View Full Version : Soft pedal conversion with 172 parts - have a problem!
Help!
Just been sorting out my gearbox putting the 172 parts in it for a softer pedal as suggested by someone on here.
These are the parts i purchased:
77 03 002 491 - BOLT SC .50 ---3 x 1
77 00 868 962 - PLATE CABLE 6.20 ---3 x 1
77 03 033 033 - USE 7701422013P10 .58 ---3 x 1
77 00 112 818 - CLUTCH FORK 31.54 ---3 x 1
77 00 875 163 - BUSH .67 ---3 x 1
The problem is, the release bearing for my existing clutch, and for my new GSF 'uprated' R5 GTT clutch don't fit the new release arm!
I will upload pics in a sec.. but any suggestions??
Do i need a new release bearing to fit the 172 release arm?
Cheers for any suggestions!
Pics -
With old release arm:
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h120/cliokiz/soft%20pedal%20conversion/SUC30808.jpg
With 172 release arm - doesn't fit
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h120/cliokiz/soft%20pedal%20conversion/SUC30807.jpg
Do i need a different arm or different release bearing?
Clio_GTT
29-04-2007, 13:54
you need the 172 release bearing too
77 00 112 818 Clutch fork (Clio II 172)
77 00 875 163 Pivot bush (Clio II 172)
77 00 868 962 Cable plate (Clio II 172)
77 03 002 491 Special (Fat headed) Bolt (Clio II 172)
77 01 422 013 Nut (Clio II 172)
77 00 102 781 Release bearing (Clio II 172)
77 00 840 640 Pedal stop (Megane coupe)
Ahh sweet, thought there was something missing!
What does the 'pedal stop' bit do - do i need that?
Also, will a standard 172 release bearing work with my R5 GTT uprated clutch? Probably a stupid question but wanna make sure before i put the engine back in and find out it doesn't!
VIPERONE
29-04-2007, 22:14
volvo parts:
Fork V03455952
Bracket V03424195
Nylon Cap V03467278
Brass Bush V03455957
Flange lock Nut V00971098
Flange Bolt V00946329
Clutch Pedal Stop Plastic Block from Renault 6006 003 944 is £1.28 inc VAT.
Total parts cost is around £23.00.
from retro renault guide for a soft clutch conversion
Clio_GTT
30-04-2007, 08:45
Ahh sweet, thought there was something missing!
What does the 'pedal stop' bit do - do i need that?
Also, will a standard 172 release bearing work with my R5 GTT uprated clutch? Probably a stupid question but wanna make sure before i put the engine back in and find out it doesn't!
yes it will mate as the renault 5 GTT boys do this conversion on that very clutch themselves as it's quite a tough clutch :D
Amirclio
30-04-2007, 16:57
What did i tell you Kiz! :roll:
Dunno? :oops:
Well anyway, picked up the 172 release bearing (Cheers Willy Lover! :lol: ), fits perfectly!
All sorted now :twisted:
Anyone interested in some pics of how it all goes together before i put the gearbox back onto the engine?
VIPERONE
30-04-2007, 23:31
yes mate i am..get on with it as i'll have to go order all the stuff!!
Ok will try and grab some pics tonight!
Ok as requested here's some pics of the 172 parts and how to fit them.
These are all the parts you need, and you also need a 172 release bearing, as the valver/willy items do not fit the new release arm.
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h120/cliokiz/alive/SUC30801.jpg
Here's the 172 items fitted to the gearbox:
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h120/cliokiz/alive/SUC30815.jpg
Very simple to fit, it's worth getting a new rubber gaitor for the top as mine had split and was just perishing, also worth replacing the pivot bush. Mine was a total pig to get out, took 2 of us, wiggling it with mole-grips and me chiseling from the side with a large screwdriver and a hammer. It looked like it wasn't meant to come off, but after a lot of pulling a tiny gap appeared, so i got the screwdriver in there and prized it off!
The old one looked very worn though so worth replacing for the cost.
Here's a comparison of the two arms
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h120/cliokiz/alive/SUC30805.jpg
As you can see there's quite a big difference, lol.
I'm running the R5GTT 'uprated' clutch from GSF, and was pleasantly suprised at how light it was! Took the car out for a quick spin round the block and it seems very drivable, despite everyone saying it's like an on/off switch, i didn't get that impression at all, but i'm sure the 172 parts help combat that.
