PDA

View Full Version : Williams coversion with a turbo or TB's



1995clio16v
07-03-2007, 23:14
Hi guys,

Within the next 12months, more likely next summer I am going to convert my 16v to either a;

16v with a turbo - am i right in saying a 16v engine is better suited to a turbo upgrade than a williams, obviously with a gearbox change though?

or

williams with a turbo

or

williams with throttle boddies

Can someone tell me which is the best option for reliability/fun/power etc and WHY please?

Im soon to start amassing the parts as cash is an issue and I need to do it over time.

I have absolutely no intention of ever selling my 16v (seriously) because it's worth about £1500 and the amount of my own time I have spent on it, it just means too much to me, so thats the reason Im willing to throw some cash at it!

wavy
07-03-2007, 23:21
williams with throttle boddies if i had choice
why change the g/b ?
turbo seems a lot more ££

1995clio16v
07-03-2007, 23:24
I was under the impression a turbo on a std 16v would give the gearbox a hard time.

Thanks for your thoughts. I just need as much info as poss.

stan
07-03-2007, 23:32
unless youve got muchos wonga to do it right, i would leave the turbo option.

Throttle bodies require alot less revision of the base engine, and so can be fitted to a standard engine, and work. you cant do this with a turbo.

pm me for prices on parts etc or for further info if you need it

1995clio16v
07-03-2007, 23:48
unless youve got muchos wonga to do it right, i would leave the turbo option.

Throttle bodies require alot less revision of the base engine, and so can be fitted to a standard engine, and work. you cant do this with a turbo.

pm me for prices on parts etc or for further info if you need it

Stan..PM'd.

VIPERONE
08-03-2007, 00:04
i would agree with stan.. the only reason ive got a turbo setup is tht i hit it lucky and bought a non running 16v turbo for £700

MAXIBOY
08-03-2007, 00:05
agree with stan

Matt_16v
08-03-2007, 11:01
agree also, I was going to turbo my 16v but am going for TB's on a willy lump in the end....more reliable power

MAXIBOY
08-03-2007, 11:40
agree also, I was going to turbo my 16v but am going for TB's on a willy lump in the end....more reliable power

thottle bodied's are not more reliable but are cheaper to make reliable. turbo,s are just as reliable and will produced more power reliably if done right. just they cost more to do right. if i was to go the turbo route again i would buy the best secondhand turbo conversion i could like gunner and then put it right. rather than start from scratch. much cheaper that way.

Martin
08-03-2007, 13:11
All the options are seriously pricey lol

There is no right or wrong answer...I'd like to drive a turbo'd clio before I give an opinion really....both have their plus' & minus'....I'm sure you already have an idea which way you want to go.

cliolord
08-03-2007, 19:33
agreed with TB conversion but once again it depends what you want out of it like Martin said....You obviously want a fair bit of power out of it, 200hp+? As already stated above, in order to get the 200+ marker you need to change the compression ratio on a turbo conversion which also requires a dodgy 3 layer head gasket normally and the addition to conrods and pistons to suit. From what I have heard, there is hardly any difference between the 16v and williams engines in terms of power and delivery once turbo charged as using things like larger inlet valves are not necessary. The gearbox issue can be resolved by using the JC5 williams gearbox which will be fine for silly power as long as you dont run slicks, launch it all the time and remember that it isn't a crash gearbox so don't full throttle gear change or change egar in 0.10 seconds (talk to 2live about this :lol:)

TB = no lagg, smoother idle on high lift cams due to removed map sensor (that's right isn't it Stan 8) ) The power delivery will be gradual in the TB, well more gradual than the high boost turbo conversion which means traction will be a little better but don't expect to be able to nail it in first gear, I have trouble with that and that is with a 180/190hp hybrid on eagle F1's. I have tones of fun with my standard plenum hybrid with worked head and cams, especially on the A roads where it really shines. once on cam it screams clean power. until it's held back by the ECU which will be mapped asap :twisted:

Talking to Stan will definitly be a good idea though. Good luck with it mate 8)

Fusionrs
08-03-2007, 20:09
Well im hoping a 2.0 on throttle bodies will be sweet, mines going in next week!!

2 live
08-03-2007, 20:26
well... the 1.8 turbos arent all that quick..imo......for the cost of em.

iv raced nick reads old un many times, and never found it to have the £000's edge on mine., going on to beat it several times down the 1/4, altho once moving it was a diff story lol.

btw....think its had summat like 3 gearboxes in it in last 2 years, mileage being a minimal. and brand new willy boxes too iirc.

