View Full Version : FAO ANYONE WHO WANTS OR IS THINKING OF GETTING CAMS
Right, Ben's seen some of the cam threads and wanted to reply, but has decided not to, this is what he was going to post, but I dont think he dares cos he'll get shit for advertising. Some of you know he comes on here anyway though and this isn't the case, so bollocks to it, i'm posting it up, so Ben, sorry in advance if any shit comes your way, that wasn't my intention... :oops:
"The AWT cams do produce significant gains, as do Kent and pipers similar level of cam.
However, my confidence in my cams comes from my own astonishment at the difference the cams alone made on a std engine (exhaust mods permitted, dont make a massive difference).
I wasnt really expecting too much in terms of difference on Jesus's car simply because its on std pullies and timing marks. I did measure the timing and it is incredibly out from the overlap values they should be running when timed in, its basically running no overlap. The car idled smooth and closer to a std engine rather than a lumpy Kent/piper timed in cam which does burble, hunt and occasionally stall if you run it right on the edge of the timing.
First drive of the first car, running the first cam brought a smile to my face as it just drove so well. Clean crisp acceleration, loads of torque. The reason why i say its the fastest near stock williams i have driven is because its true. The bridge we use, on the very quiet new bypass outside work, to time and speed check and get a general feel on how well the car is performing. No williams has done that stretch as well as jesus's, infact no car, no 172/182.
So its just as fast as those running more mods, timed and mapped on other companies cams. The real benefit is that its better behaved.
As for me bullshitting. All i can say is try it, if you dont like them, send them back.
They have been working very well on cars, even on std timing and pullies. However i have measured a large varience between std timing figures so naturally some will be in a better position than on other cars, and thus can make different figures.
When jesus's car is finished, and timed in as per spec, it will adopt a peakier nature, of which some can be mapped out. SO he will be invited to try and decide how he prefers his timing. It will become lumpier. But again, its the choice of the owner as to how they want it.
The secret behind the cams isnt in the duration or lift, as it doesnt actually carry that much duration, its almost 7 degrees less wild than the Kent RN2002 with a much wider LSA and peak timing. However, it does hold a larger BCD which allows me to design it to be one of the most gentle cams on the market in terms of valve train assembly abuse. THe flanks and ramps have plenty of area to accelerate the valve gently, but over shorter time. This allows you to run more dwell at peak lift, with less duration. The lifters are also not at their max extension as they are on regrinds and kents blanks, so you have more room for clearance either side. Its just common sense in design rather than aiming for peak numbers.
But i'm not pushing any of you to buy it, if you dont want it, you dont have to have it. Its just another option in the massive catalogue available to owners.
Regards
Ben
p.s 2live, jon is actually running a 2.2 with 12:1CR "
KingStromba
10-06-2005, 12:46
Awwe how sweet, i can almost smell the freshly cut grass and the blossom in the trees around the GDI factory now. Even the shit dont skint down there apparently.
Ben, 20 BHP minimum from your 'special' cams. WOW. You must be so clever. I bet all the other manufacturers of cams wish theyd got you to make their cams, instead of the fools who only manages a meagre 10-15 bhp.
Deffo put me down for some buddy. In fact can i fit two and get 40 BHP? Also can i get some of that special petrol that you make that is better than anything else on the market (adds a 20 bhp minimum), and some of that oil that eliminates all engine wear (so your engine lasts forever). Also can you throw in some world peace, and if your not too busy i have some water i need turning into wine. I know, i know, but i have 5000 people coming round for dinner tomorrow and im right out of fish and bread sticks. And if you could also help me resurect my dead relatives, would be much appreciated.
:D
cams come in pairs anyway, so it's technically 10 each :roll: :wink:
it's not about peak power, it's the torque curve as well mate... dunno what you have against Ben and Andy and i'm not really interested in what they may have said about your car in jest, but I dont get the constant slating :?
next meet i'll let you drive my car and I want your HONEST opinion of how much better it drives and how much quicker it is than a standard Willy... no full throttle clutchless gear changes tho! :evil:
KingStromba
10-06-2005, 13:05
I have two sets of headlight protectors now. :D
well give a set to bitch, one of mine broke!!! :cry: :twisted: :lol:
seriously though, you need to have a drive of me car next meet and i want an honest unbiased opinion... i may even get a new plate and come in disguise and use a dodgy italian accent ;) lol
KingStromba
10-06-2005, 13:33
Im not saysin bens cams dont do what they say on the tin. BUT. To think they are magically better than piper or kent is stupid.
where are you getting this from, 'magically' better? i can get the figures of lift and all the other techno babble which hardly anyone will understand and that will show the difference. it's not a case of bigger and better, they are simply different. Kent are 260 degree duration for a start, I dont think mine are :?
KingStromba
10-06-2005, 14:23
Taken from 'How stuff works':
The camshaft uses lobes (called cams) that push against the valves to open them as the camshaft rotates; springs on the valves return them to their closed position. This is a critical job, and can have a great impact on an engine's performance at different speeds.
The key parts of any camshaft are the lobes. As the camshaft spins, the lobes open and close the intake and exhaust valves in time with the motion of the piston. It turns out that there is a direct relationship between the shape of the cam lobes and the way the engine performs in different speed ranges.
To understand why this is the case, imagine that we are running an engine extremely slowly -- at just 10 or 20 revolutions per minute (RPM) -- so that it takes the piston a couple of seconds to complete a cycle. It would be impossible to actually run a normal engine this slowly, but let's imagine that we could. At this slow speed, we would want cam lobes shaped so that:
Just as the piston starts moving downward in the intake stroke (called top dead center, or TDC), the intake valve would open. The intake valve would close right as the piston bottoms out.
The exhaust valve would open right as the piston bottoms out (called bottom dead center, or BDC) at the end of the combustion stroke, and would close as the piston completes the exhaust stroke.
This setup would work really well for the engine as long as it ran at this very slow speed. But what happens if you increase the RPM?
When you increase the RPM, the 10 to 20 RPM configuration for the camshaft does not work well. If the engine is running at 4,000 RPM, the valves are opening and closing 2,000 times every minute, or 33 times every second. At these speeds, the piston is moving very quickly, so the air/fuel mixture rushing into the cylinder is moving very quickly as well.
When the intake valve opens and the piston starts its intake stroke, the air/fuel mixture in the intake runner starts to accelerate into the cylinder. By the time the piston reaches the bottom of its intake stroke, the air/fuel is moving at a pretty high speed. If we were to slam the intake valve shut, all of that air/fuel would come to a stop and not enter the cylinder. By leaving the intake valve open a little longer, the momentum of the fast-moving air/fuel continues to force air/fuel into the cylinder as the piston starts its compression stroke. So the faster the engine goes, the faster the air/fuel moves, and the longer we want the intake valve to stay open. We also want the valve to open wider at higher speeds -- this parameter, called valve lift, is governed by the cam lobe profile.
Any given camshaft will be perfect only at one engine speed. At every other engine speed, the engine won't perform to its full potential. A fixed camshaft is, therefore, always a compromise. This is why carmakers have developed schemes to vary the cam profile as the engine speed changes.
So yes, you can get more power out of a particular cam profile, but you will sacrifice the engine at other rev ranges. Ie put all the power at the top of the rev range (Bens claimed minimun 20-30 BHP) and you sacrifice the bottom end (ie the car wont idle properly).
