbones

Dont make things more difficult than they need to be, questioning whether the biggest OMP dealer in the UK is genuine company.

We sell about 100 braces a week off the website, so it is a valid site

We use paypal, the most secure online payment system in the world so you are at minimal risk

Thanks
Mark Yates
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Dear Mark,

Thank you for your email. I’m sure being rude is not the way to attract new business. I had a similar conversation with the countries largest supplier of polyurethane bushes. They swore blind that they would fit to the car, yet a Renault specialist garage completely failed to get them to fit in any way shape or form.

The 16v and Williams wishbones are NOT the same, so it is imperative that I understand where on the car the brace fits. I am testing this product for other members of the UK Williamsclio owners club, and there is a lot of interest in the product from both 16v and Williams owners alike. It would be nice to think that such a large company, as you claim to be, would take the time to help a future customer understand as much as possible about a product before that customer committed to a purchase.


You may well be the largest OMP dealer in the country, but your customer service leads a lot to be desired. As one of the product testers / company endorsers of the UK Williamsclio owners club (currently over 70 Williams cars registered with our club and growing, plus a greater number of 16v’s), I also suggest it may be in your interest to fully answer my questions, if future business from our club is something you would like to receive.

As for paypal being secure the general advice given to me from my bank is to only send money to a company that can provide a genuine UK postal address. As a legitimate company, you of course will be able to provide this?

So, in conclusion I would like to know exactly where on the wishbone the lower strut brace fits. Perhaps you could copy the fitting instructions to me so that I may understand.

Regards

Robert Barrington

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Hi,

we have been selling this lower brace for about 3 years, maybe sold between 60 and 80 of them. Never had a fitting problem with the 16v or 2.0 model.

We dont have any fitted pics on file

Nothing wrong with our customer service just sick of being asked the same question over and over again when I have told you from the start where the brace goes.

If you had looked on our website you can find our address on the info page

Sparco dont issue fitting instructions for this brace as its so easy and straight forward to fit

Thanks
Mark Yates
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Mark,

So you’re sick of answering questions? I thought that’s what customer services was for. Why would I buy a product from such a rude person? I’m sure your not the only person who sells this product. You think you somehow deserve this sale. I asked a simple question, and I expect a polite and accurate reply. All of your emails are being placed on our website for all our members to view, along with my replies. It clearly seems that you have a complete inability to understand that others are less technical than you. You are downgrading the status of your company on an interactive forum with each rude reply you send. I hope you are the boss of this company as I do not think he would be very pleased with your skill at customer service.

A quote from you

‘the lower brace fits both 16v models and Williams as both cars share the same wishbones’

Now I am telling you that the 16v and Williams DO NOT share the same wishbone (Renault Norwich: 01603 628 911 if you would like to speak to the parts department yourself). If you do not even know that the wishbones are different, how am I supposed to believe you that the product fits both cars. The Williams wishbones are longer on account of its wider track.

Can you please also send your UK postal address? I have no intention of sending money to a company that does not advertise its UK location. Saying it is on the site is not good enough, as I cant see it. Please SEND IT.

Robert Barrington

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Hi

You have got a serious attitude problem mate, if you wanna properly then talk calm down and we can go through it again

Thanks
Mark Yates
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Mark,

Demon Tweaks sell the same brace for £37 plus vat, which is cheaper than you. They have a uk postal address, and when I phoned up the sales man stated exactly how to fit it and what tools I needed.

Thanks for your help, but as you are obviously not a company that requires my business, I shall make a post on our club forum and recommend that nobody has dealings with you due to your poor customer services and the fact that you clearly have a lot of complaints / returns, which is why you do not state a UK postal address.

Robert Barrington

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Hi,

Please please please get your facts right before trying to reply with smart arse comments saying Tweeks are cheaper! What a load of rubbish

Tweeks sell this brace for £33.79 plus vat and delivery, total is £48.70

Our price is £41.75 all in so much cheaper, so do your sums next time Rob!!!

Look at our info page where an address is stated for our office. Can you not read or too lazy to look for it?

Post on your small crappy forum, see if I give a crap

Thanks
Mark Yates
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Hello,

Thanks for the reply. Glad to see your company is showing its true very unprofessional colours.

