Manifolds

[KingStromba]

Im thinking of getting a new manifold as im not sure if mine is blowing or not.

How much are good condition second hand willy or valver manifolds?

What are the differences between them?

How easy to swap over?

Does anyone have a decent one for sale?

What stainless steal ones are available?

Do Reno sell new manifolds as originally on the car and also valver ones?

[big hp]

People swap there williams fanimolds for 16v ones. Produces more torque apparantly.

Supersprint fanimolds tend to be the prefered aftermarket choice. Not sure about the k-tec ones haven't heard any feedback about them.

[J o n]

ktec is the supersprint and Winston put one on his hybrid. they seem to work real well :D

[Allan]

yeah summy has the k tek one and dam you can feel the extra torque !
when i get some cash i will be going after one :)

[Daz]

Superspring is the one I'd go for if I wanted a modded one.
Isn't that the one which glows? Heh!

[Jan]

I wish i hadn't read this - i've already been checking prices...

Looks like i know what's next on the shopping list :twisted:

[KingStromba]

Are all the stainless ones 4-2-1 though like the valver?

Id have to be a Williams geek and get a 4-1, so either an original or a custome made one.

[Jan]

Yea, i think the supersprint ones are 4-2-1

[KingStromba]

Boooooooooo


Standard it is then. Matt Brown???

[northy]

go to any custom exhaust place king - give them £300 and your standard manifold and they will make a duplicate in stainless steel.

it was the route i was going down untill i bought a prowler one.

[VIPERONE]

winston told me he losta lot of low down torque with his aftermarket job.. but made it up higher up the rev range!

[KingStromba]

Gunner, what manifold are you putting on your hybrid?

You going 4-1? Did you weld your up or was it in good nick? I like that paint you put on it, i may get mine off and paint it too.

[LotuzClioWilliams]

KS,

Just go for a Williams manifold from Renault. You know (and we all do by now) you want to keep your Willies original. Leave the modifying to the rest of us Williams owners. :wink:

[northy]

Gunner, what manifold are you putting on your hybrid?

You going 4-1? Did you weld your up or was it in good nick? I like that paint you put on it, i may get mine off and paint it too.

Hi gunner...here you go gunner....please gunner.....love you gunner....Mmm gunner lol.... :lol:

[KingStromba]

LMAo @ Northy :o

[summeh]

Stromba, get the supersprint manifold on. You will not be disapointed!

You'll be looking at 320quid for the manifold from ktec all inc... 10quid for the new manifold gasket.

Its a piss easy job to do just a bit time consuming. the old willy manifold is a dodle to get off, easier than the valver manifold.

Yes its 4-2-1 but I didn't notice any lose of power, even low down the rev range.

Im running supersprint manifold, decat, std mid section and scorpian backbox.

It sounds fantastic... lovely rasping sound about 4k rev's onwards, sounds amazing mate.

[Jan]

so no power gain? :?

[summeh]

lol yes of course.

doesn't run out of steam all the way to the rev limiter. pulls a lot better high up, and you can REALLY notice the difference going from 70 - 90 on the motorway in 5th gear... before i used to drop into 4th all the time, now i just plant my foot on the floor and im there in a few seconds, in 5th!... awesome.

[KingStromba]

The question i want to ask is:


If everyone who puts on a Valver minifold claims power gain and drivability improvements, why did Reno (who lets face it know a thing or two about bulding good engines) put a 4-1 manifold on, specially bult for the willy?

I suspect that may people who put a stainless manifold on are replacing a broken standard manifold with an unbroken stainless one and claiming the power is coming from the 4-2-1, rather than the fact that it doesnt have a hole in it.

Why would Reno fabricate a 4-1 manifold especially for the willy, if it wasnt an improvement? Its not like they didnt have loads of Valver manifolds lying around in their factories.

[LotuzClioWilliams]

Supersprint doesn't mention a manifold for the Williams on their site. Is it the same as the one for the valver?

[summeh]

yes same as the one for the valver... only diff is the angle of the mounting plate to the cat. also there is a 6 week or so wait for the williams version so i just got a valver one... you'd also then need a valver cat/decat.

[summeh]

same question i asked stromba.

check out the stats on the supersprint website... something +15nm of torque and +12bhp using a full supersprint system.

[KingStromba]

Some one answer me this:


If the 4-2-1 manifold produces more power (as ktec and supersprint claim), why would Reno go to the hassle of manufacturing a 4-1 manifold?


