View Full Version : Very low idle +cutting out / Sudden Lack of power!
Right, was just driving along and suddenly at the traffic lights the car starts chugging worse than usual, with the idle at around 500, so i blip the throttle and go.. I'm at a steady 3k revs then I lose all power and the revs drop right down to 500 again while i'm still moving and while my foot is down to the floor!!
Then power was restored and it shot off, but it kept doing the same! :roll: So I pulled up and switched the engine off to check everything was tight which it was..
Then when I go to start the car, i turn the key and all I could hear was the fuel pump but no starter! The starter has been on/off the last few days so i'm not sure whether it's sticking or what??
Get it started by bumping it and it continues to keep giving me power then taking it away and all of a sudden acts perfectly half way through the journey!??
When I get home the starter motor is ok too, plus sometimes when the car is off and the keys are out some of the lights remain partially illuminated?
Could all this be connected? I did all my earths the other day too, but what's the earth for that's on the front of the box (near the front bumper) as if that got wet could it cause issues as the rain was quite bad?
Here's a video of it's issues, note that my foot was in the same position on the accelerator!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6YLXE7d4sU
Tigeryang
09-05-2007, 22:21
my williams has done that for a couple of years, it only seems to do it when the weathers damp and wet. i hear your wipers goin so it could be the same as me, ive tried changing the icv etc but no joy, i just put up with it
sounds like an electrical earth fault. maybe a dodgy ignition barrel. but i,d guess bad earth or wiring loam fault. disconnect battery and check everything. then reconnect and start checking with a multi meter.
Amit we'll have to have a look at that when you're next free! I should be available next weekend if you're about? Can't do this weekend as we're moving house!!
We'll have to whip off all the earths and clean them up and clean some stuff up see if it makes a difference! You've had idling problems for a while now, sounds like something is getting progressively worse..
At least yours runs through, i had to call out the RAC twice today, the hybrid gave up on me! First time i couldn't get it in to gear, second time the bolts snapped holding on the decat pipe to the downpipe, so i was stuck on the hard shoulder of the motorway! LOL!
Hmm, well it's only just done this and incidentally it was pissing it down! My lambda is a bosch universal so if any of the wires down there got wet would it cause those symptoms?
I cleaned all the earths the other week.. 2 on box, 1 near the headlight and the big earth strap. Maybe I should add more earths!
Maxi, what would you be checking with the multimeter?
Kieran, yeah man when you get yours sorted we will spend a day on mine then yours getting them sorted hopefully! :P Hope you get yours sorted soon, at least your engine is running ok!
Tigeryang
09-05-2007, 23:05
that reminds me ^ i changed the lambda with no joy either
hmmm, well the lambda wiring and the earth at the front of the gearbox is the only thing i can think of that would be getting wet in heavy rain?
all electrical connections get wet as the rain is forced though the rad. i start with these some wd40 and making sure the ecu is dry. with the multi meter start with battery voltage at battery then starter . alternator output. also check for earths by connecting battery positive though multi meter around the earths to check for good earths.
Imperial_16v
14-05-2007, 19:11
Hey,
Did this ever get fixed? I've just had the exact same issue this morning. Video to follow shortly once I compress and upload it.
In the meantime, I have already cleaned the ISCV. I was thinking would the Lambda sensor cause this problem?
It rained quite heavily for about 2 days and the car never moved. Should I perhaps try putting a sheet/carpet over the engine on a night time?
Cheers. Will post back with the video later.
not sorted it yet but bass has told me a few things to try.
None of my connections seem wet in the enginebay (like plugs and earths, ecu)
Yeah post a vid!
Imperial_16v
14-05-2007, 20:08
Cheers for the reply mate.
Video as promised. Notice, at roughly 20+ seconds in I hold the revs at 3k rpm and it still tries to stall even though my foot hasn't moved, just like yours mate. :? :(
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/j_firegod/th_HuntingRevs.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v223/j_firegod/?action=view¤t=HuntingRevs.flv)
Please any help would be much appreciated. All new items such as battery, alternator, plugs, king lead, dizzy, rotor arm, spark plugs, cleaned iscv.
