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WeZ01y
09-05-2005, 06:40
After having the clutch changed on Friday, was great getting into car with a really light pedal for a change! After driving it, on Saturday night i noticed a whining noise! Thought, ah gearbox might just need topping up with gearbox oil.
Was whining in any gear, when in netural and slowing down so sounded as though it was the diff bearing.
On Sunday morning i got car on lift and drained all fluid out of box and it looked fine, other than being black like it alway is, right amount and no bits or anything!
Put fresh in and its still doing it! Had a look on lift again and turned wheels and it doesnt sound too healthy when i spin either one of the wheels...
FECKOR! It started doing it more and more now :(
Does anyone know if it is possible to replace the diff bearing or what it possibly might be? Its a noise from the gearbox and does it when slowing down in neutral, weather clutch is engaged or not, and speeding up!

How much is a new box from renault?

Like i said the clutch was changed to the uprated one from k-tec and its fantastic, pedal really light and fantastic when launching. Just the noise is driving me mad and dont really want to drive the car anymore until i get it sorted.

feckor!

northy
09-05-2005, 07:43
j3ned can get you a new box from reno for £550 mate.

WeZ01y
09-05-2005, 07:50
550?! FECK ME! i thought i heard KS saying it was only 300 smakers from reno for one...

VIPERONE
09-05-2005, 07:58
u ruled out drive shafts?

WeZ01y
09-05-2005, 08:00
Not yet mate...
Am going to be phoning the garage that did the clutch and see if they can have a look at it.... Would the driveshaft cause this problem though?

2 live
09-05-2005, 12:37
oil shouldnt have been black tho mate........theyd have to put new oil in to do the clutch

i take it they put a new release bearing etc in too

WeZ01y
09-05-2005, 12:42
Yea they put new pressure plate, release bearing and clutch in. Its the guys that TheJesus used to get his fixed recommended by clean16v! Top blokes! It looks to be just coincidence that its started doing it. Am taking it down to them again this afternoon so they can hopefully have a look at it...
I'm sure ill be able to get it repaired at a gearbox specialist since the gearbox is fine other than that. If i take it to get fixed then ill ask em to give it a once over as well at extra charge. Might as well since its in bits.
The guys there might even be able to have a look at it so dont know yet.
Anyone know of any good gearbox specilists around wigan or warrington area?

KingStromba
09-05-2005, 12:56
My gerabox isnt too happy right now, hope ill be able to get to fcs,

MatBrown
09-05-2005, 18:15
j3ned can get you a new box from reno for £550 mate.

Think you'll find it's £600.

That's what i just paid for Malcs new one and he had all the same symptoms as you Wez.



Mat.

KingStromba
09-05-2005, 18:24
How much to fit?

MatBrown
09-05-2005, 18:34
That's what i was doing last weekend!

Took us 18 hours, did Gearbox, Clutch, Cambelt and pulleys.



Mat.

WeZ01y
09-05-2005, 19:32
Well after some diagnosing its definately the diff bearing in the gearbox thats going. Am getting the box taken out and taking it to a specialist to get it recond. Once its recond the box is going back in to see how it is.
Bit of a bummer but has to be done. What winds me up is the fact that the box was fine before the clutch went it. As soon as it came out of the garage it started whining! GRRRR! :evil:

WeZ01y
10-05-2005, 10:59
Any one know where i can get a hold of a new box or one that is fully working but lowish milage? I know theres one on ebay but its got 70k on it and if mines going at 70k miles then dont want to be in same situation. Even though mine might be a one off. Paul from inficar has a valver one but its not a williams and want to keep car standard.

Its going to cost £250+VAT to get all bearings and seals replaced at a specialist, its the cheapest ive found it for!

Any help would be geartly appreciated and ill buy you a pint at FCS if you know where i could get low milage working willy gearbox for under £200 smakers.

northy
10-05-2005, 11:01
i'd save up and get one from reno mate...

but try pm j3ned on here and see if he hasa second hand one avaliable.

WeZ01y
10-05-2005, 11:06
Its £600+vat from reno! cant really afford that at the moment and i need the car for work purposes as well.

KingStromba
10-05-2005, 11:13
I agree, get a new one if you plan to keep the car.


