View Full Version : HELP WITH LOOMS (Cant get fuel pump to prime)
Laine_16v
31-12-2007, 15:19
Just swapped my bodged loom for a new one.
Everything works but the fuel pump wont prime. Fuses are fine, and it turns on when you feed it 12v directly it turns on.
There is 1 lead missing from the brown chunky plug in the relay box,a yellow one that was present on the old loom but not the new one.
Any help of diagrams, im pulling at straws here, no voltage at the fuse box for the pump either.
Loom was from L reg valver, (going into J plate)
MattyH16valver
31-12-2007, 15:23
mat browns prob ur best bet, he knows the differences between the looms on the different phs's.
not 100% sure but i think the wire thats missing on the plug is there but in a different location and needs swapping across. i know that its always the fuel pump wire that the one that causes the trouble.
as above, yellow is always ign live too.
Laine_16v
31-12-2007, 15:52
Ok, if i turn thr key, only 1 relays out of the 4 in the relay box click. Im guessing thats not normal.
Do you know which wires i have to swap on the big brown plug?
is there a wire that is now unused as it doesn,t now match any in the other side of the plug
Laine_16v
31-12-2007, 16:59
OK, we had no luck, but i think there are a few wires that dont match up. Anyway here are some pictures of the engine loom plugs, i forgot to take a pic of the loomg plug that goes to the intrior (other half of brown and white plugs).
OLD LOOM PLUGS:
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q51/laine_16v/OLDBrownPlug.jpg
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q51/laine_16v/OLDWhitePlug.jpg
NEW LOOM PLUGS:
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q51/laine_16v/NEWBrownPlug2.jpg
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q51/laine_16v/NEWBrownPlug1.jpg
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q51/laine_16v/NEWWhitePlug.jpg
my feeling though i,ve never done this is the thick yellow wire on up from the bottom on the right hand side is fuel pump.
on the new plug this is missing.but there a thick red wire that goes nowhere on the left hand side...
Laine_16v
31-12-2007, 17:56
OK ill try that tommorow.
Ive had a chat with Ronsvalver about it, he seems the lack of the white wire on the new white plug is the problem.
White wires are fuel pump control wires aparently.
yes mate they seem to be white. just the red/yellow are ignition so it may be that.
just seem to remember something about the brown plug.
whatever be careful as you don,t won,t to melt a new loam....
best of luck and happy new year
the new loom is phase 2, i had teh same problem when i fitted a williams engine for someone, the look you have must be from an l reg phase 2?
Right my cup car has a been messed about quite a bit, and im pretty sure its a phase 1.5 engine loom on it... so here's whats been done to it.
This is the ignition relay, note the yellow wire.
http://www.reacthosting.com/summeh/cup/loom/small%20-%20ignition%20relay.JPG
And the fuel relay, again yellow wire...
http://www.reacthosting.com/summeh/cup/loom/small%20-%20fuel%20relay.JPG
Both these yellow wires, and another chunky yellow wire go into a custom connector, in the pic below you can see the 3 wires coming out the top, 1 goes to the fuel relay, the other to the ign relay. The 2 wires going in at the bottom are the ones from the chassis loom.
http://www.reacthosting.com/summeh/cup/loom/small%20-%20fuel-ign%20relays%20-%20yellow%20wire%20feed.JPG
The chunky wire from above (engine side) is from pin C7 on the engine connector, and one of the relay wires is from D6. The 3rd wire coming off that extra connector above doesn't appear to match up on the standard engine loom connector so it must be extra.
http://www.reacthosting.com/summeh/cup/loom/small%20-%20engine%20loom%20connector.JPG
This is the chassis side of the loom connector... Note the two cut yellow wires in the corner are the ones that match up to C7 and D6 on the engine connector.
http://www.reacthosting.com/summeh/cup/loom/small%20-%20chassis%20connector.JPG
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There is another odd mod on my car, not sure its related, might be for something else and it doesn't seem to effect the pump from priming, but then I didn't try to start the car either, so don't know.
The pic below shows a yellow and green (earth?) cable coiming from the chassis loom and connecting to a big phat yellow wire, I'm pretty sure the big yellow wire is from pin A1 on the engine loom connector. The chassis loom connector it doesn't even have a pin/cut wire for A1 though.
http://www.reacthosting.com/summeh/cup/loom/small%20-%20A1%20connector%20mod.JPG
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High res pics of the above available here incase you need them:
http://www.reacthosting.com/summeh/cup/loom/
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So in summary all you need to do, according to mine, is connect up the yellow wire on the fuel relay to the supply from D6. 8)
Not sure about the odd yellow+green to yellow connector, didn't seem to make a difference with the fuel pump priming then I unplugged it.
run an ignition live to the white/red (the feed for the fuel pump).
Laine_16v
31-12-2007, 21:53
Right ive got my head around that.
Basically its just recconecting all the mismatched switched live ignition wires.
Recconecting the 2 major switched ign lives (D6 & C7). And then connecting the final mismatced live?
And then some relays?? ok im confused haha
Stan, which wire is that, theres hundreds liked it. Is it on the chassis/engine connectors or the relays?
Clio_GTT
01-01-2008, 11:57
Right ive got my head around that.
Basically its just recconecting all the mismatched switched live ignition wires.
Recconecting the 2 major switched ign lives (D6 & C7). And then connecting the final mismatced live?
And then some relays?? ok im confused haha
Stan, which wire is that, theres hundreds liked it. Is it on the chassis/engine connectors or the relays?
think he means under the flap ontop of the fuel pump, just splice an ign live to that wire and it'll turn on with the ignition, we had to do that mod to our clio gtt.
Laine_16v
01-01-2008, 12:11
OK ive been tinkering this morning.
Ive managed to find the plug on the white connector that triggers the fuel pump, so i put a feed of 12v from that battery to it, and it runs constantly.
Tryed turning it over, it cranks but wont fire, so looks like i have a worse problem. The engine bay doesnt smell of petrol after cranking so i think the ECU isnt telling injectors to fire?
Laine_16v
01-01-2008, 15:15
OK ive given up.
Basically the fuel pump relay wasnt clicking on, but ive managed to trick it into clicking on when you turn the key (along with the ignition relay).
So when i turn the key in the ignition the fuel pump comes on constantly now (it dosnt prime and then just turn off?)
But the engine still wont fire.
sound slike the the 12v suppply to the ecu is also out of place....if you look at the two brown plugs when joined, you'll see one fat white wire on the engine side doesnt go to anything. connect an ign live to this.
tbh mate...i'd find the right loom...
Laine_16v
01-01-2008, 20:23
Yes as said ive now given up, i needed the car today to get me back to bristol but couldnt get it fixed in time.
So the looms coming out and ill put a 100% ph1 loom in, ****ing sodding wanking stupid piss wank crap cars.
absolute nightmare mate loom connections, as said phase 1 loom is required to save ball ache, otherwise could be there for ages tryin sort it :(
eternalife
01-01-2008, 21:50
Right my cup car has a been messed about quite a bit, and im pretty sure its a phase 1.5 engine loom on it... so here's whats been done to it.
Summeh, your loom looks as if it was originally a phase 1 loom (like Laines original loom connection) and then was modified.
From what I can tell the differences of the Two Looms:
Brown Plug Phase 1 Loom
Position C7 = Yellow Wire
Position B2 = No Wire
Brown Plug Phase 1.5 Loom
Position C7 = No Wire
Position B2 = Red Wire
White Plug Phase 1 Loom Wires:
Row 1: Grey - None - Red - None - None - Red
Row 2: None - White - None - White - None - None - None
White Plug Phase 1.5 Loom Wires:
Row 1: Grey - None - Red - None - None - Red
Row 2: None - None - None - White - None - None - None
Cannot remember if there were any differences in the wire thicknesses between the two. If someone is planning on defining their loom they could check against the above.
Although, knowing reno :x , there are probably more looms in existance as well as the Ph1, ph1.5 and ph2 looms. :x
Clio-Girl
02-01-2008, 15:49
This is the prob i had with my naples not starting but we rewired the fuel pump and all is ok now!
Laine_16v
02-01-2008, 18:22
Easy as that eh?? lol how did you do it?
like stan said, run an ign live to it :p
Laine_16v
02-01-2008, 19:22
You cant just turn the fuel pump on and make it run, i tried that.
The ECU plays a part too.
Clio-Girl
03-01-2008, 11:32
Easy as that eh?? lol how did you do it?
god knows how my other half did it i havent got a clue but it didnt take him very long
Clio-Girl
03-01-2008, 11:35
if you want to know what he did i can give you my number and he can tell you!
you sure the fuel pump is not fecked ???
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