View Full Version : Running rich
Is there any way i can adjust the mixture without a programable ECU? Mines running really rich at the minute. Can this do any damage other than too my wallet?
Also which ECU is the best and how much am i looking at? I've heard of a SMT6 before, are these good?
Thanks
Mark
KingStromba
08-06-2005, 18:38
SMT6 has problems associated with it. I dont beleive you can change the rev limit for example, hence why Martin had to go to Nick for a rev limit change.
best ecu would be a fully mappable one such as omex but that would leave you a bill of about £900 fully mapped
luckilly i have a 1.8 ECU which will redline around 7.2K and the smt will do the rest :)
KingStromba
08-06-2005, 18:59
Nick Hill is the man to see about electronics.
Mark_Ritchspeed
08-06-2005, 19:14
If its running very rich, there could be a problem with the lambda sensor. Get this checked first as a rich mixture can damage your cat if your still running one.
Out of curiosity, how do you know its running rich? Have you had it on a gas analyser or has your mpg just gone downhill?
i'll try ringing round the weekend and see what GDI and nick hill can offer. Is nick hill the same as hill power?
No i'm not running and cat and i thought about the lamba, just didn't know how to check it. I never expected it to be running 100% right as the engine is newly built with cams etc. I think its running rich as you can really smell it. Sound strange i know.
What alternatives are there to fully mapable ECUs. I'm looking to spend about £400. Do i need to save more or are there things out there for that sort of money?
Thanks for the help
Mark
MatBrown
09-06-2005, 01:29
Yes Nick Hill is Hillpower.
Lambda would be the first point of call as that is what it does, it tells the ECU to adjust fueling depending on the mixture it detects.
Mat.
KingStromba
09-06-2005, 11:36
i'll try ringing round the weekend and see what GDI and nick hill can offer. Is nick hill the same as hill power?
No i'm not running and cat and i thought about the lamba, just didn't know how to check it. I never expected it to be running 100% right as the engine is newly built with cams etc. I think its running rich as you can really smell it. Sound strange i know.
What alternatives are there to fully mapable ECUs. I'm looking to spend about £400. Do i need to save more or are there things out there for that sort of money?
Thanks for the help
Mark
Wouldnt even put GDI in the same bracket as Nick Hill to be honest. On the electronics side of things you wont find better, anywhere, than Nick.
The job he did rebuilding my engine was very very professional, and the best thing is, it hasnt broken yet. If you have a Mark 1 Clio and dont go to Nick, your either mighty brave or mighty stupid.
Where abouts is he based? and is Nick hill the same as Hill power? Cheers.
Mark
KingStromba
09-06-2005, 13:32
Nick Hill is Hillpower. He is in Derbyshire by the M42. 01530273633.
i'll try ringing round the weekend and see what GDI and nick hill can offer. Is nick hill the same as hill power?
No i'm not running and cat and i thought about the lamba, just didn't know how to check it. I never expected it to be running 100% right as the engine is newly built with cams etc. I think its running rich as you can really smell it. Sound strange i know.
What alternatives are there to fully mapable ECUs. I'm looking to spend about £400. Do i need to save more or are there things out there for that sort of money?
Thanks for the help
Mark
or u could try the genius of wayne schofield.aka chip wizards...who nick couldnt hold a torch to wen mapping..imo
as recommended by myself, martin, soon to be jesus, monkey, also rec'd by dta ecu manufacturers, ferrari owners club, porsche owners club etc etc etc
Wouldnt even put GDI in the same bracket as Nick Hill to be honest. On the electronics side of things you wont find better, anywhere, than Nick.
The job he did rebuilding my engine was very very professional, and the best thing is, it hasnt broken yet. If you have a Mark 1 Clio and dont go to Nick, your either mighty brave or mighty stupid.
thanks 2-live. Do you have chip wizards number?
Has anyone had a chip/ re-map from GDI. Was really impressed by the work they've done for me before, but i understand they can't be good at everything so maybe somewhere else might be best for a chip.
Thanks
KingStromba
09-06-2005, 15:12
Just out of interest 2live, what makes you think chipwizard are any better at mapping than Nick Hill?
Just like to know why you think that?
