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View Full Version : Head is off! Finally...now whats wrong?



Wobba
19-02-2008, 14:10
Ok! Yay! I took the head off and stuff. My my, what a mess underneath! No obvious blown HG BUUT it could just be shit bolts or it's just old... can you tell me?

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w102/barneywobba/DSC00300.jpg

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w102/barneywobba/DSC00298.jpg

Any advice at this stage is welcome as it's all a bit scarey now...how do I clean the pistons etc? The waterways look a bit of a mess as well, and whats went wrong with the HG? The bolts were a mess when I took them out, clearly old old items covered in muck.

Wobba
19-02-2008, 15:48
The valves are messy as hell too I think. Quoted £200 for skim and valve clean up.

Justin..
19-02-2008, 15:53
make sure you put new headblots in!


erm, looks to have failed on the bottom left hand sideof the picture. and receipts/paperwork to show any head gasket work recently? could have been poor workman ship.

u33db
19-02-2008, 15:57
Doesn't look to bad TBH - mine was worse!

Is that a kind of slimey substance on the first piston? Its possible that might just be gunk thats fallen out of the waterway when you pulled the head off...HG looks a bit wet which points to that.

You shouldn't *need* to do a skim if there is no history of over heating...i'm probably no going to mine anyway.

AndyFielder
19-02-2008, 16:03
get the water out, WD40 on it all stop it rusting, i would get a knife blade to clean the block flat, i would smear grease on the bores and put each piston in turn to the top, clean that up with wire wool and a scraper/blade, get the carbon off. When you put the piston down the grease will stop the bits gettting into anywere they shouldnt.

Get the sump off check for water, bent conrods etc.

Get the head skimmed. i would get the carbon off the valves etc with wire wool, if it were me i would take them out in a leathe/drill on slow speed and spin a cloth with carb cleaner on it... then get a valve lapping kit and re grid the valves as you put them in ... NUMBER THEM WHEN YOU TAKE THEM OUT.

thats it.. a lot of elbow grease, but disassembling the head isnt too hard if you take it slow with the haynes the first few times you need only pay for the skimming, headbolts and gasket.

Andy

Wobba
19-02-2008, 16:12
Hehe, few more weeks work then! Yay.

Heres a pic of the valves...a bit messy :(

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w102/barneywobba/My%2016V/DSC00308.jpg

Lunner
19-02-2008, 16:15
Don't lap them in get the value seats re-cut and valves machined if you wanna do that

stan
19-02-2008, 16:51
its always good to lap them in after re-cuts anyway....not all machines are accurate enough to make it not necessary.

make sure you dont get any crap in the oil ways.

Wobba
19-02-2008, 16:59
The problem for me here is cost. I have had the car on stands for 5 weeks or so and I cant get time off work to do anything much, except today and I lied, to get the time off.

So far, almost every bolt has been an epic task to get off, or work around, for this reason I diont think anyone has worked seriously on this car in a very long time.

I wil lstart my research on valve maintenance soon, but I simply can't afford to spend ages on it :(

At leadt with the head out I can spend time at night indoors working on it...

number1
19-02-2008, 17:04
Mine went in exactly the same place almost, but mine didnt pressurise, just leaked out the back of the block, stop leak got me on for another 6 months until my 2ltr was ready. that head definatley needs a skim, id just give all the valves a good lap in if your on a budget, i use blue tissue roll when cleaning the face up, all this pistons down half way, tissue in on top the pistons and put small bits of tissue in the oilways, just make sure they dont fall in too far so that you cant get em out!, i wouldnt bother pulling the sump off, it's not let go that bad. just drop the oil out and put a new filter on with maybe some engine flush for the first startup

Dave

AndyFielder
19-02-2008, 17:17
if you get it to me i can do some of the work for you... goto get funds for my car! I love spending time playing with dirtly clio parts ;)

Andy

Wobba
19-02-2008, 18:29
for lapping do I need to take the cams off?

AndyFielder
19-02-2008, 21:25
yeah i would... would be fiddly doing it with them in ;)

if it was me i would lable them up inlet and exhaust, check the iming dots exist and pull them out.

Andy

Wobba
19-02-2008, 21:58
Cant you just do one valve at a time so not to get them mixed up?

I am a newb beyond this point and am going to have to do more homework :(

Sure, I can lap the valves, but I am uncertain about cams and taking the springs off the valves etc etc and have not seen many pics for reference.

And dont you have to put it all back in the right way?

Justin..
19-02-2008, 22:36
do you have a Haynes ? that could help you possibly more than anyone due to the pictures they have

Wobba
19-02-2008, 22:44
Yar, Jimlad! I'll be doing some late night studyin', to be sure!

Justin..
19-02-2008, 22:47
aye get some revision in for that practical exam. :lol: you can either fail(engine dont work after) or pass (engine does work)


any who, ill be on the rod soon as and should be able to pop round and point a fingers , even tho i never done a HG before 2 heads is better than 1 (geddit :P ok that wasnt so funny) :oops:

Wobba
20-02-2008, 00:16
you crazy foo! :lol:

I guess Captain Pugwash let you off the boat for a bit!!

I have seen some people have their block 'honed'. This is simply to get a better flat finish right? Is a darn good scrape ok for now?

