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J o n
08-06-2005, 13:19
not had the chance of a doo with a 172/182 yet since getting cams... had a couple of run ins, but one I was 3 up him on his own and the other time it was a bit of 2nd n 3rd gear stuff only... :cry:

KingStromba
08-06-2005, 13:27
Before my engine rebuild i could easily keep pace with my mates 172 cup. Dead even upto 100+. And i didnt rate 0200 as a particularly fast Williams. Ive also kept with a 182 (was brand new mind on an 04 plate at time so may not have been run in) and i kept with it no probs. Thats a 140,000 mile engine.

Jills 172 is a fast one. Everyone says so. Since my rebuild, i ve done 2500 miles and my car is just starting to be quicker than hers on 30,000 miles.

So with cams and a megane bottom end, your going to **** a standard 182 over big time.

A 182 owner could say 'well i get cams and the status quo is rebalanced', but their engines are already in a higher state of tune, so the F4R wont respond as well to the same mods as the F7R (i would not have thought). They would have to go for wild cams, which will **** their idle (read GDI) and lose bottom end power.

Jamie.
08-06-2005, 13:31
everytime ive had a run-in with a 182 they dont seem arsed. if cams seem to make as "bigger" difference on the willys and valvers as people have reported i would expect u to be quicker in a striaght line and well as for twisties.....

Andyvalver
08-06-2005, 13:32
My valver is a 140000 mile engine and is much faster than my mates 80k engine. It pulls like the day it came out of the factory :)

J o n
08-06-2005, 13:34
well to be fair the work GDI and AWT do is awesome, they dont piss about when it comes to tuning, the figures can be argued i suppose, but imo there used as a rough guide. now, my personal feeling on the whole F4 engine is that as standard they seem to be better, in that they have less miles, but put up like for like Williams and 1*2 the Willy will be at least as quick... which has been proven by the lower mile ones and 1/4 mile times. now all these ones with cams etc do make impressive figures, but from personal experience I dont think they make the beans, i've seen a 172 with cams, headwork, breathing mods and all setup on a dastek chip on an RR make 157bhp @ the wheels and it was not as quick as it should have been period... seen a few cases of this where the figures look good etc, but on the road I'd be confident that with same mods, ie mine timing in and remap I'd not struggle to pull away from one producing over 200bhp. now you obviously get the freaks out there that will be a different story, but i'm beginning to believe this myth of the megane engine being quicker... that or the fact it's on 25k... lol

Rudders16v
08-06-2005, 17:11
I had a race with my mate in his 172 Cup at the weekend, he's had it cammed and few other little bits, and is running just over 200bhp, he said he was surprised at how close i kept to him and so was i! Once we got to about 80 though, he started pulling away more

Jan
08-06-2005, 17:38
It's all about the top end IMO.... my mate in his rx7 doesn't pull away too much while i'm flat out in 3rd, but once i change up into 4th, he's gone

StevieP
08-06-2005, 18:42
I've had a play with a mates apparently standard Williams 2 in a straight line, about 70-130mph and in my de-catted/ITG Panel filter'ed 172 it was about even. He'd pull if I started off in front, I'd pull on him ever-so-slightly if he was in front. If you have cams I would expect you to edge in front easily.

Jan
08-06-2005, 19:39
I've had a play with a mates apparently standard Williams 2 in a straight line, about 70-130mph and in my de-catted/ITG Panel filter'ed 172 it was about even. He'd pull if I started off in front, I'd pull on him ever-so-slightly if he was in front. If you have cams I would expect you to edge in front easily. :D

Smokey McPot
08-06-2005, 20:55
not had the chance of a doo with a 172/182 yet since getting cams... had a couple of run ins, but one I was 3 up him on his own and the other time it was a bit of 2nd n 3rd gear stuff only... :cry:

If you're around Bedford/MK jesus ill oblige, im no racer....but ill do me best.

Martin
08-06-2005, 21:15
All depends on whether it's a quick 172 or not really...although IMO the cup is a closer match for a tweaked williams! :lol:

KingStromba
08-06-2005, 21:16
The cranks on some 172's weight 6lbs more than others. :shock:

Smokey McPot
08-06-2005, 22:26
Its a Cup.....seems to be fairly quick compared to other Cups i've played with.

lagerlout1
09-06-2005, 00:16
The F4R is a superior engine. And responds just as well to cams etc as the F7 ( cams and remap can get you 200 HP on a 182).