KingStromba
09-06-2005, 15:26
GDI remap using a piggy back chip i think, and are unable to set a higher rev limiter.
in fairness Rob you've not had work done at GDI, as I have not had work done at Hill Power so to say one is better than the other would be difficult. Personally I dont like the SMT6 as it's a piggyback chip, no disrespect to Andy or Ben as ive spoken to them already about this and prefer the idea of a clone ECU. Also to set the record straight GDI use the SMT6 and a clone chip to up the revs, so that's not an issue. I've not heard a great deal of good things about the hill power maps in honesty, but i've only heard good things about the Chip Wizards remaps. I've done a search on Wayne Schofield before in yahoo and google and all the Porsche and serious car nutts all say he's the Neo of engine management tuning. GDI/AWT are also shit hot, as the yellow car of Martins ran a 14.1 once mapped, but on standard 6'500rpm limit. Think that speaks for itself as well really. Choice is yours though mate, we can only help you, it's your choice at the end of the day. I'm using Chip Wizards mainly as he's highly recommended but also the fact that Cambridge isn't exactly down the road for me, so would be a 2 day event or one hell of a long day to get it mapped.
KingStromba
09-06-2005, 16:49
LOL, Porsche owners club recommend him, doesnt mean **** all. Jon youve heard bad things about Nick Hills work. What from a bloke's brother down the pub?
Same sort of people that claim that his chips cause pinking, when they are too thick to realise that pinking is caused by the excessive heat build up on a rolling road, not the chip.
****ing makes me laugh all the shit on here. About as scientific as claiming dog shit stinks of roses cos a mate told you.
Cant argue with Nicks CV. He knows Mark2 clios backwards, and hes worked for TWR as an electronic engineer when they were involved in F1. Now i dont this Tom Walkinshaw employ cowboys do they?
thing is they recommend him and put up graphs to prove his work, see for yourself, it's not difficult to find. Jon's car itself is reason enough for me to go for that one, i went in it immediately before and after remap practically and the car was fast as hell when it went in and was transformed into a complete monster on the way out.
i've heard bad things about Hill Power just as you have about GDI and AWT, the science is the same both ways. I'm not saying that a few people's saying he's crap or whatever would sway me though, i'd prefer to see for myself. The reason I'm not going to Hill Power is simply because a) it's too far and b) other people have better publicised results.
KingStromba
09-06-2005, 17:05
Ok jesus. Challenge.
You go to Chipwizard, ill go to nick hill. We both do before and after. And maybe a wager on it too.
hows that going to work.....your cars are differant from each other.
TBH im going to chipwizards when i get mine done
a) he's local 15mins away
b) he did 2lives and was there with him on the day
c) his reputation has nothing to do with me going anywhere...but his is a good one from what ive heard from other engine tunners.
KingStromba
09-06-2005, 17:22
And you talk as if Chipwizard added 20 bhp to 2lives car. IT AING GOING TO HAPPEN FROM A REMAP.
All a remap does is fine tune the engine and take out flat spots, placed by the manufacturers to improve fuel economy etc. There are many reasons why Jons car could have been fastest after the remap (maybe it was run in more, psychological reasons, weather conditions), but saying you will get MASSIVE gains from a remap, sorry to disappoint when you go, but you wont.
never said that anything about 2lives car being quicker or not....
but i know the differance mate....the standard map was very close in actual fact. He just took alittle out at top end and added some more to the mid range.
It was the limiter which impressed me the most Rob about his work. And the fact that 0159 has sustained being reved to over 8500 rpm for a few mins whislt he found the rev limiter code string.
KingStromba
09-06-2005, 17:30
All im syaing is FORGET massive improvements. If Jons car really improved that much i suggest it was not running correctly to start with.
A map will fine tune a car. THAT IS ALL IT DOES. No big performance gains to be had.
well there was in this case mate...as his times show.
before remap best 14.6 after remap 14.0 (to be improved im sure)
no worries rob....any gain even 1bhp will be greatly appriciated on my car i can tell u
KingStromba
09-06-2005, 17:46
So there is no chance it could have been his driving skill that got the 14.0?
No chance he could have launched the car better on that run?
Come on, be realistic.
MatBrown
10-06-2005, 01:09
Wish i had some popcorn!
Better than the flicks. :D
Mat.
Ok jesus. Challenge.