HOWEVER! It wasn't doing this until after I had a new starter motor fitted. Now you need to remove the downpipe to get to the starter motor AFAIK, which has the lambda sensor on it. Perhaps this is where my problem lies???
Thanks. :(
Bass told me to get the earthing at my rear lights, low and behold I found this:
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/955/img3772as9.jpg
I don't know why this happened or how, but i've cleaned the contacts up, not tested it yet though.
But if it's not this I think it may likely be moisure in the lambda wiring. The downpipe doesn't need to be removed when changing the started, but it might be worth checking the connections on it are ok.
Also check the 2 earths on the gearbox as those have caused me issues before. The last place worth checking could be the TPS on the throttlebody.
told u the indicators were doing silly things other night mate :P
What is it about the French and the Italians when it comes to vehicle electrics? Can't they just hire a couple of Japanese engineers and be down with it? :)
What is it about the French and the Italians when it comes to vehicle electrics? Can't they just hire a couple of Japanese engineers and be down with it? :)
done with it.
Imperial_16V,
You might want to run a few extra ground cables to the starter motor, alternator and ECU area, just to rule out that bad earth is causing your problem.
well the plug thing didn't solve it.
Purple, where do you put the extra earths?
Imperial_16v
15-05-2007, 10:08
Thanks for all the ideas so far. I will try them all out.
AmDaMan, funny you should mention the TPS. I was mentioning this over on clio16valver (forums) and my TPS wiring is coming away at the red part. I can see bare wire. Could I spray WD40 onto that to reply any moisture?
I've been told by MAXIBOY (I think) to put some heatshrink over it to cover them back up.
Imperial_16v
15-05-2007, 19:03
Well here's a pic of those wires I mentioned earlier.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/j_firegod/Clio%2016v/TPS.jpg
I have sprayed them with WD40 to repel any water, and also I've just covered the engine over tonight to see if it starts any better tomorrow. We shall see!!!
holy crap mate that would be my number 1 port of call!!
Imperial_16v
15-05-2007, 20:08
holy crap mate that would be my number 1 port of call!!
Yeah? Lol fair do's. :lol:
Apparently you can't remove it because the screws set the position, or sommit like that. Would a garage or god forbid, renault, be able to fit a nice shiny new one for me?
How much do these things cost?
Thanks.
£100+ iirc, you can set them up too, there is a guide somewhere i think!
I think it's likely to be an earth now though because I was just driving through the rain and my full beam light partially illuminated, and when full beam was on the dipped beam stayed on!
You're having a nightmare with that car Amit!
I hope you get it sorted soon so we can go for a blast :lol:
yeah it's been acting really gay the fast few days!!
Just cleaned up my earths on the the box and alternator, checked all connections, reset ECU, nothing..
Next step is lambda, just waiting for it.
Imperial_16v
16-05-2007, 17:46
Next step is lambda, just waiting for it.
Let me know if that works. :D
Tigeryang
18-05-2007, 19:41
Cheers for the reply mate.
Video as promised. Notice, at roughly 20+ seconds in I hold the revs at 3k rpm and it still tries to stall even though my foot hasn't moved, just like yours mate. :? :(
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/j_firegod/th_HuntingRevs.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v223/j_firegod/?action=view¤t=HuntingRevs.flv)
Please any help would be much appreciated. All new items such as battery, alternator, plugs, king lead, dizzy, rotor arm, spark plugs, cleaned iscv.
HOWEVER! It wasn't doing this until after I had a new starter motor fitted. Now you need to remove the downpipe to get to the starter motor AFAIK, which has the lambda sensor on it. Perhaps this is where my problem lies???
Thanks. :(
thats ^ exactly what my williams has done for the past couple of years, ive just lived with it since, its a pain in the arse to try and source the fault with these kinda things :oops: :oops:
sorted!!! Changed the MAP sensor and lambda today, i'm guessing it was the lambda at fault though as it looked like a universal one, replaced it with Bosch, sweet as a nut.
:D glad you got it sorted mate.
