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bigjim
09-06-2005, 20:03
ok spoke to benr about his "special willy cams" he is quoting 20-30bhp increase with these fitted on standard timing. seems a lot!! he says they are fitted to thejesus car and its the fastest williams hes ever been in. so should i get them?

Martin
09-06-2005, 20:06
yes.... 20-30 bhp without timing or remap sounds a bit dodge though? Speak up Ben...

bigjim
09-06-2005, 20:08
thats what i was thinking but thats what he said. 20bhp worst case scenario. how long does it take to fit cams at a professional garage roughly?

Martin
09-06-2005, 20:12
Ask Monkey or check his cams thread he had his fitted at his local garage...

KingStromba
09-06-2005, 20:20
Cams = 10 to 15 BHP, unless you go really wild and then the car wont idle properly.

Martin
09-06-2005, 20:30
Mine has 140 bhp atw (circa 170-175 bhp) Cams, timed, mapped, manifold,de-cat & zorst....

bigjim
09-06-2005, 20:31
so basically hes talking bollocks then. im waiting to hear what thejesus says cause hes got them

Martin
09-06-2005, 20:34
His cams are of a better spec than the ones I have apparantly....and Jesus's cars does look very quick...tbh I would'nt worry about claimed power. Just rest assured it will be a lot quicker!

KingStromba
09-06-2005, 20:51
Better spec? LOL

Martin
09-06-2005, 22:01
Aye I think Jesus said they had higher lift and duration or summut I'm no tech expert! lol

KingStromba
09-06-2005, 22:12
Doesnt that just mean wilder? Higher lift, longer durtation = more power, shitter idle?

Martin
09-06-2005, 22:23
Maybe but my idle is pretty lumpy ...lol

heres a vid craig did....

http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=bananazed

KingStromba
09-06-2005, 22:28
That is lumpy. Sounds nice. Mine is smooth like a babies bottom :D

FlamingMonkey
09-06-2005, 23:19
Well it took the guy doing my cams, who has NEVER done it before took most of the day, but he did change the cam belt, alternator belt and the two little pulleys at the bottom which apparently is an ass to do, a specialist would do it a lot quicker I would imagine

J o n
10-06-2005, 08:15
20-30bhp is prolly about right, but that would be once mapped with all the little breathing mods on... afterall, who in their right mind would fit cams and leave all the breathing on the car std... lol... your looking at a 180bhp Willy engine then... which i'd say is pretty conservative power figure, seeing how 200+bhp cups and 172's cant get near the Mk1's with the same mods with the exception of a few.

the idle on mine is lumpyish, but sounds mint. the car is just the same to drive as it was before, although it does judder below 2k depending on what gear your in, but that will stop once mapped as on 2 lives.

performance wise I dont think you can argue, cams alone have made a nice difference, a shocking difference in fact. for the little amount of mods I have I can beat cars that should be pasting me. list so far of owned cars includes:

CTR - about 4 up to now (at least 4 witnesses to say i absolutely mullered them too :D )
Scooby Bug eye - pulled away with Wayne and Northy in the car much to our and his surprise...
Scooby Classic (tuned) - my mates Scooby, pull about 3 cars from 50-135 (my top end)
Another Scoooby classic - Kid at work has a std V-reg classic... it gets smoked, will just keep pulling away from him...
VR6 4 motion - new and old shape... dusted, but could do over the older VR6 as standard...
182 - only a really short blast but i seemed to be pulling away nicely from bottom of 2nd to mid 3rd... would like to test again tho.

I also did okay against 2 live's car, but he had a passenger slowing him down! ;)

For engine tuning in the future i'll only be using BenR to be honest, his cams are pretty damn special and there not timed in yet and the car is running standard 6500rpm limit on standard ECU... so it's looking very good at the moment. Hoping to have a very very fast 1/4 mile capable Williams. The people that have been in it, driven it and raced it have all said it should be easily capable of a mid to low 14 second 1/4 as it is now... which I would gladly take, as that's rapid for the mods.