Why you have a complete inability to write out your address on an email at a customers request is beyond me. I assume you know it? How you have managed to survive in business which such a limited understanding of the cars you sell parts for and the installation of those parts is beyond me. I have stated a number of times that the wishbones are not the same on the 16v and the Williams, yet you refuse to answer my questions regarding the fitment of the strut brace you sell.

I shall be sending a copy of these emails to both Sparco and OMP managing directors to let them know the good work that some of their distributors are doing to slurry their good name. I shall also be cutting and pasting this email exchange to:

www.cliosport.net

www.saxosport.net

www.106ralley.co.uk

www.performancegti.com

www.renaultsportsclub.co.uk

and any other large forums I come across on a web search. I am sure they will be interested in making future purchases knowing that you feel their clubs are ‘crappy’.

Regards

Robert barrington

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Rob

we have just got off on the wrong foot here, got a bit out of hand, nothing personal is needed here

Thanks
Mark Yates
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Mark,


Well maybe you could play the role of a good customer service representative and find out for me some exact fitting instructions and send me your UK postal address via email.


Regards

Robert Barrington


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Hi,

if your posting on my website please get the URL right, it is www.106rallye.co.uk not 106ralley

why do you keep carrying on, just go and get ripped off from Tweeks. Seen as they have given you so much info you should be sorted now.

I expected a reply about the price???


Thanks
Mark Yates
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Mark,


Its not about being ripped off, its about getting good customer service. I don’t just want a product, I want to know the person selling it to me knows what he is talking about. Ill say it one more time. The Williams and 16V wishbones are NOT the same part. You are very rude. Do you really thing that OMP and Sparco would like to know that they have companies selling their products that could give their company a bad name.

If you own 106ralley.co.uk, you will know only too well how quickly word spreads and companies can be made or broken on internet forums. I have asked you for two simple things.

1. A UK postal address
2. Precise fitting instruction for a Clio Williams lower strut brace.

Are you able to supply these things?


Regards

Robert Barrington

P.S. Your price is incorrect. I have just phone Demon Tweeks


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Hi

Our office address is

Strutbracer
2nd floor
38-40 Bank Street
Rawtenstall
Rossendale
Lancs
BB4 8EG


Thanks
Mark Yates

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Mark,


Fitting instructions? I assume you will email Sparco and ask them for such items?


Robert Barrington

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Hi

Sparco do not issue fitting instructions for this part number

why are you asking for it if you have all the info you needed off Tweeks??


Thanks
Mark Yates
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Mark,


Tweeks told me how to fit a WILLIAMS Strut brace to a WILLIAMS. You say the same part will fit two different cars with different wishbones. I would like you to explain how this can be?


Robert Barrington

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[northy]

thats ace ! Im going to order one now ! :D

[KingStromba]

sales@strutbracer.co.uk


If anyone wants to ask any further questions.


:D

[northy]

shit - i really hope the wishbones are differant now Rob.

[KingStromba]

Matt brown says they are too.

[FlamingMonkey]

haha he does seem to be getting touchy over your emails, you sure you haven't edited your replies...lol

[Martin]

LOL!

[KingStromba]

original emails sent to Northy for verification :D

[FlamingMonkey]

hehe rawtenstall is not far from me

[northy]

looks verified to me guys.

Debottomley has one 'never fitted' i will get hold of that this weekend as see if it fits....roll on the weekend !

[Slithers]

Ive dealt with strutbracer before when i had me 205, didnt have any probs with them tbh.

Product arrived in 2 days iirc as promised and fit perfectly.

[Winston]

What an arse .....sure they don't go between the wishbones lol

Looking fo pics as we speak :D

[Slithers]

Actually come to think of it it is possible that the lower strut brace could fit both williams and valver, as it doesn't connect to both connections on the wishbone/subframe end, its a single connection aint it?.

And as the subframes are the same IIRC it is quite fesible that the lower strut brace could connect to the same point over 1 point of each wishbone be it on a williams or a valver.

[Andyvalver]

Lol thats class. Hope your right about the wishbones he he

[Enid]

I don't understand why he was getting so touchy? You asked fair questions and didn't once insult him or appear agressive, so really he had no need to come out with the responses he did.

[Winston]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y1/Winston16V/Subframe02.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y1/Winston16V/Subframe03.jpg

See

Where does it go...it can't fit between the wishbones, the subframes in the way lol

[KingStromba]

Hang on, if it attatches to the wishbones it will move up and down? That cant be right :shock:

[Slithers]

Is it possiblt it goes underneath the frame?

[Winston]

IT CAN'T FIT BETWEEN THE WISHBONES

[KingStromba]

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y240/King_Stromba/Subframe04.jpg


Like this maybe?

[Smokey McPot]

Have you thought of becoming a techincal designer for cars.....you designs are excellent :p

comedy email though :D nicely done.

[Slithers]

Apparently all lower strutbraces have to run underneath the frame.

Still doesn't really answer the question of em being the same product

[northy]

i know they fit under the subframe guys....and it will have to piviot with the wishbones.....


So basically what the brace does is clamp the wishbones together to eliminate movement ???? MMMmmm dont like the idea of that.

http://www.strutbracer.co.uk/images/renault/detailed/03661INF.jpg

[KingStromba]

What if it just clamped the subframe together by attatching on the hinge of the wishbone. Then there would be no movement.

[Slithers]

Right from the pics ive seen of other lower braces the photo of the brace must be a vertical shot and it has 2 raised connections on either end.

I think the photo is a decieving picture of the brace it looks like its a striagh bar but i wouldn't mind betting its slightly curved.

I wouldn't mind betting that the brace would fit both valver and williams.

[northy]

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y107/northy_com/strutbrace.jpg

heehee - you get the idea.

[Slithers]

Fanks norfy, i was beginning to get brain drain then

[northy]

Well give me till saturday and i will see if darren will let me trial fit his.

But surley clamping the wishbones carnt be good ?

[KingStromba]

It says it fits to the 'lower wishbone rear bolts'

[Winston]

My answer is .....don't buy one the willy boys have stiffer subframes anyway :roll:

I don't have clue where that would fit

and I don't care lol ...got enuff kinks in the roof from coilovers.

[northy]

well there is no upper wishbone...so the lower rear mounts are to the subframe.

I doubt its long enough to reach to the wishbone to hub join.

Do u recon the ground clearance is reduced....?

[Slithers]

Well give me till saturday and i will see if darren will let me trial fit his.

But surley clamping the wishbones carnt be good ?

Theyre prob designed for track usage mainly

[KingStromba]

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y240/King_Stromba/Strutbracer1.jpg

[Slithers]

well there is no upper wishbone...so the lower rear mounts are to the subframe.

I doubt its long enough to reach to the wishbone to hub join.

Do u recon the ground clearance is reduced....?

Dya think it could be to make spring rebound more constant between the 2 springs so it lessens the chance of bottoming out on one single side?

[northy]

MMM i recon we should create a new area for 'who can draw the best picture' nice bit of copyin there rob. :P

so u recon it fits there....

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y1/Winston16V/Subframe03.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y107/northy_com/Untitled-1copy.jpg

dont see how it can tbh.

[lagerlout1]

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y240/King_Stromba/Strutbracer1.jpg

That looks better (nice drawing)... would give added rigidity to the subframe.... but I can't imagine they flex a great deal anyway - surely most of the impact movement is absorbed by the suspension assembly. :? Thus the bar would only help if the suspension has reached the end of it's travel?? Apologies if thats BS, I didn't even know you could get a lower strut brace until about 10 minutes ago... :oops:

Ok if you track your car a lot I guess...

[KingStromba]

Maybe thats why the Willy subframe is stiffer like Winston said.

[lagerlout1]

Hmmm..... would the brace not be better fitted here?? The sub frame would be weaker hear imho....



http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/lagerlout1/Subframe03rear.jpg

[northy]

Hey nice picture...your leading the contest now.

so it could go on the front of the wishbones...(nearest the front bumper)

Mmmm - we really need to get one fitted to actually see. If were wrong...hell there are 3 differance strut brace concepts here...lets sell them as williamscliosport.

[KingStromba]

Deffo goes on rear wishbone bolts (whatever that means) according to guy at strutbracer.

[Swervin_Mervin]

I reckon lagerlout's is looking the best option. Will increase torsional rigidity the most.

What would be even better is a X framed brace across all 4 corners

[Winston]

It will deffo not link the 2 wishbones ......Theres no way.... look at how the subframe holds them.

The sump sits in the subframe ....so it has to go underneth

Im sure someone said it has something to do with the arb side

:? :? :? :? :? :? :roll:

[lagerlout1]

It will deffo not link the 2 wishbones ......Theres no way.... look at how the subframe holds them.

The sump sits in the subframe ....so it has to go underneth

Im sure someone said it has something to do with the arb side

:? :? :? :? :? :? :roll:

That's what I thought.... looking at the brace, and looking at how the wishbones are attatched to the frame.... just doesn't seem to go. In fact, from those pictures, I can't tell where the ****ing thing is supposed to go!! :? :? :?

[Winston]

BTW ....The pictures of a valver subframe with williams wishbones and ARB

[Mark_Ritchspeed]

I wonder how much flex there is at that point in the subframe? I think I may make one and see if it makes any difference to the handling.

[Lunner]

Northy your option can't work, because with the wishbones liek tgat when tehy move up they move outwards, fi you see what i mean, so if one wheel went up the otherside would go down, wouldn't allow both wheels to raise up at teh same time

[Slithers]

Northy your option can't work, because with the wishbones liek tgat when tehy move up they move outwards, fi you see what i mean, so if one wheel went up the otherside would go down, wouldn't allow both wheels to raise up at teh same time

Maybe thats the idea of em for track useage, so you get more griip when car starts to lean as you go into a corner.

[summeh]

195/55's northy ? :shock:

[WeZ01y]

Wrong tyres in the diagram fella! :P

[KingStromba]

There is absolutely no way this would fit under the subframe to the rear wishbone bolt on mine as the down pipe would get in the way.

[Slithers]

There is absolutely no way this would fit under the subframe to the rear wishbone bolt on mine as the down pipe would get in the way.

Its probably a bar thats got a gradient on it, either that or where it connects has 2 downward angled sections that join into the main brace.

[Purple]

Perhaps the brace is to be attached to the subframe to reduce subframe flexing. But seeing as how well the frame is built, there's not much more a skinny little brace will help. Think a top of strut brace would be more effective in reducing chassis flexing.

[KingStromba]

Im thinking the same purplesun. Seems a bit of a waste of time to me, but i could be wrong.

Will wait for Mark to report back on his DIY jobby

[Purple]

BTW, seeing a photo of a blue-painted Williams subframe lying on someone's living room floor begs the important question. Are you going to polish it with Meguirs or AutoGlym?? :D

PS: Is that the correct colour?

[BRUN]

the rear wishbone bolts are where it connects to the subframe, the steering rack side, as i understand it...

[Zollo]

Ha ha, comedy exchange of emails. Very amusing :D

...sorry, nothing useful to add. :oops:

[Slithers]

Perhaps the brace is to be attached to the subframe to reduce subframe flexing. But seeing as how well the frame is built, there's not much more a skinny little brace will help. Think a top of strut brace would be more effective in reducing chassis flexing.

You'd be surprised. Metals strength lies in the shape its formed into.

[Swervin_Mervin]

There'll be a lot of flexing in that frame given the vast expanse of nothing in the middle.

[Purple]

Perhaps the brace is to be attached to the subframe to reduce subframe flexing. But seeing as how well the frame is built, there's not much more a skinny little brace will help. Think a top of strut brace would be more effective in reducing chassis flexing.

You'd be surprised. Metals strength lies in the shape its formed into.

Agree. Most strut bar tend to have round cross-section (possibly with internal buttresses). But this one looks like a rectangular cross-section to me, which should be fairly weak on the vertical axis. Applied across the thick subframe would be less useful than on the top of the suspension struts.

[Slithers]

Perhaps the brace is to be attached to the subframe to reduce subframe flexing. But seeing as how well the frame is built, there's not much more a skinny little brace will help. Think a top of strut brace would be more effective in reducing chassis flexing.

