View Full Version : willy3. 306rallye. willy2. who's your money on to 60.
willyturb0
20-02-2007, 22:33
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t24/willyturbo/SNV31309.jpg
very very close
standard for standard I would say the willy 2 by a whisker!
:lol:
BigBoreBri
20-02-2007, 22:53
Depends if you let there tyres down first... :lol:
jwarren2k2
20-02-2007, 23:44
Willy 2... just cos its got those schweet white willy wheels on it!!!
OR, the rallye cos its black!!
OR the willy 3 cos its a much better looking blue!!!
Hmmm...!
Would say willy 2 to 60, rallye to 100?!
is one of them turbo-charged :wink:
Nice cars 8)
Not sure it'll be the Rallye, if only because of the loooooong first gear.
I was never impressed by the speed of the Rallye after comfortably pulling away from my mates time and time again... only mod, Magnex backbox :)
VIPERONE
21-02-2007, 11:18
willy.
after 70mph a rallye will reel in a n/a williams
The rallye's look naff imo.
They have to be white imo! one of the only other hatches id have.
willy.
after 70mph a rallye will reel in a n/a williams
standard for standard yes, but I thought you was running cams????
I believe ben's only has slight modifications performance wise, with cams I would have expected you to leave him.
Swervin_Mervin
21-02-2007, 14:38
To 60 it will be neck and neck, std for std. I know that when you get the Xsara in to 3rd though it starts pulling like a steam train.
Modded, who knows.
VIPERONE
21-02-2007, 23:45
willy.
after 70mph a rallye will reel in a n/a williams
standard for standard yes, but I thought you was running cams????
I believe ben's only has slight modifications performance wise, with cams I would have expected you to leave him.
i dont do driving tales :wink:
Bens is running circa 185BHP and has a 6th gear. they are very quick cars which ppl underestimate...spoke to him last night...I think his car is quality.
ask ppl on the pgti forums what the top end of a pug gti 6 / rallye is.
a willy hits limiter around 135/140mph @6400
I have seen a Williams hit a limiter at 7100@ 150+mph
willy.
after 70mph a rallye will reel in a n/a williams
standard for standard yes, but I thought you was running cams????
I believe ben's only has slight modifications performance wise, with cams I would have expected you to leave him.
i dont do driving tales :wink:
Bens is running circa 185BHP and has a 6th gear. they are very quick cars which ppl underestimate...spoke to him last night...I think his car is quality.
ask ppl on the pgti forums what the top end of a pug gti 6 / rallye is.
a willy hits limiter around 135/140mph @6400
I have seen a Williams hit a limiter at 7100@ 150+mph
You dont need to do driving tales, I heard all about it! :wink: :wink:
My bro is pals with him dont forget.
:D
VIPERONE
22-02-2007, 00:49
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/rgmcdougall/PGAC%20Rolling%20Road%20Day%2027%20Jan%2007/DPP_1664.jpg
thats me, yeah, was fun to and from fcs 06!! :wink:
only had the car 2 wk then, know it lots more now and had plenty of touches to it aswell.
to be fair I think they are very close. nothing really in it.
and they both handle well, good all round.
Although I think mine likes to flame abit more than a willy when it gets 'warm'
willy.
after 70mph a rallye will reel in a n/a williams
standard for standard yes, but I thought you was running cams????
I believe ben's only has slight modifications performance wise, with cams I would have expected you to leave him.
i dont do driving tales :wink:
Bens is running circa 185BHP and has a 6th gear. they are very quick cars which ppl underestimate...spoke to him last night...I think his car is quality.
ask ppl on the pgti forums what the top end of a pug gti 6 / rallye is.
a willy hits limiter around 135/140mph @6400
I have seen a Williams hit a limiter at 7100@ 150+mph
You dont need to do driving tales, I heard all about it! :wink: :wink:
My bro is pals with him dont forget.
:D
why whats he been saying, I aint that bad!!
his car is looking good btw, although needs a good dropping :wink:
VIPERONE
22-02-2007, 01:25
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b41/Ben306/306%20rallye/Picture105.jpg
are those standard rallye rims or after market
They're aftermarket i believe, iirc they normally have the same alloys as the gti-6, ben will tell you though.
Still love the look of his car!
Sorry didnt realise you posted!
ones on the black rallye at the top are standard. they are now my track rims :wink:
White ones you have suit much better imo.
willy.
after 70mph a rallye will reel in a n/a williams
standard for standard yes, but I thought you was running cams????
I believe ben's only has slight modifications performance wise, with cams I would have expected you to leave him.
i dont do driving tales :wink:
Bens is running circa 185BHP and has a 6th gear. they are very quick cars which ppl underestimate...spoke to him last night...I think his car is quality.
ask ppl on the pgti forums what the top end of a pug gti 6 / rallye is.
a willy hits limiter around 135/140mph @6400
I have seen a Williams hit a limiter at 7100@ 150+mph
You dont need to do driving tales, I heard all about it! :wink: :wink:
My bro is pals with him dont forget.
:D
why whats he been saying, I aint that bad!!
his car is looking good btw, although needs a good dropping :wink:
Not gonna put it on the forum for fear of incriminating others.
Apparently tho it is 175 bhp, when he had it RR'd last week.
Came up in conversation as my brother thought you was Pikie due to the plate.
shit that didnt make sense did it!!
Its too late for this! lol
As above he was discussin it with me as he thought Gunner was Pikie due to the similar plate, he also mentioned you had it rr'd and it produced 175 bhp. Nowt bad, he said your handles well on the koni's, he's after a set now, the young pup!! lol
VIPERONE
22-02-2007, 02:20
181bhp
oooo, not too much more than mine. Got 177 2 weeks ago on the RR.
Would be a good comparison......
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k17/nykola1812/CRIM0014-2.jpg
****waits for ben to reply***** :arrow: :arrow:
VIPERONE
22-02-2007, 02:31
:roll:
in a valver?
:roll:
in a valver?
PMSL
yeah my log book says the same as yours gunner! lol
your theory that cammed valvers only do willy pace is totally shot with my results, oh well never mind oracle. :wink:
lol
VIPERONE
22-02-2007, 02:37
who's rr was it?
you got verniers on now?
it always did have verniers. It was porblems with my chip I had ages ago.
Mini sport RR.
Happy with the result as it was 2/3 bhp less last time, but Rob's few tweeks and cleaning gave it that extra i think.
Not bad for an F7P!!
VIPERONE
22-02-2007, 02:44
fair play not known any valvers with bhp up there even with cams..his rr has been used for a wc rr day before..
:!:
I do have quite a few mods though, the head work has to be accounted for also.
Just had a more recent RR as it is going up for sale in the next 3 months, so wanted a recent one to go with the paperwork.
VIPERONE
22-02-2007, 02:48
what you putting t up at?
aftermarket ones!!
so what are they then
what you putting t up at?
Not sure, I'll be more concerned about it going to a loving home after all the money has been spent on it tbh. Not really thought about it as was hoping to not have to sell it, although I no once I get a cossie it will never get driven and spend its life livin on the drive :roll: hence seems no point in keeping it.
rolling road figures mean pish...if it runs 14 sec 1/4s though it will be proven..... :wink:
thats me, yeah, was fun to and from fcs 06!! :wink:
only had the car 2 wk then, know it lots more now and had plenty of touches to it aswell.
to be fair I think they are very close. nothing really in it.
and they both handle well, good all round.
Although I think mine likes to flame abit more than a willy when it gets 'warm'
as proved the other week wen we had a quick blat lol.
altho the engine in mine is supposed to be cammed....im still not convinced tbh and iv now put my ecu on it to take the redline up a few notches hehe still fuk all in it..
never really saw any flames tho. tbh....apart from in the reflection off ur paint ;)
lol@ minisport rollers. sorry.bin there done them..std valver.137 @ wheels..never went back lol. 122 at kens.
Northy's made some wicked power there too and at over 7k :? ... tbh from the RR day we had there I'd say they dont know what they are doing as Rob's car made less but was as quick as Northy's at the time... plus they had stock ITR's making 210-220bhp.
Must say RE seemed bang on the money and Ken is a ****ing genius!
Waay back when....the results at RE seemed pretty accurate..never went to the minisport one and tbh I won't bother r/r ing any of my cars again...
agree with that Mart, no point, I'll only do it when I spend money on mods as I'd expect a before and after anyway... only RR I've had recently was for free at Ric Woods, results are enthusiastic imo though lol
As I said, I had a recent RR done to put with the paperwork for when i sell it, as usual it starts a debate.
As for the accuracy of their RR, it is accurate up to 1000BHP, ask Wayne Schofield!! He is a friend of Robs and also used to use their "accurate" RR before he got his own.
Rob is a personal friend of mine and lee's and has been for many years, his knowledge is vast and he has been doing this for many years. He has tuned many cars for lee and friends of ours over the years and every single person who has been to him are happy.
We do also know Ken at RE, he has fcuked over a few of our friends also! and knows his stuff that well that he has sent many a car out of there not set up properly fuelling wise. I nor Lee would EVER let Ken at RE touch our cars, they are good for machining work or parts and that is where it ends for us.
My results of my RR are accurate and realistic for the modifications I have. It made 176 on Waynes RR. I knew exactly what you lot would say, hence I didnt post this up earlier, just cos its not a 2ltr doesnt mean it cant make good power, and this prooves that point.
VIPERONE
22-02-2007, 12:33
post the graph up wouldn't mind a look
As I said, I had a recent RR done to put with the paperwork for when i sell it, as usual it starts a debate.
As for the accuracy of their RR, it is accurate up to 1000BHP, ask Wayne Schofield!! He is a friend of Robs and also used to use their "accurate" RR before he got his own.
Rob is a personal friend of mine and lee's and has been for many years, his knowledge is vast and he has been doing this for many years. He has tuned many cars for lee and friends of ours over the years and every single person who has been to him are happy.
We do also know Ken at RE, he has fcuked over a few of our friends also! and knows his stuff that well that he has sent many a car out of there not set up properly fuelling wise. I nor Lee would EVER let Ken at RE touch our cars, they are good for machining work or parts and that is where it ends for us.
My results of my RR are accurate and realistic for the modifications I have. It made 176 on Waynes RR. I knew exactly what you lot would say, hence I didnt post this up earlier, just cos its not a 2ltr doesnt mean it cant make good power, and this prooves that point.
no ones having a go Nyk, just seems a little optimistic. I've been there before and the results on the day ALL read high, so while the equipment is accurate it's only as accurate as the RR operator imo.
As for Ken's tuning ability I don't know and can't comment, but as an RR opperator I cant fault him, stock cars made around stock power.
Only real way to know if it's as quick as a Williams is race one, I never trust RR figures for this reason.
Prowler manifold & green panel filter only. Even had the cat on.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y107/northy_com/d6200738.jpg
Prowler manifold, blueflame decat, cat back stainless steel exhaust and green panel filter.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y107/northy_com/8a37ae50.jpg
Same mods as above but at Hill Power rollers last year.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y107/northy_com/N340LRG3.jpg
now put up the other one from the mini sport place lol
VIPERONE
22-02-2007, 12:56
lol
aftermarket ones!!
so what are they then
rare lightweight magnesium bk racing rims
see kens still got my plate as high score or summat lol ;)
waynes also used kens rollers.....ex grv.....class wins in all diff series' set up on these rollers at grv, for many many years....thats where he mapped mine....hes used countless r/r s all over the country as he didnt have his own..doesnt mean they accurate.just he was goin somewhere local to the guy thats payin.
not disputing anything other than the accuracy of minisports rollers nyk. altho iv had a few disagreements with daniel there, as iv explained before..only thing they are excellent at at minisport is taking ur money off ya.
and thats speakin from not only mine, but my dads experiences b4 me..yes wen it first opened lol. they sell some good stuff at dear prices, never have anything in stock that shud be. etc etc etc.
that's the one Northy lol. sorry, but the RR op that day was absolutely clueless, he had to redo Rob's about 2 or 3 times as it was well under power from what I remember, yet was identical to Northy's on the road.
which ....if u cast ur mind back....is the reason i didnt go lol.
my rolling road from last month at awesome gti. Although Im convinced they are out! as I thought there was more transmission loss than that from fly to wheels, but we ran a standard 182 clio with its only mod being a panel filter, came out with 182 bhp which is about right (182ps standard is 179bhp I think)
http://www.awesome-gti.co.uk/rollingroad/graph/rr.pgac_27.01.07/walton1.jpg
http://www.awesome-gti.co.uk/rollingroad/graph/rr.pgac_27.01.07/walton2.jpg
To be honest I think it means sod all, end of the day its what its like on the road!! and the drivers abilities. Friend of mine has a s1 106 1.6 16v rallye running 165bhp and weighting 700kg on a short box and it leaves me, plus he really can drive, he was pushing evos around mallory!
I still aint 100% in mine since my bump so still need to build my confidence on a few track days, and try and get it under 1000kg :D
I'm not quite understanding northy's Hill Power graph. Its reading 132- I presume this is wheel power, and at Mini sport you read 134 wheel power. So not that much difference in a year really???
I secondly dont understand how it can be claimed that a RR tuner is inaccurate.??!!? The rollers are calibratined to take the reading, hence corrected figure. This is beyond the operators control??!
I will try an post graph up later although I dont have a scanner.
don't know enough about how these RR's are setup and operated, but trust me, they were clueless... what Williams also rev's to 7k+ on standard ECU? lol
on that same day all cars were making Max Power fantasy bhp, 182's were making over 190bhp as stock and we all know they dont... ITR's making 200+ at the wheels etc... was just a joke, shame my car blew up on the way really, I honestly think if Northy's was making 177bhp mine would have been hitting near 200 pony's
cliolord
22-02-2007, 21:01
[quote="nyk"][quote=.GUNNER.]
a willy hits limiter around 135/140mph @6400
I have seen a Williams hit a limiter at 7100@ 150+mph
....Ok, i am confused with all the quotes above now :lol: but basically, does the car actually hit the limiter in 5th like the other gears? My speedo read 139mph in 5th at 6,500rpm here or there on standard limiter. It didnt bounce the limiter, it just sat 100% on it and would not move another bit at all period. Wondered if anyone has actually bounced off it or does the map some how know not to do that :roll:
My Williams will reasonably easily bounce off the limiter in fifth. Just as violently as it does it in the other gears. I think it registers as 138mph at the usual 6600rpm.
aye its the same headbutting the screen inducing cut in in evry gear.
mine std would hit the limiter quite easily.....even easier after the re-map... but its a lot softr cut in.
and it was mine that gunner saw at 150+ at 7100/7200 rpm........from the passenger seat lol
Back on topic>>>>>
I have tried to photograph my RR graph, but it is unclear and not readable while trying to get the whole graph in, I do not have a scanner. However, for anyone that wish’s to see it I shall bring it to the next meet.
I don’t however honestly think it is worth continuing this debate, as in all due respect, no matter what power my car makes, half of you will not accept that good power can be made out of a 1.8 with the right modifications no matter what it is. I don’t think the people who have claimed my results are inaccurate even know to the extent of the modifications my engine/car has. For those of you that don’t know I will make it clear….
My engine is still relatively new, and was fully rebuilt only 13K ago just before Lee bought it for me. This was done with up rated rods and bolts. My cylinder head has been polished and ported, with Kent fast road cams and pullies. The manifold was matched to the head also late last year. I have a lightened and balanced fly wheel, plus the usual stainless, decat, filter and remap, with a current limiter of 7.5K.
Last time this debate was brought up it was asked by northy what would be expected of an F7P with cams/headwork and iirc it was 2live that answered around 170 bhp. Yet mine at 177 is so unbelievable and unrealistic on a new engine. As I have said previously, my car was RR’d last year by Wayne when it produced 176, I at the time thought this was incorrect and took it to minisport 1 week later where it produced 174. These graphs have been mislaid in our recent house move, and I therefore had it done again 2 weeks ago to have an up to date power graph to go with the paperwork for when I sell the car.
I don’t want to go on and on about it, but will make my point clear in the fact that a lot of time money and effort has been spent on my car to get it where it is now at, which I personally think is pretty damn good out of an F7P. Both Wayne and Rob have told me my power and torque figures are realistic. I have every faith in the accuracy of both RR’s my car has been on. As I have said anyone wishing to see the graph in person is more than welcome to, but as I have said I see it pointless to continue this debate as it will go on and on forever! :roll:
Dancliovalver
23-02-2007, 08:32
[quote="nyk"]Back on topic>>>>>
I have tried to photograph my RR graph, but it is unclear and not readable while trying to get the whole graph in, I do not have a scanner. However, for anyone that wish’s to see it I shall bring it to the next meet.
I don’t however honestly think it is worth continuing this debate, as in all due respect, no matter what power my car makes, half of you will not accept that good power can be made out of a 1.8 with the right modifications no matter what it is. I don’t think the people who have claimed my results are inaccurate even know to the extent of the modifications my engine/car has. For those of you that don’t know I will make it clear….
My engine is still relatively new, and was fully rebuilt only 13K ago just before Lee bought it for me. This was done with up rated rods and bolts. My cylinder head has been polished and ported, with Kent fast road cams and pullies. The manifold was matched to the head also late last year. I have a lightened and balanced fly wheel, plus the usual stainless, decat, filter and remap, with a current limiter of 7.5K.
Last time this debate was brought up it was asked by northy what would be expected of an F7P with cams/headwork and iirc it was 2live that answered around 170 bhp. Yet mine at 177 is so unbelievable and unrealistic on a new engine. As I have said previously, my car was RR’d last year by Wayne when it produced 176, I at the time thought this was incorrect and took it to minisport 1 week later where it produced 174. These graphs have been mislaid in our recent house move, and I therefore had it done again 2 weeks ago to have an up to date power graph to go with the paperwork for when I sell the car.
quote]
must agree with you there, i have the same setup when mine was a valver minus the flywheel and i think i was making 172bhp, felt pretty good for a valver 8)
hmmm a 40 bhp increase is still a hell of a lot for the minimal work done tbh.
re the old topic...yes a worked, pistons/l&b, cams etc etc etc wud be 170 ish id say.
seems u expect us all to be mind readers too. with just cams n chip the 170 is v.v. debateable. add a few more mods...becomes less so.
but again..put these mods on a 2.0 and the increase would be even more.
how does ur car drive?? is this on the engine ur havin trouble with or the one in ur car now??
VIPERONE
23-02-2007, 11:50
dan what did yours run down the 1/4 mile?
hmmm a 40 bhp increase is still a hell of a lot for the minimal work done tbh.
re the old topic...yes a worked, pistons/l&b, cams etc etc etc wud be 170 ish id say.
seems u expect us all to be mind readers too. with just cams n chip the 170 is v.v. debateable. add a few more mods...becomes less so.
but again..put these mods on a 2.0 and the increase would be even more.
how does ur car drive?? is this on the engine ur havin trouble with or the one in ur car now??
fair enough I presumed the majority of you who know me would have know what work my car has had. And I have no doubt that similar modifications on a 2ltr would produce more. But as I've said its not bad going for a F7P.
My car drives fine, the usual idle issues, but not half as bad as some I have seen. My idle tends to waver occassionally just between about 700 and 1100 rpm. But nothing major and as I've said its no where near as bad as some I have seen. The car is my daily drive, and I drive it round at 30!! lol Never had any issues with it in the 2 years I have owned it other than a faulty starter motor. So no complaints on that front.
The one we were having problems with cam seals is the other car.
:)
Is that due to them being the wrong size Nyk? If so i had the same problem!
Dancliovalver
23-02-2007, 13:35
dan what did yours run down the 1/4 mile?
lol its a real shame i never managed to get it on the strip before i started masicaring it to put my bottom end lol, couldnt see it being too impressive tho lol, it seemed to run wank before i took it off the road
hows urs comin on anyways?
Dancliovalver
23-02-2007, 13:39
lol sorry got it totally wrong then it wasnt 172 i was makin it was 162bhp :oops:
still felt pretty quick tho :lol:
Is that due to them being the wrong size Nyk? If so i had the same problem!
aye, both head sets we got came with 40mm seals, but thanks to the help from Stan, we have determined it needs the 42mm.
:)
Lee Keefy
23-02-2007, 18:31
Is that due to them being the wrong size Nyk? If so i had the same problem!
aye, both head sets we got came with 40mm seals, but thanks to the help from Stan, we have determined it needs the 42mm.
:)
for some reason the three headsets ive bought so far have had 40mm seals in them,dont know if thats the most common one or i'm orderin them for the wrong year...
do they vary by year anyone????
I think they do Lee, I bought a headset and a second hand head from gsf and the seals were too small for the new head but were the same size as my old ones, i ended up having to order mine from renault direct!
it always did have verniers. It was porblems with my chip I had ages ago.
Mini sport RR.
Happy with the result as it was 2/3 bhp less last time, but Rob's few tweeks and cleaning gave it that extra i think.
Not bad for an F7P!!
Can you pm me the info on mini sport please? price and location... I'm not convinced mines as quick now I've had all the work done on the car...
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