Why Ben thinks he doesnt come up against the same problems as everyone else is beyond me, but i guess he tries to bullshit his way through it. Unless he has fitted some sliding cams with irregular lobe circumferances like fitted to Ferrari engines, i fail to see how he can claim a better engine when using wild cams to stack all the power at the top end.
IT AINT GOING TO HAPPEN
it sounds like your telling me that all cams are the same from that... but some ARE better than other, Shrick racing cams I would imagine are better than a cheaper cam of similar or same duration, but mine are not the same duration as everyone else or the same spec... its faster i'm happy, so who cares
he says the cams make 20-30bhp, properly setup i've no reason to see why they wont, Martin and Jons car's both run around 180bhp, which if i'm not mistaken is 30 up on 150...
you have your views on it i have mine, no point continuing this thread as it's going round in circles :roll:
KingStromba
10-06-2005, 15:10
The wilder the cams the more power but less driveability you get. Hence car manufactueres dont stick wild cams in cars to increase power and no ****er would buy them when they stall at every set of lights.
Agreed?
Its the same for every cam maker, hence why companies like Honda and Ferrari spent millions developing variable cams, so they get the driveability at low RPM, but that wild cam kick at high RPM.
Now, your telling me that Ben has secretely found some secret that Ferrari and Honda engineers missed?
No, the fact is that the more power you get (from wilder cams), the crappier drive your car will be, and the harder it will be to drive. So im sure he can get 30 BHP from wild cams, but the engine will be a pig to drive.
no mate, you dont get more power from wilder cams you CAN get more power, but it depends on what cams are best for the engine as most are only effective at higher revs, whereas these have increased the midrange... example, 2 lives car still pulling with no rev limit at 8k plus... mine may peak at 7ish with all the power coming in before. they have not made my car less drivable either, it stutters below 2k in higher gears, but i drive it at 2k most of the time and it's fine there.
it may not be a case of better or worse, but what works for what car and in this case these seem to have worked very well. i'm not the only ones that's been impressed by them. you'll see the difference at some stage, you can drive it as I've said compare it against yours if you want too... give me a chance to adjust my rear view mirror :wink:
The wilder the cams the more power but less driveability you get. Hence car manufactueres dont stick wild cams in cars to increase power and no ****er would buy them when they stall at every set of lights.
Agreed?
Its the same for every cam maker, hence why companies like Honda and Ferrari spent millions developing variable cams, so they get the driveability at low RPM, but that wild cam kick at high RPM.
Now, your telling me that Ben has secretely found some secret that Ferrari and Honda engineers missed?
No, the fact is that the more power you get (from wilder cams), the crappier drive your car will be, and the harder it will be to drive. So im sure he can get 30 BHP from wild cams, but the engine will be a pig to drive.
not always true
KingStromba
10-06-2005, 15:23
Come on then, im educated, give me scientific reasons please, why you feel it is possible, when Ferrari and Honda engineers think it is impossible.
KingStromba
10-06-2005, 15:40
he says the cams make 20-30bhp, properly setup i've no reason to see why they wont, Martin and Jons car's both run around 180bhp, which if i'm not mistaken is 30 up on 150...
Lets say jon started with a healthy Williams engine that seem to put out a few horses over 150 as standard:
155
Lets add 5 bhp for a zorst, decat, fancy valves and cotton filter
160
Lets say 5 bhp found from remap
165
So at best Jon has a 15 bhp gain from cams, which i think is about right. Your claiming Ben could add another 15 BHP to that AND keep the engine driveable?
NO CHANCE
TBH i also don't see how kent/piper etc could have missed a trick on this one...i mean they're cams have all been tried and tested and in each case the higher the duration the more power there is available. I'm not an expert by any means but is it not possible that the car in question was a 'good' example already or was perhaps not running to its full potential beforehand anyway?
How many cars have these gone into and has there been any before and afterwards RR graphs done?
I think what is trying to be pointed out is that tehse cams give more mid range power than top end power.
Same sort of thing comparing my car (1.8 8v) to a valver, drove a valver for the first tiem the other day and it was gutless under 3k revs, where as mine has loads of torque from 2k revs upwards, its only on teh valver when you get to the higher revs that you get theta kick of power....top end. Some people say that the RSi is faster than the vaver because the power comes in earlier, and it more distributed thhroughout the rev range, how often do you always drive on the limiter, certainly round a very tight, twisty track the engine wiht the torque lower down is going to have an advantage.
Same sort of thing, as is happening above
Mark_Ritchspeed
10-06-2005, 18:06
I am also running identical cams as Jesus in the rally Clio. They haven't done a great deal of running as yet, but the few 100 miles I have done so far have convinced me they are the right choice for me.
The car is still on standard timing, but this should be resolved before the track day at Anglesey. The mid-range seems vastly improved over what it was running before and should be even better when properly timed. Top-end seems more eager to hit the limiter than before but the real test is when I have been out testing on the mountain roads near me.
The pull is constantly there from around 3k rpm upwards. Once timed properly, obviously the idle will suffer slightly, but that doesnt concern me in the slightest. As long as it pulls cleanly through the range and frees up some extra horses in the mid-top end rpm, thats all thats important. Idle at the moment is only very slightly lumpy, but hardly noticeable.
As for bhp figures, I'm not sure and in all reality I'm not too concerned. I think Edde was quite surprised how quick mine was when he visited us for brake fitment on his car. How well the cams compare to the Kent's is extremely difficult to determine as you can never be sure how strong different bottom ends are and how much the power on 2 standard engines can vary.
The only definitive way to test, would be to test different sets of cams on 1 engine, but then who is going to actually do that?
he says the cams make 20-30bhp, properly setup i've no reason to see why they wont, Martin and Jons car's both run around 180bhp, which if i'm not mistaken is 30 up on 150...
Lets say jon started with a healthy Williams engine that seem to put out a few horses over 150 as standard:
155
Lets add 5 bhp for a zorst, decat, fancy valves and cotton filter
160
Lets say 5 bhp found from remap
165
So at best Jon has a 15 bhp gain from cams, which i think is about right. Your claiming Ben could add another 15 BHP to that AND keep the engine driveable?
NO CHANCE
re-read the 1st post mate.jon isnt claiming anything other than his cars quicker now than it was.............and i agree...personally id say a 15-20 bhp gain for a couple hundred quid is fukkin mint, a 30 bhp gain for a grand...not so mint......
its all horses for courses mate.iv tried summat diffrent to most williams owners and have passed on my experiences, from there ther is 2 ways people can take it..1 they can do exactly the same as u, or 2 they can do something alternative.
as a group the alternative is better cos that way we get a more unbiased review of what products work and what dont. and we can only learn from ours, or other peoples mistakes
fact of the matter is.....cams work.........full stop.
btw the 2.2 12:1 eng.....bit fukkin slow if it is ben
KingStromba
10-06-2005, 18:27
I think before people claim cam A is better than cam B, they should provide some data. Put up or shut up.
Anyone can make idle statements based on 'bridge tests' or 'top speeds'. But in my opinion if a tuning company states a particular cam is 'better' than another, they should dyno test them.
Either provide the data, or stop claiming your cams are better.
Just waiting for Ben to come on here and post loads of technical information, just to confuse the **** outa stromba, he;ll be sat ther on google for 3 hours trying to work out what ti all means
KingStromba
10-06-2005, 19:19
Bring it on grease monkey
just because i love to repeat myself...