A cammed F4R in mk1 shell v's a cammed F7 - Would be no contest imho.

Martin
09-06-2005, 00:22
I'll bet my left bollock no-one can get a genuine 200 bhp from cams and re-map on a 182(F4R)! I do think you are right about it being a better base for tuning though...it does have a 20 bhp headstart though..lol

lagerlout1
09-06-2005, 00:47
I'll bet my left bollock no-one can get a genuine 200 bhp from cams and re-map on a 182(F4R)! I do think you are right about it being a better base for tuning though...it does have a 20 bhp headstart though..lol

Yozza has already done it. Although it may also have had breathing mods.

KingStromba
09-06-2005, 01:16
I'll bet my left bollock no-one can get a genuine 200 bhp from cams and re-map on a 182(F4R)! I do think you are right about it being a better base for tuning though...it does have a 20 bhp headstart though..lol

Yozza has already done it. Although it may also have had breathing mods.

200bhp is maybe possible with very wild cams, but GDI havnt cracked how to get the car to idle without stalling, so they phone around for advice. PSML.


Any ****er can put extremely wild cams in a car and claim 200BHP, but the car becomes undriveable as a result. Stalling at every junction? :D

VIPERONE
09-06-2005, 02:18
The F4R is a superior engine. And responds just as well to cams etc as the F7 ( cams and remap can get you 200 HP on a 182).

A cammed F4R in mk1 shell v's a cammed F7 - Would be no contest imho.

its been done

Winston
09-06-2005, 02:24
172/182 drivers near me must be pussies :roll: :wink:

BenR
09-06-2005, 02:59
F4R 200bhp, just cams.....nope.

lagerlout1
09-06-2005, 03:52
Alright so maybe there's a bit more than cams, remap and breathing mods.... :oops: lol

In true Williamsclio fashion the following car can be classed as 'near standard'. :wink:

"yozzasport cams, inlet and exhaust manifold match, SMT6,

already had on the car, K+N ik kit, de-cat and stainless system"

And it's 200 + apparently....

lagerlout1
09-06-2005, 03:53
I'll bet my left bollock no-one can get a genuine 200 bhp from cams and re-map on a 182(F4R)! I do think you are right about it being a better base for tuning though...it does have a 20 bhp headstart though..lol

Yozza has already done it. Although it may also have had breathing mods.

200bhp is maybe possible with very wild cams, but GDI havnt cracked how to get the car to idle without stalling, so they phone around for advice. PSML.


Any ****er can put extremely wild cams in a car and claim 200BHP, but the car becomes undriveable as a result. Stalling at every junction? :D

You can't.

lagerlout1
09-06-2005, 03:54
The F4R is a superior engine. And responds just as well to cams etc as the F7 ( cams and remap can get you 200 HP on a 182).

A cammed F4R in mk1 shell v's a cammed F7 - Would be no contest imho.

its been done

What the conversion or the comparison? I know that french guy has put an F4R in his mk1 (and the dash!!).......

BenR
09-06-2005, 04:07
Alright so maybe there's a bit more than cams, remap and breathing mods.... :oops: lol

In true Williamsclio fashion the following car can be classed as 'near standard'. :wink:

"yozzasport cams, inlet and exhaust manifold match, SMT6,

already had on the car, K+N ik kit, de-cat and stainless system"

And it's 200 + apparently....

Majority comes from the manifold work.

Put any can form anybody on a std lump and it doesnt do much unless you get very lucky with the manifold pairing from the factory.

2 live
09-06-2005, 09:32
172s...never really had any probs with em tbh.rhys' mk1 and paddys are about the quickest ones iv come across....non cup

cups......if they as quick as chris n nics , and rsport ecu'd etc, then a std willy will get beat, unless its an even freakier one than mine lol

182s..never really had a do with one....passed one at oulton a few times tho hehe


all above std willy, but when u start modding the willy it seemsto respond realy really well....dependant on mods and fitter.....and will pull away from all above with a few simple bolt on mods.....start gettin engine internal/head/cam work...then the real gap between the 2 starts to show, only a few 172/cup/182s have run the same kinda times down the strip as the willy/hybrid motors do, throw in a few corners.and i think the gap will increase

BenR
09-06-2005, 09:47
yea, the first 40-50bhp on a willy is much much easier than on the 172.

But if you do all the same mods the engines end up pretty much in the same place. THe 172 is just heavier so the mk1 clios will be faster.

