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Wobba
13-01-2008, 16:54
Well, actually it's more like BOOM Headgasket!

:cry:

I thought I had a water leak the other day as the temp show very hot, so I pulled over and put more water in to get home. Thought I had fixed the problem, and fixed several othe things this weekend, plus refurbished the skuttle panel and the Bonnet grill and lovely matt black (looks great!). Took the car out which was really going well. Then, bang.

RAC filled up the water tank and said to limp to some servoces off the M27 but I had stop as it was clear to me the gasket had blown, with all the steam coming out the exhaust and lumpy engine :cry:

I have a horrid feeling the water pump could have gone, would this have caused overheating and HG failure?

If so I guess I'll have to replace that, the HG, possible head skim, and and may as well do cambelt at same time?

This is expensive right? I can't do it myself, I simply don't have the tools or space. Gutted.

dannyb1986
13-01-2008, 18:49
cam belt would need to be changed anyway, could be the water pumps gone that causing the head to warp, if your not doing it yourself then yeah will probly be exspensive.

drsmith1979
13-01-2008, 18:57
there is a way of doing it yourself, whip the engine out and get the head off, i would send it to an engineering shop, have it pressure tested and then skimmed, then inspect the block carefully, get a straight rule or set square and see if the block has warped or been damaged... then simply replace the water pump, cam belt etc.... bit of a hassle to get it all out but once out i cant see if being too hard to be fair

Coops
13-01-2008, 20:09
done it twice now on my tiny ass drive, easy enough man but does take me a bit of time as i cant resist a project excuse

sorry to hear bout urs tho, get her fixed asap man!

Wobba
13-01-2008, 21:04
:( ye, I'll consider taking it apart myself. I may just pull the whole thing out and stick a whole 2.0L in instead.

Daz.
13-01-2008, 21:10
:( ye, I'll consider taking it apart myself. I may just pull the whole thing out and stick a whole 2.0L in instead.

:goodposting: :agree: :doit:

Coops
13-01-2008, 21:44
gave my tuppence on c16v mate, get it done as Daz recommends, i whole heartedly concuur :twisted:

Wobba
14-01-2008, 01:29
I'll ask my work if they'll pay for it. If not I quit!

Wobba
14-01-2008, 13:32
Quoted a ballpark figure of £800 by a local garage, lol. I'm in the wrong line of work!

Wobba
14-01-2008, 15:05
And my second quote: £950!!!

Wobba
14-01-2008, 15:05
Would this fit?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280188318420&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:Watchlink:middle:uk

schakal
14-01-2008, 15:45
Would this fit?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280188318420&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:Watchlink:middle:uk

not a straight swap it wont be ,but is do-able

MAXIBOY
14-01-2008, 16:40
yes fit the 1.8 head and away to go... :D

Wobba
14-01-2008, 16:56
So, what, take the valve head bit off with the inlets and stick it on the megane block?

MAXIBOY
14-01-2008, 17:44
yes reuse the valver top end on the megane bottom end for a nice 2.0 litre conversion

Wobba
14-01-2008, 19:44
Hmmm...tempting! I'd have to do the bloody gasket anyway and pump etc I guess. Would it be a straight swap of the bottom end? I mean, would the gearbox etc be ok and the pipes all fit into the right places?

I think I'll have to start a thread in the mechanicals section...

Lunner
14-01-2008, 20:10
I have a valver head going free (open to donations tho;)) if needed, collection from midlands

Wobba
14-01-2008, 20:16
Well, I just popped out and had a quick look at the car. I got it started, after we thought the battery had shorted out due to all the water over it...so thats good. No plumes of white smoke, though it was a little lumpy. The water in the system has probably vacated the area around the engine anyway so there was no water vapour being sent out the rear.

After running for 30 secs it seemed to settle down and idle fine, and I spotted one of the big coolant hoses had shifted itself down its pipe a fair way:

If you see here, ite NOT THE ARROW but the big green clip to the left of the arrow which has shifted, and I think may be the cause of the leak in the first place. Am i right in thinking these clips can be taken off with a set of pliers?

I may try and refit it and refill the water and run the car...could it be that the pipe leaking and engine overheating caused the lumpiness and tons of steam and made it look like a HG failure? Pretty sure it's HG, I am just praying to God it may be something simple...

Lunner
14-01-2008, 20:20
Yeah use pliers or mole grips to remove that and replace with a jubilee clip, that may well have caused the coolant leak, but if its blowing out loads of steam then sounds like the head gasket is fookered

Wobba
14-01-2008, 20:44
Yeah use pliers or mole grips to remove that and replace with a jubilee clip, that may well have caused the coolant leak, but if its blowing out loads of steam then sounds like the head gasket is fookered

Yea I have just checked more thoroughly and there's a ton of mayo inside the oil filler cap and dipstick :(

It's fooked alright. Need hew gasket, so may get a meggy BE and do the lot in one go...2.0L here we come!

