Megane overhaul with headwork into valver

[jwarren2k2]

Hi guys,

Basically, this year im on uni placement at an engine remanufacturers in reading (Clifford Cox Engineering - www.rollingroadtune.co.uk).
I am hoping to carry out a project while im here and have the use of the facilities. I'm sure you would all do the same!

Im looking to get a megane (or williams) engine, overhaul it, do head work and put it in a valver. Bearing in mind this is going to be a cheap conversion as I'm a student with not too much cash, i intend on spending little money as i only have to pay for parts, and i can even get those cheap. I shall only be using the standard rods, pistons and valves (unless they're badly damaged in the engine i propose to buy)
Obviously all cleaning and measuring goes without saying, otherwise my plans are..

Replace piston rings, hone bores, bearings and shells, full gasket set, beed blast the valves if they're not bent, recut the valve seats to 3 angles and face valves, lap valves, gas flow the head (using flow bench), new tappets (cam followers) and cambelt + tensioners. Then paint, put back together, fit engine and remap on the RR.

I won't be able to afford cams+pullies this year, but apart from that, from the above work, are there any reccomendations of things i should/shouldn't be thinking about?

One of my concerns is this dizzy cap positioning, it has to be moved doesn't it? I take it the rest (starter and mounts etc) are the same positions as the valver/willy ones, as its essentially the same engine?

Would i get a big advantage from an aftermarket ECU (DTA or Emerald as we are dealers of them), or would i be just as well off getting my ECU remapped. If standard ECU is a good idea (baring in mind cost is key), should i use the valver (M/N reg, williams 2/3, or the megane one (would this use coil?)

What sort of power would u expect from my description?

I know this is a long post, and I know i can ask the guys at work, but they're not too hot on these particular engines, so i thought i'd get a mix of opinions between you and them!


I really appreciate your input.


James

[jwarren2k2]

*EDIT* (imagine how good it would be if there was a button for editing!)

I shall also get the crank re-ground, possibly lightened and balanced crank and fly, depending on funds as we don't actually do that in-house.

[cliolord]

Hi James. On a standard Williams unit with a gas flowed cylinder head you are probably looking at between 155-160hp (Craig may confirm this or state otherwise :lol:)

Advantages from additional engine management are not worth the money unless you are running high lift cams and/or throttle bodies tbh. From advice from a few people, the standard Williams ECU will be fine without an additional map although you will see some gains with a new map. You could think about skimming the cylinder head on the limit although I didn't have this done on my cylinder head incase the head has to come off in the future.

As an idea, I run a Williams engine, stock williams ECU, gas flowed & ported head, cams and pulleys. Estimation for power output sits between 175-180 before remap. I'm sure Craig will see this thread soon and give you better info, he's more key'd into it 8)

[cliolord]

sorry didn't realise that you were using the valver head? You are probably looking at around 145hp after gas flowed head and 2.0 bottom end? The Inlet valves on the 16v head are smaller and the cam shafts have slightly smaller lobes

[jwarren2k2]

huh?! its the megane head, i'll be getting a complete engine, and all the work will be on the megane engine!

maybe i should reword the title, atleast i would if there was an edit button!! :evil:

[MAXIBOY]

megane head is better but i,m not sure on the inlet side of things. better ports bigger valves etc. needs machining for dizzy but this is fairly easy or so i believe. its better when using throttle bodies but not sure when using megane inlet manifold and throttle body

[jwarren2k2]

how about valver inlet + body, as i'll have one of these?

[MAXIBOY]

the inlet side of the head is different. it has smaller ports thus the inlet manifold is different i think. dont think inlets are interchangeable between heads but correct me if i ,m wrong (ben stan) thus megane head megane inlet

[jwarren2k2]

is it possible to port the megane head to match the valver one?

[MAXIBOY]

the megane head has smaller ports and bigger valves than the 1.8 head. but it flows better than the 1.8 head. ports on the 1.8 were to big really. when they did the megane they made smaller ports but higher air speed so flows better or more efficiently than the 1.8 or williams head (think i,m right stan ben)

[stan]

in short, higher gas speed....better low engine-speed torque.

as for using the megane head without further modifications such as t.b's, I really wouldnt bother. I done this conversion about 3 years ago (full megane engine into clio), and it really isnt worth it. you have to arse about with adapters for the TPS, and its nigh on impossible to get it to read correctly for every throttl position...this results in rough patches. It can be done, but I wouldnt bother.

I'd use a williams head, and fettle that.

[jwarren2k2]

i appreciate ur honesty there stan. Would it be worth using the valver head as i'll have one spare (if all goes to plan), or is it better to source a williams head?

Also, incase i come into some money, can you supply an inlet manifold for throttle bodies, if so, how much please?

[MAXIBOY]

yes he can supply inlets and throttle bodies can stan. if buying a complete megane engine you could use the inlet valves in 1.8 head to get willy spec head and have it worked at the same time. see stan for details

[moggs]

I put the megane engine into my clio a couple of months ago and have had a few problems with the tps like stan mentiond, (He sorted it for me) it's not too much bother and it does go very well now (standard) but i am looking to remove the inlet and throttle body to get around the tps prob.

Is a good project though as you will be doing it all yourself as i did and i learn't alot. Plus if you are going to be going for tb's in the future the megane head is better.

Choice is yours and good luck.

[jwarren2k2]

i really appreciate ur help guys!

i think i'll put the valver head on with megane valves and flowed etc, then when i save a bit more money, i can buy new inlet valves for the megane head (maybe larger ones), and put on tb's (may be a while, or never happen, but as said, it'll be a good fun project)

[stan]

well...std megane inlets (33mm) will require larger seat inserts, which is where the cost comes in...so if your planning on increasing the valve area, your best selecting one, and sticking to it.

[MAXIBOY]

thats what he said fit the megane valves in a 1.8 head and then fit larger valves to the megane head at a later maybe never date

[stan]

ahhh my bad...thought he meant fit megane valves, then fit larger still, at a later date.

[jwarren2k2]

yeah, what maxiboy said! sorry to confuse ya stan!

Right, Im collecting my megane engine with inlet and zorst manifolds on sunday, so this wee project can begin next week! Wahoo!

Just a couple more questions...

As it seems better to use the valver/williams head (without t.bodies) with meggy valves, would i use the valver/willy cams, or the meggy cams as i won't be uprating the cams now?

Also, which head gasket should i use?

And just to confirm, i should use the valver manifold with valver head and willy manifold for willy head, even though the inlet valves will be bigger?!


thanks!