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willy55
02-06-2005, 21:33
got chatting to a lad from bb about there turbo conversion think bout buying another willy and having it done

keep the number 1 original and say have 2 or 3 or possibly a valver with a snail strapped to it

what u guys think????

Jamie.
02-06-2005, 21:36
tbh mate i dont know about any1 else but my willy costs me fookin loads, and adding a turbo aint gona help for making running more relaible and cheaper, probably gona make it even more expensive. and there is also the fact that my williams is quick enough for me already

northy
02-06-2005, 21:52
there was a williams 2 at fcs with a bbtunning turbo on...check out the pictures that have been posted around for more info

Daz
02-06-2005, 22:55
I'd consider it on a 16v, but not a Williams.

I'd still put Williams Suspension on the 16v, tho!

J o n
02-06-2005, 23:34
wouldn't bother, those engines will be running close to det imo, the bottom end is far to weak to hold the compression.

y0z2a
02-06-2005, 23:39
as bejeesus says - bottom end will be pushed to max.

steel internals will bump the price up to a silly level.

:-(

/y0z

J o n
02-06-2005, 23:42
forged pistons would be a must imo as well as everything balancing... but waste of money, will ruin the cars driving characteristics

Andyvalver
03-06-2005, 06:00
BB tuning covertion is about 5k anyways. You do get a strengthend and balanced bottom end/forged pistons ect.

2 live
03-06-2005, 08:47
but ask yourself this question......are they really quick enough for the outlay??


i think not IMO....theres easier, cheaper and more reliable ways of extracting pure power

Martin
03-06-2005, 09:07
I think they are too expensive for what they are....for the price of a turbo conversion you could buy a faster car!

Dave BB
03-06-2005, 09:38
To answer a few queries....

The Jesus - Detonation is a LONG LONG way away from the work we do to build the turbo cars. We have had 270bhp on 97 octane fuel to prove it....

Yozza - Steel internals ARE NOT needed. Renault built a pretty strong bottom end on the F7 lumps and to date we have not had a bottom end failure on ANY of our turbo Clio's.

The Jesus - As above, forge pistons are NOT needed.

Andy Valver - We re-asemble the bottom end but the only thing we change are the pistons. These are swapped for a Low-comp piston which we use on the high boost conversion. The low boost kit (still 220hp on a Williams) can use the stock pistons.

If anyone would like to see proof of our Turbo Clios then visit our website for pics and Info on when we drove them to an Independant RR day at AMD with Clio sport. If your still not convinced pop down and see us. We have a Turbo'ed valver there which we have covered 30k miles on and to date, the only part needed replacing was the coil which failed due to old age.

To date we, nor any of our customers have had a problem with anyof the following :

Head gasket
Pistons inc rings etc
Turbo
Chargecooler
Bottom end

Hope this sheds some light.

Dave BBT

POWARTEK
03-06-2005, 09:45
Dave, what compression do u go down to and what do you do about management?

VIPERONE
03-06-2005, 09:47
dave, cheers for shedding some light...

pm sent:

Dave BB
03-06-2005, 09:59
Dave, what compression do u go down to and what do you do about management?

We re-programme the OE Renault ECU. Our software allows us to turn the Renault/Siemens ECU's found in the Valver/Williams/Megane etc into more precise ECU's then anything from Gems/Omex/Autronic etc.

We use this precision ECU programming to great effect. Its the same software that gets us 280BHP from our 172 at only 12psi........

2 live
03-06-2005, 10:11
how do u go on with gearboxes, clutches and driveshafts??

Dave BB
03-06-2005, 10:18
how do u go on with gearboxes, clutches and driveshafts??

Drive shafts - Never a problem

Clutches - We reccomend an uprated or at least a new clutch BUT! it depends what you want to do with it. Racing requires a racing clutch which will have a short life span and hard to drive on the road. A good road clutch will have a reasonable life span (providing it isnt mistreated) and still take a bit more punishment.

Gearbox - We have found the Williams box to be much stronger then the Valver for turbo charging. A number of our valver turbo customers have gone for the Williams box upgrade from us because they want to drive the cars hard at the pod etc. The Valver turbo we have here still has the original 80k mile valve box fitted, and has covered 30k miles in turbo form. Its held out because we arent too nasty with it. It gets thrashed yes, but sensibly (no crunching of gears etc).

Hope this helps.

Dave BBT

TwisT
03-06-2005, 10:29
what about a supercharger conversion ? surely it would be much better to drive than a turbo when you take FWD into account........

I am sure its already been done in europe, not sure about UK, someone told me of a guy who fitted a Rotrex supercharger to a Dimma clio 16v (have a couple of pics), 1800cc @ 230bhp and good torque. I am thinking about the simple low-boost bolt-ons, like the charger for the VR6/325I/honda etc

Dave BB
03-06-2005, 10:52
what about a supercharger conversion ? surely it would be much better to drive than a turbo when you take FWD into account........

I am sure its already been done in europe, not sure about UK, someone told me of a guy who fitted a Rotrex supercharger to a Dimma clio 16v (have a couple of pics), 1800cc @ 230bhp and good torque. I am thinking about the simple low-boost bolt-ons, like the charger for the VR6/325I/honda etc

Supercharging the Renault engine is also possible. I know because I have a regular customer in the BB shop with a Dimma kitted supercharged Valver :D (I love the Dimma kits by the way).

As for producing a sellable conversion...... On balance supercharging is a bit more expensive to get the same results from a car then it is to turbo charge it. + a turbo has alot more potential later on for extracting more power (no need to mess about with belts and manifods etc).

Everyone thinks that a turbo FWD car is uncontrollable when the boost comes in. Its true that if you have Nothing.....Nothing.......Nothing..... WOAH BOOST! Then yes it can be a real pig and no fun to drive.

The turbo kit we do has boost and power from the word go. Pop down and have a ride in our Valver....

Mark_Ritchspeed
03-06-2005, 11:29
If you fancy turboing a Clio, what about dropping a Mitsubishi 4G63T (Evo) engine in there and utilise one of the Mitsubishi fwd gearboxes that comes with an lsd.

Near enough 300bhp as standard and bomb-proof internals and will probably work out cheaper than a turbo conversion.

Or for something really different, just buy an Evo1 or 2 and transfer all the running gear over to the Clio shell. Wahey a 300bhp 4wd mk1 Clio.

Or maybe I'm just dreaming?

:roll:

TwisT
03-06-2005, 13:06
If you fancy turboing a Clio, what about dropping a Mitsubishi 4G63T (Evo) engine in there and utilise one of the Mitsubishi fwd gearboxes that comes with an lsd.

Near enough 300bhp as standard and bomb-proof internals and will probably work out cheaper than a turbo conversion.

Or for something really different, just buy an Evo1 or 2 and transfer all the running gear over to the Clio shell. Wahey a 300bhp 4wd mk1 Clio.

Or maybe I'm just dreaming?

:roll:

maybe its possible, ive seen a mk1 golf running 300bhp 4x4 cossie parts !

might check out your Clio turbo, Dave BB, but wouldnt a bolt on charger be cheaper than a turbo, the golf vr6 6psi bolt on charger is only £2000 fitted IIRC, low boost on stock engine ? could it be done for around £2000 on williams f7r?

J o n
03-06-2005, 14:08
Dave, my real concern about the turbo conversion would be that for 5k+ or whatever it costs your not getting much it seems apart from bolt on mods run at their limit... so anymore power and it's going to cost a horrendous amount. Someone has put an Audi TT engine in a Clio with custom mounts, full remap to 290+bhp and 312lbs/ft torque and they have forged pistons and steel internals as standard... all for £4'500... oh and the 6 speed gear box. The other thing is the box, i don't know how hard a life your cars have and if they are serviced more often than usual, but most of the tuned NA cars munch boxes for fun, i'm on my second in no time at all. Other people have blown up Williams boxes new from Reno inside 6 months.
Finally the ECU, your using the standard ECU remapped to suit? I just think it all seems a bit expensive and done a bit on the cheap side for what your getting, imo there are far better engines already out there that would require custom mounts and a bit of fabrication to fit but could be done a) more cheaply b) more reliably and c) output more power with the addition of being able to mod further and more intensively.

Jamie.
03-06-2005, 14:15
at the cost of 5k im suprised this convo has gone on so long, who in their right mind would spend that much money on that mod :?
id rather sell the willy and buy a 2nd hand (poss 7th hand lol) evo for the amounts of money involved!

Tommo
03-06-2005, 15:03
Personally if I had that kind of money I'd prefer to spend it on getting the car totally mint - New set of wheels from reno, full respray, every dint removed etc......but I'm just boring I suppose! ha

Dave BB
03-06-2005, 16:17
Dave, my real concern about the turbo conversion would be that for 5k+ or whatever it costs your not getting much it seems apart from bolt on mods run at their limit... so anymore power and it's going to cost a horrendous amount. Someone has put an Audi TT engine in a Clio with custom mounts, full remap to 290+bhp and 312lbs/ft torque and they have forged pistons and steel internals as standard... all for £4'500... oh and the 6 speed gear box. The other thing is the box, i don't know how hard a life your cars have and if they are serviced more often than usual, but most of the tuned NA cars munch boxes for fun, i'm on my second in no time at all. Other people have blown up Williams boxes new from Reno inside 6 months.
Finally the ECU, your using the standard ECU remapped to suit? I just think it all seems a bit expensive and done a bit on the cheap side for what your getting, imo there are far better engines already out there that would require custom mounts and a bit of fabrication to fit but could be done a) more cheaply b) more reliably and c) output more power with the addition of being able to mod further and more intensively.

Im not sure what you mean by a "bolt on mod". Every thing has a bolt/clip/bracket to hold it in place/fix it down..... Even a forged con rod has a "bolt". Does this make forged con-rods a bolt on mod?

The F7 engine is no where near its limit (and neither are the turbo parts) at this comp ratio/boost threshold etc. Renault have had over 700hp from this lump :D

If we are discussing engine transplants, why not just drop in a skyline lump? Fair play to the guys that did the TT transplant and Im not knocking what they do, but its a seperate issue. If it was dead easy to just drop the engine in and TT lumps where falling out the sky then yeah ok it would be more worth it but its never as easy as "just make a few custom mounts".

Our cars lead a hard life and are serviced no more or less regularly then any other Clio. A Gearbox lasts as long as its treated. Anything that fails inside its warranty then send it back. We have never had a Williams or 16V gearbox go faulty. Ive seen people fit gear boxes with out re-fitting the correct brackets/bolts etc and as such its put too much strain on it causing it to fail early. Is this perhaps what happened with your freind?

You seem to contradict your self on the ECU "It seems a bit expensive and done a bit on the cheap side"???????

Dave BB
03-06-2005, 16:18
at the cost of 5k im suprised this convo has gone on so long, who in their right mind would spend that much money on that mod :?
id rather sell the willy and buy a 2nd hand (poss 7th hand lol) evo for the amounts of money involved!

Go buy your evo, let me know and I'll race ya. £500 to the winner :wink:

Dave BB
03-06-2005, 16:21
but wouldnt a bolt on charger be cheaper than a turbo, the golf vr6 6psi bolt on charger is only £2000 fitted IIRC, low boost on stock engine ? could it be done for around £2000 on williams f7r?

I dont know too much about this kit so I couldnt comment but im not sure it could be £2k fitted :o

Slithers
03-06-2005, 16:30
+ were all forgetting that turbos sound ace, and its a mod you dont see very often, and you'll get a warranty no doubt with that modification

J o n
03-06-2005, 16:33
Dave, i'd just like to know what justifies the massive price for what seems like a relatively simple kit that's all, i'd expect a lot of work done to the bottom end for this price and some things dont make sense to me, so i'm trying to set them straight in my own mind.
The gearbox is the main thing i dont understand, i've gone though one already, 2 live is on god knows what number gearbox and has replaced with new items, Clean16v has gone through countless box's also...

Fair point about the TT engine's, but the whole conversion has cost £4'500 for what I would say will be a more reliable engine (afterall, they spent millions developing the engine, I dont imagine BB have spent the same... although I could be wrong)... as for the Skyline engine try and get the box to fit... it prolly takes up the entire engine bay lol

My last point regarding the ECU was a seperate issue, that was a stand alone question... I re-read that bit and it doesn't make too much sense lol.
What I meant is the whole conversion is expensive but seems as though it should be cheaper for what you get is all. Nick is the only person I know of and the only person on Clio Sport that has under taken this, in honesty how many cars have you actually done this conversion for in the UK?

northy
03-06-2005, 16:46
i loved the williams turbo that was at FCS....is there any chance you can come and bring it on our williamsclio Trackday DAVE ????

Oh and thanks for taking the time to answer our questions mate.

FATBOY
03-06-2005, 16:49
i got chatting to the person who owns the willy turbo that was on the BB stand! and believe it or not he lives on the other side of my town! he is registered on here(skinnyboy his nickname is i think) said he will try and get over to some of our east anglia meets! be nice to see what the beast can do!

Dave BB
03-06-2005, 17:03
Fair point about the TT engine's, but the whole conversion has cost £4'500 for what I would say will be a more reliable engine

I dont imagine BB have spent the same... although I could be wrong)...

in honesty how many cars have you actually done this conversion for in the UK?

As Ive pointed out, we have a car thats cover 30K, never had a problem.

We probably spent about £250,000 developing and testing the kit, and its still going.

We have carried out :

2 x Williams conversions
14 x Valver conversions *
3 x R19 conversions

* (+2 valvers which we built for ourselves)

None are yet to report any reliability problems.

As for the costs :

Chargecooler £550-£600
Injectors £300+
Silicon hoses £200
T28 Turbo £1000
Turbo manifold £350-£400
Exhaust down pipe £300+
ECU system with loom £1000

This is roughly what I estimate the costs to be should you try and turbo the F7 at home. That list is just shy of £4k and I am only about 1/3 of the way down all the bits I can think of that are needed to turbo the car. Our turbo kit is £4k AND has all the bits in it. Yeah ok you could save a few quid here and there, Re-con turb etc but why skimp on quality?

Yes this does mean that we charge £1500 to fit the kit. BUT! it takes us around 40 hours to build the car up, but thats only £37.50 per hour. I beleive this to be cheap when compared to other garages. What do Renault now charge by the way? £65 Ive heard from one dealership.....

Try not to look at the costs in terms of parts used, look at it this way....

Assuming a stock Williams is 150hp/120lbft after exhaust and filter....

BBPT turbo kit = £5500 / 220hp (70hp gain) = 1hp gain per £78.50 spend
BBPT turbo kit = £5500 / 210lbft (90lbft gain) = 1lbft gain per £61 spend

Misc throttle body kit * = £4000 / 190hp (40hp gain) = 1hp gain per £100 spend
Misc throttle body kit * = £4000 / 160lbft (40lbft gain) = 1lbft gain per £100 spend

* Prices include Cams etc and are estimates.

With the throttle body kit you have to thrash it to high rpm to get the power and extra torque as with the cams required to make this extra power, you wont feel it until after 5000rpm.

The turbo kicks in at about 2500rpm and has considerably less Power Vs pound spend on it then N/A tuning.

If any one doubts these figures and wants to go head to head, I say lets go and as Ive always said...

UNLIKE OTHER COMPANIES WE ARE MORE THEN HAPPY FOR PEOPLE TO HAVE A LOOK AT OUR TURBO KITS ON THE ROLLERS AND ON THE ROAD AND AGAIN UNLIKE OTHER COMPANIES, WE HAVE AND WIL CONTINUE TO TAKE OUR TURBO'S TO INDEPENDANT RR'S FOR PEOPLE TO SEE THE POWER THEY MAKE.

At the end of the day guys Im not trying to fool you into thinking that its cheap. It isnt. I know that £5500 is a big whack of money in one go and if there was a way we could make it cheaper we would, believe me! But, before the kit is written off as being "not worth it" (as it has done on other forums I might add), consider the power for pound figures above......

Dave BBT[/b]

Dave BB
03-06-2005, 17:06
i loved the williams turbo that was at FCS....is there any chance you can come and bring it on our williamsclio Trackday DAVE ????

Oh and thanks for taking the time to answer our questions mate.

Well I dont actually own the car so I cant make no promises on the customer's behalf but the owner (Dan) is a great chap and will probably be more then happy to pop along. Anglia meets? Give me a date and a time and Im there.

No worries about the questions mate.

Did you get my mail about the de-cat pipe?

Dave BBT

big hp
03-06-2005, 17:08
The figures make sense Dave. the problem comes with such a big outlay. If I had the money i'd buy a cheap valver and do it to that. Wouldn't want to do it to my williams. Maybe next year :twisted:

KingStromba
03-06-2005, 17:13
Turbo Schmurbo


I put a sequrential gearbox on my car and it will piss all over any turbo conversion Williams. Lets face it a sequential gearbox would also be more fun. Imagine the thrill of coming up to a roundabout and changing down with a few click forward. Awesome. They are also about 5k i beleive.

Nick Reads turbo conversion spends more time int he garage than on track. What a waste of money. If you want a turbo buy an evo.

J o n
03-06-2005, 17:18
fair enough, I can see why people have gone for it. horses for courses I guess. for 70bhp increase I think N/A would be better and cheaper... well it is cheaper and produces just as much power, see Clean16v's throttle body conversion. as cool as the idea is it's still vastly over priced imo. still, i'd like to see one of these turbo's 1/4 mile or just see one on the road giving it some.

northy
03-06-2005, 17:20
i loved the williams turbo that was at FCS....is there any chance you can come and bring it on our williamsclio Trackday DAVE ????

Oh and thanks for taking the time to answer our questions mate.

Well I dont actually own the car so I cant make no promises on the customer's behalf but the owner (Dan) is a great chap and will probably be more then happy to pop along. Anglia meets? Give me a date and a time and Im there.

No worries about the questions mate.

Did you get my mail about the de-cat pipe?

Dave BBT

Not that i know off...its my brother who bought it from you.

I had ago at fitting it on monday, but it needed a bore cutting into the flange and a larger diameter pipe to clear the manifold down pipe.

I dont want to cut his downpipe flush as his car is so original and rust free it will hurt me.

Dave BB
03-06-2005, 17:21
Turbo Schmurbo


I put a sequrential gearbox on my car and it will piss all over any turbo conversion Williams.

Nick Reads turbo conversion spends more time int he garage than on track. What a waste of money. If you want a turbo buy an evo.

Wanna put £500 on that stromba? :wink: Im ready to race if you are....

Nick read puts his car round the Nurburgring, Santa pod and countless other track days etc etc etc all year round. His most recent problem as to WHY its in our garage is not that there is anything wrong with the car. More that last time he was at Nurburg, some numpty put a huge great silencer in his side exit and reduce the bore size to less then 1 inch! :o

This caused the exhaust gasses to back up and subject the exhaust system, down pipe, turbo and manifold to temps of 170 degrees +, and then drove home from Germany like this.

Is it any wonder a gasket blew and a mount broke? NOTHING else on the car has let go as a result of this "silencer" and if it had never been bodged on, Nick would never have had a problem.

Dave BBT

northy
03-06-2005, 17:23
i thought it was nicks ecu that packed up....but i can see what yoru saying about the exhaust.

Plus the BB tuning (rear exit) one you sell looked class when it was fitted to his car....if mine ever goes i will be buying one of them...defo

KingStromba
03-06-2005, 17:23
Id like to see one of these BB tuning turbo cars on track. Why werent they on track at the fcs?

They are made to go fast or just to sit there with the engine bay open looking shiny with girls draped on them?

Dave BB
03-06-2005, 17:27
fair enough, I can see why people have gone for it. horses for courses I guess. for 70bhp increase I think N/A would be better and cheaper... well it is cheaper and produces just as much power, see Clean16v's throttle body conversion. as cool as the idea is it's still vastly over priced imo. still, i'd like to see one of these turbo's 1/4 mile or just see one on the road giving it some.

Did you read my post above? I have just proved the N/A tuning Isnt as cost effective as Turbo Tuning. I would love to see a 16V throttle body car, on the rollers and on the road and would LOVE to go head to head with it.

As said before on the subject of price, If you feel you can turbo a Williams and make over 200hp for less then £4k...... Please tell me how. I am not trying to kid anyone over price, £4k (£5500 fitted) is a lot of dough but id gladly bet on a Williams Turbo against :

Pulsar (300hp)
Evo (300hp)
Subrau (300hp)

-none of which you would buy for less then £10k (and get to 300hp) which is what you could do a Williams Turbo for.

Zollo
03-06-2005, 17:30
If we're honest with ourselves, no tuning is value for money and it's not about that really. Hell, a tuned Williams isn't even good value for money in outright power/performance terms - at least £3.5k to buy one and £2k to tune it. I could have a 300bhp Cossie, Evo, Supra, M5 for that.

The turbo kit is a very different way of gaining some serious power and the more people there are out there doing this kind of thing the better. I hardly think it's a rip-off. It's entirely down to preferences, if you like the revvy n/a characteristic, go cams and t/b, if you like accessable grunt go for the BB kit.

I would say though, Williams are notorious for their low down grunt and midrange, much like turbos. Tuning it for more power and hence revs would change the characteristics more than a well done Turbo conversion.

Having said that Dave, unless I'm very much mistaken, your sums either don't add up or the turbo project wasn't a very profitable venture - 21 kits at £5500 = £115,500. Total R&D = £250,000. :shock:

Both forced induction and natural aspiration tuning are bad value for money, but very good fun. :D

Dave BB
03-06-2005, 17:35
i thought it was nicks ecu that packed up....but i can see what yoru saying about the exhaust.

Plus the BB tuning (rear exit) one you sell looked class when it was fitted to his car....if mine ever goes i will be buying one of them...defo

Nick had a problem at the Ring once before and the problem was mis-diagnosed by an "expert" as an ECU failure. Upon testing the ECU back here everything was hunkey dorey (again another victory for the reliable turbo kit :P ). It was actually his immobaliser that pansied up on him.

Dave BBT

Dave BB
03-06-2005, 17:36
Id like to see one of these BB tuning turbo cars on track. Why werent they on track at the fcs?

They are made to go fast or just to sit there with the engine bay open looking shiny with girls draped on them?

None of our customers where on the Track at FCS as its a long way to get home Via the AA if you have a crash.

We dont have any girls on our stand, never have and never will do. Its not what we are about.

Dave BB
03-06-2005, 17:39
Having said that Dave, unless I'm very much mistaken, your sums either don't add up or the turbo project wasn't a very profitable venture - 21 kits at £5500 = £115,500. Total R&D = £250,000. :shock:

Both forced induction and natural aspiration tuning are bad value for money, but very good fun. :D

Your sums are correct on the costs vs profit for the turbo kits. But we didnt do it expecting to be paid back in a weekend and be millionaires over night. We did it :

A. Because we love Renaults
B. We love Turbo Renaults
C. The Clio needed a good kick up the backside :lol:

KingStromba
03-06-2005, 17:40
Turbo Schmurbo


I put a sequrential gearbox on my car and it will piss all over any turbo conversion Williams.

Nick Reads turbo conversion spends more time int he garage than on track. What a waste of money. If you want a turbo buy an evo.

Wanna put £500 on that stromba? :wink: Im ready to race if you are....

Nick read puts his car round the Nurburgring, Santa pod and countless other track days etc etc etc all year round. His most recent problem as to WHY its in our garage is not that there is anything wrong with the car. More that last time he was at Nurburg, some numpty put a huge great silencer in his side exit and reduce the bore size to less then 1 inch! :o

This caused the exhaust gasses to back up and subject the exhaust system, down pipe, turbo and manifold to temps of 170 degrees +, and then drove home from Germany like this.

Is it any wonder a gasket blew and a mount broke? NOTHING else on the car has let go as a result of this "silencer" and if it had never been bodged on, Nick would never have had a problem.

Dave BBT


Yes ill put £100000 on that Dave,

The Clio Cup race car (modern series) will do 0-60 in about 5.5 seconds on account of the sequential gearbox, despite having only around 180 bhp atf.

Your turbo will be lighting up the front tyres out of every corner (if indeed it makes it to the track before the bottom end blows or the gearbox melts)

Dave BB
03-06-2005, 17:42
Let me know then when your sequential box is fitted. :P

Zollo
03-06-2005, 17:43
Having said that Dave, unless I'm very much mistaken, your sums either don't add up or the turbo project wasn't a very profitable venture - 21 kits at £5500 = £115,500. Total R&D = £250,000. :shock:

Both forced induction and natural aspiration tuning are bad value for money, but very good fun. :D

Your sums are correct on the costs vs profit for the turbo kits. But we didnt do it expecting to be paid back in a weekend and be millionaires over night. We did it :

A. Because we love Renaults
B. We love Turbo Renaults
C. The Clio needed a good kick up the backside :lol:

Good answer! :D

KingStromba
03-06-2005, 17:46
And you let me know when you can make a turbo conversion reliable. :P

Allan
03-06-2005, 17:48
hmm well, i liked the look of those turbos and if they are reliable then i would deffo be getting one, will have to see how much bank roll i can get saved up as im stupidly skint atm.
My valver has more problems then nicks turbo anyday ! and mines standard lol

would really like to see one go around the track though, see the kinda of performance one can put out

Dave BB
03-06-2005, 17:49
And you let me know when you can make a turbo conversion reliable. :P

Consider yourself notified. As ive said in about 3 posts now....

Our 1.8 16V turbo Clio has had a hard life. Its covered 30k miles with Andy at the helm, driving it how its ment to be driven. So far, it has never had a problem except for a coil which failed due to old age. This car is in our daily "fleet" and we take potential customers out for test drives in this car.