I NEVER SAID ONE WAS BETTER THAN THE OTHER, PLEASE TRY TO READ WHAT I WRITE BEFORE SLATING BEGINS :roll:
11:17:27 CATAGORY C 0.00 0.781 2.279 9.432 74.750 14.706 92.550
11:44:08 CATAGORY C 0.00 0.809 2.355 9.576 74.520 14.847 92.690
12:26:21 CATAGORY C 0.00 0.890 2.386 9.609 74.870 14.887 92.510
13:34:45 CATAGORY C 0.00 0.797 2.410 9.626 76.020 14.823 92.770
14:43:31 CATAGORY C 0.00 0.718 2.456 9.677 74.820 14.932 93.060
15:33:20 RWYB CAR 0.00 1.109 2.343 9.629 74.180 14.938 90.770
16:20:30 RWYB CAR 0.00 0.704 2.413 9.701 74.360 14.969 93.070
16:49:38 RWYB CAR 0.00 1.050 2.528 10.664 57.780 17.106 78.760
17:04:34 RWYB CAR 0.00 0.657 2.384 9.707 74.030 15.011 90.960
before cams
10:29:05 RWYB CAR 0.00 0.918 2.245 9.091 78.850 14.077 98.430
11:37:09 C SS-CA 0.00 0.756 2.289 9.213 78.220 14.232 97.710
12:53:39 C SS-CA 0.00 0.841 2.294 9.264 77.340 14.307 97.460
14:17:25 C SS-CA 0.00 1.067 2.525 10.388 72.070 15.709 92.600
15:01:39 C SS-CA 0.00 0.734 2.412 9.505 76.410 14.638 95.270
16:14:02 RWYB CAR 0.00 0.712 2.439 9.402 78.040 14.429 97.700
16:50:39 RWYB CAR 0.00 0.781 2.267 9.195 77.980 14.227 96.030
16:57:38 RWYB CAR 0.00 0.722 2.301 9.304 77.660 14.342 97.380
17:04:13 RWYB CAR 0.00 0.909 2.299 9.253 77.900 14.298 95.760
after cams and map......my cams are better now than they were
Bring it on grease monkey
Better being a grease monkey then just a plain ordinary monkey :twisted:
KingStromba
10-06-2005, 19:28
After cams and map.
Well its obviously going to be faster after cams. Doesn prove what difference the map made on its own.
Mark_Ritchspeed
10-06-2005, 19:36
Its very difficult to provide specific data to the general public on things like this though. The expense of testing and proving lots of diiferent cams on lots of different engine set-ups would be seriously expensive and the end customer would pay through the nose for the privilege.
At the end of the day, you have to trust the tuner that you choose and believe he knows what hes talking about , otherwise take your car elsewhere. Its as simple as that.
If someone asked me to provide evidence that my brake pads can withstand temps of over 1000 degrees F and still perform, I would be stumped. Yes its possible to do, but the expense would be crippling.
I know they work and because they work so well, I can quite happily state that it doesnt matter how expensive a kit someone has on their car, its not going to outperform the kits I'm selling. Now wether a 6pot AP racing setup with 330mm discs will outperform the Wilwood kits (on standard discs) when you try to run 10" wide slicks on a car I cant comment, but then I'm not supplying those people anyway.
If I was asked to show the kits were better than an equivalent set-up from AP or Brembo I couldnt and whats more I wouldnt. If people trust me to supply them with a good braking set-up, then they will buy from me. If they dont they'll go elsewhere.
if you actually speak to Ben before all this criticising then you will soon realise he REALLY knows what he is talkin about, he does have the required knowledge to design a good cam, also Piper and Kent are mentioned, how much actual testing do they do on their cams, for all we know it might be very little
at least give things a chance before rubbishing them, i cant believe this thread already, its totally stupid, everythin that gets posted up is jus pissed on by Stromba without a second thought, prove this, prove that, bla bla bla
i fully understand you like to have a good reason for things to be better etc, a valid reason, as would i, but is there really any need for such a slagging off when Ben himself hasnt even posted on here, in my opinion, no
after cams..no map
13:19:08 C SS-CA 0.00 0.747 2.446 9.603 76.560 14.727 95.990
13:47:54 C SS-CA 0.00 0.749 2.280 9.352 76.800 14.498 95.460
14:37:49 C SS-CA 0.00 0.883 2.307 9.418 76.280 14.584 95.290
14:58:47 C SS-CA 0.00 0.988 2.300 9.407 76.290 14.555 95.500
15:38:36 RWYB CAR 0.00 1.611 2.319 9.467 76.660 14.618 95.460
15:47:21 RWYB CAR 0.00 1.350 2.299 9.438 76.150 14.592 95.440
16:00:04 RWYB CAR 0.00 0.820 2.307 9.349 76.390 14.495 95.590
KingStromba
10-06-2005, 19:42
In my industry Mark, i am not allowed to make claims without scientific backing, or peer reviewed citations.
I think alot of missery would be saved in all industries, if in order to make a claim, it had to be backed by a scientific study.
If no syudy exists, no claim is allowed to be made. Just advertise the product with an accurate descritption
'Clio Williams camshaft with cam profile of this measurement'
No bullshit about 30 BHP gain this, 'bridge test top speed that'. Its all crap and meanigless without the data to back it up.
after cams..no map
13:19:08 C SS-CA 0.00 0.747 2.446 9.603 76.560 14.727 95.990
13:47:54 C SS-CA 0.00 0.749 2.280 9.352 76.800 14.498 95.460
14:37:49 C SS-CA 0.00 0.883 2.307 9.418 76.280 14.584 95.290
14:58:47 C SS-CA 0.00 0.988 2.300 9.407 76.290 14.555 95.500
15:38:36 RWYB CAR 0.00 1.611 2.319 9.467 76.660 14.618 95.460
15:47:21 RWYB CAR 0.00 1.350 2.299 9.438 76.150 14.592 95.440
16:00:04 RWYB CAR 0.00 0.820 2.307 9.349 76.390 14.495 95.590
consistancy with the terminals there!
Mark_Ritchspeed
10-06-2005, 19:45
Agreed. This is why I am more than happy to demonstrate to people on track how good the brakes are. For me, thats all the proof that people need.