You go to Chipwizard, ill go to nick hill. We both do before and after. And maybe a wager on it too.
that wont work, how about I go to hill power and he maps my car... although you or Nick pay, then I go to Chip Wizards afterwards? I never said it would make 20bhp, but it has made a big difference. The fact that the car is now mapped properly and also mapped to 700rpm more has made a pretty big difference. If you see the way Jon launches you'll know that he gets the launch pretty much perfect everytime. Reaction times dont affect the 1/4 mile too, so that's half a second inprovement on acceleration... that's pretty massive imo. There's no way on earth that his car will have done a 14.0 before the remap either, you see the way Jon launches and changes gear it's impossible
KingStromba
10-06-2005, 11:24
Ok, lets knock on the door and ask for Ronny Real.
Some facts:
Coincidences DO occur. Just because he gets a 14.0 after a remap doesnt mean the remap provided the reduction of all that time. Granted, a remap will undoubtedly improve driveability and iron out flat spots, and thus improve the engines performance. However, im sure Jon also had a shit before the 14.0, but no one is suggesting that the shit was responsible via extra weight reduction.
Jon is human, and as such open to the placebo effect. Get a doctor to tell someone they are stronger, and they will be. Spend £350 on a remap from someone the Porsche owners club say walks on water, and you get the same effect.
The car was probably improved after the remap, of that i have no doubt. But lets not subscribe to Max Power just yet, and keep the improvements in perspective. Realistically, the remap will fine tune the ECU to optimally work with Jons modifications, and also remove code that is counter productive to performance. We are not talking big gains, but a nice worthwhile improvement. Certainly not turning the car from a kitten into a tiger, but more like turning a tiger into a slightly faster and stronger tiger, but not that your notice just by looking.
People on here need to know the truth about remaps before they part with their hard earned cash. It is unfair to get them to expect that Chipwizard will provide them with something he wont. A magicall elixir. A solution to all those tuning woes. Im sure Chipwizard does exactly what he says on the tin, but then so does Nick Hill, and maybe a handful of other electronic engineers. Remaps are complex things that require skill, but you cannot extract power from an engine that isnt there. No even the mighty Chipwizard cannot defy the laws described by Bor, Planck, Newton, Clausius and Einstein.
I have no experience of Chipwizard and admit that i know little about the company, but have only heard good things. Its not that i am persuading people not to go there, or in any way stating that he doesnt do a good job. I am sure he does. But for you to turn round and say that 'youve only heard bad things about Nick Hill's remaps' is in my opinion the statement of pub talk. I have seen his software, his graphs, his equipment, and his results. Im sure some others can do 'as good a job'. However, i can assure you and everyone else, his set up is very professional, and his results are good and very real.
Problems tend to arrise, when ill advised people buy a chip off him. Run it in a car that isnt in the best of health anyway. Stick crap fuel in it, then go to a rolling road session in 30 degree heat, and wonder why the car is pinking. They take the chip out the next day and drive it on the cool road and the pinking goes, and they conclude, erroneously, that the chip cuased the pinking. They then tell everyone on a car forum and it becomes engrained in stone. Absolute lunacy. The same people also wonder why the car produces less power on a rolling road with the chip in, than without. I mean come on, weve all seen the bullshit results off rolling roads, and the variation that is acheivable between the same car even on the same day (Flaming Monkies last RR). Yet people stupidly beleive what these people report. Pub talk is dangerous. Dont fall into its evil.
Here endeth the lesson :D
LOL, Porsche owners club recommend him, doesnt mean f*ck all. Jon youve heard bad things about Nick Hills work. What from a bloke's brother down the pub?
Same sort of people that claim that his chips cause pinking, when they are too thick to realise that pinking is caused by the excessive heat build up on a rolling road, not the chip.
****ing makes me laugh all the shit on here. About as scientific as claiming dog shit stinks of roses cos a mate told you.
Cant argue with Nicks CV. He knows Mark2 clios backwards, and hes worked for TWR as an electronic engineer when they were involved in F1. Now i dont this Tom Walkinshaw employ cowboys do they?
Its true, when you map right to the edge, an engine will pink under the unreal loads and temps that they experience on a rolling road, Its impossible to similate real life situations on a chassis dyno.
Nick is an incredibly good tuner, but one bit of bad press by that RSC lot didnt help him much. Nothing he cant get over though.