Out of all the conversions we have done, we are yet to have a customer report a fault with the car that has not been caused by something else beyond our control (Nick's exhaust for example).

So, where is the sequential box? :P

J o n
03-06-2005, 17:50
Dave, i'm not trying to start an argument here, but your prices seem way out. N/A tuning is more expensive to get the same results, but when you say your turbo kit only makes 220bhp for £5'5k then already it's more expensive than a body conversion making 4bhp less and like your kit is also proven. I could go to another company tomorrow if I had the money and spend a couple of grand less (if not even more of a saving) and have an RR with a similar result but on NA. You talk like we dont know these cars, but look at some of the results from tuning with cams and chips and these cars will be almost as fast and in some cases faster than the cars you have mentioned above... I have seen 2 lives car eat 350z and Scoobs from standing and rolling, so to me I look at £5'500 for an extra 20-30bhp as highly expensive... incidentally a decent set of cams and a good remap will cost £1500 tops and produce a car capable of beating base model impreza's etc on the road. Mine has only had cams and already is fast enough to hold off an RC developments tuned Scooby UK classic with 250+bhp until it runs out of gears. I mean it literally will not pull on me until i'm at top speed... an extra 50bhp i'd need to make it look silly is available from throttle bodies at a more realistic price. Either way, the price will never change and i'll never turbo my Williams, so it's all immaterial really. I just wanted to know why it's so expensive really, as I'm positive it could be done for much less... which is obviously the case if your still on a loss from them... so really you need to sell as many as possible

Dave BB
03-06-2005, 17:54
Thats fair does Jesus, Im not trying to start an argument either BUT it is unfair to critacise something which has not been seen, driven or even tested by the critasicser (spelling????), do you not agree?

As ive said before, lets put a TB's Williams against a Turbo Williams.

J o n
03-06-2005, 18:00
no no, not criticising mate, I think it's a fantastic idea for the people that would be interested, i'm just saying you dont seem to get a lot for the money spent... maybe i'm just being far to Yorkshire, but I have an RR graph on my machine now with results from a throttle bodied 2.0 that's running 216bhp and a torque curve that's very high at 4k and flat lines from 5k to the redline. would be interesting to compare the two though, that's for sure.

Dave BB
03-06-2005, 18:05
no no, not criticising mate, I think it's a fantastic idea for the people that would be interested, i'm just saying you dont seem to get a lot for the money spent... maybe i'm just being far to Yorkshire, but I have an RR graph on my machine now with results from a throttle bodied 2.0 that's running 216bhp and a torque curve that's very high at 4k and flat lines from 5k to the redline. would be interesting to compare the two though, that's for sure.

To be honest, RR graphs from most places dont mean alot to me. I got chatting to one guy (really nice guy I might add by the way) at FCS who had a print out of 184hp from his williams with just a panel filter. Errrrrr I'll let that one sink in for a bit.

Not saying for a moment that your graph is wrong by any means but if you want a graph you know to be accurate, try AMD or bring it to us. I reckon we could get a good graph then.

And before someone says "Yeah but your quoting figures from a RR!" We tested the turbos on several RR's (BBPT, AMD, Engine advantages, T&M) and they all made the same power to whithin a few hp.

Dave BBT

KingStromba
03-06-2005, 18:14
And you let me know when you can make a turbo conversion reliable. :P

Consider yourself notified. As ive said in about 3 posts now....

Our 1.8 16V turbo Clio has had a hard life. Its covered 30k miles with Andy at the helm, driving it how its ment to be driven. So far, it has never had a problem except for a coil which failed due to old age. This car is in our daily "fleet" and we take potential customers out for test drives in this car.

Out of all the conversions we have done, we are yet to have a customer report a fault with the car that has not been caused by something else beyond our control (Nick's exhaust for example).

So, where is the sequential box? :P

Im sorry, but Nick Reads car has gone through more gearboxes than ive had hot dinners, it is ALWAYS broken.

If Nicks car is so good, why does he want to sell it to buy a Williams?

KingStromba
03-06-2005, 18:17
Your Turbo car against Mark Ritchspeeds Rally car running cams on track?

200 bhp Schooo schmenty sche scheach schmmmeeee

Dave BB
03-06-2005, 18:25
Im sorry, but Nick Reads car has gone through more gearboxes than ive had hot dinners, it is ALWAYS broken.

If Nicks car is so good, why does he want to sell it to buy a Williams?

Right, as Ive said. Nick uses his car at professional motorsport tracks and for continued 230hp standing start launches at the pod. That sort of punishment is going to kill a gearbox regardless.

I think he has actually only done one gearbox in the time that Ive known him. As ive said before and will keep saying. The problems arrise from people who mess about with things that cause other things to fail (exhaust silencer example : Insert here..... AGAIN!). Nick had a problem with his loom at one stage and the car started running on three cylinders. Despite our advice he drove it from Yarmouth to see us (crica 85 miles).... ON THREE CYLINDERS DONT FORGET, AND ON BOOST!

Once he got it to us, a simply fix and it ran like a dream again and despite all this punishment, it still didnt blow a gasket/piston etc. I wonder how long an Evo would last on 3......

Why does he want to sell it? Dont know, ask Nick.

KingStromba
03-06-2005, 18:27
5K for a bolt on hairdryer?

edde
03-06-2005, 20:43
Does the 2.0 engine make more power than the 1.8 when turboed? Just thinking is the turbo different as well on the 2.0 vs 1.8?
Also how come you use a charge cooler surely an air to air intercooler would be cheaper?
Next time a turbo valver etc comes up for sale on the cheap I'm thinking about buying it and dumping the engine in my car is that much or a challenge then sell the valver with a 2.0 tunned lump?
PS is there any other companies selling Clio turbo kits? Not having a go at you at all just interested.

PS have you looked at 172 powered Mk1 CLios as thats onother option I quite like the sounds off.

VIPERONE
03-06-2005, 23:54
DaveBB, how come you havent dabled with supercharging..?
i know of 2 to date

TwisT
04-06-2005, 00:39
but wouldnt a bolt on charger be cheaper than a turbo, the golf vr6 6psi bolt on charger is only £2000 fitted IIRC, low boost on stock engine ? could it be done for around £2000 on williams f7r?

