Help! Serious power loss – valver

[mk1 clio]

Hey Guys,

Ill get straight to the problem, got the car Rolling Roaded today for a power run and all was going well until the fella asked what I had done to the engine, (i thought he ment what sort of engine work had i done as they was good results, but he ment it because the results were very strange)

The car was ROLLING ROADED today at 95Hp @ 6006rpm

So any ideas were 1/3 of the standard power has gone? :cry: :cry:

I came from a 1.2 8v clio, so i didnt really notice it underpowered as such :oops:

I bought the car from a fella who had no real service history or anything with it, he bought it and had it garaged for 18 months with the intention of converting it for rallies but then bought a williams.

He told me that it had cams fitted by a local guy (who had a very good reputation for engine work) but i have no proof of this apart from the characteristics of the car : lumpy on start up from cold.

Ive a pic here of the cams (see below) Can anyone tell me if these are aftermarket?


The car is a valver ph1 with 60,000 miles on it.

Done a compression test and all four are the same @ 13 bar each

oil pressure is fine as is temperature (oil and coolant) when driving

It has a scorpion ss exhuast with decat, and an Airfilter with standard box

Any ideas on what it could be? The fella that Rolling roaded it said it may be that the cams are not timed correctly? Anything else to check or change?

Cheers in advance,

Darren

Cams:

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c53/coolfire_99/Valver/P3230011.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c53/coolfire_99/Valver/P3230002.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c53/coolfire_99/Valver/P3230006.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c53/coolfire_99/Valver/P3230007.jpg

[Justin..]

95bhp ATF or ATW ?

[Laine_16v]

95bhp ATF or ATW ?

I would say thats ATW, and even then its a poor figure.

[mk1 clio]

Yea sorry its ATW :shock: :shock: :shock:

[mk1 clio]

Yea sorry its ATW :shock: :shock: :shock:

Sorry actually, ATF meant to say, :shock: :shock:

that is the standard power run to give it at the Fly? It actually dosnt say on the graph but its the figure that should be 137 or so standard :oops:

[MAXIBOY]

what information did you get from the rolling road guy. was it fuelling correctly. could it be something as simple as a old unserviced fuel filter. on does he think its cam based. if it,s had different cams without the correct timing and a remap its easily possible its not making the standard power.

[mk1 clio]

he told me to give it a compression test (which ive done) and a leak down test (What exactly is this? havnt sone one before, is it on the fuel injection system?)

He said the air/ fuel ratio was up was a bit abnormal as it peaks and dips quite a bit, but it should be a near enough straight line?

Ill try to get the graphs scanned here and throw them up,

Am i correct in thinking that it may actually be power measured from the wheel as it says on the graph " DIN WHEEL POWER (Hp) " ? :shock:

im new to all this rolling road stuff! :lol:

[mk1 clio]

Heres the graph:

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c53/coolfire_99/Valver/BHPFIGURE-1.jpg

[Coops]

looks a bit ropey, get a new engine bought that u can see the history of, tbh if your handy with a spanner its easier, can spend £100's on diagnosis of that lump of 100 will buy a decent 16v lump!

[Justin..]

looks a bit ropey, get a new engine bought that u can see the history of, tbh if your handy with a spanner its easier, can spend £100's on diagnosis of that lump of 100 will buy a decent 16v lump! :agree: :goodposting:

[Mr.AdamB]

my advice is give it a FULL service. and put cheap oil through it 1st run it for a week with shit oil then change it again for sum decent oil, mobile 1 or sumthing.

feul filter, new oil, get some Forte injector cleaner off ebay, run it on "go fast" feul. new air filter.

my old 1 was a bit underpowered once was 98 atw after a full service it was at 113 atw

[mk1 clio]

was talking to the fella who rolling roaded it, it turns out it was a wheel Hp figure he has give me, (on the graph above) but he was telling me it was a fly wheel figure that i had got. (he told me it was 95 ATF) where he was actually measuring it at the wheels.

So how far is 95 ATF off standard?

Still the same problems? Cam timing? good service? It has had a coolant flush, oil and filter change and an ITG air filter just fitted, I havnt changed the fuel filter or cleaned the injectors so ill get that done.

Also can anyone tell by looking at the cam pics if they are standard or aftermarket? or is that not really possible,

Cheers for the advice guys,

Darren

[MAXIBOY]

well your looking at 130bhp at the flywheel with 25 to 35% transmission loses on average. have seen transmission loses as low as 15% but rarely. so at 25% your looking at 32.5 bhp loss. so about right. impossible to tell buy just looking at the cams. get a dial gauge a measure lift. anything around 9mm and over is prob after market.

[Matt_16v]

I have a good strong valver lump for sale if you're interested??

[mk1 clio]

well your looking at 130bhp at the flywheel with 25 to 35% transmission loses on average. have seen transmission loses as low as 15% but rarely. so at 25% your looking at 32.5 bhp loss. so about right. impossible to tell buy just looking at the cams. get a dial gauge a measure lift. anything around 9mm and over is prob after market.


Cheers for that, ill get a look at the cams and measure them to give me an idea, ill give the car another oil change, and change the fuel filter (as i dont know when it was last changed) Is it worth having the injectors refurbished? or try some injector cleaner first? Any other things to try and gain a bit of Hp back?



I have a good strong valver lump for sale if you're interested??

im going see if i can get this engine sorted, if not then ill be on the lookout, altho id say postage to Northern Ireland would be a few quid! lol :P

[MAXIBOY]

loads of bits really. if the temp sensors or lamda probe or a number of items aren,t functioning right it will run poor. could be loads of things really. but i would suspect the bad service history first. any chance you could get it run on an rx25 i think its called. its a renault diagnostic computer and go from there. once that done check the cam lift and cams and then you will need a remap. know idea where over there though.

[mk1 clio]

loads of bits really. if the temp sensors or lamda probe or a number of items aren,t functioning right it will run poor. could be loads of things really. but i would suspect the bad service history first. any chance you could get it run on an rx25 i think its called. its a renault diagnostic computer and go from there. once that done check the cam lift and cams and then you will need a remap. know idea where over there though.

I know a guy in Renault, so ill try to get it on the diagnostics computer. I take it, it would find any problems with any of the sensors or probes?

[mk1 clio]

Hi guys,

Went back to the guy who did the RR as he had given me the graph for HP ATW but was adamant that it was HP ATF

so he give me the new graph (below) (138.3 HP @ 6662 rpm)

But I'm still wondering if the car has had aftermarket cams fitted, if so its only making standard power, could this be because they aren't timed correctly? There is the usual rough start and idle, (until warm) that i was told to expect with cams.

My question is do you guys think its likely there is cams fitted and if not, why is it so dam rough on start up from cold?

I'm still trying to get in contact with the owner that supposedly fitted cams but to no avail as of yet.

Also the air/fuel ratios still seem to be up the left. Ive changed the fuel filter but not noticed any difference. Is there anything else to check/ change?

Many thanks guys,

Darren

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c53/coolfire_99/Valver/NEWFLYWHEELHP.jpg

[Daz.]

have you tried getting it roaded at another garage?

[mk1 clio]

no this is the first time Ive had it RR'd, what would it show me? Just if it it consistent? The guy has a real good reputation that did it but just made a genuine mistake, he couldn't be more apologetic when he realised what he had done! so i don't doubt his results in that way, because he made a mistake.

But I could get it on another set of rollers, if it would show any discrepancies or anything like that :)

[Coops]

what other mods are there to the car? decat etc? it may only be making that as an old engine will be down on power, so the cams may just be bringing it back up to std, a damn good service with new belts n that etc etc cud see you a few more

[mk1 clio]

what other mods are there to the car? decat etc? it may only be making that as an old engine will be down on power, so the cams may just be bringing it back up to std, a damn good service with new belts n that etc etc cud see you a few more

Yea theres a decat, a scorpion exhaust, ITG panel filter, and possibly cams (I was told there definitely was)

Since Ive had it, Ive changed the oil and filter, flushed the coolant system & new coolant, new fuel filter, new air filter, new HT leads & dizzy cap.

Cam belt looks like new, (Was told it was done a few thousand miles before i got it)

Only thing i can think of at the minute that needs looked at is the power steering pump is fcukered, it isn't actually power assisting the steering any longer! and is making squeaking, squealing noises. Could that be bringing power down?