View Full Version : Not Power to ignition
MattyH16valver
12-12-2007, 01:14
When i changed my alternator tonight i did'nt disconnect the battery and when i touched the alternator with the earth wire it sparked like ****! I did'nt disconnect the battery as my alarm always sounds and i cannot turn it off without connecting it back up again. I did disconnect it though and let the siren run down. After fitting the new belt and alternator, and wiring everything back up, i dont seem to have any power on the dash board, and igniton. Could i have ****ed the electirc up? Checked the fuses and they seem ok. May have ****ed the new alternator too! Tried to connect a battery up to the one thats in the car, but both the termimals seemed to get really hot and stated to melt the plastic handled! Anyone have any idea? Was out there till 10 tonight....was -2...lol
ouch, u will have to go through all the fuses mate in both boxs, u could have melted some wires doing that.
Main one to check is the power to the alternator - unwrap some of the tape and check the wire isnt melted (should be red)
If the battery is suspect get a multimeter on it and check the voltage.
Time for a new alarm me thinks mate
1995clio16v
12-12-2007, 10:25
When i changed my alternator tonight i did'nt disconnect the battery and when i touched the alternator with the earth wire it sparked like f**k! I did'nt disconnect the battery as my alarm always sounds and i cannot turn it off without connecting it back up again. I did disconnect it though and let the siren run down. After fitting the new belt and alternator, and wiring everything back up, i dont seem to have any power on the dash board, and igniton. Could i have f**ked the electirc up? Checked the fuses and they seem ok. May have f**ked the new alternator too! Tried to connect a battery up to the one thats in the car, but both the termimals seemed to get really hot and stated to melt the plastic handled! Anyone have any idea? Was out there till 10 tonight....was -2...lol
I bought a new battery when i replaced my alternator as the alternator kept emptying it!!
Dont know whether that would be recommended if your alternator was ****ed....
MattyH16valver
12-12-2007, 10:27
ouch, u will have to go through all the fuses mate in both boxs, u could have melted some wires doing that.
Main one to check is the power to the alternator - unwrap some of the tape and check the wire isnt melted (should be red)
If the battery is suspect get a multimeter on it and check the voltage.
Time for a new alarm me thinks mate
:cry: Thought as much...god damn alarm system, if it was ok I would have disconnected it from the beggining. So is it the black wire that has the circle metal connector on the end that I need to check, or the square plug connector that goes into the top of the alternator? Cheers
the metal one mate with the big O conector on, if u peal the black tape back say around 6" and have a good look at the wire.
My cup racer had a fault before i bought it and melted the wire. I have to replace the full section which is in 3 sections. It runs from the relaybox to the starter then to the alternator.
If its damaged u will see the red outer insulation has melted into the wire strands.
MattyH16valver
12-12-2007, 10:35
the metal one mate with the big O conector on, if u peal the black tape back say around 6" and have a good look at the wire.
My cup racer had a fault before i bought it and melted the wire. I have to replace the full section which is in 3 sections. It runs from the relaybox to the starter then to the alternator.
If its damaged u will see the red outer insulation has melted into the wire strands.
Ok mate...cheers. I did notice that the wire was glowing yellow and smaking when i connected it up to the alternator... :oops: Matt
Might be easier to get a new engine loom than repair mate. Took me while as i have to replace the starter terminal and i carnt buy one that big.
MattyH16valver
12-12-2007, 11:08
Might be easier to get a new engine loom than repair mate. Took me while as i have to replace the starter terminal and i carnt buy one that big.
Thats not good :cry: Surely thats a last resort! :shock:
If the red wire is melted mate - its a replacement loom as its a hell of a job to replace. And u dont want to be spicing in joins as its not the right way of doing it.
MattyH16valver
12-12-2007, 12:35
If the red wire is melted mate - its a replacement loom as its a hell of a job to replace. And u dont want to be spicing in joins as its not the right way of doing it.
Ok mate, thanks.
MatrixGuy
12-12-2007, 14:05
Does your alarm not have a valet mode bud?
I always do this when messing with the battery as it stops it going off.
MattyH16valver
12-12-2007, 14:22
Does your alarm not have a valet mode bud?
I always do this when messing with the battery as it stops it going off.
Not sure if it does mate....its a laserline alarm system. I've never seen any flip switches for it anyway. I've been told that the original switch is next to the glove box, but I could'n c it. :(
MattyH16valver
12-12-2007, 15:35
Even when the alarm and Imobiliser are in valet mode, you still get lights coming up on the dash don't u? Just that the valet mode turns them on and off. :?
valat mode just cancels the imobaliser that automatically comes on after 15 seconds matty. u can still arm and dissarm the alarm
MattyH16valver
12-12-2007, 16:16
Spose the first thing to do is check the voltage of the battery, then the earth wire for the alternator if thats fired, if its not those then i'll try putting the original alternator back in and test that as i don't think it was totally knacker....but the new one may well be now :lol:
i wouldnt do anything till u have checked that cable mate.
it will have likely melted alot of the ecu wires surrounding it, if its been left connected enough to destroy itself!
MattyH16valver
12-12-2007, 20:02
it will have likely melted alot of the ecu wires surrounding it, if its been left connected enough to destroy itself!
:shock: God, i fell like a twat :(
oh sounds like fun,always disconnect the battery mate,i had fun last week when fitting a head unit when a wire in the bacvk of decided to fall out short everything and set the alarm off with the battery disconnected and i did'nt have a overide key to kill it
MattyH16valver
13-12-2007, 12:25
I checked the wire to the alternator last night and could'nt see any obvious melting, and the other wires going to the starter looked ok too. Also hooked up the old alternator, but still no power to ignition. Think the battery is flat now though, so i recharged it last night, gonna give that a go tonight :roll:
MatrixGuy
13-12-2007, 13:57
It's probably why i never try anything myself, i knew if i tried anything i would mess it up. :oops:
MattyH16valver
13-12-2007, 14:26
It's probably why i never try anything myself, i knew if i tried anything i would mess it up. :oops:
I would say u save urslef so much money servicing and changing stuff on the car urslef, but this time it may not :lol: I enjoy woeking on the car, at least i did. Just my shitty alarm and imobliser that would'nt let me disconnect the battery, the disarming does'nt seem to work.
Changing the loom is not a big job, i was worried about doing it on my old hybrid, once you get started the conectors kind of fall it to the right postion :)
Did you definetly check all the fuses in BOTH fuse boxes?? as many people dont reliase there is 2, one in the passenger side footwell and one under the scuttle pannel under the bonnet. Also check the relays in the black box attached to the passenger side strut could of possably knacked one of those
Sounds like you only just arc'd the wire for not very long at all so i would be suprised if you have managed to melt wires
MattyH16valver
13-12-2007, 15:09
Did you definetly check all the fuses in BOTH fuse boxes?? as many people dont reliase there is 2, one in the passenger side footwell and one under the scuttle pannel under the bonnet. Also check the relays in the black box attached to the passenger side strut could of possably knacked one of those
Sounds like you only just arc'd the wire for not very long at all so i would be suprised if you have managed to melt wires
Yeah, I looked in both fuse boxes mate, but I think it's only the one in the footwell that has fuses for the engine....could be wrong though :? Will have to check those relays too then mate...thanks. I'd say the wire was on there a good 20 secs b4 i could take it off...i take to get a towl to pull it off as its was burning my hand! :shock:
MattyH16valver
13-12-2007, 15:09
How can u tell if a relay i knackered? Matt
if its been on that long then im afraid, it does sound like it will of melted the wires.
Didnt read the bit about your the plastic on your jump leads melting, if thats happening it must definetly be shorting out. If this is the case dont connect the battery up again. If the battery is shorting out it will heat up and finally explode covering everything in battery acid
Sounds like a new loom is the easyest way to go im afraid
MattyH16valver
13-12-2007, 19:11
if its been on that long then im afraid, it does sound like it will of melted the wires.
Didnt read the bit about your the plastic on your jump leads melting, if thats happening it must definetly be shorting out. If this is the case dont connect the battery up again. If the battery is shorting out it will heat up and finally explode covering everything in battery acid
Sounds like a new loom is the easyest way to go im afraid
Does'nt sound good then! :cry: I did connect both jump leads to the battery...is that correct...or are you supposed to connect the negative connection to a bit of metal?
dan-hipgrave
13-12-2007, 19:26
On the subject of the alarm - have you looked in the compartment on the passenger side under the wiper arms - my old hybrid had a key slot there and turning that stopped the alarm going off when the battery disconnected.
Also, as has already been said, its probably gonna be easier to replace the whole loom - its not as bad as it sounds and can be done in a couple of hours. Most of the connectors can really only go in one place and its all sort of moulded to shape so falls in place.