Put in a second hand one and it could go again in a week, thats false economy.

WeZ01y
10-05-2005, 11:20
If i can get a cheapish new one that would have a 12 month warranty with it then i would definately go for it! But renault have quoted me £600 + VAT for one and its a 2 week wait. I really cant wait that long at the moment. Have pm'd j3ned. If i can get a hold of a slightly cheaper new one for around £400/500 with warranty then ill snatch their hand off. Other than that it might look like ill have to get it recond. I suppose the recond place offers a 12 month warranty with the bearings they will replace, but then again like you say it could fail on something else, but thats a risk that anyone takes with anything you do to a car.

KingStromba
10-05-2005, 11:22
Get a small bank loan.

to repay it will only be 20 or so quid a month.

WeZ01y
10-05-2005, 11:24
Good point i suppose and probably would do but its a two fooking week wait for this gearbox from renault since its apparantly got to come from france! Car really cant be off the road for that long.

2 live
10-05-2005, 11:43
im sure they can get a priority order thing on it to rush it thru mate....costs extra but it can be done

id def go for a new un.....touch wood the 2nd hand 1 i got off ebay seems to be ok still...........for now

j3ned
10-05-2005, 12:06
youve a choice really mate - i can supply you one which will fit no problem but the ratio's will be slightly different.....not much though - in fact it will be hardly noticeable £225 used - 3 month guarantee

Brand new Genuine williams box - code JC5 014 - 7701352174 £475 + VAT 12 month guarantee

WeZ01y
10-05-2005, 12:08
How many miles is on the one thats going for 225?
does the one for 475 come with a renault 12 month warranty?

j3ned
10-05-2005, 12:20
mileage is about 56k - it is used but i will put a 3 month guarantee on it - if it goes wrong i will swap it but its rare they do. The lads on here know me and know im OK - so dont be worryin about fittin a used one. It will save you a few quid as well. The Renault one is a genuine one and will come with a 12 month guarantee - i have contacts to get new parts ridiculously cheap

WeZ01y
10-05-2005, 12:24
Ah good man... check your pm's matey

BigBoreBri
10-05-2005, 19:08
Just thought id post this up....

Now im not 100% sure on this but a few people i know have commented on it, if the right had engine mount isn't lined up properly then it puts extra load on the outer driveshaft causing it to throw driveshafs or perhaps in this case the diff bearings...

After looking through dialogys i know reno have a special tool that goes between the slots in the engine mount to line it up, although ive not had to do one of these before im not sure how "out of line" you could get it by hand... :?

Anyways, just thought id post it incase it helps anyone! 8)

WeZ01y
11-05-2005, 06:18
cheers for advice matey... Car is in workshop at the moment. I'm helping a mate with it and checking everything. First things first, looking at the garage that did it, they didnt put the ground strap on properly, the bolt that holds it in was in by about 2 threads so the strap was intermittently making contact! And the second thing was that the bolts that mount the gearbox to the engine assembly where only hand tight! hmmmmmm bit worrying but what can you do.
Will check the right hand engine mount tonight, we got everything off that we needed to, now its just a case of dropping the subframe to get the box out. Then its off to a recon place to get the bearings changed. Am going down this route since i have some kind of a warranty, even though its not much of one its still a little more than if i would buy a second hand one. At least i know my box is fine other than the diff bearing, all bearings and seals are being replaced just incase.
Should be back on road by early next week hopefully!

WeZ01y
12-05-2005, 06:54
Well after taking the box out last night at 9:30pm! I was due in work at 5:30am as well! We had a little play with it whilst it was out of the engine. It didnt feel that bad, it sounded bad at high RPM but nothing overly noticable. We decided to have a look at the box before i took it in the morning.