J o n
09-06-2005, 10:01
Alright so maybe there's a bit more than cams, remap and breathing mods.... :oops: lol

In true Williamsclio fashion the following car can be classed as 'near standard'. :wink:

"yozzasport cams, inlet and exhaust manifold match, SMT6,

already had on the car, K+N ik kit, de-cat and stainless system"

And it's 200 + apparently....

I'd be very very confident that if I had the same work on my car it may well show as being 170-180bhp in comparison, but it will put the power down better and be a fair bit quicker. This bhp stuff is confusing, as 2 lives is pretty low from RR's for a 14 second dead 1/4 mile machine... surely it must be about 200bhp??? if not at LEAST 190ish?

2 live
09-06-2005, 10:27
well you wouldve thort so tbh...but i reckon 175 ish is about where its at at the min, maybe even a little less...btw this @ the fly figure lol

personally i only listen to the @wheels figures.....at the end of the day thats wots getting transmitted to the road......

and the last 3 r/r sessions have all been around the 140 @ the wheels mark..which is enough it seems lol

J o n
09-06-2005, 10:43
i'm not arsed about any figures really, on the road is where it counts and there's no better way of telling how fast a Clio is that having a do against one :twisted:

KingStromba
09-06-2005, 11:05
Jesus ill have a do with you in Jills 172. It s a quick one.

J o n
09-06-2005, 11:13
is it standard? dont wanna waste petrol you see ;)

KingStromba
09-06-2005, 11:20
Its fast man

J o n
09-06-2005, 11:22
aaah, but if it's not as quick as your std Willy then i'm better off having a do with yours... I'd love to have a comparison with a 182 though, i wanna see what all the hype is about as they do look like they can certainly move... for a birds car ;)

KingStromba
09-06-2005, 11:28
Standard willy?
:shock:

J o n
09-06-2005, 11:32
thought standard was the future... so what mods has it got since I last saw it, decat, zorst n filter?

KingStromba
09-06-2005, 11:33
Just a zorst, had to get standard back on 0002

J o n
09-06-2005, 11:35
zorsts seem to have made a huge difference on Northy and Gaz' cars... maybe a new one in front? just need to get some schmams now to make it proper quick ;)

did you ever go out in 2 lives at FCS???

Jan
09-06-2005, 12:41
i'm looking forward to a few passenger rides on the 29th.... see what all the hype's about :wink:

KingStromba
09-06-2005, 12:55
no i didnt

Smokey McPot
09-06-2005, 12:55
standard is the only way :D

J o n
09-06-2005, 12:56
standard is the only way to guarantee your the slowest person at a meet :D

true true :lol:

KingStromba
09-06-2005, 12:57
But jesus, you all zoom off into the distnce, which leaves the standard boys to look good infront of the ladies. :D

J o n
09-06-2005, 13:00
either that or we get to the good birds first and you slowuns get the munters.

Smokey McPot
09-06-2005, 13:04
standard is the only way to guarantee your the slowest person at a meet :D

true true :lol:

crappest. misquote. EVER.

anyway, if you're ever in my manor, offers open.

J o n
09-06-2005, 13:07
:D

where's Bedford near?

you got a 182 or a Williams too? :?

KingStromba
09-06-2005, 13:16
Jesus' UK tour :D

Jan
09-06-2005, 13:16
nearish Luton

J o n
09-06-2005, 13:40
hehe, I need tour bus like Bayliss' :D

Luton... hmm, that's not too close to Cheshire... having said that I could tour the country and in th process my engine should be nicely run in by then :lol:

Smokey McPot
09-06-2005, 15:23
:D

where's Bedford near?

you got a 182 or a Williams too? :?

Standard Williams 1 and a standard 172 Cup

M1 Junction 13/14 area, if that helps.

J o n
09-06-2005, 15:32
nice, the only other Clio i'd consider is the Cup... obviously the valver too.

what's the Cup like to a 182? I presume its faster?

lagerlout1
09-06-2005, 15:46
In a straight line, which it seems is what your interested in, there's nothing in it. According to a few opinons after the RS Brands day, the Cup is still the nimbler of the two round the track. The have a near identical power to weight ratio.

Smokey McPot
09-06-2005, 15:47
According to the book, they're about the same....real life.....Cup's faster, but really not a huge amount in it......round a few bends Cuppy is tighter than a 'cupped' 182. Not driven a 182.....only compared to a few i've met on the road

Its noisier inside tho.

lagerlout1
09-06-2005, 15:51
Same as any car, 'X' Cup could be quicker than 'Y' 182, whereas 'X' 182 could be quicker than 'Y' Cup.