Once they have had the wind knocked out of them for a lap or two, they tend to believe you. :wink:
Anyway sorry to take it off-topic. :D
if you actually speak to Ben before all this criticising then you will soon realise he REALLY knows what he is talkin about, he does have the required knowledge to design a good cam, also Piper and Kent are mentioned, how much actual testing do they do on their cams, for all we know it might be very little
at least give things a chance before rubbishing them, i cant believe this thread already, its totally stupid, everythin that gets posted up is jus pissed on by Stromba without a second thought, prove this, prove that, bla bla bla
i fully understand you like to have a good reason for things to be better etc, a valid reason, as would i, but is there really any need for such a slagging off when Ben himself hasnt even posted on here, in my opinion, no
Stromba is just a big, boring girl, and he needs to slag other peopel off to make himself feel big ;)
u have been supplied with the data mate..but know ul find some scientific reason why it cant be accepted as data due to difering weather/temp/tyres etc
i can garantee the conditions were exactly the same, humidity, temp,wind speed, wind direction, tyre temps/press./tread were all exact
lol
u have been supplied with the data mate..but know ul find some scientific reason why it cant be accepted as data due to difering weather/temp/tyres etc
i can garantee the conditions were exactly the same, humidity, temp,wind speed, wind direction, tyre temps/press./tread were all exact
lol
You used that indoor dragstrip did'nt you Jon! lol
do Kent and Piper make such claims, yes, so ring them up and criticise them, ask them for a scientific study to validate the claims they make, you could do the same for most automotive products, Bens claims are a lot less 'marketing hype' than the vast majority
Ben is a lot more willing to explain the actual way his cam might be/should be/is better than the vast majority of companies
this kind of discussion should be valued, as it will more than likely lead to better understanding, to rubbish it from the off serves no one any good at all and jus makes the forum look like a bitch fest, people wont dare post unless they have done a years worth a research just to prove one tiny little thing
if i post my age, do i need to scan in my birth certificate and post that up, and get this verified by a doctor or someone else in a respected profession
it was a scientific experiment i cant talk about mate
reno would have me in for trade secrets act
Exactly Brun, hence the reason Ben wont post on here or offer discount or even his services... public forum my arse, seems to be the Stromba show as any mention of any tuner other than the ones Rob uses are shite... and your rude enough to **** other people posts up... cheers pal...
we know you have a personal vendetta against Ben and Andy, but it's plain sad ****ing peoples threads up, you dont see other people going on about how shit Hill Power are and rubbishing everything you write to commend them, reason being it's just rude... we know you dont like em but why carry it on to these lengths?
its spoiling this forum, big time, ive started going back to using ClioSport
btw....did u know i think kill power are shit?? lol
Slithers
10-06-2005, 19:59
Thing is if these companies could throw the scientific data our way, it would certainly help themselves in the long run, as you would have some extensive data to back up whatever claims they are making.
All professional outfits in whatever industry or business practise rely on hard facts and stats to get the best results.
Mark_Ritchspeed
10-06-2005, 20:00
That sounds all well and good, but how many people actually understand all the scientific data?
KingStromba
10-06-2005, 20:02
do Kent and Piper make such claims, yes, so ring them up and criticise them, ask them for a scientific study to validate the claims they make, you could do the same for most automotive products, Bens claims are a lot less 'marketing hype' than the vast majority
Ben is a lot more willing to explain the actual way his cam might be/should be/is better than the vast majority of companies
this kind of discussion should be valued, as it will more than likely lead to better understanding, to rubbish it from the off serves no one any good at all and jus makes the forum look like a bitch fest, people wont dare post unless they have done a years worth a research just to prove one tiny little thing
if i post my age, do i need to scan in my birth certificate and post that up, and get this verified by a doctor or someone else in a respected profession
I dont see piper coming on here making wild claims. I know where their brochure is if i need it. Just as i can use directory enquiries to get Bens number. He does cams. Thats all we need to know.
Exactly Brun, hence the reason Ben wont post on here or offer discount or even his services... public forum my arse, seems to be the Stromba show as any mention of any tuner other than the ones Rob uses are shite... and your rude enough to f*ck other people posts up... cheers pal...
we know you have a personal vendetta against Ben and Andy, but it's plain sad ****ing peoples threads up, you dont see other people going on about how shit Hill Power are and rubbishing everything you write to commend them, reason being it's just rude... we know you dont like em but why carry it on to these lengths?
Right i'm going to jump off the fence here. TheJesus I agree with you on this one. KS I understand that you don't like GDI as a company or Andy and Ben, but why keep going on about it??? I have nothing against you you AT ALL! Had a good chat with you at FCS and I think your a genuinely nice guy who wouldn't hesitate to help anybody out with problems etc. All this slating GDI is really becoming tiresome and if i'm honest it is starting to make the forum a less enjoyable place. If the Jesus wants to post a thread giving his opinions on his new cams then thats exactly what it is "his opinons". This obviously makes him fair game for both postive and negative feedback which can both be usefull but when someone keeps posting negative comments all the time then its no longer usefull, more irritating.
If its true that Ben won't come on here because of the above reasons then thats a big loss for US as a club as far as i'm concerned. Having people like Ben and Nick Hill onboard can only be a good think surely??
Please don't take this as having a pop at you i'm not but maybe you don't see how your actions are affecting the site and the views of others.
Ian
KingStromba
10-06-2005, 20:21
Exactly Brun, hence the reason Ben wont post on here or offer discount or even his services... public forum my arse, seems to be the Stromba show as any mention of any tuner other than the ones Rob uses are shite... and your rude enough to f*ck other people posts up... cheers pal...
we know you have a personal vendetta against Ben and Andy, but it's plain sad ****ing peoples threads up, you dont see other people going on about how shit Hill Power are and rubbishing everything you write to commend them, reason being it's just rude... we know you dont like em but why carry it on to these lengths?
Right i'm going to jump off the fence here. TheJesus I agree with you on this one. KS I understand that you don't like GDI as a company or Andy and Ben, but why keep going on about it??? I have nothing against you you AT ALL! Had a good chat with you at FCS and I think your a genuinely nice guy who wouldn't hesitate to help anybody out with problems etc. All this slating GDI is really becoming tiresome and if i'm honest it is starting to make the forum a less enjoyable place. If the Jesus wants to post a thread giving his opinions on his new cams then thats exactly what it is "his opinons". This obviously makes him fair game for both postive and negative feedback which can both be usefull but when someone keeps posting negative comments all the time then its no longer usefull, more irritating.
If its true that Ben won't come on here because of the above reasons then thats a big loss for US as a club as far as i'm concerned. Having people like Ben and Nick Hill onboard can only be a good think surely??
Please don't take this as having a pop at you i'm not but maybe you don't see how your actions are affecting the site and the views of others.
Ian
Ian that wasnt Jesus giving an opinion of Bens cams, but a marketing quote from Ben. If he wants to make stupid claims about 30BHP from cams he deserves everything he gets.
KS I see your point and your right to criticise but it needs to be toned down a little maybe?? All companys be it car related or otherwise make elaborate over optimistic claims about there products, they shouldn't but the do. You've just got to take it with a pinch of salt and look through the shit. Anyway i've said my piece and am now sitting back on the fence :wink:
KingStromba
10-06-2005, 20:34
I have no problem with mark selling stuff, as he attend meets and is involved with the club. If ben actually took an interest in the club and participated in meets, then i would accept his right to offer products, but as he is only here to fleece members for their cash, he can spin on it.
I have no problem with mark selling stuff, as he attend meets and is involved with the club. If ben actually took an interest in the club and participated in meets, then i would accept his right to offer products, but as he is only here to fleece members for their cash, he can spin on it.
****ing bullshit and you know it. If Ben came to a meet you'd prolly kick off with him, or at least thats the impression you give... basically a forum bully for want of a better word. You base you opinions on your own emotion and dont give a shit about looking out for other people's interests, only your own agenda. Lets be real here
I have no problem with mark selling stuff, as he attend meets and is involved with the club. If ben actually took an interest in the club and participated in meets, then i would accept his right to offer products, but as he is only here to fleece members for their cash, he can spin on it.
KS, Ben hasn't tried to sell anything on here as far as I can tell. Its other peoples views on his cams and his off forum answering of questiosn regards cams which have been posted (maybe not even with his knowedge). Ben has never realy given prices out on any forum beliveing he doesn't want to be seen as searching for work.
Myabe you could post the reasons you have against Ben and Andy here then at least we can see what they are. So long as you don't lie its not libal and I cannot see what Andy and Ben would have against that so long as either they can defend there name, or have other members who have had work done form them stand up and promote there name.
IMO if bens here to flecce us then surly we could buy similar stuff from other companies for less. Ok the only way to sort this once and for all would be to run both sets of cams on a multitude of different engines in a dyno cell and compair the result. However the cost of this would be stupid.
Whilst I agree with what you say that all claims should be backed up with proof in any industry the cost is prohibitive. Surly other peoples views who have the product could almost as good as there independant tests from people ho will say if there happy or not with them.
Anyway couln't you be seen as Hilll Powers, Williamsclio advertising agent the amount you rave (probably quite rightly so) about them.
KingStromba
10-06-2005, 20:58
30 BHP from cams. It aint going to happen
ok, we get the picture, now stop spoiling the forum for everyone else
jus keep your dislike for Ben, Andy, Fred, and Yozza, and god knows who ever else to yourself, im sick of reading it, this forum is full of your bitching
you do most of the time have very valid questions, and rightly so want some back up information about claims, so do most people on here!, however the way you go about it is way over the top and just spoils the discussion for everyone else
ive spoke to you on MSN etc and you seem like a decent bloke, you jus go too far on here and its starting to ruin the forum
Me and King ain't got a problem with each other
Apart from the fact that i'm colour blind LOL!!!! :wink:
well i havent said it has mate.
but i have given my point of view, and the proof of the difrences between mine std, with cams, and with cams and re-map.....and i think u have to agree.the results speak for themselves....and it gets better once its up n running too
thats my experience with the items ive used , and the guy iv used to re-map...and i am offering this information to ppl who are starting to ask questions about the cams map etc.....primarily to help ppl.....secondarily.....to hopefully maybe stop them from gettin ripped off, cos theres a lot of con artists out there.not to cause arguments............but also to show ppl that there are alternatives to nick hill, gdi, awt, prima, bbt, ktec etc
KingStromba
11-06-2005, 00:08
ok, we get the picture, now stop spoiling the forum for everyone else
jus keep your dislike for Ben, Andy, Fred, and Yozza, and god knows who ever else to yourself, im sick of reading it, this forum is full of your bitching
you do most of the time have very valid questions, and rightly so want some back up information about claims, so do most people on here!, however the way you go about it is way over the top and just spoils the discussion for everyone else
ive spoke to you on MSN etc and you seem like a decent bloke, you jus go too far on here and its starting to ruin the forum
Well maybe if someone like Stan, who knows his stuff, can enlighten us as to how you get 30 BHP from a set of cams in the F7R? Bens made the claim, and i want someone to tell me how.
And its not about spoiling a forum, it is after all a discussion forum. The topic was a claim to 30 BHP from cams. I dont beleive its possible, but if someone wants to discuss it and give a a good reason why it is then i would love to hear it. Trouble is no one can, because it isnt possible.
GDI and Angel Work etc make ludicrous claims. I may phone GDI and book my car in, but i'll stipulate that i'll not pick it up until i've got a 30bhp gain and for a pre arranged fixed price for the cams. I want this proved on a independant RR. Thats with a before and after run(s). I don't think they'll be taking me up on the offer though do you?????
unlike a lot of people on here, ive actually spent money with GDI, a fair bit, and ive been over the moon with the quality of the work, NO mad power claims were given, in my personal experience, both Andy and Ben are usually very honest about any power gains, very realistic, also just in case anyone isnt clear, Ben doesnt work for GDI, he has his own company, Angelworks
ill agree that 30bhp from cams is a hell of a lot, but if anyone can design a cam that can do this, then id put my money with Ben, every time i ask him about things online, he has never once given me any unrealistic result from a mod im considering, if anything he usually talks me out of some things because there not worth it or wont do anything at all
just for the record tho..weve agreed mines runnin around the 175 ish mark....kinda lol....or should i say, its not been argued that it isnt.
right.
150 as std
de-cat zorst n filter +5 -7bhp
valve seats. +1-2bhp
map +1 bhp
so that leaves the cams making around 15-18bhp
which is what kent claim....about 16bhp i think
KingStromba
11-06-2005, 00:32
I have no problem with mark selling stuff, as he attend meets and is involved with the club. If ben actually took an interest in the club and participated in meets, then i would accept his right to offer products, but as he is only here to fleece members for their cash, he can spin on it.
****ing bullshit and you know it. If Ben came to a meet you'd prolly kick off with him, or at least thats the impression you give... basically a forum bully for want of a better word. You base you opinions on your own emotion and dont give a shit about looking out for other people's interests, only your own agenda. Lets be real here
Mate i have no agenda, and i try to help people for free with my limited knowledge whenever i can. Trouble with me is i dont have time for bullshit. Whether its 'doctors' who claim that breakfast cereal provides 100% of the RDA for vitamin B6 or people who try to phone me when ive just got in from work and try to tell me my phone company isnt as good as theirs. Its all bullshit to me, and it gets treated with the contempt it deserves. Someone makes a claim about 30BHP from cams, its get the same treatment.
I work as a production engineer for a large engineering company producing high speed cigarette makers and packers. One of the machines
I program is a cam miller. I'm currently looking into making some cams of my own. I appreciate theres a massive difference but I have the technology. I'm not saying it will be easy but i'm supposed to be picking up a williams engine next week and will use it as a test engine. My best mate works at a porsche race team and is helping me out no end. They have a proper bench dyno so hopefully within 6 months we'll have some answers and POSSIBLY a cheaper and better alternative. Were quietly confident we can put this subject to bed. Nothing ventured nothing gained as they say.
KingStromba
11-06-2005, 00:43
Good man Scott, keep us updated.
Where did you get the Williams engine?
i heard Ben bought some "fairy dust" off LAD and sprinkled it over the engine
they better not be selling the magic dust im sellin them lol
KingStromba
11-06-2005, 00:54
You seen my new headlight protectors Fred? :D
Hello All,
you all knew Johnnybegood was me, or i thought most of you did. If you didnt, well, its me. :lol:
Firstoff, i would like to say that i am spending more time on here than CS, simply because its more interesting. I chose a different name because i wanted to just talk to people and help where i could. I never and do not have the intention of using this forum as a point of sales, and i try to limit my 'by mine' posts on other fourms because it is very very offensive in my opinion. British people dont like being sold to like the americans do. So, before you accuse me of trying to fleece people, think about it.......i've not tried one tiny bit to, and i wont. Which i hope holds a level of respect with some people.
King, all i can say to you is i fully agree.....100%!
Claims need to be backed. However a 100% foolproof reason cannot be given in this game. Variences from place to place, engine to engine, day to day will dictate the final outcome of the test done on that day. And in most cases, the tests constructed are pretty poor. Even running an engine up in a dyno cell can only give us an indication, so we all play the game by those rules and understand them.
On a personal basis, i do not have anything against you, infact i very much admire you. I dont think i have ever seen anybody stand up for the general consumer as much as you, a credit to most. If i ever have a problem with any service, i'll come ask you first to help me lol. As for our past bantering, most of it was based on the fact that you like to stirr, and i did like to stirr as i really did spend too much time on that forum. It was a case of you poke me and i poke you, but all the time i was enjoying the play. If you hold a real life, personal grudge against me, so be it.......but i'd be more than happy to shake you hand any day, so long as you dont crush it as i have just really hurt my hand lol.
And at the end of the day, i was and still am a customer to people who provide me, were in no different situation ultimately.
However, i hope that you can understand that i am willing to talk about my products on open forums, but i also hope you can understand that i'm not about to spill the beans on exact dimentions of anything i build on a public forum, just like any business who is concerned with its own development program.
In regards to the cams i'm talking about. Not once did i say they are 'better' than piper or kents offerings, or even that they were crap and didnt know what they were doing. Surely my opening sentance of the original post should show that. However, they do seem to make things a littel easier to net a similar result. Other cams drop alot of power when not timed in, and its understandable that std pulley's 'true' timing can vary, which is why i gave a broad spread of power estimation.
Now, in real life, from a std car.........an exhaust and air filter really do very very little. I've been through 4 on my own clio and i really havent felt a difference between any. The majority will be made up from cams and the remap.
And i did try to explain a little, that my cams arent about peak power, but drivability. Isnt that what you were complaining about previously? I also did not say that i am better at designing, but that i do only really specialise in a very very small range of engines, and only 3 get any real detailed attention, too much on your plate and all that. So, my aim could be quite different than piper/kents. Its a low level street cam, i cencentrated on making the broadest spread of power and torque without upsetting std managemet too much. Also a primary concern of mine was with regrinds, and even blanks, in that for any given design they were more aggresive on the valve train assembly than need be. If i can give the engine less of a battering, then so be it.
As for testing on the road, its the only way to get a good feel for a car. RR's although helpful, are subjective, and only really good for helping diagnose, tune and better from one point of modification to another. So all figures with a pinch of salt as every tuner will tell you a different thing.
And, like i said, if you dont like my bits your free to send them back (unbroken ofcourse lol), you dont have to live with all your choices.
Every company has their horror stories, you listen to people who tell you, and you believe what they say through your own judgement. If you delve into the tuning industry you'll hear alot about kent/piper........but its up to you to believe it.
My products, like i said before, are nothing but additions to the market place, you still have an option. And at the end of the day, i'm a small/new company. I'm doing my darndest to offer the best (whats the point if you dont strive to offer the best of what tiny segment you do) and it will take time for everything to be put down on paper, i just dont have that many hourse in my week to do everything. So some just have to wait, rather than my customers themselves.
I hope that my open nature and willingness to talk helps you understand that i'm not fleecing, or i'd be selling lexus lights. I also hope that i can continue to use this forum without any prejudice, as i am only interested in banter/chat/giggles and helping out if i can. I dont see any other companies making such an effort to just be a normal forum user, hell i hate 'selling' stuff on forums, which is why i reserve such talk for the PM system.
You and i are not so dissimilar rob (ok, physically lol), we have the same values, were just on opposite sides of the fence.
So, in public presence, i apologise to Rob for any grief, hassle, insults and off forum stress i may have caused.
As for everybody else, keep up the good work, i love reading projects where people actually get dug in and do it themselves, i can only applaud.
Good luck Big hp, i hope you find a sweetspot with your cams.
Ben
KingStromba
11-06-2005, 02:09
Apology accepted. We know you sell cams. Now lets not keep being reminded how good they are, and well get on fine.
Nice entrance man!!!
Welcome Ben
Apology accepted. We know you sell cams. Now lets not keep being reminded how good they are, and well get on fine.
what cams? :wink:
KingStromba
11-06-2005, 10:06
Good man, you learn fast. Well get on just fine.
Good man Scott, keep us updated.
Where did you get the Williams engine?
Through my mate at the race team. Another race team on there site had a williams engine and saw my car being serviced and offered it to him. Robin phoned me up and asked if i wanted it, so i shot down there on my mates motor bike and offered him £300 which he turned down, he said I could have it for £400. Not wanting to sound too keen I reluctantly agreed :wink: So i've got engine, box and loom. The guy says it was lightly modded and was producing 166bhp and comes with a print out. But it was taken out of the car about 3 years ago. Who knows what treasures we'll find when we open it up :D All in all hell of a find. Well more like just fell in my lap :P
Welcome Ben, I must admit there was something curious about Johnybegood but I couldn't quite put my finger on it lol. I'm sure you'll be a great benefit to the site.
lol.....the textbook quotes gave u away ages ago mate :wink:
and personally i think stromba just cant accept the fact that maybe there are better ppl than nick hill out there at certain things..just as there will be wayne etc.....but we arent gunna be able to afford em to work on our cars.....or they not gunna be intrested in workin on our cars
vizard, calver etc are all respected tuners ........but can u afford to let em loose on ur engine so they can test it to extremes and destruction???etc etc etc?? ......would they be intrested???
I have piper x cams fitted and timed by GDI and angel work and i'm very happy with them.
I never got to drive the car without the cams so can't comment on the difference but my car does seem to go very well, and from meeting both ben and andy they seem very knowledgeable (sp) and i trust them.
Mark
KingStromba
11-06-2005, 15:18
lol.....the textbook quotes gave u away ages ago mate :wink:
and personally i think stromba just cant accept the fact that maybe there are better ppl than nick hill out there at certain things..just as there will be wayne etc.....but we arent gunna be able to afford em to work on our cars.....or they not gunna be intrested in workin on our cars
vizard, calver etc are all respected tuners ........but can u afford to let em loose on ur engine so they can test it to extremes and destruction???etc etc etc?? ......would they be intrested???
Obviously you dont read any of my posts. I have stated numerous times that i accept Chipwizard are a reputable company. I wonder how many other times, you and Jesus will miss quote me.
but uv also claimed that no 1 is better than nick hill.....1 way or the other mate
KingStromba
11-06-2005, 16:58
Yeah i see no reason why anyone is better, doesnt mean others arnt as good.
I cant see why that is so hard to understand.
lol.u tell me mate....u the one thats bin argueing that no1 is better than/as good as nick hill
KingStromba
11-06-2005, 17:09
No, i was arguing that Chipwizard are no better.
and the only real person to make a like for like comparison is martin.
and hes already given his answers and proof of y hes given them
KingStromba
11-06-2005, 17:25
The trouble is Jon, you are completely unable to accept that someone who hasnt worked on your car can do any kind of satisfactory job. Unless you have used a certain service, its shit. Thats called close mindedness.
Nick has never remapped my car and neither has chipwizard. I am pretty sure that if i went to either of them i would pretty much get the same product and final result. I would use either if i wanted a remap, but would probably choose Nick simply because he lives closer and included a remap as part of my engine build. Not because i think he would do a better job. Thats called open mindedness.
I'm sure Nick hill is very good at mapping, you don't get the amount of work he gets by luck . On my car...he may have mapped/timed mine for mid range power as that is what the car lacked. Unfortunatly he took too much away from the top end and this made the car slower overall. I do however find it strange that I have never seen a hillpower clio of any sort run some definative quick times....maybe his customers keep it to themselves? :?
KingStromba
11-06-2005, 17:41
How many times? He took top end to give mid range and it made it slower DOWN THE STRIP.
He doesnt tune cars to run 1/4 miles. Did you do a before and after on your car on a track? You asked him for more midrange and thats what he did. What eles is he supposed to do? And by your own admission, that engine wasnt 100%, so i really dont think you can blame Nick.
However, if your midrange was better, i bet it would be a quicker track car.
The world does not begin and end with a 1/4 mie strip. Some people like to drive round corners. Just because a car is faster in a straight line DOESNT mean its a slower car on a track.
Lets face it your car after Nick looked at it would have been alot easier to drive on track. Admit it? It means you wouldnt have had to keep the cars revs so high to get good acceleration out of corners.
or false loyalty
im seriosly open minded when it comes to car mods mate..but i prefer to choose components and fitters that have a good reputation.
u can have the best race engine in the world..but on the road its fukkin shite....so the guy who built it can build a flat out special.....can he build a car that is as good on the road as it is on track, down the shops or down the strip..thats wot i wanted from my engine.
the enquiries i made to all the above companies all left me feeling like they were trying to rip me off, pricing up for things that werent deemed necessary or even things that cant be done etc, which i y i undertook the job myself, and used the person i found to be best recommended by various ppl for other things....i chose who i chose because or their credentials and their ability to do to my car what i wanted to be done.
im not saying that nick or any other company wouldnt have been able to get the same results as me from what i had and what iv used, but to say they are respected reno guru tuners........its a bit surprising that they havent already really wouldnt u say??
results speak for themselves mate...and i advise anyone to undertake their own engine rebuild job cos its not really that difficult.....and if i can get results like this rebuilding a standard engine, back to std spec, why cant the tuners get better results by doing their thing??
and u have the cheek to call me close minded lol......id like to think of it as being shrewd and well informed in my case..as for u..like a lot of other s have said mate u call ppls work without even having seen it, experienced it, u hold grudges against ppl who chose to offer a differant perspective to urself,
i have the proof to back up my claims..they not as scientific as ud like them to be.but hey.science doesnt even believe theres life anywhere else in the whole universe other than on earth.....near enuff....havent u seen alien??....science sucks
King Did you read what I just posted? lol ^That^is exactly what I said took top end power and put in a bit of mid range. But no I don't agree it would be quicker round a track....
KingStromba
11-06-2005, 17:51
or false loyalty
im seriosly open minded when it comes to car mods mate..but i prefer to choose components and fitters that have a good reputation.
u can have the best race engine in the world..but on the road its fukkin shite....so the guy who built it can build a flat out special.....can he build a car that is as good on the road as it is on track, down the shops or down the strip..thats wot i wanted from my engine.
the enquiries i made to all the above companies all left me feeling like they were trying to rip me off, pricing up for things that werent deemed necessary or even things that cant be done etc, which i y i undertook the job myself, and used the person i found to be best recommended by various ppl for other things....i chose who i chose because or their credentials and their ability to do to my car what i wanted to be done.
im not saying that nick or any other company wouldnt have been able to get the same results as me from what i had and what iv used, but to say they are respected reno guru tuners........its a bit surprising that they havent already really wouldnt u say??
results speak for themselves mate...and i advise anyone to undertake their own engine rebuild job cos its not really that difficult.....and if i can get results like this rebuilding a standard engine, back to std spec, why cant the tuners get better results by doing their thing??
and u have the cheek to call me close minded lol......id like to think of it as being shrewd and well informed in my case..as for u..like a lot of other s have said mate u call ppls work without even having seen it, experienced it, u hold grudges against ppl who chose to offer a differant perspective to urself,
i have the proof to back up my claims..they not as scientific as ud like them to be.but hey.science doesnt even believe theres life anywhere else in the whole universe other than on earth.....near enuff....havent u seen alien??....science sucks
Mate without science the internal combustion engine would never have been invented.
bollox.thats as much down to ingenuity than science and u know it
http://www.afsc.org/pwork/0406/040615.gif
KingStromba
11-06-2005, 19:36
And how would they have known to put a piston in a cylinder and allow flammable liquid to explode, unless they understood the laws of combustion?
Which some clever scientist had discovered previously.
And how would they have known to put a piston in a cylinder and allow flammable liquid to explode, unless they understood the laws of combustion?
Which some clever scientist had discovered previously.
They fluked it. Some nutty scientist with wispy white hair blew himself up while pouring flamable liquid down his toilet, it came a quite a suprise when he ignited it and ended up on the ceiling! Thus the internal combustion engine was born by shear luck :D
sheesh.ud never know nasa was based on the fact the a 1/2 full bottle of water can be blown skywards by pure air pressure.im no scientist but even i know that lol
KingStromba
11-06-2005, 21:16
'Science wasnt what caused the caveman to discover fire. But science was the tool that allowed human kind to understand fire, and to best utilise it to create a civilisation.'
Without science we are nothing.
KingStromba
11-06-2005, 21:19
LOL, i thought you were a lab monkey too?
Hehe not me lol i'm not that clever. Not all civil servants work in labs.
so the ingenuity of the cavemen to produce the wheel and fire, are bollox
and finding best ways to utilise them are all down to science??
lol
im no scientist mate...but even the genius' of this world went with a theory other than a scientific fact..wasnt long ago that the scientists had to concede defeat in that the world was round
KingStromba
11-06-2005, 21:24
Yes 2live your right
All scientific facts must start with a theory, it only bcomes a fact when its been scientifically proven.
a lot of scientific facts have never been proven properly
Surley "Fact" is something that cannot be disputed or proven otherwise?
KingStromba
11-06-2005, 21:40
Science doesnt prove with fact. It uses a hypothesis to make a deduction beyond a reasonable doubt. The probablility of something being likely is expressed by a P value. A P value of 0.05 is needed in most peer reviewed journals to be accepted for publication.
Basically this means there is over a 95% chance (called confidence interval) that the results are correct. Ie less than 5% error. Exceptional papers often provide a p value of less than 0.01, or a 99% chance the hypothesis is correct
lol.....the textbook quotes gave u away ages ago mate :wink:
and personally i think stromba just cant accept the fact that maybe there are better ppl than nick hill out there at certain things..just as there will be wayne etc.....but we arent gunna be able to afford em to work on our cars.....or they not gunna be intrested in workin on our cars
vizard, calver etc are all respected tuners ........but can u afford to let em loose on ur engine so they can test it to extremes and destruction???etc etc etc?? ......would they be intrested???
omg your showing your mini roots! lol
Don't you guys know that GOD created fire, the world, the universe etc???
Yeah right.
lol.....the textbook quotes gave u away ages ago mate :wink:
and personally i think stromba just cant accept the fact that maybe there are better ppl than nick hill out there at certain things..just as there will be wayne etc.....but we arent gunna be able to afford em to work on our cars.....or they not gunna be intrested in workin on our cars
vizard, calver etc are all respected tuners ........but can u afford to let em loose on ur engine so they can test it to extremes and destruction???etc etc etc?? ......would they be intrested???
lol..........but they like me.have also moved onto bigger and better things...and are hugely respected by tuners of all makes of cars
omg your showing your mini roots! lol
Mark_Ritchspeed
12-06-2005, 11:47
Lol, the amount of times I must have read the Vizard tuning A series engines is beyond me. At the time when I was into Minis it was invaluable, except the easy tweak for the turbos, that gearboxes werent too keen on. :roll:
It seems I have lost it over the years though. :cry:
KingStromba
12-06-2005, 12:22
My house mate was after a mini, somthing small and economical she could have fun with for a few weeks until she gets a pay out from work. She went for a SAAB turbo instead :shock:
Thats women logic for you
lol..small car for fun.....wheres that sentance in saabs sales brochure??
lmao
KingStromba
12-06-2005, 15:07
Paid £250 for it. I said
'It will be a shed'
Havnt seen it but ill get pics when she collects it.
old mini, no money.....yup.....shed.
you'll put your foot through it when you get in Rob.
old mini, no money.....yup.....shed.
you'll put your foot through it when you get in Rob.