Anyway, there you go, hope this helps some of you! Worth doing in my opinion, but BEWARE - the standard airbox doesn't seem to fit with the longer release arm! Yet to confirm whether this is the case but it won't fit without modification....
VIPERONE
07-05-2007, 23:29
cheers mate:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y109/gunnergibson/Turbo%20conversion/SUC30801.jpg
can u confirm where that part goes...as the pivot bush i got just clipped over the brass part that the oldone wasremoved from..unless that part is the brass unit itself?
VIPERONE
07-05-2007, 23:30
also what was the total cost
mike16valver
06-06-2007, 11:29
Thinking of doing the VERY VERY soon, seen as the my cable has SNAPPED GGRRR :evil: :rant:
Which is the best conversion to use...? The 172 Parts or the Volvo, or is it user preference....?
Cheers
Mike
^^As above, which one is best & what's the cost of each?
How much higher does the pedal sit, and what's the bite like?
Will be getting the R5 uprated clutch on the willy engine soon.
Cheers,
Al
Hi all,
I'm still having issues with mine at the moment using 172 parts. Basically the clutch won't release fully with the standard valver pedal stop in place, and i can only get it working with the pedal stop taken out.
The downside of this is that the pedal sits extremely high and is uncomfortable to drive.
I've been driving it for a while now and the clutch feels great though, the bite point is slightly higher than normal but you do get used to it. The bite feels very positive and the clutch feels like it can take a lot of stick, which is more that can be said for the Standard clutch.
The clutch (R5GTT uprated clutch from GSF) comes in a Valeo box, so its good quality as well.
There's a guide on Retro Renault (which i only found out about after i did the conversion with 172 parts..) with a part list on there of volvo parts. It also mentions trimming the standard valver pedal stop in order to make the pedal sit slightly higher to provide more travel, as obviously with a longer arm it needs to travel more than the smaller standard item in order to release the clutch.
The volvo arm must be slightly shorter than a 172 arm as i'm still having issues with mine. Have tried using spacers between the end of the clutch cable and the clutch arm to try and make it release sooner, but the ratchet just adjusts itself and slackens the cable so it pulls just as much as it did before.
The engine is possibly coming out of the hybrid soon for some head work, so i might just get the volvo parts and stick those in instead, but thats unconfirmed yet.
I'm determined to get this working using the standard pedal stop, as i don't like the pedal sitting higher than normal as it becomes uncomfortable, so i'll report back on the progress with that.
I'll find my invoice for all the parts and let you know the total cost of the conversion with 172 parts.
Feel free to PM or post if you need to know anything.
mike16valver
06-06-2007, 13:21
On the Same Subject,
Can anyone provide me with the O/E Pivot Bush Part number for 1.8 16v M-reg Ph2.. OR if the 172 Pivot Bush will just be as good to use...?
Cheers
Mike
Cheers for that fella!
I agree, it sounds like the 172 release arm is longer than the volvo one.
Hmmm... i dunno whether to have a go or not! Not long had this sort of trouble with the standard clutch in. I don't fancy having to take the engine back out again to switch the arm back to standard if i can't get it right.
Saying that, the guide is up there, so it must work or they it wouldn't be up!
How much higher is your clutch pedal sitting now then? Got any pics?
On the Same Subject,
Can anyone provide me with the O/E Pivot Bush Part number for 1.8 16v M-reg Ph2.. OR if the 172 Pivot Bush will just be as good to use...?
Cheers
Mike
Mike,
I'm fairly sure this is the part number for the 172 pivot push:
77 00 875 163 - BUSH .67 ---3 x 1
Looked the same as the standard valver item but worth getting someone to confirm that.
Cheers for that fella!
I agree, it sounds like the 172 release arm is longer than the volvo one.
Hmmm... i dunno whether to have a go or not! Not long had this sort of trouble with the standard clutch in. I don't fancy having to take the engine back out again to switch the arm back to standard if i can't get it right.
Saying that, the guide is up there, so it must work or they it wouldn't be up!
How much higher is your clutch pedal sitting now then? Got any pics?
If you want an idea of how high my clutch pedal is at the moment, just take out your green pedal stop. It's just a green piece of plastic clipped on to the metal frame that the clutch pedal rests against when it's not depressed.
I'll have to get you a pic of it. Bear in mind that this isn't a true reflection of how the soft pedal conversion should be, you are supposed to have a pedal stop in to keep the clutch down in line with the other pedals. There is mention however of trimming the standard pedal stop to make the clutch pedal sit slightly higher when using the volvo item, so i'm not sure if it's possible to use a standard pedal stop without having issues of it not releasing properly.
I'm going to experiment to see if i can sort it out.
If you're thinking of doing it i would just follow the guide on Retro Renault, the guide is there for a reason and it obviously works, so just go for that.
mike16valver
06-06-2007, 14:23
O.k Well jst to give you all an idea of what the difference maybe between the 172 conversion to the Volvo Conversion..
I have decided to go for the Volvo Conv, i have jst ordered all my parts now.. I was going to do it all this weekend and keep you all upto date, but the Brass Bush V03455957 will not be in untill monday,
Guy says its a Swedish Bank holiday today....
So A question for you guys, seens as tho is jst a bush and volvo used Renault parts back then am i able to purchase something similar if not the same form Renault Dealers...
Cheers Mike
mike16valver
06-06-2007, 14:33
On the Same Subject,
Can anyone provide me with the O/E Pivot Bush Part number for 1.8 16v M-reg Ph2.. OR if the 172 Pivot Bush will just be as good to use...?
Cheers
Mike
Mike,
I'm fairly sure this is the part number for the 172 pivot push:
77 00 875 163 - BUSH .67 ---3 x 1
Looked the same as the standard valver item but worth getting someone to confirm that.
Thanks for that Kieran :D
If you want an idea of how high my clutch pedal is at the moment, just take out your green pedal stop. It's just a green piece of plastic clipped on to the metal frame that the clutch pedal rests against when it's not depressed.
I'll have to get you a pic of it. Bear in mind that this isn't a true reflection of how the soft pedal conversion should be, you are supposed to have a pedal stop in to keep the clutch down in line with the other pedals. There is mention however of trimming the standard pedal stop to make the clutch pedal sit slightly higher when using the volvo item, so i'm not sure if it's possible to use a standard pedal stop without having issues of it not releasing properly.
I'm going to experiment to see if i can sort it out.
If you're thinking of doing it i would just follow the guide on Retro Renault, the guide is there for a reason and it obviously works, so just go for that.
I'll have to have a butchers this weekend to see what it's like. I agree that volvo parts is the way to go though. I imagine that with just having to trim the pedal stop, the bite is quite low down.
Mike, how much were all the parts from volvo please? I know they say it's £23 or summut on retro, but that guide was put up a while ago so they've probably gone up?
Cheers lads!
I'll have to have a butchers this weekend to see what it's like. I agree that volvo parts is the way to go though. I imagine that with just having to trim the pedal stop, the bite is quite low down.
!
How did you come to that conclusion?
Thinking because it says on retros' guide that you'd have to push the pedal through the floor without the stop. Hence the bite would basically be with the pedal fully down. So i'm assuming chopping a bit off the stop would bring the bite up just a little bit - or more if you chopped more off.
I could be, and probably will be wrong though!! :? :D
Oh i see what you mean now. You're probably right, with my pedal stop in place using the 172 release arm, i can't get it to release the clutch fully, so you're right about the bite point being very low down.
When you take it out and pump the pedal, the ratchet adjusts, and brings the bite right up, so obviously you need to do something to get that inbetween area. That's what i'm working on at the moment.
I found a PM from Bass direct that he sent a while ago, as i asked him about the problem with the pedal being so high. I'll post up what he replied, i totally forgot that he sent it and it's a potential solution.
Here's the PM's Bass sent to me:
His first PM:
put your clutch pedal stop back in so it sits where it was before..
then whack a spacer (like a thick washer anywhere between 12-20mm) on the clutch cable - gearbox end, and that'll solve the problem
do it
Then he elaborated more:
if you get like a hub nut... get a grinder on it, so there's like 3mm gap in the hub nut (yes 3mm ) and you know where hole in the gearbox where the clutch cable goes through... take the clutch cable out, and put it over the 'string' thin bit of the clutch cable, and put the clutch cable back on.. if that makes sense, then that's what to do!
I'm going to give this a try and see what happens.
You could do that i suppose yeah. I read somewhere - possibly this thread, about the ratchet re-adjusting and creating the same bite if you put spacers in????
Have you tried cutting your old pedal stop down bit by bit until you get the bite right? I haven't a clue what these pedal stops look like yet, as i haven't had the time to look yet. However, obviously the bite is too low with the stop in place, and from what you've said, it's too high with the stop out. Hence as you said, somewhere in between is desirable.
Have you tried hacksawing the stop down yet? What's the worst that can happen? Just buy a new stop if it goes wrong!
What you have to remember as well, is that due to having a longer release arm, it pivots more where the cable is attached. Hence, the extra movement required has to come from somewhere, which is why you trim the pedal stop - to get the extra movement required.
I personally wouldn't want to put a spacer in, just incase you start the movement of the clutch slightly, which might possibly cause your clutch to start de-clutching a tiny bit, which could lead to premature wear of your clutch.
^^Does that make sense?!? :? :?
Yeah perfect sense mate.
I know trimming the pedal stop is a solution, but i'm trying to avoid doing that, because i don't want the pedal sitting any higher than it does with the pedal stop in place - it's already higher than all other pedals!
Thats why i'm trying to see if you can use spacers to bring the arm forward a bit and bring the bite further up the pedal, which should hopefully make it work. So i'll use Bass's idea and put a spacer where he suggested and see if that worked.
I tried putting a spacer between the end of the cable and the release arm, to pull the arm in a bit and hopefully raise the bite, but it didn't work as the ratchet just adjusted itself and went back to how it was before. I'll try bass's idea and see what happens.
If not, then trimming the pedal stop is going to be the only way of doing it!
I read you must do this when using the volvo release arm so it's going to be no different regardless of which parts you use it seems.
^^been trying to make sense of exactly where bass said to put the hub nut!
Does he mean to put it where the cable actually goes through, not the fork?
I'd buy another pedal stop and have an experiment. You might only have to take a small bit off the stop, hence the pedal wouldn't come up much - no where near as much as it would with the spacer completely out. You never know, you might be pleasantly surprised and be able to live with it!
Basically what he's saying is, saw a 3mm gap on the side of the hub nut, or similar piece of metal, which is just big enough to slide the clutch cable inside.
So, once you've got this slit, pull the cable off the release arm, and pull the cable out of the cable holder slightly (the piece of metal that holds the cable in place), then push the hub nut over the cable in front of the.... oh **** this, i'll make a diagram!!!
mike16valver
08-06-2007, 19:25
Would it not be easier to try and take some of the tension at the bracket end, I.e Make the bracket abit higher, so it pulls the cable more, Thus giving the correct amount of leverage for the cable to disengage to clutch, with the clutch pedal not much higher than normal
This is assuming of course u arn't using a standard airbox...?
Thoughts.....?
Ok here's a quick diagram i made, hopefully it kinda makes sense and explains what Bass is recommending we do...
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h120/cliokiz/soft%20pedal%20conversion/172softpedal.jpg
Standard airbox WILL fit with this conversion if you saw off the hose connection on the bottom. I'm running a standard airbox with ITG filter with the 172 release arm and clutch cable holder extension on. It's tight but it fits.
RIGHT!
Proper went for it today as i was sick of having a sky high clutch, and thanks to Bass's idea of putting a spacer in to hold the outer cable back, i've now got it working!!
I took some pics of the spacer i made (thankyou to the tin in the garage containing this random piece of plastic!)
Here you go:
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h120/cliokiz/soft%20pedal%20conversion/SUC30828.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h120/cliokiz/soft%20pedal%20conversion/SUC30829.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h120/cliokiz/soft%20pedal%20conversion/SUC30830.jpg
Clutch back in the normal position with the normal pedal stop in place, which has NOT been trimmed:
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h120/cliokiz/soft%20pedal%20conversion/SUC30837.jpg
So there you go, if you want this conversion to work without raising the clutch pedal, thats how its done. Luckily the piece of plastic i found was perfect for the job, with a bit of filing it fit into the hole ok, and the rubber part of the outer cable fits into the end of the plastic perfectly!
The bite point is now really nice and low where it should be, feels really positive. Haven't test driven it yet but it selects gears no problem so there's definately no issue with the clutch not disengaging fully. I can't test drive it until next week when i sort my MOT out, but i'll keep you posted!
Feel free to PM if you need any tips with the conversion.
The ONLY downside i can see with using the 172 release arm is that the rubber gaitor doesn't stay in place (as you can see). You can get it in place but it keeps working itself out, so should the engine ever have to come out again i'll probably swap it for a volvo release arm.
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h120/cliokiz/soft%20pedal%20conversion/SUC30828.jpg
Have you always had that metal and plastic bit dangling around in the middle??? 'cause i'm sure you're meant to pull that over the release fork as well. That can't be helping your bite point at all mate.
On the other hand, well done for getting it working! Although i will say, watch out when the car gets piping hot, as it tends to lower the bite alot on mine.
Yup that rubber bit is supposed to go in front of the release arm!
and the round metal bit also. plus can,t you buy a 172 rubber for the gearbox where the arm goes though
Hadn't thought of that maxiboy, lol, i'll give that a go!
The bite point is currently very low, so i thought if i pull the two parts floating in the middle over the release arm as well, that's going to lower the bite point even more isn't it??
I couldn't pull them over initially, i could only just get the first pedal piece over the release arm as there wasn't enough slack on the cable! I'll have a go at getting the other bits over the release arm but i don't want the bite point to get any lower!
Just had a thought though, when it does get piping hot in there, i hope the plastic doesn't melt :shock:
If you managed to pull them over the fork, i imagine it would bring the bite up slightly, not lower it. As the release fork has been pulled slightly more out. Think about it hard and i think it makes sense! Well, in my head.
However, from what's been said previously, the ratchet might just adjust it back to what it was before anyway!
Lol it hurts my head to try and figure it all out theoretically, i'll give it a go and see if i can get them over the release arm and see what affect it has!
I'm just glad to have my clutch pedal back in its normal place as it was quite uncomfortable before! I can't drive it yet though so i don't know if it works properly or not - MOT has expired and the damn thing failed, so it will be Thursday at the earliest before i know.
I shall keep you all posted though!
Maxiboy - you mentioned using a 172 gaitor for the release arm as it would probably fit better, my question is, will this fit on the williams gearbox? Is the hole the same size on the 172 gearbox?
i think there all identical boxes except the mounting points. you will have to try one i,m afraid.
Ahh ok sweet! I'll give it a go.
RIGHT! Update!
Remember the white spacer i put in to get the clutch to release and work properly without modifying the pedal stop? Well, i took it out for a test drive the other day. Drove for half an hour, it was fine, parked in a car park and went to work. Then i finished work and drove for another half an hour, got to my girlfriends house, started parking, and noticed the car was jolting very slightly when putting it into first :(
Played around by putting those two spacers on the end of the clutch cable over the arm to pull it back more (if you remember i left these off as i couldn't get them on), tried to drive some more and it was just crunching into gear :cry:
SO, it looks like this just isn't possible without modifying the pedal stop to bring the clutch pedal up slightly, as i think it just NEEDS that extra travel and no matter what you do to avoid it, it always comes back to that.
Currently i'm driving without the pedal stop which is of course quite uncomfortable, but it's gotta be an improvement driving with a slightly smaller pedal stop!
At the weekend i'm gonna start trimming the pedal stop and taking all my spacers out and see where that gets me.
Will keep the thread updated.
Gutted for ya mate! After all that effort, you're doing just what you didn't want to. Must be really pissed off!
Picking up my parts from volvo chester today. & my ordered pedal stop from renault.
& by the sounds of it, you should't need to trim much off the pedal stop.
Fingers crossed for ya mate!
Yeah i thought that too. I'm getting quite used to driving it without the pedal stop now, and it's not too bad, so i just think to myself, well it can only get better with a slightly reduced pedal stop in, so i'll just have to get used to it being a tiny bit higher than standard (but a hell of a lot lower than without the pedal stop!)
So yeah, nevermind, i tried, lol, i'll just whack the pedal stop in and be done with it i think!
Oh well at least it's working right - imagine if you found out the 172 fork wasn't compatible after all!!!
Picked up my parts - volvo dealership was excellent. Wish renault were that helpfull!
Then went to my local renault and got my pedal stop. Jesus christ - £4.45 for that little bit of plastic. Renault prices really do take the piss. Plus it took them ages to find the part. E-jits!
superfive
26-04-2010, 15:50
I did conversion with Volvo parts, everythinig works fine, a bit higher pedal, but extremely soft, nice change after few years of pain in lega and back :). I just need a new gaitor, anyone has Volvo part num?
Thanks,
Dragan
Hi guys, does anyone have a comparison photo of the volvo arm? as the photo on the old thread I found has gone.
Has anyone measured the length of the 172 arm? as I was trying to work out the extra cable travel distance needed.
A rough guide for 20mm movement on the release bearing you need
at the cable end:
33.4mm std
55.2mm volvo
and guestimate 54mm on 172
does that seem bout right :)
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