For the record my 172 was quicker (just) than my mates Cup in a straight line....

KingStromba
09-06-2005, 16:00
I think cups are faster round the track because then type of person who would buy one, would be more interested in going faster, therefore would probably drive it faster.

lagerlout1
09-06-2005, 16:04
That's not a bad theory. The light weight helps though.

J o n
09-06-2005, 16:11
I like what Reno are doing with the sport hatch range, but I still think they have lost sight and focus, why cant they do a light weight stripped out car, I dont mean a Cup either, something in the region of 800-900kg... is it actually illegal for safety reason or do they just choose not to... I'm all for them bringing out more powerful versions, but if the weight goes up and the power to weight remains the same what's the point.

Has anyone run a 182 down the strip yet, what realistically would a run in one get, about the same as a run in 172? I noticed some of the people that went from the 172 to the 182 said it was faster, but that cant really be the case when they are slower on paper until loosened up too :?

Chris n`nic
09-06-2005, 16:20
I`ll have a play on Monday if you want Jon. Mines in for some bits on Monday but I might have it back for the Jap meet. It seems to be pulling pretty well at the mo tbh...better than for a while but still not like it was in its hayday...If it ain`t ready I`ll still have a play but I don`t think a 1.2 will cope!


Chris

J o n
09-06-2005, 16:24
WOOO! Deffo mate! Think those revs of yours will be my undoing tho! lol

You and Nic deffo coming then fella, when's the kiddy due???

FlamingMonkey
09-06-2005, 16:25
I`ll have a play on Monday if you want Jon. Mines in for some bits on Monday but I might have it back for the Jap meet. It seems to be pulling pretty well at the mo tbh...better than for a while but still not like it was in its hayday...If it ain`t ready I`ll still have a play but I don`t think a 1.2 will cope!


Chris

Oh aye you'll play with him but not me :cry:

J o n
09-06-2005, 16:29
I thought he always played with you Rob??? You told me he was very gentle too! :o

i suppose we could all play with each other :shock: pmsl

northy
09-06-2005, 16:31
I`ll have a play on Monday if you want Jon. Mines in for some bits on Monday but I might have it back for the Jap meet. It seems to be pulling pretty well at the mo tbh...better than for a while but still not like it was in its hayday...If it ain`t ready I`ll still have a play but I don`t think a 1.2 will cope!


Chris

Oh aye you'll play with him but not me :cry:

Your all mine matie... :D

Chris n`nic
09-06-2005, 16:40
Any willie will do...thats Robs phrase btw! :lol:
@ Rob. When mine comes back next week we can go for a blast up the M65 and see what happens...as long as renault don`t **** me car up (not holding my breath tho!)

chris

FlamingMonkey
09-06-2005, 16:42
I`ll have a play on Monday if you want Jon. Mines in for some bits on Monday but I might have it back for the Jap meet. It seems to be pulling pretty well at the mo tbh...better than for a while but still not like it was in its hayday...If it ain`t ready I`ll still have a play but I don`t think a 1.2 will cope!


Chris

Oh aye you'll play with him but not me :cry:

Your all mine matie... :D

hehe

J o n
09-06-2005, 16:42
wassup with it matey???

FlamingMonkey
09-06-2005, 16:43
wassup with it matey???

It's Gay

northy
09-06-2005, 16:46
wassup with it matey???

It's Gay

its a 172....what a silly question to ask jesus....tut tut :wink:

J o n
09-06-2005, 16:48
wassup with it matey???

It's Gay

its a 172....what a silly question to ask jesus....tut tut :wink:

okay okay, well apart from the fact it's a laydeees car ;)

Chris n`nic
09-06-2005, 16:51
Yeah Yeah.....something good when my car (standard :wink: ) is poorly but is still willie speed! Naa it is a bit tappety at the mo so it is going into renault to see what`s up (joys of warrenty :P )

Chris

J o n
09-06-2005, 16:55
i think Chris is making it all up... ive never seen that car perform slowly mate!!! is Darth Vader still in the engine bay, or did you take him out? That could explain the missing power if so... put him back in and feel the force :D

FlamingMonkey
09-06-2005, 16:56
haha bet you get that Ginge/Red 1.2 again

Chris n`nic
09-06-2005, 16:59
lol the one with the dodgy handbrake?! :wink:

It is still pretty fast but still not quite there...used to be quite brutal but maybe I`m just getting used to it. When me and Jon (2live) had a blast at Brunty a couple of years ago it flew past and I think Jon was getting mid 14`s at the time....It will return!!! :lol:

Chris

Smokey McPot
09-06-2005, 18:28
I like what Reno are doing with the sport hatch range, but I still think they have lost sight and focus, why cant they do a light weight stripped out car, I dont mean a Cup either, something in the region of 800-900kg... is it actually illegal for safety reason or do they just choose not to... I'm all for them bringing out more powerful versions, but if the weight goes up and the power to weight remains the same what's the point.