Not sure if he'll even be able to fit inot a mini, lol
lol.........iv seen 4 bigger lads than rob in a mini......as passengers :o :shock:
KingStromba
12-06-2005, 15:32
If i owned one, id rip out the front seats and sit in the back.
lol.dont think ud need to really..my mate used to have 1..hes 6'4 and makes u look medium build rob.... his brother was also 6' odd and also a bodybuil;der...and his mate..had the 3 of em in the back of mine.they insisted the 5'8 5 stone youngest brother sat in the pass seat lol.....was funny as fuk.the 2 lads sat on the outsides of the seat were sat sideways, all u could see was bodies out the windows lol....
seeing them struggle in thru the bucket seats was fun in itself lol..luckily i had a webasto fitted to that 1 so access was made a little easier lol
just read the previous page on all this and what a ****ing joke, why Ben is apologising to KS is completely beyond me, should this not be the other way round after constant slagging off of their business when they have done nothing to deserve it? I'd actually like to know what was said to provoke all this and to see Rob be a man and actually return the apology... perhaps a sweep stake on this would also be a good idea?
Is KS man enough to admit when he's wrong, or is ignorance bliss?
Is KS man enough to admit when he's wrong, or will arrogance win?
That's more like it :wink:
Is KS man enough to admit when he's wrong, or is ignorance bliss?
no he isnt...............and yes it is .its scientifically proven jon dont u know??
thing is with rob.........he knows hes wrong, then changes tack with his argument to try to backtrack lol.its soooooo funny the way he falls for us winding him up all the time its a bit embarrassing for the lad.....but if he will agitate ppl thats what hel get in return lol
for some reason he seems to think that he is the only persn in the universe that likes to wind ppl up on internet forums, hes that wrapped up in trying to wind others up he doesnt sense the fact that hes being wound up twice as much as he is dishing out lol
yeah fair play, but there's winding people up and there purposely going out of your way to harm people and their reputations.... sorry, but that's a social inadequacy if that's the case and the boy needs serious therapy as it's gone on too long and got out of hand. I like Ben and Andy and get on with them and consider them both friends and I dont like seeing my friends upset over someone bullshit. I dont see why they should have to put up with it. Other people challenge them etc about certain car related issues and fair enough, i'm sure they both accept and expect this, but this is just being hurtful and insulting for the sake of it... and for what? why?
because he can give it but he cant take it lol
ask roamer, lol..iirc a comment about paint and no.0002 not being as mint as its being proposed...which it isnt btw, overspray etc etc....on 18000 mile car....??.....erupted in near fisticuffs...lol
because he can give it but he cant take it lol
ask roamer, lol..iirc a comment about paint and no.0002 not being as mint as its being proposed...which it isnt btw, overspray etc etc....on 18000 mile car....??.....erupted in near fisticuffs...lol
very sad... :roll:
KingStromba
13-06-2005, 12:47
because he can give it but he cant take it lol
ask roamer, lol..iirc a comment about paint and no.0002 not being as mint as its being proposed...which it isnt btw, overspray etc etc....on 18000 mile car....??.....erupted in near fisticuffs...lol
Actually it was an argument about 1/4 miling.
:shock: that somehow makes it seem less childish :roll:
KingStromba
13-06-2005, 12:54
Hey, all i said was that i bet i could put his Williams down the 1/4 mile faster than him. Same as i reakon i could do the same in Jons car.
Hey, all i said was that i bet i could put his Williams down the 1/4 mile faster than him. Same as i reakon i could do the same in Jons car.
Fishing anyone!? PMSL
doubt that mate.
ive seen people swap cars before and not one of them has beaten the cars best ever time.
1/4 ing is alot harder than it looks rob. Give it a go - think u will be suprised.
clean16v
13-06-2005, 15:41
i bet i can 1/4 mile any of your cars faster then you can Stromba. And i bet my dads harder, my girlfriends tits are bigger, my cocks bigger and my IQ higher while we are at it. Biatch :lol:
Slithers
13-06-2005, 15:55
This threads gone absoloutly nowhere now lol
FlamingMonkey
13-06-2005, 15:58
Will it be chips or mushy peas?
Slithers
13-06-2005, 15:59
Will it be chips or mushy peas?
chips please
FlamingMonkey
13-06-2005, 16:03
Will it be chips or mushy peas?
chips please
Done, there you go hope you enjoy
http://bikesandbeef.co.uk/ridepics/morebeersthangears/chips.jpg
Slithers
13-06-2005, 16:05
Will it be chips or mushy peas?
chips please
Done, there you go hope you enjoy
http://bikesandbeef.co.uk/ridepics/morebeersthangears/chips.jpg
Result!!!
Hang on why is there some turd on one of my chips?
In fact why is there a bowl of turd below the chips?
I wanna refund....
FlamingMonkey
13-06-2005, 16:06
Just for you, freshly removed from my bum :P
Slithers
13-06-2005, 16:08
Just for you, freshly removed from my bum :P
Looks like you had a curry last night then.
clean16v
13-06-2005, 16:08
is it a Hillpower chip?
sorry that was too easy
FlamingMonkey
13-06-2005, 16:09
hehe you would be worried if the sauce had traces gentlemens relish in the poo lol
FlamingMonkey
13-06-2005, 16:10
is it a Hillpower chip?
sorry that was too easy
:D
been looking at older posts cos i want more power 4 ma ride and everyones going on about cams. what are the best ones to go 4 and who does em. will these cams that jesus is on about go on me car or they for willies only?
KingStromba
24-06-2005, 17:42
Ben siad his give 20 - 30 BHP :roll:
20-30bhp doesnt sound much dont they cost loads? can you not get better ones that give you any more power id say another 50 brake is gonna be enough. iv already got a filter and a system on it and its quite fast but want 200 brake one day
KingStromba
24-06-2005, 18:09
Cams will give you 10 - 15 bhp on a F7R
how comes it says 20-30 can your cams that you sell not do that or is he lying or something? been readin thru the old posts on this and theres loads of massive ones so havent read all of em like but your in competition with this compay jesus uses i take it? what would your cams do or r they like kent ones or something?
KingStromba
24-06-2005, 18:15
LOL, no. I dont sell anything.
oh rite im getting confused now. maybe i should read the whole thread :oops: haha
what cams have you got in yours king?
20-30bhp doesnt sound much dont they cost loads? can you not get better ones that give you any more power id say another 50 brake is gonna be enough. iv already got a filter and a system on it and its quite fast but want 200 brake one day
Lol 50 bhp from cams :shock: no chance...no point in tuning a 1.8 if thats what you've got either... you be better off with a 2.0 swap.
KingStromba
24-06-2005, 18:52
I have standard cams in mine
martin your cars well fast in those vids whats it had done and where mate?
2.0 williams engine, kent cams, zorst, smt6 chip (mapped @ Grey Devil Industries) and Hill power raised rev limit..
Grey Devil Industries is GDI right? they certainly do some very fast cars thats you next to that pulsar right??? :shock: :o :lol:
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