Opened box up and had a look. Everything seemed to be in perfect working order at first! Selector and 5th gears was like new and almost perfect.
We took all of the assembly for 5th gear and the selector out and undid the main half of the casing to reveal all the innerds.
Looking at the main layshaft and selector all seemed to be perfect as well!
There is a little, as i put it "gold metal ring with only 4 teeth on 3 sides" which helps the selector when it comes to select 2nd gear from first. I have noticed that there is a minor problem with these boxes that when giving it death in 1st and changing to 2nd very very quickly can cause the gearbox to pinch, not grind as such, but you certainly hear it grauch! (If its a word!) This only happens if you bring the clutch up too quickly and can cause it to just catch on this pinion gear. Mine was every so slightly worn, looking at it you cant tell until you compare it to another one further up on the 3rd/4th one that isnt worn. The teeth are not as pointy, but im talking about micro mm here nothing major! This is going to be replaced, very easy to do, and should help with that matter :) But that isnt the cause of the whining from general movement of the wheels, at first i thought it would have been the diff bearing. It isnt!

Theres bearing's on both ends of both layshafts in the box, the main one with all the main gears on it has a bearing at the end which, after removing the layshaft, was badly worn. This had shit loads of indentations on the metal shim that is the base of the bearing, so its a new bearing that is approximately 8cm in diameter. We got the bearing out perfectly, after alot of hard work. and the box is now nice and clean and ready for a new bearnig to go in. All the other bearings are spot on! No wear at all on any of them, even the diff bearing was perfect (im not talking about minor wear or any visual signs of marking on the bearing plates, there was nothing. Odd!
I wonder why the bearing went in the first place, must have just been on its way out eh?

Anyhoo its going to cost me about £15 for a new bearing and a seal. Thats going to be picked up today, hopefully! Then we can re-assemble the box and get it back in the car.
That should then last quite some time *touch wood*.
All that in about 4 hours! Was great fun to see inside the gearbox, i would have thought it would have been alot more complicated.
The guy that is helping me do it is quality and really knows his stuff, a good mate of mine.

Ill get some pictures of the gearbox for everyone if you want to see whats inside it. And stages of re-assemly.
:D

northy
12-05-2005, 07:33
good lad wez...im impressed with your feedback pal.

wish you luck with this mate...and see u in two weeks.

J o n
12-05-2005, 09:23
hmm, sounds like an ideal person to do gearbox rebuilds this mate of yours... wonder if we got some gears etc machined we could have some super strong boxes :D

KingStromba
12-05-2005, 09:29
Jesus is the new Northy. Pretends he knows nothing about engines, then lets it slip by talking all technical for a bit, before realising his mistake and pretending not to know again. :wink:


They do it so 2live does all the mechanical stuff free for them.


Jesus - 'Yeah Northy, i notice the phase attentuation manifold was knocking the release bearing and causing massive heat constriction problems when i measured it, and the left cooling fan switch was running 4.3 degrees too hot'

Northy - 'Shut up man 2live's coming'

Jesus - 'Errrrr....yeah Jon.......it wont start, anyway ill leave it with you, here are the keys, me and Northy just off for some breakfast'

WeZ01y
12-05-2005, 09:34
PMSL!
I just learn quick thats all. ;)
Yea hes a pretty damd good guy! But he was on holiday for two weeks and i was completely stuck with no car, and cannot really go that long without it so had to find an alternate. Cheers for all help Jon!
He has rebuilt caterpiller and JCB gearboxes that are fooking huge in the past so it was easy for him really.
This bearing looks to be a special order since the tapers on it are custom for the gearbox LOL! So it might be a while until i get one :'( Waiting for a response from the manufacturer and a few suppliers on the lead time and if they are still available *fingers crossed*
I have rang a few gearbox specialists and they have all said same thing, we will have to order it from the manufacturer.
Just hope its not going to be a few weeks!

WeZ01y
12-05-2005, 09:41
Oh Jon! We should get in touch with Quaife and see if they will sell the uprated gear kits for us!
http://www.quaife.co.uk/products/gearkits.htm
They dont list renault but surely they could do a JC5 gear set for it :D i think i may have come across a manufacturer that will sell the shot peened gears. Will see if i can get more info first tho!

WeZ01y
12-05-2005, 12:14
HELL YEAH! After alot of searching around i have got a hold of a bearing!
Its £22 for one :D
Just an FYI if you ever need any bearings for gearboxes.
Use
B.R.T Bearings in Chorley! A colleague at my work found one for me.
I have just phones Renault and they can get a hold of them but its a week wait, fook that!