Has anyone run a 182 down the strip yet, what realistically would a run in one get, about the same as a run in 172? I noticed some of the people that went from the 172 to the 182 said it was faster, but that cant really be the case when they are slower on paper until loosened up too :?

I have heard that the average is low to mid 14's on a 1/4mile.....some sub 14. Depends on the driver, but i doubt they'd be much more than a rizla between any of them.

Martin
09-06-2005, 18:59
eh! you ain't talking about 182 with those times! lol Most run low 15s so far...

Smokey McPot
09-06-2005, 20:51
Cups.....i dont pay attention to 182's :p

Andy
09-06-2005, 21:48
chris and nics car is fooking quick if he is going past fellas just wave you aint catching it :cry:

Martin
09-06-2005, 22:04
You been spanked by it or summut pal?

Martin
09-06-2005, 22:06
Cups.....i dont pay attention to 182's :p

Well it depends what has been done to them...but stnd they run more like flat 15 high 14s...r-sport, exhaust and filter + back seats out seems to work wonders with many cars though...

Jabba the...
09-06-2005, 22:27
my old 172 pissed all over my mates valver (decat) amazin how much better they go with a 7.5k rev limit etc, pulled about 15-20 car lenghts in third. then again it was quicker than cups and 182s :)

KingStromba
09-06-2005, 22:29
20 car lengths? Valver must have been broken mate.

Martin
09-06-2005, 22:41
he must have been parked up..lol

Smokey McPot
09-06-2005, 23:06
I had a little blast again Night Icon's valver from Cliosport.....he'd had a bit of work done to it but not a lot. There was a world of difference.

Martin
09-06-2005, 23:08
Come to York on the 19th! :D

2 live
10-06-2005, 10:27
lol.that little blast at brunters was good mate hehe......bearing in mind i think i was runnin 14.8s at the time....and had zorst/de-cat/filter mods...urs was fukkin rapid then lol...think u mitev killed it that day??


a lot closer now tho hehe.....as u found out at the 'breaking in' peaks run hehe.....still urs was poorly then and had extra weight in...

on its day id say chris n nics would be on a par with mine how it is now, if it wasnt poorly all the time :wink:

Chris n`nic
10-06-2005, 10:50
Yeah would be a good race if I can get mine sorted...didn`t realise it was only running 14.8`s but even then mine doesn`t come past monkeys and norths etc like it did yours on that day...thats why I know that it ain`t right.....I`m going to replace the throttle pos sensor and the engine temp sensor (as it seems to be running really well at the mo and it has been since it has been really warm)

Chris

2 live
10-06-2005, 11:08
an it was fukkin hot that day too hehe

Chris n`nic
10-06-2005, 11:10
Lol Jordy and Matt are going to a VW thing at Brunty on Tueday...same sort of thing as the PGTi day I reckon....should be some real beasts there I reckon!


Chris

2 live
10-06-2005, 11:12
matt fitted the new turbo yet??

Chris n`nic
10-06-2005, 11:16
I think that is going to be later in the year or for next season. There will be a lot of peps with a similar setup at Brunty so he will be able to ask a lot of questions about the best things to improve it

Chris

northy
10-06-2005, 11:35
well it defo wasnt right on the track days as i was pushing you around....but on the rr day you came past me and nothing i could do to pull anything back.

and 190bhp at the fly to my 177 says it all mate. Its fine.

Chris n`nic
10-06-2005, 12:08
Yeah I had the filter with the cold air prevention pipe on at oulton lol

Would like to see the vid of the RR day...maybe you could bring it to the Jap meet? :)

Chris

lagerlout1
10-06-2005, 16:13
You ought to let the missus drive it Chris, she'd be quicker.. :D

Chris n`nic
10-06-2005, 18:07
Very true m8! I get shouted at for racing but she is allowed to race (and I`m usually next to her egging her on! lol)

Chris