I dont know too much about this kit so I couldnt comment but im not sure it could be £2k fitted :o

the kit is fitted by many, NSracing is closest to me [london, for a vr6 for example] the BB turbo conversion sounds great. im sure the torque is more VS the TB clio- at 5k i'd have to think seriously about it, a 2k simple bolt'on supercharger conversion however [even 6psi lowboost] i would be there tomorrow for it !

if you have any news/info on a supercharger low boost bolt on post it up, as i think *lots* of people would be interested for around 2-3k ? !

Fred
04-06-2005, 02:53
King the reason nick has got through 4 clutches and 2 gearboxes is due to the simple fact, he drives it like a cunt!!! he full throttle gear changes= not good

Dave may i ask why you think your "BB played with" ECU is better than an OMEX???

also may i invite you to a rolling road day at Power Engineering in Uxbridge, its the only one that i and many other trust, and until i see your car or K-tec's car on Power Engineering's RR, i can't trust either of your figures

AMD have gone/are about to go bump so i've heard???

KingStromba
04-06-2005, 10:54
So if you get 220 bhp from a turbo and drive fast everything will break, is that what your saying Fred?

IF so - WHAT IS THE POINT?

Fred
04-06-2005, 14:13
no everything won't break, it just depends on how you drive it

example

average "normal" driver, drives fast but doesn't heal and toe when changing down, the clutch gets a hammering, so would be lucky to see say 40K

driver 2 also drives hard, but heal + toe's when changing down, gearbox speed is matched to crank speed, clutch takes MUCH less abuse and will probably last 60K+


nowt wrong with what BB has done, their work is very good, although i would bet money their car would see more power with a stand alone ECU

also their cars aren't really "designed" for track work, i'd love to see a BBPT or K-tec car up against Leo, Yasser, Yoz, Pinky, 9 lives ohbejesus etc etc etc

straight line is all very well and good, but if you can't go round bends i'm not interested to be honnest

KingStromba
04-06-2005, 15:29
Dont think you have to heal to toe in a fwd car to be honest mate. Not like your going to lock the rears if you dont, as all the weight is on the fronts anyway in the corner.


In an F1 car or Caterham 7 maybe. A clio, i dont see the advantage.

Fred
04-06-2005, 15:59
Dont think you have to heal to toe in a fwd car to be honest mate. Not like your going to lock the rears if you dont, as all the weight is on the fronts anyway in the corner.


In an F1 car or Caterham 7 maybe. A clio, i dont see the advantage.

stresses drive train components if you don't

also weight shift becomes very severe

try going from say 70 in 4th and slowing down without using the brakes only the gears, to say 40 in 2nd, you'll see what i mean!!!!!

the nose will dip and the rear end will become light


if you're a smooth driver you'll be able to downshift without any weight shift

KingStromba
04-06-2005, 16:10
Dont think you have to heal to toe in a fwd car to be honest mate. Not like your going to lock the rears if you dont, as all the weight is on the fronts anyway in the corner.


In an F1 car or Caterham 7 maybe. A clio, i dont see the advantage.

stresses drive train components if you don't

If its on track, as far as i am concerned its a race car. If it lasts 20 laps, thats all it has to do. If you dont want to stress it, dont drive it on track.

also weight shift becomes very severe

Weight shift is related to speed of acceleration / decelertion. Ask Isaac Newton

try going from say 70 in 4th and slowing down without using the brakes only the gears, to say 40 in 2nd, you'll see what i mean!!!!!

Why would i slow down without the brakes in a race car?

the nose will dip and the rear end will become light

Again, it will do this if you brake hard enough using the brakes too. Just learn to control it, or drive more smoothly.

if you're a smooth driver you'll be able to downshift without any weight shift

If your a smooth driver, i dont see you need to heel toe in a road going clio. This isnt a super bike or a free reving rear wheel drive F1 car. Just be a little less agressive on the downshift

BenR
04-06-2005, 16:19
those who cant, say they dont need it.

its a neccesity, fwd or rwd.........learn to do it, you'll be faster and smoother and your gearbox/clutch will last twice as long.

FATBOY
04-06-2005, 16:28
:roll: zzzzzzzzzz lol once the stromba gets into one of these convos you the the thread will go at leat 5 pages minimum!!!!

KingStromba
04-06-2005, 16:28
Those who want to sound good claim they need it.

Its not exactly hard is it? Lets face it. Im sorry, but if you cant do that, youre a retard and shouldnt have a licence.

Also i dont think the clios are particularly easy to do it in, unless you change the pedal set up. Im no faster with or without it. And i have never toasted a clutch or a gearbox.

More perpetuated bollox, of people trying to sound like racing drivers, just like the coilover brigade.

Coilovers - No need in a Clio road car
Heel toe braking - No need in a clio road car

Mark_Ritchspeed
04-06-2005, 16:42
I must admit, I struggle with the pedal set-up in the Clio to h&t and I must get around to sorting the pedals out. At the moment I dont bother and I wish Renault had sorted the pedals from scratch. Its just one more job that will have to wait.

Pug got it right years ago and 205's just have perfect pedal set-ups for me.

summeh
04-06-2005, 20:34
If you fancy turboing a Clio, what about dropping a Mitsubishi 4G63T (Evo) engine in there and utilise one of the Mitsubishi fwd gearboxes that comes with an lsd.

Near enough 300bhp as standard and bomb-proof internals and will probably work out cheaper than a turbo conversion.

Or for something really different, just buy an Evo1 or 2 and transfer all the running gear over to the Clio shell. Wahey a 300bhp 4wd mk1 Clio.

Or maybe I'm just dreaming?

:roll:

That would be ****ing awesome :D

Allan
04-06-2005, 20:43
TheJesus sent me a link last night of a dimma 4wd clio cossie, would be nice :)

Fred
04-06-2005, 22:44
johnnybegood, good to see someone with some sense

KingStromba
05-06-2005, 10:23
All i can say is Fred, you must have strange shaped feet if you can do that effectively in a Clio, or maybe your just not doing it right?

BenR
05-06-2005, 16:24
lol, we do have joints in our legs and feet.......

KingStromba
05-06-2005, 16:26
How do you physically put the outside of your foot on the accelerator when the brake pedal is depressed hard on a clio. I cant, and i have wide feet. Marks 2's must have a better pedal set up, thats all i can say.

BenR
05-06-2005, 16:29
Shall i take a pic of the position nxt time i'm in the car?

KingStromba
05-06-2005, 16:31
I tell you what, take a video of you effectively heel toeing in a mark 1 clio. (ie very hard braking with agressive downshifts).

Bet you cant.

BenR
05-06-2005, 16:37
money?

Mark_Ritchspeed
05-06-2005, 16:52
It can be done, its just I find it difficult in the Clio, so dont bother. Its only a case of sorting out the throttle pedal, which is a job for another day.

BenR
05-06-2005, 16:53
shhhh, i need some cash!

KingStromba
05-06-2005, 16:54
I really cant reach both pedals with my foot unless i wear wide shoes. But i normally drive with no shoes, so many be it doesnt help.

lagerlout1
05-06-2005, 16:54
I struggle if I'm braking really hard - the pedal trevels too far. I have to say since i've learned to do it, it do it nearly all the time.

Strombas opinion smacks of someone who can't do it or has never done it sucessfully. I can't do it perfect everytime, but when you get it rght, it makes perfect sense.

And the guy who took me on a few hot laps in a Caterham around Silverstone who's been racing 40 years reckoned they should teach people to do it. He was 63 and ****ing fast. lol.

KingStromba
05-06-2005, 16:56
LOL, yeah sure, like its really hard.

KingStromba
05-06-2005, 16:58
I struggle if I'm braking really hard - the pedal trevels too far. I have to say since i've learned to do it, it do it nearly all the time.

Strombas opinion smacks of someone who can't do it or has never done it sucessfully. I can't do it perfect everytime, but when you get it rght, it makes perfect sense.

And the guy who took me on a few hot laps in a Caterham around Silverstone who's been racing 40 years reckoned they should teach people to do it. He was 63 and ****ing fast. lol.


Like i said if i had a caterham im sure id want to do it all the time if i was on track. I also think if you travelling fast enough to need this (heel toeing) on the road, your travelling too fast.

BenR
05-06-2005, 16:59
surely you shouldnt have a williams then? :lol:

Mark_Ritchspeed
05-06-2005, 16:59
If you h+t though its just a natural thing to do no matter what the speed. When driving a 205 I do it even when im cruising along.

KingStromba
05-06-2005, 17:00
Like i said before, i dont race on the roads, ive grown out of it.

lagerlout1
05-06-2005, 17:00
If you h+t though its just a natural thing to do no matter what the speed. When driving a 205 I do it even when im cruising along.

EXACTLY. 8) :D

KingStromba
05-06-2005, 17:07
Lets just get one thing straight.

Im not saying its not effective (in the right car in the right condition)

What i am saying is:

The mark 1 clio is difficult to do it in, so difficult it makes it easiy not too

Doubt you really need it in a FWD car, im no faster with it, pissing around with two pedals

Certainly shouldnt be going fast enough to need it in road situation

Would need it on a powerful bike, rwd light car

I dont drive fast enough on road to use it

If you can do it fair enough, but just because some use it doesnt mean its quicker (rubens barrachello cant left foot brake as fast as he can traditionally brake, doesnt mean hes a crap driver, just what he prefers)

lagerlout1
05-06-2005, 17:12
I do it out of mechanical sympathy. Not to be fast. Fast for me is 70mph. lol.

KingStromba
05-06-2005, 17:19
Mechanical sympathy schmecanical shcmemympathy. Clutch was unworn after 140,000 miles as verified by nick hill

BenR
05-06-2005, 17:21
sorry dad :D

Purple
05-06-2005, 17:27
Would appreciate if someone who H&Ts on the Williams, please post some pictures of your pedal positions and your normal sitting position.

I find it impossible to H&T on standard pedals/steering/seat postion as my foot is quite tight against the pedals leaving me no room to angle the foot for H&T. My arms are already quite extended over the steering, so I can't push the seat further back. I blip the throttle when I need to fast downchange but that won't be as smooth as H&T. Just wanna know how you guys do it.

Thanks.

BenR
05-06-2005, 17:37
i only have std pedals

if you have wide feet, use the side of your foot, if you have narrow feet, use your heel.

KingStromba
05-06-2005, 19:07
Must be my 6ft 1 frame, but i cant get my feet across, i sit with my legs pointing out of the seat as it is.

BenR
05-06-2005, 19:11
you do the splits inside the car!!!!

KingStromba
05-06-2005, 19:12
Pretty much. I have very long legs

BenR
05-06-2005, 19:16
sexy image just popped up :(

Purple
06-06-2005, 03:10
if you have wide feet, use the side of your foot, if you have narrow feet, use your heel.

Have quite small feet, so pretty much have to swivel on the heel to keep engine on the boil (which can get a bit clumsy sometimes). It's just not possible to twist my ankle to get into H&T position (so much so, I had given up on being able to H&T on the Williams until I see you guys talking about it). Am fairly regular built (5' 9") and don't have as bad a problem with H&T on other cars. Do you guys re-work your pedal position or steering extensions or something? Mind you, it's not a big deficit on the Williams as, with its meaty low-end torque, the engine is almost always in the power band.

2 live
06-06-2005, 11:39
i find the best/quickest way to drive it is non h&t and jus give it fukkin death..........





works for me :lol:

KingStromba
06-06-2005, 11:41
You change gear incredibly quickly jon, from watching your vids. Sure you even use the clutch? :wink:

2 live
06-06-2005, 11:44
clutch????????

ballcrusher
08-06-2005, 13:30
you lot on here talk so much boll*x you allways first to put people or companys down cose ya to f*CKING TIGHT to pay and want thing done cheep going on about how much it costs what people dont understand is how much time goes developing theese conversion


ps king stromber ya full of sh*t

KingStromba
08-06-2005, 13:34
We are entitled to express an opinion on here just as you are. Personally i would rather buy a delta integrale than buy a turbo conversion for the Williams. That way for 5k, you have a whole car to go with the turbo, that was deisgned to run a turbo, and benefits from said turbo.


Hmm, for some reason i have just had an urge to remeber to put out the dustbins. :roll:

How an opinion be full of shite exactly? As an opinion is based on an abstract thought process, as is in no way related to the physical world, it would be hard for such an entity to actually contain anything. Unless of course the shite was also abstract, but you dont make this clear in your verbose and uneloquent post. Maybe in future you could speak with a little more eruditness, so that i understand the insult you are trying to convey? Innit

J o n
08-06-2005, 13:42
Ballcrusher, I think you will find that most of us on here are pretty open minded as regards tuning, but would you send your car to any old place or would you want to know every in and out first? For that kind of money i like to know what is involved, I spend a lot of money on my car in terms of keeping it on the road and modding. Most people pay on a new hot hatch than I have spent in a year. A turbo conversion is something i find fascinating, but not something I would consider and not for being a cheapskate, as my bills prove otherwise. I'm happy taking my car to Ben and Andy to work on, some on here aint and constantly slag them off and make remarks, but it's an internet forum and most of it is said in jest so I dont let it get to me. Like Rob says, we are entitled to an opinion although I will admit we could be a bit less Northern when putting the view accross... lol

ballcrusher
08-06-2005, 13:43
like the pics you use in ya profile ya spam

Andyvalver
08-06-2005, 13:44
5k is a lot for a turbo convertion when ya car is only worth 3k. You could go 200mph on a bike for 5k!

J o n
08-06-2005, 13:47
well i like more power, but the fact that Clean16v's throttle bodied hybrid makes nigh on 220bhp and is capable of sticking with a tuned RX7 and quicker than a 300bhp tuned TT (with even more torque!) it would have to be something special... i'm biased though, as I love NA and despise turbo lag... no wonder turbo's feel so ****in' quick, waiting 10 seconds before the boost comes in again

KingStromba
08-06-2005, 13:50
Mr Ballcrusher, I think that little outburst has confirmed what some of us thought about you from the pics we have seen from your car.

Perhaps you may want to make this your next purchase?

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y240/King_Stromba/ax_0949.jpg

J o n
08-06-2005, 13:51
now now guys, play nice :roll:

KingStromba
08-06-2005, 13:51
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y240/King_Stromba/dustbin.jpg

KingStromba
08-06-2005, 13:53
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y240/King_Stromba/jdo0597l.jpg

KingStromba
08-06-2005, 13:55
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y240/King_Stromba/jimhhalfordssaxo2.jpg

ballcrusher
11-06-2005, 14:51
stromba for ya info exhaustsuk.com made em for me at ASCAR in sheffield and you no you like ya just trying to cover it up cose deep down u wished u had something to get attention and yes two 8" STICKING OUT THE BACK maybe not to everybodys tast but i like the attention good or bad what av you got to pull the crowds

VIPERONE
11-06-2005, 15:04
ballcrusher just had his car taken away!!!!!!!!!!!












http://www.guildford.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/F2B49128-02E0-415C-A476-ECA9FCDF9E7B/0/refuse02.jpg

KingStromba
11-06-2005, 15:08
stromba for ya info exhaustsuk.com made em for me at ASCAR in sheffield and you no you like ya just trying to cover it up cose deep down u wished u had something to get attention and yes two 8" STICKING OUT THE BACK maybe not to everybodys tast but i like the attention good or bad what av you got to pull the crowds


So your an attention seeking whore then?

Mark_Ritchspeed
11-06-2005, 15:12
stromba for ya info exhaustsuk.com made em for me at ASCAR in sheffield and you no you like ya just trying to cover it up cose deep down u wished u had something to get attention and yes two 8" STICKING OUT THE BACK maybe not to everybodys tast but i like the attention good or bad what av you got to pull the crowds

Huh? WTF are you trying to say?

About the only bit I understand is that you have 2x 8" tailpipes on the back of your car. Have you got any pics so we can have a laugh?

KingStromba
11-06-2005, 15:19
Someone post the power sapping exhausts for Mark?

Mark_Ritchspeed
11-06-2005, 15:22
Are they the same sort of monstrosities that were on show at FCS? I dont think the bloke appreciated me and my mate laughing at them. :twisted:

KingStromba
11-06-2005, 15:35
http://www.williamsclio.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9799&sid=95fd2f77134c21f12dcc155983eb527c

Mark_Ritchspeed
11-06-2005, 15:49
Cant see any exhausts??? Just the front end. :roll:

ballcrusher
11-06-2005, 15:50
stromba you love it

Enid
11-06-2005, 15:52
Are they the same sort of monstrosities that were on show at FCS? I dont think the bloke appreciated me and my mate laughing at them. :twisted:

Why not laugh at them? He likes the reaction they get apparently, so that makes him fair game for a bit of piss taking too!

Mark_Ritchspeed
11-06-2005, 15:55
There was a stand with stacks of very large exhausts on display. They even had a Saxo one with 4 very large pipes on that looked, um. Well, this was my face anyway:shock:
Was that exhaustsuk then?

ballcrusher
11-06-2005, 15:58
ive got so much stick over the years it makes me lough that people carry on but each to there own i like em some people dont who cares there only cars at the end of the day

Mark_Ritchspeed
11-06-2005, 16:00
But I still want to see them, please.

Are they either side of the car or is it like a twinpipe exit?

Enid
11-06-2005, 16:00
ive got so much stick over the years it makes me lough that people carry on but each to there own i like em some people dont who cares there only cars at the end of the day

Fair enough. Must get annoyed with all the Badgers nesting in them though :lol:

ballcrusher
11-06-2005, 16:05
one cat but he moved out quickly LOL

KingStromba
11-06-2005, 16:09
Put a pic up ballcrusher

ballcrusher
11-06-2005, 16:11
pm me an email cose me dont no how and i'll send em to ya so you can post

KingStromba
11-06-2005, 16:12
8)

KingStromba
11-06-2005, 16:26
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y240/King_Stromba/000_03041.jpg

KingStromba
11-06-2005, 16:28
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y240/King_Stromba/Ballcrush1.jpg

Mark_Ritchspeed
11-06-2005, 16:29
:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

Must admit, side on picture looks well smart though.

KingStromba
11-06-2005, 16:30
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y240/King_Stromba/VBallcrish2.jpg

KingStromba
11-06-2005, 16:30
Theres no denying its well looked after, just a shame you had to ruin a classic with shit exhausts

Martin
11-06-2005, 16:42
lol..true!

ballcrusher
11-06-2005, 16:54
like i said guys its only a car and yes i like winding people up but at the end of the day each to there own

summeh
11-06-2005, 17:17
lol each to their own I say... btw you're missing a silver rim on those prima's (?)

Zollo
11-06-2005, 17:18
Honestly, they look even bigger in the metal :shock:

Really clean and tidy car though, and very impressive, if a little over-exuberant on the gas-departure orifice department :wink: . You got any pics of the engine bay, that was pretty damn clean too?

Cheers for doing the steering column on me car by the way Jim. (I came up in a Willy 2 at the same time as Raj). Loads better. :D

ballcrusher
11-06-2005, 17:33
im getting the rims refurbed so the edges will be done and im gonna get some pics up just need to no how or i can send em to stromba and he can put em up if ya dont mind fella

how ya doing fella im glade ya stearing sorted yours was BAD

Zollo
11-06-2005, 17:44
Good ta. Yeah, that was a shit load of weld you used. Sorted it though!

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