Wobba
14-01-2008, 20:45
Well, I just popped out and had a quick look at the car. I got it started, after we thought the battery had shorted out due to all the water over it...so thats good. No plumes of white smoke, though it was a little lumpy. The water in the system has probably vacated the area around the engine anyway so there was no water vapour being sent out the rear.

After running for 30 secs it seemed to settle down and idle fine, and I spotted one of the big coolant hoses had shifted itself down its pipe a fair way:

If you see here, ite NOT THE ARROW but the big green clip to the left of the arrow which has shifted, and I think may be the cause of the leak in the first place. Am i right in thinking these clips can be taken off with a set of pliers?

I may try and refit it and refill the water and run the car...could it be that the pipe leaking and engine overheating caused the lumpiness and tons of steam and made it look like a HG failure? Pretty sure it's HG, I am just praying to God it may be something simple...

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w102/barneywobba/My%2016V/pipe2.jpg

Forgot piccy...

summeh
14-01-2008, 21:29
Gutted mate.

DIY I recon, best way really. If you had all the parts required you should be able to get it done in a weekend, assuming zero knowledge. Having said that though you'll need to get the head skimmed.

parts from gsf:

head skim ~ £40
head bolt set £22.50
head gasket set £49.50
water pump £21.50
cam belt and tensioner set £75
coolant ~ 10quid

So thats 220quid in parts for the things you want to replace.

If you go the 2L/donar engine route, then i'd recommend doing cambelt/tensioners, and water pump anyway. So thats another 100quid on top of your engine cost.

summeh
14-01-2008, 21:32
there is a way of doing it yourself, whip the engine out and get the head off, i would send it to an engineering shop, have it pressure tested and then skimmed, then inspect the block carefully, get a straight rule or set square and see if the block has warped or been damaged... then simply replace the water pump, cam belt etc.... bit of a hassle to get it all out but once out i cant see if being too hard to be fair

I doubt very much the block would be damaged, so no need to get that out. If you didn't let it get to hot then damage to the head should be minimal as well, how quickly did you shut the engine off, did the red warning light even come on?

Wobba
14-01-2008, 21:49
The warning light was not on, but the temp gauge was near maxxed out. I think I spotted it in time.

I am seriously thinking of going the F7R bottom end route. I will have to add up the costs, which is the major prohibiting factor here.

To be safe I will change the cambelt and water pump.

I also assume for a F7R D 710 I will need a 2.0L ECU. Will a Willy ECU work?

I think I will do this myself. I have most tools except a torque wrench and level measure. I am not too sure if I can do the 2.0L conversion myself though...not got a clue about pistons and I would need heavy lifting gear to get the bugger out too!

Justin offered to help me at his place with my clutch, and he has a lifter I think. I may ask him nicely if I can do it there when he gets back and after I have all the bits, and do the clutch as well!

****in hell, I bought the car to keep me busy as a project...certainly got what I paid for :lol:

summeh
14-01-2008, 22:15
With the 710 are you going to use the valver head on it? I think that's 2 steps forward and 1 step back. Although if your concerned about costs then I can see why you'd do this. When you go for the skim, you might want to look into getting the head worked as well :wink: Or see if you can source a 700 head.

Not sure what ECU you'd use, I think a valver ECU can run it you just need a William's map? (I've got a 2.0L map chip you can have).

When doing an engine swap you'll also need a few extra sundries:

gearbox oil ~ £20
engine oil ~ £20
drive shaft roll pin 50p
coolant

cant think of anything else.

By the time you tot it all up, its getting close to those quotes you had ;)

By the way, Alison's Pug blew its headgasket a few years back (nothing to do with the fact I ragged it around donnington), got it fixed at a garage in Portsmouth (olive green motors) for 500quid iirc. Mind you its a lot easier to work on engine than the clio 16v. Also have you tried Rentech? Don't think he'd be cheap cheap, but he'd do a good job.

Wobba
15-01-2008, 10:37
Thanks for the breakdown Matt. I'll stick it in a spreadsheet and let you know about the 2.0L chip! Cheers!

Whatever I do, I have to wait a week or so for payday. Xmas cleaned me out.

I am still going to fix other minor bits on the car in the meantime as I wont be scrapping it. It's a real shame as the engine as it was was a screamer :D

Allan
15-01-2008, 11:17
By the way, Alison's Pug blew its headgasket a few years back (nothing to do with the fact I ragged it around donnington), got it fixed at a garage in Portsmouth (olive green motors) for 500quid iirc. Mind you its a lot easier to work on engine than the clio 16v. Also have you tried Rentech? Don't think he'd be cheap cheap, but he'd do a good job.

