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Coops
08-07-2007, 21:58
I have a blue smoke on idle issue, its smokes like a good un but only sometimes and not immediatly. whilst driving its fine, or clean enough not to see anything in wingmirrors etc, but stop at the lights and its plain embaressing!

engine has just been rebuilt with new pistons, so its possible i've fubared up somewhere there and the rings havent bedded in, but its done 200 miles now so i'd expect them to of sealed by now?

but been reading round and seems it could be turbo itself? i've checks oil feed and drain and both seem fine, so the units gettin oil, but its a bit noisey on idle, makes a ticking sound similar to the injectors?!

either way i'm just looking for some advice, whats the best way to check piston rings? and will it be okay to do whatever check is necessary on the engine now with only 200 miles on it since new pistons etc? how can i get the turbo checked aswell if its not the rings?

any help much appreciated!

cheers

Coops

MAXIBOY
08-07-2007, 22:02
compression check or leak down for rings. could it be valve stems.

stan
08-07-2007, 22:14
as maxi says, leak down test will be your best bet.

what were the ring end gaps like?

the ticking, is this mainly when its cold? dont forget forged pistons are generally noised than std when not fully hot.

Coops
08-07-2007, 22:15
nah, its not the pistons, its when warm and the noise is definatly coming from the turbo itself, not the injectors/tappets or b/e.

wtf is a leak down test and how?

ring gaps? was i supposed to check them before fitting the pistons? bores were within tolerance for std bore rings according to guy who honed the block?

stan
08-07-2007, 22:22
rule number one when building an engine....never assume something is machined correctly, always check yourself. the ring end gaps and bore clearances should really have been checked.

how did u run it in?

leak down test pressurises the cylinder and measures leakage by comparing pressure held compared to pressure entering. a local garage may have one? i have one but your a bit far away! failing that, a basic compression test will give you a less conclusive idea if there may be a fault.

MAXIBOY
08-07-2007, 22:29
as above. stan knows his shit.

Daz.
08-07-2007, 22:39
Just burn the mofo :twisted: :twisted:

Coops
08-07-2007, 22:41
rule number 2 of engine building, i have no clue, so when i asked on the forums how to fit pistons noone mentioned checkin clearances! i was told to 'slap em in' so i did! :lol:

i'll check over the road for leak down thingie, failing that i'll do a basic check n see on the drive.

only covered 200 miles upto now, run in method has basically been after 1st start i let it idle to op temp, then left it to bleed cooling system for 20 mins or so.

was then left for few days as i finished piecing bodywork etc back together. actual driving so far has consisted of keeping below 4.5krpm on every gear and plenty of engine breaking

oh and thanks Daz, way to make a guy feel good

Daz.
09-07-2007, 17:42
Nah no-one has a sense of humor anymore :x

white16valver
09-07-2007, 19:28
smoke on idle could well be turbo - if you've got the cash you can send it away to TurboTechnics or similar to be looked at and have the seals replaced :)

DaveH
09-07-2007, 20:17
Get the cylinder leak test done first to make sure nothings going on with the engine itself then look at the turbo because as you say its not smoking at all times. The last thing you want is a dodgy turbo sucking itself into the inlet after all that money you spent on the lump itself.

Coops
10-07-2007, 22:18
lol, sorry Daz, was pissed off with it all other night so sense of humor was on the sideline, back on the pitch again now! :wink:

ai, plan is to mother it to FCS, get her home and then comp test it, and go from there!

cliokiz
10-07-2007, 22:26
You can convoy with me then if you want Coops as i'll be doing the same, mine's smoking as well :lol:

Daz.
10-07-2007, 22:27
Do clio's have periods? mine feels like a sack of shit at the moment :evil:

Coops
10-07-2007, 22:29
must be lah! every month there a new side of the damn things to enjoy!

kiz mate, am headin down with richy bout 6am i think from this end, not sure what time we pass you, or even how far it is all together! :lol:

Crossers
10-07-2007, 23:18
Seen this on a 21 turbo. The turbo was fooked mate, exact same symtoms as you.

Fraid i'd be taking the turbo off and getting it kooked at.

Paul

mays
10-07-2007, 23:48
yep i totally have to agree witht he last comment... A friend of mine has a glanza v turbo and up to last week he was running a fooked turbo.... wa totally fine on throttle .... not smoking at all.. but at the lights it was a joke ... if the smoke ya cars producing is pretty much a strong blue then it sorta narrows it down... and after re building the engine... im pretty sure that if you have done it correctly then its ur turbo....

ive recently completed building my williams turbo and im running a t28.... one of the first things i did was have it reconditioned completely.. cost me an arm and a leg but im sure it will be worth it for the hasstle of removing it again....

hope ya get it sorted mate...

good luck

danny

bass_direct
11-07-2007, 06:43
the noise you might be hearing could well be the shaft on the turbo hitting the housing.. check for play in the shaft..

my guess for the smoke is your oil seals, as mentioned above ring up a few turbo companies and get a quote on replacing the seals..

pm'd

cliokiz
11-07-2007, 10:01
kiz mate, am headin down with richy bout 6am i think from this end, not sure what time we pass you, or even how far it is all together! :lol:

Aaron (ronsvalver) said you were meeting him at J26 services? If so he's meeting me at the Leics services a few junctions further down so we can limp the rest of the way together lol :lol:

Coops
11-07-2007, 19:52
:lol:

nah think aaron says he's campin over now, so its just me n richy, pic a services before junction 19 (a14) and we'll stop off for ya!

schakal
11-07-2007, 19:58
oooh ,break down trucks will be busy this weekend :P

lewis_willy2
13-07-2007, 21:22
bloody turbos.

mines well smokey!! but not fitted yet and i do plan to rebuild it, was just gonna buy a rebuild kit and do it myself. anyone no how hard it is.

if it aint too hard coops give it a go, just rebuilt an engine so rebuilding a turbo cant be too bad?

if not how much is it to get a proper company to rebuild a turbo?

Coops
14-07-2007, 00:13
not a clue mate, am still undecided as to whats the cause neway, investigations to begin after FCS fully

did dry comp test and got 135psi for cylinders 1 3 and 4 and 2 came back at 145psi, which isnt great, so wet test after FCS

am chucking some really cheap low grade mineral oil in there tomos n all for trip to FCS n back, see if i can salvage the rings and get them to bed

stan
14-07-2007, 09:31
what did the bloke use to hone the bores?

as soon as you mentioned "mobile" i kinda cringed :?

Clio_GTT
14-07-2007, 09:41
what did the bloke use to hone the bores?

as soon as you mentioned "mobile" i kinda cringed :?

probably a rasp :lol:

MAXIBOY
14-07-2007, 11:29
think it was a honing tool in a drill

Coops
14-07-2007, 12:44
ai, drill tool, clamped to the top of the block

stan
14-07-2007, 13:30
literally a hand drill?

it really depends how the bores measured up innitially. If they were bad...i.e out-of-round, then they arent going to be cured by a hone...no matter if its mobile or in a proper machine shop. however, it wasnt burning oil like this before Im assuming, so unless youve royally ****ed up fitting the rings ( :D ), or he has ROYALLY ****ed the bores, i wouldnt think its a bore sealing issue. how did you run it in?

as for the compression test well...it does have low Cr pistons, so naturally the cranking pressure is going to be lower....how much lower I couldnt say. maybe if Maxiboy was kind enough to test his, so we have kind of a base figure compare against...at least then you can say either yes its significantly lower, or no they are similar.

I would also get your turbo checked....but as with rings/bores, it wasnt doing this before, and simply removing it and storing it for a short period wouldnt induce these problems....i wouldnt have thought at least. worth checking in any case.

a wet test will always give higher readings....post them up though as it may point in the right direction.

MAXIBOY
14-07-2007, 14:07
i,ll test mine if that helps mate.

Coops
14-07-2007, 14:34
okay thanks craig matey

running in is still going on and today i changed the oil from 15 40 semi to 20 50 mineral, and it seems that for the quick run after the change the smoking isnt as bad, but this could just be placebo, i will know for sure after run to FCS and back

the tool the guy used was a rig that clamped to the bock, perpendicular to the gasket face, the a power drill attached to a floating type bearing on the top, so the part that flies out to hone the bores does so with no effect from angle of the drill if u get me? its generally used on lorry engines etc but is capable right down to 1.0 litre!

as u mention, it was not smoking before, and literally all i've done is swap the rings and pistons, the turbo had not been touched atall, not even taken out ti was just slid back and returned when head went back on.

when i put the rings in i ensured piston arrows faced correct way and all stamp marks on the rings themselves were upwards and each ring fitted to correct trough in the piston, and that the oil control ring (3 parts) was arranged correctly up untill i last saw it disappear down the bore!used plenty of rebuild lubricant throughout and didnt hit and obvious problems. oh and the block was thoroughly cleaned several times before anything else after the hone.

next day or so will tell, i will run to FCS and back, about 200 miles, and see. if it still smokes i will wet test it and hopefully by then neil will of posted results also to compare to

thanks again

Coops

lewis_willy2
14-07-2007, 18:38
im shitting my pants now guys :?

i used a drill attatchment honing tool. only ran it up and down the bores a few times to clean the bores, and my piston and bore clearances are in tolerance, i hope this doesnt happen to me.

but like you say coops, it werent doing it before the rebuild. hope it aint too big a problem pal, fingers crossed for ya

Clio_GTT
14-07-2007, 20:20
Are you sure it's not the turbo that's smoking mate, hybrids are usualy fragile pieces of shit, mate ash had a GT28 hyrbid turbo go after a week

cliokiz
14-07-2007, 21:50
:lol:

nah think aaron says he's campin over now, so its just me n richy, pic a services before junction 19 (a14) and we'll stop off for ya!

Aaron said he's driving down tomorrow and he is meeting me at Leicester Forest East Services (i think near J21) at 6am, so if you fancy stopping off there will be quite a few of us meeting there :P

Smudger
15-07-2007, 12:12
Coops what i can tell from what you have said is that it may well be the turbo

what you have about the noisey turbing, smoke when letting off/idle and how now you have change to a thiking grade oil the smoke seems to have reduce slightly (possibly) its is all the symptoms of a wearing turbo unit