Rob, I never once mentioned that the remap will give big bhp gains, or simply by using this it will transform the car into something it's not. we were talking about 2 lives car where it had x mods and combing chip with x mods has made a big difference. now you can argue all day that this is down to conditions, state of mind blah blah blah, but really that proves nothing, as it ran around fourteen and a half seconds before it was remap'd and now it runs fourteen dead. This is down to nothing other than the remap, how can in not be, forget science, we're talking common sense hear and the law of averages. You need to realise that these runs were not all done on the same day, Jon's usually props up the 1/4 mile scene... although he's not run it much since the remap... so the difference is likely to be even bigger, as I think it will crack 13's.
SUPER CHIPS ....end of :wink:
KingStromba
10-06-2005, 14:38
Rob, I never once mentioned that the remap will give big bhp gains, or simply by using this it will transform the car into something it's not. we were talking about 2 lives car where it had x mods and combing chip with x mods has made a big difference. now you can argue all day that this is down to conditions, state of mind blah blah blah, but really that proves nothing, as it ran around fourteen and a half seconds before it was remap'd and now it runs fourteen dead. This is down to nothing other than the remap, how can in not be, forget science, we're talking common sense hear and the law of averages. You need to realise that these runs were not all done on the same day, Jon's usually props up the 1/4 mile scene... although he's not run it much since the remap... so the difference is likely to be even bigger, as I think it will crack 13's.
Everyone says the difference before and after remap was 'amazing', 'massive difference'.
The fact is you wouldnt even notice the speed difference between running 14.5 and 14.0 on a 1/4 mile sitting in the passenger or drivers seat of the car. Those kind of miniscule differences arent noticable in the drivers seat. Its not until you see a timing slip that you would realise the car was quicker.
Im just trying to be realistic. If the car was 'noticably' alot faster on the road, it would show more of an improvement than 0.5 of a second quicker down the strip.
Im sure the map could produce the 0.5 secs improvement in time on the strip, of that i have no doubt. However, that 0.5 secs would be hardly noticable on the roads from sitting and driving the car. Unlike everyones description with words like 'massive', 'huge' and 'different car'.
FlamingMonkey
10-06-2005, 15:07
It is different on the road, basically its faster than everyone elses, when doin scientific test on the M/Way Jon can give us a head start and he will close and then widen the gap to his advantage
eh, sorry mate but no, you do notice the difference!!! for starters the revs are increased and it pulls in gear for longer and the torque difference was huge... which is where the 0.5 seconds must be coming from and torque is deffo something you can notice and feel.
KingStromba
10-06-2005, 15:20
OK. So your sat in a Williams. It runs down the strip.
Then you go back again and it goes down again.
Now your told one of the runs was 14.0, and one 14.4.
Youre telling me your be able to tell by just feeling the acceleration which run was 14.4 and which 14.0?
BULLSHIT.
You wouldnt be able to tell until you saw the timing slip. Yet your telling me 2lives car had a 'huge' difference after the remap. Well if you cant really feel the difference between 14.0 and 14.4, so why can you magically feel it on the road in 2lives car?
Psychological reasons perhaps?
uh...? pre cams best 14.4, average of 14.6/7 Jon told me
after cams, 14.0 and 14.1/2 average...
I've been in the car before cams, it was fast, i've been in after it was mapped at it was noticeably faster. that's the long and short of it, there's no debate, no arguement, science is meaningless, there's nothing to prove. These are facts, Jon says it, I say it, Northy says it. That's good enough for me to go to Chip Wizards and recommend them on the basis of, "that's where my car will be going"
KingStromba
10-06-2005, 15:30
My car magically got faster after i had my hair cut.
I could be unscientific and claim it was the weight loss from the haircut. But i realise it was because my car was running in, and it WILL get faster.
No magical remap. Just the engine getting looser. Im sure my car will magically get fatser after my remap too. But as it will be at about 6,000 miles after a rebuild, i suggest it would be more to do with the running in of said engine, than the remap.
My car magically got faster after i had my hair cut.
I could be unscientific and claim it was the weight loss from the haircut. But i realise it was because my car was running in, and it WILL get faster.
No magical remap. Just the engine getting looser. Im sure my car will magically get fatser after my remap too. But as it will be at about 6,000 miles after a rebuild, i suggest it would be more to do with the running in of said engine, than the remap.
based on this I must be wrong then and Jons car was infact slower after remap... ignore everything I said, I must have made it all up... once again science triumphs :roll:
KingStromba
10-06-2005, 16:04
I never denied it would be quicker. But you talk as if its gone from a 1.2 to a rocket ship.
A remap makes a difference. Yes. But i cant seeing it transforming a car. I would call it a noticable improvement in derivability.
I never denied it would be quicker. But you talk as if its gone from a 1.2 to a rocket ship.
A remap makes a difference. Yes. But i cant seeing it transforming a car. I would call it a noticable improvement in derivability.
Mis-reading/mis quoting is not my fault tho, I said it made a big difference, 0.4+ seconds down the 1/4 mile is a big difference, why this such a big deal? half a second may not be much to you, but 1/4 mile any car and then try and take half a second off tuning the orignal engine... anyway, argue with the owner instead and tell him he's wrong, i'm getting bored now.
KingStromba
10-06-2005, 16:13
8)
lol@ all this
to clear a few things up.
after id put the cams and meg engine in mine, i personally didnt feel as tho it was a lot faster, on my first outing in it, which obviously as it was still tite, the peaks run the day after really let me know just how much quicker it was than when std. cars i usually had probs staying with were suddenly holding me up, ok so the 1 car was a bit poorly, but the others who i normally compare against, were instead of being just a bit behind, were quite a way behind, noticably
my previous best with the std map/ecu was 14.4@95mph...not too shabby.but seein as tho it ran a pers best of 14.6 in std trim i wasnt overly impressed, altho like i said, in gear was completely diff
after a few runs with just the cams in.averaging 14.5s@ 94mph i decided it was about time i had it mapped to suit the mods, i did a lot of searching about and finding out about who did what etc. i was going to go for a dta standalone engine management system, so that i could run woteva i wanted from it in the future, and after talkin to the manufacturers, they advised me to talk to wayne, their problem solver/demi-god, which i did.
5 mins later i was booked in at a rollers i knew, with an operator i know, and have previous runs stored there from other meets runs etc.
the guy knows his shit mate.....before the map, there was no way i couldve hit the 14.0 mark.......the map is set up for my car, unlike a lot of off the shelf chips sold by other companies, and compliments the mods perfectly
a quick re-run...
std willy eng.......fastest 1/4 time 14.6 .....average 14.8
meg eng with cams.........fastest 1/4 time 14.4, average 14.5
meg eng, cams and re-map.......fastest 1/4 time 14.0, average 14.1
and u say the re-map wont make much of a diff??
lol
depends where u go for it i suppose, but personally if the re-map wouldnt have made such a diff i wouldnt be recommending him, none of the other companies mentioned have seen/logged results like this i dont think, or the owners of cars that have work done by them
btw all this scientific bollox is bullshit...... u cant create exact replicas of road instances in a lab.....full stop.....
KingStromba
10-06-2005, 17:46
Everything you do is science. Science is just a set of rules for understanding things. Saying science is bollox is like saying time is wank.
Meaningless.
KingStromba
10-06-2005, 17:48
So chipwizard man is the only person in the world who can map a car? According to you he is. 2live has said it so it must be true. :roll:
stromba man relax
no one has ever said there is only one kind of ecu remapping.
its like selling food tesco netto sainsburys asda they sell the same thing.....same with remaps.
you take yours to hill power and post your results ..before and after
so everyone else is entitled to there opinion and preferance - av that !
no Rob, what's he's saying is go to this guy, here's the results to prove it, where's Hill Power's results to prove their quick cars? where's BB tuning's 190bhp Williams (which 2 live SMOKED). Sorry mate, but I really dont see how you can slate all these other companies even when the results are there in blue and white for all to see. Chip Wizards may or may not be the best, that's not the point, the point is he has proven good results, in fact no, they are outstanding results.
So chipwizard man is the only person in the world who can fry chips in the car? According to you he is. nick hill has said it so it must be true. :roll:
:shock:
KingStromba
10-06-2005, 18:31
no Rob, what's he's saying is go to this guy, here's the results to prove it, where's Hill Power's results to prove their quick cars? where's BB tuning's 190bhp Williams (which 2 live SMOKED). Sorry mate, but I really dont see how you can slate all these other companies even when the results are there in blue and white for all to see. Chip Wizards may or may not be the best, that's not the point, the point is he has proven good results, in fact no, they are outstanding results.
You miss my whole point. I think Chipwizard are good. Ive only heard good things. But it is you that stated that they were BETTER than anyone else.
I suggest to you that there are other companies equally adept at doing the same job.