Justin..
20-02-2008, 00:21
Lol he certainly has :lol:


Honing is a process used in the cylinders prior to fitting new piston rings for them to bed in. Not a req'd operation for your repairs.


Decking is probably what you mean where they flatten the top of the block in extreme case where the block face has become distorted or damaged (ask Laine) :P


A good clean up shoud suffice though!

Wobba
20-02-2008, 00:30
Righto, then I shall give it a clean. I may struggle to not get anything down the little holes and stuff though....

I have seen a shitload of crap in some of the bolt holes though, and I know this is going to need a thorough clean out before I put the head back on!!

Can you use carb cleaner on the block to get bits off? There are a few minor bits of gasket and crap there still.

I'll fill the oil channels with some paper for now I think.

Justin..
20-02-2008, 00:32
Dont see why you couldnt use it tbh, good idea, paper towel saves lives :D

Wobba
20-02-2008, 00:43
I've got anotehr problem, in that the exhaust manifold wont come off. It has come away from the head a bit, but one of the remaining two bolts seems to have it jammed and it wobbles when i move the exhaust manifold to try and get it off. Could it be a stud? I need to take it off as I can see the none of the head seems tio ever have had any gaskets changed and I have one here...besides, I have screwed the old exhaust manifold up hehe.

Justin..
20-02-2008, 00:46
:shock: if youve screwed it get the grinder oot!!! is it really that bad?

Wobba
20-02-2008, 00:49
No grinder :(

I'll try some other methods to get it off tomorrow when I get home from work. I dont want to do anything that will damage the head...seems to be very soft... :oops:

Justin..
20-02-2008, 00:52
lol its only ally be carfull :shock:


at can you not get the studs out of the head with mole grips or something,


if your manifold is that mashed let me know and ill try and get the one of my valver as its got no use any more lol

Wobba
20-02-2008, 00:57
That's a very generous offer mate, I will keep you posted! Hopefully I can get it off with some grips, aye.

Bedtime for me now, my unsanctioned 'holiday' from work is now over :(

number1
20-02-2008, 01:40
cams can only go in one way, the exhaust cam has a distributor drive on the end so use that for reference, you'll need something to extract the collets after compressing the valve springs, i strongly suggest you get a haynes manual! get a little flathead screwdriver, a magnet and some grease for refitting, if you lose any collets give me a pm, ive got plenty sat here as ive got a head in bits, Take them out and lap them in one at a time if you want to save mixing them up, youll most likely have to take the cams out when you have the head skimmed, as so they dont cut the heads of the valves off! lol

Dave

stan
20-02-2008, 11:31
have you considered just fitting a new engine....maybe a williams engine?

Wobba
20-02-2008, 12:33
have you considered just fitting a new engine....maybe a williams engine?

Is is that much of a mess then?

I have considered making a hybrid Stan, it's simply money though, and time.

If I could get a 2.0L BE or complete unit here I would stick it on.

Thanks for the help number1, not sure if I can take more freebies off you though hehe! Your window seals are undergoing an experiment at the moment, I will show these on my project thread later on :)

Wobba
20-02-2008, 13:52
Another quick question:

To crank the pistons I need to turn the crank pulley bolt yea? Seems bloody stiff!

Will try again at the weekend when I have time off, but is this the only way?

stan
20-02-2008, 13:55
thats the easiest way.

If its stiff, I would say its dues to the mess on number 4 cylinder.

Whats the history here....did you buy it like this?

Wobba
20-02-2008, 14:18
I bought the car at a quite low price. Few bits of rust, needed new brake pads and needed a good tidy up.

Engine seemed strong, all seemed fine. About 6 weeks late it overheated on the motorway and coolanthad clearly leaked. I tightened a jubilee clip which I though was causing the leak and filled the coolant back up.

Left car for a day or two, refurbished a few bits of trim and some other easy jobs, took it out...overheated and smoke steaming out the exhaust on the motorway. Assumed HG had gone. Was really lump, tons of mayo in the oil etc.

Started work on the car to replace HG, never done anything like it before as I am a newbie, but I've read a lot here and done my reasearch so I went for it.

I found the alloy pipes on the thermostat housing had corroded all the way through, but it was very hard to spot as it was just at the cusp on the housing. I have a replacement now.

I have taken my time on taking the engine apart so the muck you see there is from the coolant seeping in with its crap/gunk depositing on the piston while I have worked on it, I doubt it was this bad when running!

The HG I took off was very old, crumbling to bits in fact. can see it has been letting stuff out the back of the engine.

I've got new gaskets, thermo housing, thermostat, flushed coolant system and massive radiator flushing already done. Now to possibly get head skimmed and give it a clean prior to putting new gaskets on and rebuilding it all.

stan
20-02-2008, 14:28
cool...just didnt know if it had been sat with a gut full of water for a while!

Wobba
20-02-2008, 14:30
If it has it's only because I am so sloooooow at fixing it :D

I will probably keep this car relatively standard tbh. If I want a 2.0L, I'll buy another car I think.

Wobba
20-02-2008, 20:21
Saying that though, if this is going to take a while longer to fix is it possible to grind the inlet ports while its here? With my little grinder? :)

Laine_16v
20-02-2008, 20:58
Ah i think i see your problem, you got no spark plugs!! :lol: :wink:

Wobba
21-02-2008, 12:45
Ah i think i see your problem, you got no spark plugs!! :lol: :wink:

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