Imperial_16v
19-05-2007, 15:28
sorted!!! Changed the MAP sensor and lambda today, i'm guessing it was the lambda at fault though as it looked like a universal one, replaced it with Bosch, sweet as a nut.
Legend. :)
Will get mine done along with the TPS. 8)
Tigeryang
20-05-2007, 16:39
sorted!!! Changed the MAP sensor and lambda today, i'm guessing it was the lambda at fault though as it looked like a universal one, replaced it with Bosch, sweet as a nut.
what is the map sensor and how do you go about changing it?
thanks
Lisa-F16
20-05-2007, 19:02
Cheers for the reply mate.
Video as promised. Notice, at roughly 20+ seconds in I hold the revs at 3k rpm and it still tries to stall even though my foot hasn't moved, just like yours mate. :? :(
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/j_firegod/th_HuntingRevs.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v223/j_firegod/?action=view¤t=HuntingRevs.flv)
My clio did that the other day... was revving nicely at 1k idle at the traffic lights... i set off when they went green... got to around 3k then they suddenly dropped altogether... the car wouldnt start either... like before i heard the fuel pump but no go :cry: only after sitting in the middle of the road for about 5 mins did it start again... then it was fine... just dont get it :?
what is the map sensor and how do you go about changing it?
thanks[/quote]
map sensor measure inlet manifold pressure. its a little black oblong fitted on the bulkhead by the drivers side suspension turret. just swap it. one little hose and an electrical plug.
My clio did that the other day... was revving nicely at 1k idle at the traffic lights... i set off when they went green... got to around 3k then they suddenly dropped altogether... the car wouldnt start either... like before i heard the fuel pump but no go :cry: only after sitting in the middle of the road for about 5 mins did it start again... then it was fine... just dont get it :? [/b][/color]
Mine did that this weekend, turned out to be a dodgy fuel relay.
Lisa-F16
21-05-2007, 00:40
My clio did that the other day... was revving nicely at 1k idle at the traffic lights... i set off when they went green... got to around 3k then they suddenly dropped altogether... the car wouldnt start either... like before i heard the fuel pump but no go :cry: only after sitting in the middle of the road for about 5 mins did it start again... then it was fine... just dont get it :? [/b][/color]
Mine did that this weekend, turned out to be a dodgy fuel relay.
Oooh thx I'll mention that to my garage :D ... booked him in for a service now so hopefully they will check everything over :D
Crossers
24-05-2007, 08:18
Regards the original problem,
I'd say it was the MAP sensor rather than oxygen sensor as mine has statrted doing this, right after I powerwashed the engine bay :oops:
The oxygen sensor was still dry, + the engine will still run without it and it doesn't effect the idle.
The engine won't run without the MAP sensor.
Paul
The engine does run without the MAP sensor but it's not very nice to watch/listen to.
I know because I once drove it home like that.
The lambda does affect the idle too.
Crossers
25-05-2007, 07:51
^^^ you must have rolled home then, it won't work without the MAP. sensor at all.
Unplug it and see dude! Its how i immobilise my car after i had to rip out the cobra immobiliser.
Anyway, my MAP sensor spent a day on the radiator at work and all is well now :D
Paul
Lol , it does work without the map sensor, just not very well. When you are moving and your foot is down it's quite easy to drive as if mainly affects idle and lower revs.
When I tried to set off it would struggle unless I applied the revs, when I got home, the map pipe wasn't connected.
Crossers
25-05-2007, 23:03
We clearly ment two different things!!
I ment disconnecting the plug (electrical) from the MAP sensor. Unplug that and the engine will not start, or will cut out if running.
Disconnect the vacuum hose and it will run, but badly.
There was clearly water in mine effecting the electrics within the unit, simulating the effect of the hose being disconnected. As above, sorted will a day on the rad.
Paul
Crossers
25-05-2007, 23:04
We clearly ment two different things!!
I ment disconnecting the plug (electrical) from the MAP sensor. Unplug that and the engine will not start, or will cut out if running.
Disconnect the vacuum hose and it will run, but badly.
There was clearly water in mine effecting the electrics within the unit, simulating the effect of the hose being disconnected. As above, sorted will a day on the rad.
Paul
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