Your choice at the end of the day, but if the NW lads are impressed I dont think you can argue, as you know what us lot are like! lol

2 live
10-06-2005, 09:48
or u could go the route thats leading the way at the mo.....

which is kents rn2002 cams, chip wizards re-map

slightly less duration and lift than jesus' , and only time, mapping and timing set up will tell if jesus' is actually quicker than mine.

altho amount of time it took to do thejesus' and knowing its been done as a kinda demo car.i think a few little extra tweeks mite have made their way onto the car.but thats just my thinking lol

its kinda hard to judge really, cos jesus has had serious gearbox diffrences, first the diesel then the valver boxes, both diff to the willy box. and the outcomes of the little tests weve done have differed a lot even between the boxes

admittedly he is a lot closer to me now , but i never really got to have a do with him on the willy engine and valver box, who knows maybe it is the meg btm end makin the cars so quick :twisted:

J o n
10-06-2005, 10:01
that's the other thing, i really need to do the bridge test near me to find out for certain if this engine is faster than the last one :twisted:

as regards the gearbox my ingear speeds are exactly the same as Northy's all the way from 1st to 5th we were changing and hitting limiters at the same time :?

not sure about the extra ticks that Ben may have done... but if so, schweet :lol: i'll av some of that!

2 live
10-06-2005, 10:18
lol^^^^^^^ so northys is exactly as quick as urs??

J o n
10-06-2005, 10:24
lol^^^^^^^ so northys is exactly as quick as urs??

it was ;)

that was when mine was standard but with valver gearbox... well, std apart from zorst n decat.... paper filter even too! lol

KingStromba
10-06-2005, 11:32
or u could go the route thats leading the way at the mo.....

which is kents rn2002 cams, chip wizards re-map

slightly less duration and lift than jesus' , and only time, mapping and timing set up will tell if jesus' is actually quicker than mine.

altho amount of time it took to do thejesus' and knowing its been done as a kinda demo car.i think a few little extra tweeks mite have made their way onto the car.but thats just my thinking lol

its kinda hard to judge really, cos jesus has had serious gearbox diffrences, first the diesel then the valver boxes, both diff to the willy box. and the outcomes of the little tests weve done have differed a lot even between the boxes

admittedly he is a lot closer to me now , but i never really got to have a do with him on the willy engine and valver box, who knows maybe it is the meg btm end makin the cars so quick :twisted:


I thought the Robbie B, forgeed pistons, piper cams and Hillpower remap were leading the way? 190+ bhp :D

FlamingMonkey
10-06-2005, 11:35
or u could go the route thats leading the way at the mo.....

which is kents rn2002 cams, chip wizards re-map

slightly less duration and lift than jesus' , and only time, mapping and timing set up will tell if jesus' is actually quicker than mine.

altho amount of time it took to do thejesus' and knowing its been done as a kinda demo car.i think a few little extra tweeks mite have made their way onto the car.but thats just my thinking lol

its kinda hard to judge really, cos jesus has had serious gearbox diffrences, first the diesel then the valver boxes, both diff to the willy box. and the outcomes of the little tests weve done have differed a lot even between the boxes

admittedly he is a lot closer to me now , but i never really got to have a do with him on the willy engine and valver box, who knows maybe it is the meg btm end makin the cars so quick :twisted:


I thought the Robbie B, forgeed pistons, piper cams and Hillpower remap were leading the way? 190+ bhp :D

No offence to the guy, but that Vid looked to me as the 172 was catching him, difference between e.g 2lives and 172 is a lot more noticable IMHO

northy
10-06-2005, 11:39
lol^^^^^^^ so northys is exactly as quick as urs??

it was ;)

that was when mine was standard but with valver gearbox... well, std apart from zorst n decat.... paper filter even too! lol

when mine had the decat and manifold only to jesus with decat and cat back we were 100% equal...there was 1 funny run when i pulled a car length on him in 4th.

But we never had a comparrison with my exhaust on...monkey and i did (was when u were with me 2live) and i was keeping up - so it has made a great improvement. Never had chance on the way to FCS as he was so busy with you....

but now he has cams and megane block....and ive had a cat back....im looking forward to a good comparrison. And boy do the jesus and my comparrisons good hey mate ? :D

KingStromba
10-06-2005, 11:40
LOL, yeah sure, a standard 172 was staying with it. Of course Robbie must have been trying. Not like there was alot of traffic around or anything :roll:

Ive actaully been in this car with Nick Hill driving, while he was mapping the fuel. With zero miles on the car, it was very quick. Read very quick.

Since then it has been remapped and had a relocated induction kit and of course its been run in.

I doubt any standard 172 could stay with it in a true driving situation. Robbie is also a prety handly driver by all accounts.

Im sure we will see when he 1/4 miles it, but him and Nick are hoping for mid 13's as a start.


We will see.

FlamingMonkey
10-06-2005, 11:48
Like I said I'm not slating the guy or Nick Hill, all I'm saying is that the vid either doesn't show how impressive it is or the car is not very impressive.