It is clear a 4-1 manifold holds some advantage over a 4-2-1 system as Reno spent money developing it.


Oh and Ktec talk shit. :wink:

[KingStromba]

Ok, after some digging i have found a goodish answer.


'The basic facts are that a 4-2-1 will give more low down power at the expense of a bit of top end and the 4-1 is the opposite, slightly less bottom end but more top. The problem for someone choosing which manifold to buy are not as simple as this, as the above comments are based on the manifold being built to set physics principals, that do not change, no matter who has built it.

The principals are too complex to go into fully, so below are the basics.
When you burn the fuel and it escapes from the exhaust valve is has a pressure wave, this wave has energy and it can be harnessed to suck more gas than normal from the cylinder, this is the reason for performance manifolds. These waves have a natural harmonics and pulses and you have to get these right to make them do their job. To do their job the exhaust pipe diameter has to be correct and more importantly the length of the pipes between joints.

To be correct, the length of the exhaust manifold before the gasses from the 4 cylinders come together should be about 32 to 34 inches from the head flange, assuming it is a 4-1 manifold. If it is a 4-2-1 manifold the first 2 pipes should join at between 16 to 17 inches, this is called the primary length, the next 2, the secondary pipes are the same length. The distance to the first silencer or Cat, should be the same distance away from the place the pipes all join.

So why are these distances so critical? The pulses of gas move down the pipe until there is a junction and then reverberate back up to the back of the valve, if these lengths are correct the wave pattern exerts a suction behind the valve head. If these lengths are wrong the pressure wave gets distorted and so looses it’s suction power and in some cases it can actually be worse than the standard manifold, as the waves clash against each other ruling out any suction and even providing positive pressure to hold the gas in the cylinder.

I know many will say, how is this possible, the standard manifold is not anything like the lengths you have quoted. Yes, quite true, here comes a bit of the technical stuff again. The harmonics of the gas and pipe lengths are to do with multiples and divisions of these lengths stated. Lets take 32 inches as the correct length. If you made a manifold that the 4 pipes joined at 64 inches, no problem, if you made one that they joined at 16 or 8 no problem. If the first silencer was 8 or 16 or 32 or 64 inches from where the 4 pipes join together, no problem. Therefore the standard exhaust manifold will have been designed by the manufacturers to coincide with one of these lengths, even though it does look crap.
OK, so where is the problem. The problem is that a lot of exhaust manifold manufacturers do not follow these rules often due to space limitations under the bonnet or for ease of manufacture due to complicated bends and junctions, this being particularly applicable to 4-2-1 units.

So yes on paper a 4-2-1 should give you more bottom end power but if it is not built to the correct lengths it will not and may even be worse than the standard one. A particular car that was built that no one could really improve on the standard manifold was the 205 MI16. It was made of course cast iron but was worked perfectly.

One reason I am mentioning all this is that some people were contacting us saying a manifold was available for the Saxo that was stainless steel and cheaper than our mild steel one. I rang the company up to ask details and, yes they could supply it cheaper but only if I bought 10 at one time, so the price problem disappeared. I then went on to ask technical specification as it was a 4-2-1, when given the dimensions of the lengths of pipes, I had to laugh, there was no way this manifold could work.'

So who has the measurements of the 4-2-1 supplied by Ktec / supersprint or other company? Anyone find the 4-1 measurements of the pipe joins of the standard williams one?

[MatBrown]

Yes KS,

I have one.



Mat.

[Winston]

TBH The valver fanimold is best, my car seem'd to pull better low down (and it was blowing) imo....shame its so ****ing ugly lol

Can't beat the Valver manifold...... pound for power

My S/S supersprint is getting better with mileage tho....

[VIPERONE]

Hello, gunner here.
I will be running a 16v manifold, after experiencing the extreme torque of winstons beast...
look at this this way...
to 60 mph standard to standard.. a 1.8 16v will keep up with a williams....

ugly, heavy and made of iron.... but it can be sanded and sprayed to a decent colour...
i will post more pics up later

[Winston]

I forgot its heavy as **** :shock: lol

I paid £290 for my Supersprint :shock: ..Alot of money.. but it looks nice helps me keep the weight down..temps down?...sounds a bit mad!?!?!It gives the exhaust a rally rasp sound, due to shape of the manifold..so im told? and summys rasps too.

[KingStromba]

Are the dimensions as above?

[Winston]

:?

[VIPERONE]

the weight is heavy.. something lunner would benchpress