I also suggest that the gains from a remap would be significant, but not huge.
as jesus has already pointed out.the map on mine before wayne started messing, wasnt that far out, according to him.
so bearing in mind this is a basic tune up (as ud call it with carbs) from what he CAN do is fukkin impressive.
like jesus has also said elsewhere, trying to get 1/2 sec off an already fast time for the car/mods etc is fukkin hard.......waynes map did it almost instantly.
i havent seen any of the other companies that can claim that, not all their own doing i mite add, as some drivers of said tuned cars dont get before and after comparisons, they just feel if its quicker or not, or compare it to find out against others theyv raced before
personally i like to see results before i buy something...proof it works in effect.....which i can honestly say, it has for me
but then i try to analyse the options and the pros and cons of each option.so far i think iv made the right decisions.
nothing any of the other companies have done has proved to me otherwise.......so far
KingStromba
10-06-2005, 18:57
Im sure hes great. But there are other people who can change a few codes too.
god rob found this for you mate....http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00073K50U.16._AA260_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg Nick has just rung me to say u left it in his workshop.
Come on guys....you are all entitled to your oppionions...nick hill, wayne and gdi, hell even ebay all do chips...so what.
You go to the one u prefer...simple !
Look at martin, he has had a gdi map, chip wizzards and hill power on his bananna....ask him who was the best if u want...im sure he will tell u if u must know.
im sure there are mate....and im not disputing that fact
all im saying is.of the respected reno tuners i contacted about the mods etc, the one person to stand out with the map was wayne, on sheer word of mouth background checks and other recomendations....
not any of the other companies
not the most expensive option
not the cheapest option
was my choice and im very happy with it.....so happy that i want to share it with you all to stop people maybe making a mistake and going elsewhere for a maybe inferior job
nowt wrong wi that is there??
have u noted any differences in ur hill power chipped car??
are u happy to recomend ppl to ppl knowing they do an inferior job?? cos i arent so i dont :wink:
KingStromba
10-06-2005, 19:15
My car isnt running a chip, its completely standard.
I never said anyone was better than anyone else, I mean I could do I suppose, as what results have Hill Power cars got down the 1/4 mile for all of their supposedly 'fast' cars?
show me some of their results and i'd be happy to say "wow, that's much more impressive i'll be taking my car their instead"... but you've not, instead you ask for the proof which has duly been given and you still argue the toss... i dont get it, put up some results to better it, show me a car that's made a big difference on before and after maps. maybe your basing your view on what another said company can only do and subsequently can't accept that someone else can provide bigger gains? either way, the results are there, it's a BIG difference, there's no denying that, find a better chip/mapper that's local and i'll go to them. Same with AWT and GDI, their results on their mapping speaks volumes.
Mark_Ritchspeed
10-06-2005, 19:17
All I know is 2Lives flames are the best I have seen on any Clio. :twisted:
KingStromba
10-06-2005, 19:27
Your 'proof' is that 2lives car 'felt' much faster.
WOW. Great proof. Best get £400 out for a chipwizard remap. :roll:
are you on drugs? no seriously, as it has been posted before, it's faster, there's results, they have been posted, what's so hard to accept... because for some reason you dont agree is this no longer proof? :shock: dont know whats got into you mate, you seem to be looking for a fight or one of your "supposed" friends to bite and have a go... :?
Well well...we are having fun here are'nt we! lol I think I'm right in saying I'm the only person to have run the same car (my old willy) with the same mods on all 3 maps..GDI, Chipwizard and Hillpower on my williams. The results are as follows..
with GDI Smt6
Run Time Catagory Dialin Reaction 60 Foot 1/8 ET 1/8 MPH 1/4 ET 1/4 MPH
10:53:40 RWYB CAR 0.00 0.987 2.470 9.857 73.410 15.185 91.990
11:05:55 C SS-CA 0.00 0.764 2.516 9.890 74.010 15.161 93.030
11:42:14 C SS-CA 0.00 0.862 2.606 9.997 74.430 14.056 0.000
12:54:07 C SS-CA 0.00 0.928 2.346 9.678 74.510 14.911 93.880
14:16:46 C SS-CA 0.00 1.193 2.745 13.340 47.000 21.679 55.000
15:00:14 C SS-CA 0.00 0.830 2.746 10.300 73.510 15.607 91.700
15:51:29 RWYB CAR 0.00 1.129 2.400 9.635 74.630 14.887 93.110
the conditions on this day were'nt great but I did mange to get a couple of decent runs in with the 14.9 & 14.88 the terminal speeds were ok and my starts could have been a bit better... 14 sec flat run was a timing error btw!
