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KingStromba
27-05-2005, 22:54
Will it be the new Williams?

or Are those people who are buying it just hoping it will be?

Vote now

Martin
27-05-2005, 23:00
Could have been worthy with 200 bhp 2.2, unique wheels etc etc... but it's just another gimmick imo.

Miss Metallic
27-05-2005, 23:06
I don't see the point of it myself..

I don't like the wheels, it's no better than a normal 182, and I don't like the colour much.

If they'd upped the power it might have been worth it.

Rich
27-05-2005, 23:19
nah just another one imo

MrAtego
28-05-2005, 00:29
Nearest thing to a Williams the MK 2 can get to is the 172 Cup, similar to the Williams in that it was built for Homologation purposes

J o n
28-05-2005, 01:20
bit of a no brainer really... if the V6 cant hold a decent resale I dont see what a mass produced less desirable car will do really... well, apart from depreciate in the usual manner.

KingStromba
28-05-2005, 07:27
Nearest thing to a Williams the MK 2 can get to is the 172 Cup, similar to the Williams in that it was built for Homologation purposes

No it wasnt :D

Enid
28-05-2005, 10:10
No way will it be a new williams. I t doesn't have the motorsport heritage of the Williams which is what makes it so speacial. None the less I think the new 182 trophy looks quite smart.

seb182
28-05-2005, 10:33
i think it looks good but what is the point????

it's not really a lot different from a normal 182.. different seats... wheels.... sus... colour.... oh yeah and i forgot the trophy sticker on the side skirts!

clearly not worth buying over a normal 182 cos your just being held to ransom.

BenR
28-05-2005, 10:45
Just like the williams it has concentrated on chassis improvements, and there is a long list.

Give it a chance before you all condem it, i think it'll be quite fun to drive and the amount of effort they have gone to.........i like it.

2 live
28-05-2005, 11:08
another sales gimmic to try and get rid of all the unsold clios theyv got

and i never knew the cup was built for homolgomation purposes......what was it to be homolgomated for?? i mean the clio cup series was already under way, the super 1600s are on the ralying scene, which are nothing like the cups......errrrrrrr leaves not a lot else for homolgomation.

Zollo
28-05-2005, 11:59
I reckon it'll be a great car like the 182 is and will probably be known as the best hot hatch of the moment. I wouldn't be surprised to see the car getting great acclaim for its abilities, particularly its damping.

But I don't think Renault have done enough over the standard 182 for it to build any particular prominence in the car world. Compared to the Williams, it'll be forgotten model before too long.

It's difficult to comment on resale values, as it'll take a good 5 years before you see how a car really deals with depreciation. The V6's value will be very strong in about 10 years time I reckon...

Of course, I could be talking out of my arse :wink:

KingStromba
28-05-2005, 12:06
another sales gimmic to try and get rid of all the unsold clios theyv got

and i never knew the cup was built for homolgomation purposes......what was it to be homolgomated for?? i mean the clio cup series was already under way, the super 1600s are on the ralying scene, which are nothing like the cups......errrrrrrr leaves not a lot else for homolgomation.


Jon, it wasnt a homologation car. Its an erroneous fact that is perpetuated on Cliosport. There is no FIA certificate of homolagation. Unlike the Williams one i have a copy of in my documents folder. :D

lagerlout1
28-05-2005, 13:45
I hate to piss on your parade guy's, but this car has had a LOT of development gone into the chassis rework. Several racing drivers, including Mssr Ragnotti, were involved in the development. It'll go like stink and outhandle just about anything thats FWD. It might not be a homo mobile like your cars, but it's fast, it's rare and I think it looks good.

Agree with you on the value though.... it will lose money just above a normal 182 to start with.... but it will stay at a certain level eventually like the williams.

J o n
28-05-2005, 14:02
I hate to piss on your parade guy's, but this car has had a LOT of development gone into the chassis rework. Several racing drivers, including Mssr Ragnotti, were involved in the development. It'll go like stink and outhandle just about anything thats FWD. It might not be a homo mobile like your cars, but it's fast, it's rare and I think it looks good.

Agree with you on the value though.... it will lose money just above a normal 182 to start with.... but it will stay at a certain level eventually like the williams.

pah, my 11 year old dinosaur will still out handle and outpace it without breaking a sweat... pretty irrelevant anyway, we're hardly likely to go from a Williams to a 182/92/02/12 whatever variant they bring out next... they are all 2.0 litre and as the power goes up so does weight... therefore they will never be an improvement over the original and best... basically from a logical point of view they will continue to struggle to keep up let alone beat previous versions as laws and restrictions get stricter and being mass produced and cheap means shortcuts will be taken... hence rattling interior and bits falling off... not saying the Williams doesn't suffer from this as well, as a lot do so I hear... mine has been a mechanical nightmare, but in terms of rattles etc I can honestly say it has none... I have recorded witness statements to back up this monumental claim too! :lol:

KingStromba
28-05-2005, 14:21
I hate to piss on your parade guy's, but this car has had a LOT of development gone into the chassis rework. Several racing drivers, including Mssr Ragnotti, were involved in the development. It'll go like stink and outhandle just about anything thats FWD. It might not be a homo mobile like your cars, but it's fast, it's rare and I think it looks good.

Agree with you on the value though.... it will lose money just above a normal 182 to start with.... but it will stay at a certain level eventually like the williams.

It has lighter wheels (1.3kg's per corner less unsprung weight) and resevoir dampers. To be a Williams i feel it would need.

A garish notice it anywhere paint job (like the Williams)
To have a racing pedigree (homologation car to prove itself in competition)
2.2 litre enginre kicking out more bhp and torque than normal 182
Be 20K to stop young / chavvy people buying it
Have wider arches to distiguish it from the crowd


Lets face facts, Renault probably lost money on the Williams 1 Homologation cars often do). Such was their goal to produce a rally car in so few numbers. They probably only made money on the 2's and 3's

richy
28-05-2005, 15:51
it may end up being a better car and better performace or whatever then normal 182 but the thing that makes it just seem like 'another' 182 is the fact the amount of models out, not just a 182 then a trophy model with bigger engine etc, u got mk1 172,mk1 172 exclusive, mk2 172, 172 cup, 182, 182 cup, 182(cup options), and 182 trophy!

not saying it wont be good cus it has to be in order to warrent its name etc but just seems like theres so many different versions of the same car!

BenR
28-05-2005, 19:25
it does go one better though, only being 500 of them.......unless the trophy 2 and 3 come out :lol:

2 live
28-05-2005, 22:05
lol....like there were only 400 williams'.............til the 2s n 3s came out......i can still remember the furore of some of the original willy 1 purchasers

LotuzClioWilliams
28-05-2005, 23:42
I wonder if there was a "King Stromba" back in the early Nineties who was a 5 GTT fanatic and hated every Clio 16v and Williams. "They don't even have a turbo! And heavy too!! How fast can they be then?!?" http://www.renault-tuning.com/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif

BenR
29-05-2005, 00:44
more than likely, but on a much older type of steroid :wink:

Purple
29-05-2005, 03:08
IMO, when the 400 Williams1 first came out, it had already built up a good fanbase with the 1.8L 16v Clios. Thus, with better handling and stronger engine, the Williams1 instant success was virtually guaranteed. But, in the case of the Trophy, though it seem to have better handling(on paper, so far) than previous 2L Clio-Mk2, having the same engine output may not be enough to convince existing owners to upgrade. I am keen for a proper comparo between the Trophy and previous 172/182/Cup to see if the Trophy's overall package justifies its exclusivity and status.

BenR
29-05-2005, 03:56
well i think people are just far too sceptical nowadays rather than just enoying.

Its bound to be better in certain aspects.......i dont know how people are going to deny the development process it has been through, even if its only a small amount. Component quality alone is better.

As for power......they cant increase capacity like the willy, and they the cost of passing a new engine spec through the processes required for them to be able to sell it, and meet EURO emissions compliance with the same engine and more power isnt really going to happen, not for 500 cars.

Purple
29-05-2005, 04:33
With only published data available, there's nothing much to like or hate at this point about the Trophy (except for the aesthetics but, IMHO, that's missing the whole point of a focussed driving machine). But being the last of the 2L Clio Mk2s, I should think (and hope) the handling tweaks should be something special.

ian 182
29-05-2005, 14:11
EVO will test it against the old one around bedford with some other marqes and it will be qicker there imho.After that it will loose money,it will rattle like every renault and it will be fast.Im glad to hear some input from the ragnotti dept,but he is old so we'll see.

The colour is not my cup of tea but it will stand out and the fact there is only 4-500 of them will make them rarer than a willy,but not as exclusive if you know what i mean.

The main thing is that they are doing it in the first place.I love new cars,the fact that there are now about 8 models of clio that are all as fast and some faster than the willy is good for progress.The willy is still great but forget money and symbolism and residuals.The willy is not in a field of its own anymore.

ian

MrAtego
29-05-2005, 23:39
Nearest thing to a Williams the MK 2 can get to is the 172 Cup, similar to the Williams in that it was built for Homologation purposes

No it wasnt :D

Who gives a flying fcuk anyway :P

lagerlout1
30-05-2005, 08:03
I hate to piss on your parade guy's, but this car has had a LOT of development gone into the chassis rework. Several racing drivers, including Mssr Ragnotti, were involved in the development. It'll go like stink and outhandle just about anything thats FWD. It might not be a homo mobile like your cars, but it's fast, it's rare and I think it looks good.

Agree with you on the value though.... it will lose money just above a normal 182 to start with.... but it will stay at a certain level eventually like the williams.

pah, my 11 year old dinosaur will still out handle and outpace it without breaking a sweat... pretty irrelevant anyway, we're hardly likely to go from a Williams to a 182/92/02/12 whatever variant they bring out next... they are all 2.0 litre and as the power goes up so does weight... therefore they will never be an improvement over the original and best... basically from a logical point of view they will continue to struggle to keep up let alone beat previous versions as laws and restrictions get stricter and being mass produced and cheap means shortcuts will be taken... hence rattling interior and bits falling off... not saying the Williams doesn't suffer from this as well, as a lot do so I hear... mine has been a mechanical nightmare, but in terms of rattles etc I can honestly say it has none... I have recorded witness statements to back up this monumental claim too! :lol:

Of course yours will beat it. It's still classed as standard isn't it...? :roll: :wink:
My interior doesn't rattle. At least I don't think it does. What with the exhaust rattling and the engine mounts banging and the suspension struts knocking, I wouldn't hear the rattles anyway.

KingStromba
30-05-2005, 11:25
Even if the 182 beat me to my destination, my car would still look better when it eventually got there :D

J o n
30-05-2005, 14:29
LOL @ largerlout, of course my car is standard... :lol: okay it's not, but as standard it should fare well, it's on 25k. Northy's bro Andy has a low mile minter and thats fast as ****. I'd put money on it being at least as quick as any run in 1*2 variant. A lot of the Willy's perceived poor performance is due to neglect. If you put two up against each other you'll see that there has been no progression... apart from longer 2nd gear to make the 0-60 look good... but we all know a standard willy can hit 60 in under 7 seconds with 2 changes... as proven. I think this will be a great drivers car still, but it's not gonna be a Williams or even close.

ian 182
30-05-2005, 14:54
I think it will be quicker and out handle any standard williams

ian

Mark_Ritchspeed
30-05-2005, 15:11
It really should be quicker, no question. As to wether it will outhandle a Willy, I would be surprised. Outgrip a Willy maybe, but on-limit handling is another matter altogether and an area where the current Clios are some way behind.

J o n
30-05-2005, 17:20
I think it will be quicker and out handle any standard williams

ian

dont see why it would, most low mile willy's seem to be able to 1/4 mile faster than 172 & 182's... handling is also subjective, i cant drive well enough to really say... but having brand new suspension you can certainly feel it over uneven roads and most of em will be fooked or just tired.

lagerlout1
30-05-2005, 19:10
LOL @ largerlout, of course my car is standard... :lol: okay it's not, but as standard it should fare well, it's on 25k. Northy's bro Andy has a low mile minter and thats fast as f*ck. I'd put money on it being at least as quick as any run in 1*2 variant. A lot of the Willy's perceived poor performance is due to neglect. If you put two up against each other you'll see that there has been no progression... apart from longer 2nd gear to make the 0-60 look good... but we all know a standard willy can hit 60 in under 7 seconds with 2 changes... as proven. I think this will be a great drivers car still, but it's not gonna be a Williams or even close.

I don't think Willys are slow..... I know they're quick as standard. I have no doubt that a good Williams will be on par with a 1*2 in a straight line...... unless it's Stromba and his 5k gear changes..lol. :lol:

J o n
30-05-2005, 19:23
yeah Rob and his 5k changes... get those valves opened up lad!

engine modding is the future, standard cars are just not quick enough anyway as I found out after meeting the NW lot the first time lol

FATBOY
30-05-2005, 19:25
5 k changes???? my ass! he was caning it from the hotel to the texaco garage!

big hp
30-05-2005, 19:37
Certainly seemed more than 5k changes to me. Strombas seen the light.

FATBOY
30-05-2005, 19:38
yes mate! didnt think you was gonna make it in before freds??? green wheeled mark 2 at that roundabout junction! but you just managed to squeeze in behind me!