Ragged around donnington lol, it only managed about 10 laps :D
Tbh that pug is quite quick for what it is..

we should have taken my valver out :D

That was the week ARJ had crashed his clio iirc and didn't want go on track, and the night after you sand blasted your bottom end :D

ah the memories


Your other option is to get that whole megane engine and have the head machined to take a dizzy then you could drop it in and run i belive.
its a 710 so not the chain timed jobbie, so i think you would be good there too :D

All depends how much money you want to spend on it..

Wobba
15-01-2008, 14:39
Your other option is to get that whole megane engine and have the head machined to take a dizzy then you could drop it in and run i belive.
its a 710 so not the chain timed jobbie, so i think you would be good there too :D

All depends how much money you want to spend on it..

Yea, I have thought about that but I heave heard that the dizzy conversion requires a couple of other bits and can be a pain to do!

I may buy a complete engine, and if so I can use the 16v head in the meantime and consider the possibilities of the 710 head...will give me time to send it off and sort it etc too. whats the advantage of the 710 head? More torque I guess...

Cheers!

summeh
15-01-2008, 20:04
the megane head has bigger inlet valves than the williams head, not sure if the cams are different. Williams head has bigger inlet valves than the valver.

I had my williams head worked by BenR @ AWT to fit megane inlet valves.

Lunner
15-01-2008, 20:17
By the way, Alison's Pug blew its headgasket a few years back (nothing to do with the fact I ragged it around donnington), got it fixed at a garage in Portsmouth (olive green motors) for 500quid iirc. Mind you its a lot easier to work on engine than the clio 16v. Also have you tried Rentech? Don't think he'd be cheap cheap, but he'd do a good job.

Ragged around donnington lol, it only managed about 10 laps :D
Tbh that pug is quite quick for what it is..

we should have taken my valver out :D

That was the week ARJ had crashed his clio iirc and didn't want go on track, and the night after you sand blasted your bottom end :D

ah the memories


Your other option is to get that whole megane engine and have the head machined to take a dizzy then you could drop it in and run i belive.
its a 710 so not the chain timed jobbie, so i think you would be good there too :D

All depends how much money you want to spend on it..

I remember, you said lets compare my 1.8 8v against your 1.8 8v RSi, i went out in the lead and never saw you again after the first 2 corners :lol:

MAXIBOY
15-01-2008, 21:01
Your other option is to get that whole megane engine and have the head machined to take a dizzy then you could drop it in and run i belive.
its a 710 so not the chain timed jobbie, so i think you would be good there too :D

All depends how much money you want to spend on it..

Yea, I have thought about that but I heave heard that the dizzy conversion requires a couple of other bits and can be a pain to do!

I may buy a complete engine, and if so I can use the 16v head in the meantime and consider the possibilities of the 710 head...will give me time to send it off and sort it etc too. whats the advantage of the 710 head? More torque I guess...

Cheers!

it has a smaller better design inlet port as well as larger valves and is better if you ever get round to running throttle bodies other wise not worth the hassle. though as summer you could use the inlets in a big valve conversion on a 1.8 head...

Wobba
16-01-2008, 10:57
Your other option is to get that whole megane engine and have the head machined to take a dizzy then you could drop it in and run i belive.
its a 710 so not the chain timed jobbie, so i think you would be good there too :D

All depends how much money you want to spend on it..

Yea, I have thought about that but I heave heard that the dizzy conversion requires a couple of other bits and can be a pain to do!

I may buy a complete engine, and if so I can use the 16v head in the meantime and consider the possibilities of the 710 head...will give me time to send it off and sort it etc too. whats the advantage of the 710 head? More torque I guess...

Cheers!

it has a smaller better design inlet port as well as larger valves and is better if you ever get round to running throttle bodies other wise not worth the hassle. though as summer you could use the inlets in a big valve conversion on a 1.8 head...

Ok, well I am into territory I know nothing about here. I have to do more research.

I am still very aprehensive about taking out my engine! Can I take the head off, then the BE, or do I have to take the whole lot out in one go? Or does it not matter.

I may whip the head off this weekend (if the rain bloody well stops for once) and take a look at the HG. Cant be that hard taking it off cant it? To be honest, I am at a point I just dont care, I'm just gonna start undoing everything and give it a hard pull.

Robb
16-01-2008, 16:39
You can do this but if you are going to change your engine then it's easier to take it all out. Just a headgasket change then put a jack on the far left side of the sump, undo the top mount and then take the head of. Pretty easy job to do! I'd advise having someone with you though. The exhaust manifold can get stuck on the small heatshield by the side and start moving the bottom end up slightly. Just bend push it back and it should clear it fine!

Robb
16-01-2008, 16:40
Left side = drivers side just so you dont get confused :P

Wobba
17-01-2008, 15:21
Well, lowest quote I have had comes in at about £670, including cambelt and water pump and flushing etc.

10 hours labour they reckon, from my local garage who are nice people.

So, I have three options:

1. F7R it (expensive, I want to do it but I think the costs is out of my range at the moment)

2. Garage job on the HG and pump and cambelt (lots of cash, but the easy option).

3. Home-grown HG job, coolant flush and investigate overheating problem (never done anything like this before, bit nervous about it, can possibly screw it up and finding the time in this shitty weather to do this out on thre street is very tricky)

4. Another complete F7P engine implant.

With work etc and very low funds, I am thinking of scrapping the lot at this stage.

Wobba
17-01-2008, 15:34
Good places in the south for head compression test and skim? Oh, and maybe some port/polishing?

summeh
17-01-2008, 16:22
I would do number 3 tbh mate. I can give you a hand if you get stuck.

Wobba
18-01-2008, 11:16
I would do number 3 tbh mate. I can give you a hand if you get stuck.


Okay, will give it a go. If it goes tits up, I'll call in the A-Team :D

Doing it myself, I am sure I'll learn a lot, and it's much cheaper...plus I get to take pics as I go of me cocking it up for you all to laugh at in my soon-to-be-started project thread.

I'll do it the weekend after this prolly, due to rain stopping play this weekend :roll:

lewis_willy2
18-01-2008, 12:35
go on son, get it done, it aint too hard.

follow the haynes manual

good luck

Daz.
18-01-2008, 15:06
Plenty of help on here if you get stuck

Wobba
18-01-2008, 15:15
Plenty of help on here if you get stuck

If I didn't have you guys I would have had the car towed away forever by now! :lol:

Daz.
18-01-2008, 15:22
Same here mine would have been left where it was and I'd have gone all sensible :lol:

summeh
18-01-2008, 18:36
To be honest mate hg is quite an easy thing to fix, and you'll learn shit loads just by pulling everything apart (even if you cant get it back together and need help!). Could have been plenty more that could have gone wrong and the car would be a write off (economically).

arj256
19-01-2008, 19:59
Thats annoying that its gone.
Best bet would be to do it yourself. Can tidy up looms and sort out odd pipework and repair the gasket.
Least you will have peace of mind of knowing its all good afterwards.

Wobba
21-01-2008, 00:34
This week is preperation week, and read as much as poss, then I get paid and I can get all the bits and bobs mentioned by Summeh. It will give me chance to see the bypass valve someone put in for the oil cooler too!

Going to take next Monday and Friday off too, just in case I need more time.

One problem is getting the head tested/skimmed. Not sure where I can go for thet...

I guess the oil will need to be replaced...it's gone all mayonaise on me :(

Wobba
23-01-2008, 22:54
Quick question:

The oil has water mixed with it now and God knows what else. Would it be safe to assume I should change it as well? What about the filter? I only fitted a brand new one about 4 weeks ago :(

drsmith1979
23-01-2008, 23:24
for the sake of £4 for a new filter and £15 for some oil, is it really worth ****ing about with?... get it done, at least its peace of mind

Allan
24-01-2008, 01:34
check your block too all very well doing the head but if the block has been damaged not saying it has, but worth checking too

Wobba
24-01-2008, 12:25
Well, problem number one...already feeling like giving up!

Step 1: remove the battery...yeaok, but the bolt holding the fuking thing in is completely seized...ffs, great start.

Wobba
24-01-2008, 12:49
Well, problem number one...already feeling like giving up!

Step 1: remove the battery...yeaok, but the bolt holding the fuking thing in is completely seized...ffs, great start.

phew...got it off but had to jury rig a socket...its a bit out of shape now. Thank god for hammers!

drsmith1979
24-01-2008, 13:01
haha... keep it going mucka... we are all here for moral support! 8)

Wobba
24-01-2008, 13:24
I've come inside ofr a bit to warm up. Got a few more bits off, but I am finding the terrible tempation to take other bits off too and give em all a clean etc! I guess this is the bug called 'tinkering' :D

drsmith1979
24-01-2008, 14:39
before you know it, it will be like a kit car and you will be powder coating to your hearts content! haha

Wobba
24-01-2008, 18:46
before you know it, it will be like a kit car and you will be powder coating to your hearts content! haha

Lol, yea! I've whipped a few bits off now it's dark, so I can spend the evening polishing and cleaning them. I'm tempted to do the rocker cover too...but I need to car operational asap! Hehe, hopefully I can do it over a weekend some other time.

I am trying out what vinegar does to the rust deposits in the expansion tank...I've taken it off of course.

Just writing a little project thread. Will hopefully have it up by tomorrow. Lots of piccies :D

Wobba
25-01-2008, 12:48
Ooooh yea....Renault parts goodness! Lots of things arrived this morning. All I need now is the head tested and skimmed/cleaned up and I am all set for a complete fix of the car!

I am already covered in bruises and cuts, and generally ache all over. Is it worth it? Errr....