with chipwizard re-map
Run Time Catagory Dialin Reaction 60 Foot 1/8 ET 1/8 MPH 1/4 ET 1/4 MPH
11:44:47 C SS-CA 0.00 1.129 2.586 9.873 75.120 15.112 92.620
12:43:40 C SS-CA 0.00 1.672 2.359 9.492 75.380 14.706 93.050
14:07:20 C SS-CA 0.00 1.231 2.498 9.816 74.280 15.105 91.730
14:54:35 C SS-CA 0.00 1.043 2.451 9.733 74.330 15.025 91.640
15:49:28 RWYB CAR 0.00 1.114 2.468 9.814 74.160 15.100 92.030
16:04:47 RWYB CAR 0.00 1.223 2.390 9.716 72.800 15.068 90.620
16:23:18 RWYB CAR 0.00 0.912 2.366 9.626 73.730 14.907 91.820
16:33:42 RWYB CAR 0.00 1.553 2.398 9.698 73.780 14.999 91.610
16:42:00 RWYB CAR 0.00 1.817 2.412 9.804 73.750 15.086 92.100
16:48:17 RWYB CAR 0.00 1.157 2.343 9.538 74.970 14.790 93.000
16:57:51 RWYB CAR 0.00 1.504 2.381 9.609 74.060 14.902 91.620
got a few good runs in, but there was a bit of a headwind which knocked most people down 0.1/0.15 secs off there best times...I'd say the chipwizard re-map was a slight improvement over the smt6...
hillpower re-map
Did'nt 1/4 mile the car after this but I did do a couple of comparison vids before and after....
the results from 70-130 mph are
Chipwizard - 22.45 secs
Hillpower - 25.82 secs
None of these tests were 'scientific' but imo they give a good idea of the difference in performance between the different maps...
oh ohhhh not going stromba wombas way
KingStromba
10-06-2005, 20:16
But this is all quater miles stuff. Bouncing off the limiter shit. Anyone actually tested different maps around a track? You know one of those things with corners?
Wild cams, loads of top end on a remap = fast quater mile, bouncing off the limiter.
BUT ABSOLUTE SHIT ROUND A TRACK.
Did i mention i had headlight protectors. Two pairs. :D
But this is all quater miles stuff. Bouncing off the limiter shit. Anyone actually tested different maps around a track? You know one of those things with corners?
Wild cams, loads of top end on a remap = fast quater mile, bouncing off the limiter.
BUT ABSOLUTE SHIT ROUND A TRACK.
Did i mention i had headlight protectors. Two pairs. :D
LOL...moving the goalposts, because someone scored!
KingStromba
10-06-2005, 20:24
Not atall mate, if you ask Nick about what his goals are in designing his maps, youll probably realise they would not suit the ultimate goal you are looking to achieve (which is 13's in the quater mile). His goal is to give a more useable and driveable road car, or track car if corners are included.
If you had asked him to jam all the power at the top and fit a 4-1 manifold, im sure your times would have been quicker.
Well thats as maybe but my car is ALL about the mid range at the moment...so as well as being quick up the 1/4 I think it would be quick round a track too. I did the same times up the 1/4 revving to 6.5k in all gears as I did taking it to 7k that tells you where the power is..
lol.i dare say the gap on the strip would only grow and grow and grow on a track mate
think about it.....it accelerates quicker, hence the quicker 1/4 time, so away from the line its ahead, still pulling thru the mid range.hit the brakes for the first corner.the extra bit of midrange pullin u out the corner a lot faster up a little straight, again the mid range pulling like a train more corners.more gaps
KingStromba
11-06-2005, 00:12
Dunno about you, but after the initial launch from high midrange, my car wouldnt see midrange down a quarter mile. So its all top end.
Pulling out of corners is where youd need 3.5 to 5k.
and i still have the 2500 rpm kick of the original cams.but its a little higher up the rev range where things really start being fun
instead of the secondary slight kick at 4500 rpm on the originals.u get a huge rush that sees the rev counter go from 4500 to redline a lot fukkin quicker than std.....and when racing u wanna be keepin it in the power band.not pussyin about at 2500 revs through corners..ok the tight ones yeah maybe...but thats y u have a gearbox..drop it a cog n keep the power on lol
give it up stromba its over 2 lives car is fast as everybody says +jesus
+martin they are the people to beat for a very good reason ... 8)
KingStromba
11-06-2005, 10:10
Mate, give up isnt in my vocabulary im afraid. You seem to think im bothered about quater miling. Doesnt really interest me to be honest.