Just another quick note, all bearings for Renault gearboxes are made by SNR in france.
Should have gearbox back in car tonight :D

J o n
12-05-2005, 12:22
Jesus is the new Northy. Pretends he knows nothing about engines, then lets it slip by talking all technical for a bit, before realising his mistake and pretending not to know again. :wink:


They do it so 2live does all the mechanical stuff free for them.


Jesus - 'Yeah Northy, i notice the phase attentuation manifold was knocking the release bearing and causing massive heat constriction problems when i measured it, and the left cooling fan switch was running 4.3 degrees too hot'

Northy - 'Shut up man 2live's coming'

Jesus - 'Errrrr....yeah Jon.......it wont start, anyway ill leave it with you, here are the keys, me and Northy just off for some breakfast'

LOL, nah, I really know feck all about cars mate, I know enough to usually have a good educated guess as to what is wrong, but that's as far as it goes! hehe

MatBrown
12-05-2005, 16:47
Good work Wez,

I might have to start stripping down all these boxes i've got lying around.



Mat.

J o n
12-05-2005, 16:58
Matt, if you could get a Cup gearbox to work on a Williams I think you could make your 1st million £££ pal, after speaking to a few people in the know they will work if converted to mechanical speedo... or willy to electric... similar ratio and final drive on them, plus strong internals i'm told.

WeZ01y
16-05-2005, 13:13
After getting the box back in the car after replacing the layshaft bearing it had fixed the problem. We had got the box back in the car on Sunday afternoon at 3:30pm.
Now for the funny bit!
Did about 200 miles on sunday to make sure it was ok. Was on way to pub at around 9:30pm with some mates and 212 miles on the box after putting it back in.
Was in 5th gear doing about 50 in a 40 limit :roll: There was a speed camera coming up so i started to slow down. at about 45 mph the car just jerked slightly. As though i had tapped the brakes. immediately i put the clutch in. I put it in neutral and brought the clutch up slowly! As soon as i did the car just locked up. It was as tho i hit a tree! The car jerked forward that hard i hit the steering wheel with my head, now got a bruise on the noggin! LMAO.
After going from 45 - 0 in 0.2 seconds i pulled over with clutch in.
Now even tho the car is in netural, its stuck in 1st gear! If i start the engine and bring the clutch up it moves as tho its in 1st. Tried selecting other gears, can select all apart from 1st, which shouldnt happen! Obvoisly couldnt use the gears i select since its stuck in 1st.
Box has to come back out and have to have a look at the selectors and their detents at the end to find out why its selected 1st whilst in 5th!
Which you dont want since it could blow up the engine!
GRRR!
what i cant understand is it was fine for 200+ miles!
Hmmm,
A new box might be imminent, all depends on how things turn out this week when we take it out again :(
If no luck at end of this week im going to have to get a new one from reno.

J3ned,
Any ideas how soon you can get a new box from reno for? If its going to be a long wait im going to have to arrange something else.

J o n
16-05-2005, 13:23
i'd get a cheaper one of Eboay or something, but it depends what power your running and if you plan on putting anymore through it. new one is false economy imo, i'll just throw valver ones in from now on... if I keep it that long that is...

WeZ01y
16-05-2005, 13:26
Well ive just had someone say that they have a willy3 box fully recond with new synchros too and they want 350 for it! hmmm im tempted! Just waiting for them to get back to me.

J o n
16-05-2005, 13:33
sounds like a good prince, ONLY if they have the paper work and proof it has only just been recon'd and has not been used much since. other than that it does sound a very good price matey.

2 live
16-05-2005, 16:39
lol..iv got a new ish recond unit.only done bout 10k miles since re-con.............pity its all smashed up lol.....go 2nd hand mate.failing that get a new un from matt or reno

WeZ01y
17-05-2005, 09:12
Well in one evening and starting from 8pm... we got the box out and stripped down in about 3 hours :)
The problem was the diff locking nut had worked it self loose. So the diff was free to move and put pressure against the layshaft so causing it to go into first gear :shock: !!!!
Getting a new diff bearing since its picked up a little bit of shit and a new locking nut.
Now...
Anyone with diolgys or autodata, can you tell me what tourque setting should be applied to the diff nut in the gearbox?
As soon as the parts arrive we will rebuild the box and put it all back together in an evening :D
At least its not a new box time eh? :)