You'd be surprised. Metals strength lies in the shape its formed into.

Agree. Most strut bar tend to have round cross-section (possibly with internal buttresses). But this one looks like a rectangular cross-section to me, which should be fairly weak on the vertical axis. Applied across the thick subframe would be less useful than on the top of the suspension struts.

It could have an internal section that runs down the centre of the brace that is perpendicular to the horizontal faces of the bar, so to create an enclosed I beam section, in which case it would be strong as fook.

Mind you it could well have not internal bar whatsoever, it would still be pretty strong its the bolt connections to the frame or wishbones that would worry me.

[Rach No1GR]

I know of this company. The story....

My friend bought a strutbrace off them on ebay for a 5gtt, when it eventually arrived it was all scratched up like someone had been throwing it around the room before wrapping it up and posting it.

So naturally she returned it and asked for her money back.

This Mark Yates got stroppy with her on email just the same and refused to refund her money saying she had damaged the strut brace.

So she put in a complaint via paypal.

In the meantime we went FCS and went to find there stand, we found Mark and confronted him, he was still blaming her and refusing to refund it and was stuttering when we asked questions he couldnt answer.

Then the boss came over a chap called Rob and agreed to give her cash back there and then and apologised for any inconvenience caused, my advice dont deal with Mark ask to deal with Rob instead.

[Enid]

I know of this company. The story....

My friend bought a strutbrace off them on ebay for a 5gtt, when it eventually arrived it was all scratched up like someone had been throwing it around the room before wrapping it up and posting it.

So naturally she returned it and asked for her money back.

This Mark Yates got stroppy with her on email just the same and refused to refund her money saying she had damaged the strut brace.

So she put in a complaint via paypal.

In the meantime we went FCS and went to find there stand, we found Mark and confronted him, he was still blaming her and refusing to refund it and was stuttering when we asked questions he couldnt answer.

Then the boss came over a chap called Rob and agreed to give her cash back there and then and apologised for any inconvenience caused, my advice dont deal with Mark ask to deal with Rob instead.

Mark sounds like a real nice guy!, hardly a great ambasador to the company :roll:

[KingStromba]

All i want to know is where it fits :x


Cant he find out? :roll:

[Winston]

If we can't work it out......how the **** is he ment to lol

[KingStromba]

We cant evn work it out and we hav a pic of a subframe in front of us :shock:


****ing good mechanics wed make :roll:

[lagerlout1]

Well I'm an electrical engineer by trade, so that's my excuse. I reckon if we actually had one we would be able to work it out. maybe. lol.

Either way, you shouldn't have to buy something to find out if it fits or not. The company supplying the item should know!!

[Winston]

Bump...any answers

Were all thick :shock: :roll:

http://www.renaultsportsclub.co.uk/forum_3403/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=33731

[KingStromba]

Im in :wink:

[Winston]

lol 8)

How you not band from there :shock:

[KingStromba]

Its so boring i could never be bothered to post :D

[Martin]

LOL!

[Andyvalver]

Chris has replied :shock:

[Winston]

Drill it :shock: :shock: ......**** that lol

[Swervin_Mervin]

So basically you have to hack away at the sub frame, thus weakening it? Seems fvcking pointless to me. A cross braced subframe would be far stronger anyway.

[Andyvalver]

You shouldt have to hack/drill anything to fit a strut brace. ****in cowboy :roll:

[Winston]

How far up his own arse :roll:

[KingStromba]

http://www.renaultsportsclub.co.uk/forum_3403/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=33731

Updated :D

[Andyvalver]

Lol

[Dilusi]

PMSL at all these threads. WTF is the point of fitting a lower strut if you've got to compromise the strength of the sub frame back hacking big chunks out of it?

[KingStromba]

Strutbracer = Joke Company

[katbloke]

At the end of the day the stiffer you make one part of a car the weeker another part becomes imo, why bother with upper and lower braces the cars fine as is itll end up shaking itself to bits i can understand for track/rally use but not for everyday road use i asked the question to the old owner of my Willy2 and he said if it aint broke blah blah spend your money on new joints/bushes etc or send it to me if ya have too much:)