In my eyes the fastest cars are the ones that go round corners quickest. And in my opinion, that makes Mark the one in front, and the benchmark on this site for performance.
ok past caring now end of
KingStromba
11-06-2005, 13:19
Glad we understand each other then. :D
rite.found this.
this is filmed from inside a 14.5 sec 1/4 mile saxo, with dog box, coilovers, etc and a shit hot driver in craggy........some of u will know the lad , and know he can drive.
he had been chasing the teg type r in front of him (the white thing) for a fair few laps......watch the williams come past him, then watch the williams go past the teg as well.....hehe
by the way......the cams only made the car quicker round the track imo, and the higher limiter heped me hold onto lower gears a bit longer to get extra speed on the exits of corners..not less rob
http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=jonpassing
hehe.its only showin a bit on there lol.....anyone wanna host??
Thanks for the help. Think i'll just give them both a ring and maybe pop to see them. Think whichever one of the two i go for won't be a bad choice.
I'm not expecting to get loads more power or see massive results, just wanna get it running 'right' and i do think this will give me back some of the power i'm probably loosing.
Few more things, what can the limiter be safely raised to? and i mean safely! i don't wanna push it. Also does a chipped ECU require another lambe sensor? I remember something about the SMT6 needed another lamba for some reason or am i just talking rubbish?
Thanks
Mark
Thanks for the help. Think i'll just give them both a ring and maybe pop to see them. Think whichever one of the two i go for won't be a bad choice.
I'm not expecting to get loads more power or see massive results, just wanna get it running 'right' and i do think this will give me back some of the power i'm probably loosing.
Few more things, what can the limiter be safely raised to? and i mean safely! i don't wanna push it. Also does a chipped ECU require another lambe sensor? I remember something about the SMT6 needed another lamba for some reason or am i just talking rubbish?
Thanks
Mark
I'd say 7k is abouyt as far as you'd want to push it personally I'd prefere a 6.75k limit on mine but it makes more and more power the more you rev it due to the aftermarket cams and head work the engine has. However maybe cars have a 7.2k limit with no problems. Any more than 7.5 and youir asking to have problems IMO.
I don't think the SMT needs any aditional lambeda though it takes readings from the stock one.
rite.found this.
this is filmed from inside a 14.5 sec 1/4 mile saxo, with dog box, coilovers, etc and a shit hot driver in craggy........some of u will know the lad , and know he can drive.
he had been chasing the teg type r in front of him (the white thing) for a fair few laps......watch the williams come past him, then watch the williams go past the teg as well.....hehe
by the way......the cams only made the car quicker round the track imo, and the higher limiter heped me hold onto lower gears a bit longer to get extra speed on the exits of corners..not less rob
http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=jonpassing
can confirm that, i was in the saxo when he did it!!
lol.but no doubt the doubters will say......but he wasnt booting it.he cant drive..etc etc. the amount of races iv had with craggy when mine was in std form ....this sax was rite at the side of me, from set off to limiter in 5th.........but then he started puttin more mods on n pulling away.
this vid to me proves how much quicker than b4 my car now is..obviously, ppl who havent been there when me n craggy have raced b4 wont truly understand, but like i said..this car used to match me mph for mph, corner for corner
KingStromba
11-06-2005, 17:05
Well Mark is the new benchmark now, so best get those lap times down in Anglesey :D
Mark_Ritchspeed
11-06-2005, 17:09
We'll see. When 2Live gets some decent brakes on his I reckon he'll shave around 3-4 secs a lap off around Oulton Park when compared to standard set-up.
Thats the difference it made on mine.
KingStromba
11-06-2005, 17:10
Ill be on the pit wall drinking tea, and chatting to the laaadies
lol.
iv only done 1 real track day and an open day at brunters..which was fun as we had the full cicuit to play on
with marks experience and the rallying etc i would hope he was a better driver than me lol.id probs end up in the first tree at the 1st real techy bit lol....too much speed will one day be my downfall.....but i can live with that...
until i get the brakes lol
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