I can only go from what I see/hear.

KingStromba
10-06-2005, 11:49
Is he meant to accelerate through other cars? :shock:

northy
10-06-2005, 11:50
i will watch the video when i get home and cast my vote.... :lol:

FlamingMonkey
10-06-2005, 11:55
Is he meant to accelerate through other cars? :shock:

34 secs in dual carriage way no cars, 172 is catching, shove that

Zollo
10-06-2005, 12:00
And the 172 is two-up isn't it?

KingStromba
10-06-2005, 12:36
LOL, yeah sure. Maybe he didnt want to lose his license? Maybe his engine was cold? Maybe the was giving it half throttle? Maybe he was nearly out of petrol and talking it easy? Maybe the pope was on board and he didnt want to scare him?

I could go on all day. Suffive to say if you honestly think a Williams with forged pistons, cams, fully ported head and remap isnt faster in a straight line than a standard 172, then i think you should try www.cliosport.net.

FlamingMonkey
10-06-2005, 13:00
hehe love the excuses, still catching him though :wink:

J o n
10-06-2005, 13:10
lol, yeah our races are the best Northy... mainly cos they were so even that we had to race more to find out which was quicker :D

that was weird when you pulled on me in 4th, it was as if i suddenly had a passenger and the initial pull off i lost a length and it wouldn't come back :(

however, the first set of runs on the first meet both 2 up I seemed to be marginally quicker that day... :?

in either case the surprising thing was that we were changing gears at the same time and had the same top end... !!! Madness...! lol

I want to see this video now too :twisted:

mmmmm forged pistons.... *drooooooool*

2 live
10-06-2005, 17:08
yeah tbh robs right. in the video the willy doesnt look impressive at all from a speed point of view. the 172 looks to be staying with it easily....

if rob wasnt booting it , then fair play, but id get the rings rechecked for all the smoke

if he was..again.looks can be deceptive, but on that vid id say its std willy pace tbh

KingStromba
10-06-2005, 17:33
Depends when the vid was done. Rob ran against his mates standard williams and was only marginally faster. Couldnt understand why until me found a six inch crack in his centre section.

Can anyone actually hear me here? Forged pistons produce smoke, as they burn more oil. Cant get round that. You get forged pistons. You get smoke. The two go hand in hand.

Funny how some are quick to think his car is slow from a vid that is clearly in heavy traffic, and we have no idea when the vid was taken, or any of the circumstances. Its just a video of two cars travelling down the road, yet for some reason some have chosen to conclude that the car must be slow. TBH those cars on the FCS Northwest convoy dont look quick, probably i conclude, because they arent really racing.

Robs been karting since he was 10, so id be pretty confident he would wipe the grins of most of your faces round a track. Anyway we will see. And i will enjoy watching. :D

2 live
10-06-2005, 17:40
bout rite for u mate..........watchin lol

KingStromba
10-06-2005, 17:42
The only track day ive been to, you were a spectator too. So less of that please. :D

2 live
10-06-2005, 18:31
lol..but as mark has said...brunters is ok.but not exactly challenging.been there done that lol

and the only time iv seen nick hill have 1 of his cars at a mag featured r/r he was so embarrassed by the poor results of his mods he pulled it from the mag article......go figure

KingStromba
10-06-2005, 18:35
You yourself have said rolling road results are meanigless, so that point is mute.

2 live
10-06-2005, 18:42
but when someones claiming big gains, as he was at the time, and then to be running lower (by about 10bhp) than the lowest std car there.bit embarrassing really....


like the time i was told a 190 bhp williams from bbpt was gunna rip my car a new ass at york the other year..........it failed miserably


if ur gunna shout n make claims on r/r performances etc then u shud back it up as u say mate....which i believe i have....to my knowledge there isnt a faster williams down the strip, on the road than mine.

and i will be happy to partake in any test to prove otherwise, be it r/r track day, road, strip......u pay il play lol

if ur that confident in nicks abilities u back up your claims and pay to prove me wrong. hehe

KingStromba
10-06-2005, 18:44
Has your car ever been beaten by anything? Maybe NASA would be interested in the technology in it, which is clearly not known to anyone else on the planet.

northy
10-06-2005, 18:45
Oooo i'd love to get a car quicker than yours 2live...but u need to upgrade the 0159 to a williams 3....then we are on a level playing field..heehee :wink:

2 live
10-06-2005, 18:59
lol.....yes mate i have been beaten plenty

but not by many clios

the 2 golfs were fun..the vr12 and the audi quatro powered one .mk1 green 1 im sure uv seen it.felt a bit inadequate lining up against that

and the mk3 i think twin vr6 powered dubsport beast....which tbh i dint think i did too bad against..he dint seem to pull away after the initial 1 1/2 sec 4wd shove up the strip

plenty other stuff have beaten me.......im not invincible..dont claim to be...but jus havent been overly impressed with so-called respected tuners efforts at getting good fast engines when i can build me own that can hold their heads up high in the circles of tuners...in fact can look down on them

KingStromba
10-06-2005, 19:03
I would suggest you are a better driver than most mate. I really dont think your car is all that fast, not trying to put it down, but its not 400 BHP supra. I think you ability to beat most people is a combination of your agression and skill as a driver and others lask of such qualities.


Dont get me wrong, im sure you did as good a job yuning your car as any one else could. But just because you beat car A, from tuning house B, doesnt mean your car is faster. Probably means your a better driver than driver C.

northy
10-06-2005, 19:09
I would suggest you are a better driver than most mate. I really dont think your car is all that fast, not trying to put it down, but its not 400 BHP supra. I think you ability to beat most people is a combination of your agression and skill as a driver and others lask of such qualities.


Dont get me wrong, im sure you did as good a job yuning your car as any one else could. But just because you beat car A, from tuning house B, doesnt mean your car is faster. Probably means your a better driver than driver C.

Funny thing is - 0159 will see off a supra that runs at york...lol

KingStromba
10-06-2005, 19:23
Nahh mate, good driver in a 400 BHP supras going to see mid 4's to 60, and 0-100 in 12 or lower i would guess. Your mad if you think a Williams would beat it.


Dont beleive the hype.

J o n
10-06-2005, 19:28
I would suggest you are a better driver than most mate. I really dont think your car is all that fast

:shock: not that fast... right, your obviously on a wind up tip

KingStromba
10-06-2005, 19:31
Its a 180 BHP Clio. Not a 400 BHP supra.

Its fastish, nimble, and jon is a good driver. But my sister could pull on it in an auto 400 bhp supra.


Lets get things in perspective.

2 live
10-06-2005, 19:35
perspective.......400bhp supra....how much do they weigh??

im not saying il beat one mate.altho it has been known..as have 350z s cossies scoobs etc etc etc.but u know best huh lol :wink:

KingStromba
10-06-2005, 19:36
Mate good driver in a 350Z will hand you your ass on a plate. End of.

J o n
10-06-2005, 19:39
Jon that's all this seems to be, Stromba knows best, his word is law, if you dont agree and are fortunate to have proof to back it up he'll make the rest up in his head and pretend that you said something you didn't and then hammer you with a tirade or verbose nonsense :roll:

Mark_Ritchspeed
10-06-2005, 19:40
Maybe we'll see, if we still have the Supra next month, I may bring it to the pod along with the Clio.

To get it to 60mph in mid 4's will be ****ing difficult though. It just wheelspins if you nail it off the line. Once its over 40-50mph though it seriously does shift though.

I havent ever measured them against one another, but I reckon a mildly modded Evo2 with less than 300bhp would murder the Supra down the strip.

Zollo
10-06-2005, 19:49
Standard UK (320bhp) Supra will do it in 13.3. :shock:

Martin
10-06-2005, 19:51
Mate good driver in a 350Z will hand you your ass on a plate. End of.

ROFPMSL!!

Mark_Ritchspeed
10-06-2005, 19:58
13.3 isnt that quick I dont think. I have heard of sub 300bhp Evos doing it in early 12's. All down to traction I suppose.

Oh and weight, cos the Supras are pretty hefty. Still love it though. :twisted:

Never been on the strip myself, but am pretty good at launching anyway. I'm still surprised when I go rallying at our local venue and everyone wheelspins like **** off the line. I only get the slightest chirp from my tyres and am looking for 2nd gear, whilst they are still trying to gain traction in 1st.

Same for hairpins. They all bang it down into first and handbrake, when I just go down into 2nd give it a flick and use the torque to power out the corner.

KingStromba
10-06-2005, 20:00
Jon that's all this seems to be, Stromba knows best, his word is law, if you dont agree and are fortunate to have proof to back it up he'll make the rest up in his head and pretend that you said something you didn't and then hammer you with a tirade or verbose nonsense :roll:


Not atall, this site is just getting like cliosport. I jest that the Williams is the best thing on the road, but its just that a jest.

We need to keep a sence of perspective. The Williams is a fastish, very nimble and capable car, that car see off alot of more superior machinery in the right hands and on the right roads.

But to claim it cam beat a 400 BHP Supra down a 1/4 miles is just childish, and makes the club look immature. Supras are capable of 12's or 13's as far as i remember. And you forget that it would be after 1/4 mile that the supra would continue to pull away as you bounced on the limiter in 5th gear.

Im sure 2lives car is fast, of that i have no doubt, but other people on here own equally fast Clios. You can make challenges about 'well prove it or shut up' but, i suggest it is defamitory of other members to constantly be reminded that their cars are in some way inferior, because they went to a place not on the Northern possey's approved list. There is a world south of Stoke you know, and the people in it are just as intelligent.

Mark_Ritchspeed
10-06-2005, 20:03
Dont think mines as fast as 2Lives in a straight line. Give me some twisties and a few braking zones though. :D

In fact, Jon's not having his brake kit until after Anglessey, just in case hes quicker than me. :twisted:

KingStromba
10-06-2005, 20:04
LOL. Sell it him with really bad pads :D

2 live
10-06-2005, 20:08
lol.unfortunately mate...its the brakes or anglesey at the min.lol

so ur rite.if im there i wont have the brakes....but if im not...i will........

im thinkin more along the lines of....i need brakes .than .......i need track time and days off.......


hehe



btw thanx for the flame comment hehe.not seen em meself yet......WEZ#cough cough#

Mark_Ritchspeed
10-06-2005, 20:08
Dont think there any really bad pads that will fit though. I could always soak them in oil for a week or two before giving them to Jon. :twisted:

J o n
10-06-2005, 20:41
Jon that's all this seems to be, Stromba knows best, his word is law, if you dont agree and are fortunate to have proof to back it up he'll make the rest up in his head and pretend that you said something you didn't and then hammer you with a tirade or verbose nonsense :roll:


Not atall, this site is just getting like cliosport. I jest that the Williams is the best thing on the road, but its just that a jest.

We need to keep a sence of perspective. The Williams is a fastish, very nimble and capable car, that car see off alot of more superior machinery in the right hands and on the right roads.

But to claim it cam beat a 400 BHP Supra down a 1/4 miles is just childish, and makes the club look immature. Supras are capable of 12's or 13's as far as i remember. And you forget that it would be after 1/4 mile that the supra would continue to pull away as you bounced on the limiter in 5th gear.

Im sure 2lives car is fast, of that i have no doubt, but other people on here own equally fast Clios. You can make challenges about 'well prove it or shut up' but, i suggest it is defamitory of other members to constantly be reminded that their cars are in some way inferior, because they went to a place not on the Northern possey's approved list. There is a world south of Stoke you know, and the people in it are just as intelligent.

The sites not turning into anything, it's getting Clio Sport in the sense that people cant post what they want without you ruining their threads, but apart from that there's no similarity to be drawn. The reason I put the thread up about the cams was because I had several PM's on Clio Sport and on here from people interested in the cams and Ben wouldn't post here because of your attitude... now stand back a second and tell me your a reasonable person?... hopefully they wont listen to you, as to be honest mate, you dont know what your talking about and even have the ignorance to say that Jon's cars isn't quick, it's the driver. In which case he could do the same in your car? Could he ****. If anyone is making this club immature it's you i'm afraid to say, you bitch people out, create posts so you can insult someone personally, slag of anything your clueless about and talk all this shit about science when there's **** all scientific in you arguements... in fact theres nothing even remotely articulate in your posts, you talk and argue with yourself for **** sake... who mentioned a 400bhp supra??? YOU DID!!! Who said a clio beat a 400bhp Supra? YOU DID. 2 live beat one down the strip... thats all, but you somehow fabricated some scenario of a clio beating a 400bhp Supra and from where I ask? And yes, the Supra would have bigger top end... did you scientifically prove this? pmsl
No one has said anyone's car's are better or anything of the sort Rob, you've fabricated this from somewhere and also wound yourself up about it in the process and your insecurities are showing and it's ****ing embarrassing to read mate, your making the club look like a joke with all this bollocks. Sorry, but someone had to say it, I feel like a dick having to even respond and write this shit. All people deserve a little bit of respect Rob, you show none yet expect to be treated differently? I mean if I wanted to be difficult and petty I could **** all your posts up when you say how good Nick is and make out that he's shit, but out of respect for you I dont. I'm a very tolerant person as you know and most things dont really bother me, but your being difficult for the sake of it and I'd like to know what your problem is and why you feel the need to slag people and things in general off? it's not isolated either, as anytime anything has been mentioned on my car there's been the obligatory comment on it blowing up or whatever because Ben did it... I even got the mechanical report in the vein hope it may stop... but no it continues and why? all because of some childish hatred... I give up, the constand digs and jokes were funny at first, now it's getting nasty and personal... so **** that, i'll not be a part of it.

KingStromba
10-06-2005, 20:56
I shall go to sainsburys and answer this post on my return

KingStromba
10-06-2005, 21:55
It takes two to argue.

Blaming me for being argumentative when both you and 2live have been responding to my posts all day with your own critisism and opinions, is a little unfair i feel. You two have been just as argumentative and each has responded to all of my posts. Like i said it takes two to argue.

As for Ben. Well as site for suposed enthusiasts, i would have thought claims of 30 BHP from a camshaft in a F7R, while maintaining driveability, would have been met with the same reaction that i gave. Obviously this site is starting to get in bed with GDI and Ben just as Cliosport is. Lets con the newbies into thinking that 30 BHP is realistic. Well i dont want to be part of that. It stinks.

Ive explained where i stand on the issue of Chipwizard and have stated that i am perfectly prepared to accept they are a very reputable company, but i refuse to accept that anything he does is more than a fine tuning adjustment to the car. Again i would have thought that an enthusiasts site would have shown a little more realism and a little less hyperbole with respect to giving newbies a more accurate representation of the truth.

northy
10-06-2005, 22:24
It takes two to argue.

Blaming me for being argumentative when both you and 2live have been responding to my posts all day with your own critisism and opinions, is a little unfair i feel. You two have been just as argumentative and each has responded to all of my posts. Like i said it takes two to argue.

As for Ben. Well as site for suposed enthusiasts, i would have thought claims of 30 BHP from a camshaft in a F7R, while maintaining driveability, would have been met with the same reaction that i gave. Obviously this site is starting to get in bed with GDI and Ben just as Cliosport is. Lets con the newbies into thinking that 30 BHP is realistic. Well i dont want to be part of that. It stinks.

Ive explained where i stand on the issue of Chipwizard and have stated that i am perfectly prepared to accept they are a very reputable company, but i refuse to accept that anything he does is more than a fine tuning adjustment to the car. Again i would have thought that an enthusiasts site would have shown a little more realism and a little less hyperbole with respect to giving newbies a more accurate representation of the truth.

U know what the funny thing is there rob...thats all he did...a little less fuel at top end, more in the middle revs and altered the limiter.

END OF.

And now it flys...100% proven and better. Tis where mine will be going. All i want is a fine tune and limiter raising to 7200rpm.

KingStromba
10-06-2005, 22:32
If you actaully read what i have been posting, that is what ive said all along.

2 live
10-06-2005, 23:48
and it is exactly the same as ul get anywhere else tho mate

apart from wayne took the basic map, and remapped to his own spec and used his expertise to get the best out of it.

some places dont do that for evry engine

Purple
11-06-2005, 01:14
Stromba,
After reading most of the threads on cams and mapping, you actually make quite good points but it's the way you put them across that makes it very hard to understand and raises people's blood pressure unnecessarily.

The claimed 30bhp gain yet driveable cams does sounds quite unrealistic to me too. But someone posted the "before & after" 400m terminal speeds. It was quite decent, though, whether it really equates to 30bhp gains; we will need the "G-tech" boys to work that out. But I suspect, for most people, that is enough proof that those are good cams. Granted companies like Piper & Kent would have much larger user testimonials for sure, but AWT has to start somewhere. Suggest you try out that car and report back your test after the drive. That would make a good read.

As for ECU map tweaking, I think it's a mostly down to the use of vague terms like, "massive improvements", "100% better" which, I think, is a reflection on how happy the owners are about the gain, and not a direct representation of bhp or torque increase. So, even if it's only 5 bhp gain on the high and flatter torqure response; these guys are just plain happy about the improvements. No need to shoot them down for their choice of words.

Hey, now if you really, really want to have a rant about unscientific, mumbo jumbo products with profit margins that will make your eyes bleed, you should go on Audiophile forums and rant on Cables and Interconnects! :D OK, I am done. Over & out. 8)

KingStromba
11-06-2005, 01:23
8)

VIPERONE
11-06-2005, 03:23
i second 2 live, there is no better man in the business for remapping vehicles than Wayne Schofield of chip Wizards.
top marques are his forte' and racing cars...however he's mopre than happy to work on Williams'

KingStromba
11-06-2005, 10:05
:roll: