View Full Version : Final stage of headbolt tightening...
Not exactly easy eh? They say 108 degrees but fuk me thats tight! Plus its hard to measure precisely...Do you have to be spot on? I tried my best but I am sure I am out on a couple, AND the big torx bit snapped FFS! Still got to tighten 3...
MatBrown
01-03-2008, 18:55
AND the big torx bit snapped FFS!
Told you! :P
Mat.
AND the big torx bit snapped FFS!
Told you! :P
Mat.
Indeed you did!!! lol!
Halfrauds gave me a new one, no questions asked thankfully.
Swervin_Mervin
01-03-2008, 19:06
:P
Always best to have a few when it comes to hex/torx bits I reckon.
:P
Always best to have a few when it comes to hex/torx bits I reckon.
Hehe, well if you decide to fix yer HG solo, you'll have the same fun as me!
So...I am on the last stage of headbolt tightening, the torx bit snaps half way through it all abd its too dark to finish today, but about 5 still need tightening, will this adversely affect it? Should I go out and do em now?
Justin..
01-03-2008, 19:57
i would do them all personally
I would too! I dont know how you snapped the bit! I've done it 3 times with the same bit now and they've been fine :P you dont have to be bang on 108 but you only have 3 degreeses either way of it!
Well problem is I am not certain I was spot on or -/+ 3 either. I cant loosen them now can I? They will have stretched now. It's pitch black out there right now, I have no extra lighting and the bonnet is on.
Damn it!
Right, well **** this. Just went out in pitch black to tighten the one that snapped previous bit. Guess what? It snapped STRAIGHT AWAY. Nothing I can do now, back to Halfords in morning again.
Justin..
01-03-2008, 20:47
:(
I THINK I got that bolt to about 90 degrees. Will that be enough? I mean, snapping two very chunky torx bits isn't exactly light tightening on my part is it? This is just going from bad to worse!
Are you using a long torn bit? Or a short one?
First one:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w102/barneywobba/My%2016V/DSC00336.jpg
Second:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w102/barneywobba/My%2016V/DSC00339.jpg
They are about an inch out of the 3/8 housing bit. Couldn't see any other type in Halfords.
there must be a reason for the bolt to give you
that much grief mate .
you sure all the bolt holes on the b/e were clean
and free of crap ??
there must be a reason for the bolt to give you
that much grief mate .
you sure all the bolt holes on the b/e were clean
and free of crap ??
I cleaned them thoroughly last week and gave them a little going over again today prior to putting the head back on. There was a lot of shit in them, but they were good after I cleaned up.
saying that i managed to snap 4 halfords torx bits of the same size
removing cam carrier bolts on mine a while back .
it might be a good idea to get some stronger ones ??
8V F type head bolts FTW !!! 8)
Wondering where I can get ones that are tougher, like asap!
I am sure I have the degrees very close to 100 on the trouble bolt. I will get another halfords one tomorrow, tighten the rest in order and risk it. If anotehr bit snaps, I will be forced to order another goddam headbolt set and this time I will get industrial strength torx bit on mail order.
Usually the Halford Profesional range is very good as they're made by Draper (Expert range) but I to have gone thru x3 T40's this week trying to get a set of ruddy cams out an F7 that someone has put in way too tight :twisted:
Are you using an angle torque guide Wobba or are you guessing the 108 - 90 degrees? I also use a 1m breaker bar to do the final angle stages as it makes it easier for you to apply a constant pressure whilst giving you a much better mechanical advantage. You can buy em for all of £10 ;)
I have created a measurer on a piece of paper, having calculated 51 and 108 degrees -/+3. The trouble is, it is very hard to do it exactly as it's so tight I have to stop and cant, as you say with a breaker bar, apply constant pressure.
Not sure what to do now.
I have been virtually cleaned out of cash already this month and only just been paid, the car being a major factor. I simply cant keep forking out for tools and bolts etc. I have 5 more to tighten today, and if another torx bit snaps I dunno what I will do.
What I really wanna know is: How exact is exact? I know its a major part of the head refitting, but how can you get something so tight to such a perfect angle? On ten bolts?
Has anyone run an engine where the angle was slighty out on a couple of bolts ? I guess it blows up. Again.
It has to be pretty exact mate that's why they say you need to angle tighten them all to within +/-3 degrees. The head needs to be tightened down equally/sealed correctly so that it doesn't pinch the gasket in one place more than another as that would cause the gasket to fail later down the line. That's why you use a proper angle tool that shows you the basic clock points aswell as the interim figures.
How big is the bar you're using? If it's fairly small it won't be helping as you need to go slow and constant when doing this to avoid damaging tools and parts. Also, is the engine sliding about on a floor or is it in the bay now? If it's moving around again, it won't be doing you any favors.
The engine is in the bay, it's secure as it can be so it does not move. The bar I am using isn't the best. I am thinking maybe get them all on now, after getting a new bit and an angle measurer in a minute. Stick the rest on, fix the car in general over the next week or two and then at next payday in 4 weeks take the camcover off, take the bolts out and redo them with new ones.
For me cost is becomeing a major issue. Think I'll have to start selling body organs soon :(
I use a snap on 3/8" T55 for the head bolts on mine, with 1/2" 210nm clarke torque wrench from machine mart (15quid). Did the job for mine, but you can get longer "breaker bars" which would be better suited.
If you don't have the right tools for the job then your making it a lot harder... Are you sure you haven't gone over the 108 degrees? Unfortunately my angle gauge broke otherwise you could borrow it.
I am pretty sure I havn't gone over 108, the bolt is very tight though and I think there may be slight differences in the depth of each bolt due to torque irregularities...down to the special grease they gave me to put on the bolt threads.
Off to halfords again. I'll be back in about 40 mins! Wish me luck :(
:lol: I've just noticed the wrench you are using in the pic to tighten those bolts up to 108 degrees mate... thats ****ing tiny, you will never do it with that, lol, no wonder you are snapping things and having problems. Damnit if I wasn't so busy today I'd pop round with my gear and do it for you. :oops:
lol, I'll try and get another one in a minute. This seriously hurts my bank balance, max overdraft yet again!
i have to say ive built many of these engines and ive never snapped one torx bit for head bolts. I think the lesson is: dont buy from halfords.
also, are you using a 1/2" bit, or 3/8's? if its 3/8's then thats probably why its snapping.
If you cant remember which you've tightened, or by how much, then the only real way is to fit another set of bolts.
Go to machine mart and buy a long breaker bar or torque wrench. Careful of the swivel head breaker bars that halfrauds do as they snap when you stand on them for hub nuts (not that your supposed to, lol)
also, are you using a 1/2" bit, or 3/8's? if its 3/8's then thats probably why its snapping.
Looks like a 1/2" in the pic, don't think halfrauds do a 3/8" T55 bit. Only reason I use a 3/8" T55 snap on bit in mine is because the 1/2" bit I had didn't fit in the holes (unknown make).
nightmare buddy, hope you get it sorted :)
i had simular problems with the bolts on my cambelt cover, broke 3 bits i think :cry:
and damn their hard to get to with the engine in the bay
got em out and replaced them with regular bolts, however i appreciate you cant really do that with the head bolts......
good luck
:toolbox:
MatBrown
02-03-2008, 13:05
also, are you using a 1/2" bit, or 3/8's? if its 3/8's then thats probably why its snapping.
Looks like a 1/2" in the pic, don't think halfrauds do a 3/8" T55 bit. Only reason I use a 3/8" T55 snap on bit in mine is because the 1/2" bit I had didn't fit in the holes (unknown make).
I use a 3/8" T55 as that what comes in the 150 piece kit.
Mat.
donsrno1
02-03-2008, 13:17
I think the lesson is: dont buy from halfords.
To be fair their professional range is actually really good quality, probably with the exception of their torx bits as I've snapped a few of them myself as well.
Ok, I am back from Halfrods. They gave me their last T55 Torx bit, and it is a 3/8. They also suggested I go to Machine Mart lol. There is one fairly nearby, so I'll go get a bigger breaker bar and see if they have an angle measurer as well.
I am going to have to buy another set of headbolts. End of.
On a brighter side: I finally managed to track down a copy of Performance Car Issue 1! Yay! Ironically at the nearest newsagent to me lol...after marching round the entire town looking for one...
Thanks for the help guys, again. I think if I do this again I could do it a lot faster next time.
Swervin_Mervin
02-03-2008, 13:36
I've snapped numerous Halfords and Draper torx/hex bits.
Bit shite IMO.
Ive Never Snapped any either doing a headbolt up, Guess theres time to come for that! Use a big 1/2 breaker bar and torx bit, keep the breaker bar down close to the head, i.e. no extension bars as when you use extension bars you can end up exerting a twisting force on the torx bit causing them to round off or snap. Shouldnt be that tight i wouldnt have thought!
Ok, done the last bolts and the good news they were fine, and the bit didn't snap! Got them all spot on. I will maintain a constant vigil on the problem bolt till I can get new headbolts. I wont be running the car for two weeks probably anyway...so all SHOULD be well.
As I said, they are on now. Valve cover or and torued up, cambelt tensioner pulley on, exhasut manifold done up, with started motor mount bracket done (pain in the arse!). Awaiting a couple of goodies from Mr Brown and GDF them I am good to go for a full refitting. It is a lot easier putting stuff back on than taking off!
Wont take me long :D
lewis_willy2
02-03-2008, 19:33
sounds like a mare m8!
i h8 the head tightening sequence why cant it just be in Nm.
is there a conversion for the degrees >Nm
no, its a completely different method, did you grease up the bolts and washers?
The best angle gauge i've used is a draper one, costs about £3, and the outer plastic bit spins, so just hold that still and as you turn the wrench it turns the middle bit, if that makes any sense, you did yours in a car, imagine trying to do it on your own on an engine stand, trying to hold it with one hand and tighten with the other
imagine trying to do it on your own on an engine stand, trying to hold it with one hand and tighten with the other
That's how I did mine, had to put the stand up against the wall though, lol :D
imagine trying to do it on your own on an engine stand, trying to hold it with one hand and tighten with the other
That's how I did mine, had to put the stand up against the wall though, lol :D
Hah! At least you guys have the tools! I did mine with just a toothpick!
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