Dan
MattyH16valver
13-12-2007, 22:36
On the subject of the alarm - have you looked in the compartment on the passenger side under the wiper arms - my old hybrid had a key slot there and turning that stopped the alarm going off when the battery disconnected.
Also, as has already been said, its probably gonna be easier to replace the whole loom - its not as bad as it sounds and can be done in a couple of hours. Most of the connectors can really only go in one place and its all sort of moulded to shape so falls in place.
Dan
I have'nt had time to check anything properly on the car yet and i'm away working in Belgium this weekend, so I won't have a chance to look at it this weekend :( Don't think i've got one of those key things under the scuttle panel mate tbh. Really hope it's not the loom, but if its gotta be done, then its gotta be done. :shock:
MattyH16valver
22-12-2007, 18:19
Decided to try my old alternator and fully charged battery today, and i then had power to ignition. Cos of this i pressumed that the battery was the cause of the problem before with no power....so i tried the new alternator again...with the battery disconnected this time of course! Thing is this time i connected the battery and the black wire to the alternator started smoking like **** and has now melted the wire! :roll: I can only presume that ive been sold the wrong alternator? :x Heres the damage....would this be repairable? The other wires next to it seem to be ok.....
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c226/MattyH16v/DSCF0805.jpg
Thing is if its melted there if will ahve possibly melted further up where they are loomed together tighter, and affected the other wires, speak to someone like mat brown, it really is that easy to swap the loom over, even with the engine in the car
MattyH16valver
22-12-2007, 18:29
Thing is if its melted there if will ahve possibly melted further up where they are loomed together tighter, and affected the other wires, speak to someone like mat brown, it really is that easy to swap the loom over, even with the engine in the car
K mate...just been speaking with him and he said cos its not an OE alternator (its a Lucas) they may use a different terminal....i presumed it was the bottom one...the same as the old original one :cry:
MattyH16valver
22-12-2007, 19:14
Anyone know which is the + and which is the - terminals on a Lucas alternator....as they have'nt labeled it...and theres no instructions? :roll:
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c226/MattyH16v/DSCF0807.jpg
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c226/MattyH16v/DSCF0808.jpg
Checked mine, and without checking the one on the car 99% sure you need to be going to the terminal with the yellow lead going to it rather than the other one
Lunners right, the charging wire should go to the terminal with the yellow wire
MattyH16valver
22-12-2007, 20:38
Lunners right, the charging wire should go to the terminal with the yellow wire
Cheers mate....the least the could do is tell u what each terminal is.
BristolSam16v
22-12-2007, 22:27
Charging wire is too big for the negative terminal.
MattyH16valver
23-12-2007, 13:55
Decided to pull the dmaged wire out this morning to assess the damage...it looks asthough the shrink tube has melted all the way down to the bottom join....but non of the other wires have been affected. Could someone tell me if this is repairable or not....or is it new loom time? Cheers...Matt :cry:
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c226/MattyH16v/DSCF0809.jpg
If the other wires are ok, then just replace the charging wire.
should be an easy fix :D
MattyH16valver
23-12-2007, 14:03
If the other wires are ok, then just replace the charging wire.
should be an easy fix :D
Ok mate...cheers....how come the wire need replacing then....can i not just get away with taking all the melted shrink tube off and putting some new stuff on?
If the wire looks ok, I can't see a reason why you cant re-wrap it
MattyH16valver
23-12-2007, 14:51
If the wire looks ok, I can't see a reason why you cant re-wrap it
Ok mate....I've started to take off the melted shrink tube....does this wire go all the way around to terminal im holding in the pic? If thats the case then the wire looks a bit shivelled up where it joins the connector......
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c226/MattyH16v/DSCF0811.jpg
would it not be easier to remove the entire loom and assess any damage throughout the cable run? Then you can repair it in the house off the car and refit when finished.
MattyH16valver
24-12-2007, 16:03
would it not be easier to remove the entire loom and assess any damage throughout the cable run? Then you can repair it in the house off the car and refit when finished.
Probably will be mate....but im gonna try and do it in the car first...as ive never removed a loom b4. Wents to mat's today and he sorted me out with the power cable that i melted from another loom.
MattyH16valver
29-12-2007, 16:42
Finally finished the car off today....had to disconnect quite a few connections to have enough free to repair the loom...and thankfully none of the other wires were damaged. Bit of a fidly job...but got there in the end....cheers again to mat for sorting me the power wire out....took it out for s spin this afternoon and loved it! :lol: Heres the manky cable.... :shock:
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c226/MattyH16v/DSCF0813.jpg
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