Daz.
08-03-2007, 21:24
I want boddies, always have but I juct cant get my head round the need for them sometimes, Headwork, Cams, Remap, Bot of strippage - we all know tis fast as fook like that!

For example Martin, Is there such a big big difference from your hybrid to the boddies beast?

Is it night and day or is it just quicker..

(Winston don't read this - I said cams, for my car.. Eeeek.... :lol: )

J o n
08-03-2007, 21:26
Reno boxes wont last if you give them stick, big power or not... lol

1995clio16v
08-03-2007, 21:37
agreed with TB conversion but once again it depends what you want out of it like Martin said....You obviously want a fair bit of power out of it, 200hp+? As already stated above, in order to get the 200+ marker you need to change the compression ratio on a turbo conversion which also requires a dodgy 3 layer head gasket normally and the addition to conrods and pistons to suit. From what I have heard, there is hardly any difference between the 16v and williams engines in terms of power and delivery once turbo charged as using things like larger inlet valves are not necessary. The gearbox issue can be resolved by using the JC5 williams gearbox which will be fine for silly power as long as you dont run slicks, launch it all the time and remember that it isn't a crash gearbox so don't full throttle gear change or change egar in 0.10 seconds (talk to 2live about this :lol:)

TB = no lagg, smoother idle on high lift cams due to removed map sensor (that's right isn't it Stan 8) ) The power delivery will be gradual in the TB, well more gradual than the high boost turbo conversion which means traction will be a little better but don't expect to be able to nail it in first gear, I have trouble with that and that is with a 180/190hp hybrid on eagle F1's. I have tones of fun with my standard plenum hybrid with worked head and cams, especially on the A roads where it really shines. once on cam it screams clean power. until it's held back by the ECU which will be mapped asap :twisted:

Talking to Stan will definitly be a good idea though. Good luck with it mate 8)

Thank you Cliolord for the detailed analysis!

My head says turbo but my heart says TB's.

I think it will be TB's in the end due to most people recomending this option but then the argument is that this is only because not many have had them.

But as another guy says here that if you can't nail a TBoddied in 1st then what on earth would a turbo be like....

I really do think I need to be sensible and go the TB route.


I would like 200-210 bhp.

After all the speed limit in most places is 30mph. :o

J o n
08-03-2007, 22:01
think you could see 220bhp on a stock engine tbh, mine's made 240 with standard bottom end and head. I doubt the power claim from the RR tbh, but imo it's at least 220+ more realistically and the F7R is a better engine than the F4R I have in the 17pooooo

Daz.
08-03-2007, 22:16
Whats Martins then?

DaveH
09-03-2007, 01:00
216 iirc, think it had wideband lambada fitted since though, power may differ slightly. Stock bottom end isnt it?

Martin
09-03-2007, 08:49
Mines has totally stock btm end....217bhp

Daz the difference between this car and the old un is very apparant in 3rd,4th & 5th gear.

J o n
09-03-2007, 11:25
Think your engine is pretty much same state of tune as mine aint it Martin? Or does your have head work, canne remember...? :?

It's amazing how hard they pull in 4th and 5th where a none ITB'd engine would start to fall off a bit these are relentless to the limiter in 5th

1995clio16v
09-03-2007, 12:23
Think your engine is pretty much same state of tune as mine aint it Martin? Or does your have head work, canne remember...? :?

It's amazing how hard they pull in 4th and 5th where a none ITB'd engine would start to fall off a bit these are relentless to the limiter in 5th

:o

VIPERONE
09-03-2007, 15:00
btw....think its had summat like 3 gearboxes in it in last 2 years, mileage being a minimal. and brand new willy boxes too iirc.

how many boses have you had..hehe

ive gone through 3 in a n/a engine,,, and a fair point you made... finding a strong enough gearbox will be fun.... and i dont particularly like changing them!

2 live
09-03-2007, 15:12
yeah but i am harsh on boxes, il b the 1st to admit lol. and the mileage diff would be summat like 3k miles per mile between boxes...mine being 2nd hand too so dunno how the previous owneres have used em.

cliolord
09-03-2007, 20:37
I dont really notice a great drop in power in mine tbh, 4th is still pulling really well although once changed into 5th, it takes about 500rpm to fully come on cam again and pull like a gooden up to 135 easy on standard limiter. Can someone please pm me chipwizards number (sorry to spam :oops:)

J o n
10-03-2007, 01:12
I dont really notice a great drop in power in mine tbh, 4th is still pulling really well although once changed into 5th, it takes about 500rpm to fully come on cam again and pull like a gooden up to 135 easy on standard limiter. Can someone please pm me chipwizards number (sorry to spam :oops:)

get bodies and 5th gear will pull like 3rd does now... I shit you not lol

bass_direct
10-03-2007, 02:06
santa pod sometime this summer hopefully, mine and gunner's turbo's, vs martin + jesus TB :P :lol:

stan
10-03-2007, 09:52
****, mine might even be ready by then :D

2 live
10-03-2007, 11:07
lol.....and mine ;)

Matt_16v
10-03-2007, 12:54
f**k, mine might even be ready by then :D


and mine eh stan :wink: :P

J o n
10-03-2007, 13:13
Bodies will win by the time mine's ready to be turned into a quarter mile beast... will wait til I have my forged 9500rpm bottom end ;)

cliolord
10-03-2007, 14:11
lol i'm going to santa pod tomorrow to see martin's animal fly down there 8) cant wait to see yours craig, that will be silly :lol:

david932
10-03-2007, 19:18
agreed with TB conversion but once again it depends what you want out of it like Martin said....You obviously want a fair bit of power out of it, 200hp+? As already stated above, in order to get the 200+ marker you need to change the compression ratio on a turbo conversion which also requires a dodgy 3 layer head gasket normally and the addition to conrods and pistons to suit. From what I have heard, there is hardly any difference between the 16v and williams engines in terms of power and delivery once turbo charged as using things like larger inlet valves are not necessary. The gearbox issue can be resolved by using the JC5 williams gearbox which will be fine for silly power as long as you dont run slicks, launch it all the time and remember that it isn't a crash gearbox so don't full throttle gear change or change egar in 0.10 seconds (talk to 2live about this :lol:)

TB = no lagg, smoother idle on high lift cams due to removed map sensor (that's right isn't it Stan 8) ) The power delivery will be gradual in the TB, well more gradual than the high boost turbo conversion which means traction will be a little better but don't expect to be able to nail it in first gear, I have trouble with that and that is with a 180/190hp hybrid on eagle F1's. I have tones of fun with my standard plenum hybrid with worked head and cams, especially on the A roads where it really shines. once on cam it screams clean power. until it's held back by the ECU which will be mapped asap :twisted:

Talking to Stan will definitly be a good idea though. Good luck with it mate 8)

:? have you removed it completely?

cliolord
10-03-2007, 19:23
I was under the impression that new management i.e; Omex bypassed the map sensor giving better idling? If this is wrong, I do apologize

david932
10-03-2007, 19:32
sorry my mistake i read incorrectly, i thought u ment on yours :oops:

cliolord
10-03-2007, 20:00
No worries 8)

Daz.
10-03-2007, 20:18
Think your engine is pretty much same state of tune as mine aint it Martin? Or does your have head work, canne remember...? :?

It's amazing how hard they pull in 4th and 5th where a none ITB'd engine would start to fall off a bit these are relentless to the limiter in 5th

Thats what I want - I want it to be evil all the way to the top.

FincH
10-03-2007, 21:48
Electric Supercharger and Ebay Resistor chip remap owns all.

J o n
10-03-2007, 21:52
5th feels like 3rd on the willy when your at 5k+, it's relentless... still not found the top speed

Daz.
10-03-2007, 22:20
5th feels like 3rd on the willy when your at 5k+, it's relentless... still not found the top speed

I wanted a play with yours on that meet all those moons ago, never got the chance which was a shame, still when it gets warmer :twisted:

I just wanna see the difference in the real world, I'm never happy until I see that :D

Lee Keefy
10-03-2007, 23:35
5th feels like 3rd on the willy when your at 5k+, it's relentless... still not found the top speed

pussy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

just get on with it or would you like me to find it for you???!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Daz.
10-03-2007, 23:40
^^^ woah there nelly!

I wanna bounce it off the limiter in 5th for at least 3 miles before you can have a go :wink:

cliolord
11-03-2007, 09:00
^^^ woah there nelly!

I wanna bounce it off the limiter in 5th for at least 3 miles before you can have a go :wink:

:lol:

J o n
11-03-2007, 15:35
5th feels like 3rd on the willy when your at 5k+, it's relentless... still not found the top speed

I wanted a play with yours on that meet all those moons ago, never got the chance which was a shame, still when it gets warmer :twisted:

I just wanna see the difference in the real world, I'm never happy until I see that :D

well next met we'll have a play fella... depends if I have the verbal limiter in with me though ;) (sorry Laura! lol)

Lee, you scare me mate... pmsl

Daz.
11-03-2007, 16:57
Lee, you scare me mate... pmsl

And me! :lol: