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DaveH
08-01-2007, 22:26
Are they any good? Looks like the nana got some good gains from the headwork there.

Asking as im hoping to aquire a new engine soon and would like to go down the headwork/cams route, plus theyre quite close to me!

stew
08-01-2007, 22:35
yeah they seem good.

no ideas on prices tho...

richy
08-01-2007, 22:43
yeah gaz seems impressed with them, same as stew no idea on costs though!

bass_direct
08-01-2007, 22:52
think it's 400 quid for headwork

Martin
09-01-2007, 09:38
I thought it was twice that much Bass.....

J o n
09-01-2007, 09:45
sure Gaz paid around £700 for head work :? either way I hear from Gaz they are very good, and Andy GDI was telling me that they are very good too.

Danlp6
09-01-2007, 10:12
Stan @ APD is £400 for a willy head.

Tommo
09-01-2007, 13:14
Yeah Steve at Port-Formance is very good, knows his stuff, done a few jobs on mine, not sure about cost of headwork tho, best to ask Gaz

bass_direct
09-01-2007, 14:29
I thought it was twice that much Bass.....

:shock:

stan also does big valve head for 750 8)

bass_direct
09-01-2007, 14:30
btw, there's pics in gaz's garage from the headwork @ port-formance

DaveH
09-01-2007, 20:25
Yeah im well up for that mate ive always wondered what the fuss is about this banana! i came on the peaks run but didnt really get to see it.

Seriously though im supposed to be in work that day but il organise cover and pop down, ive not bought the engine yet but im on the look out for a good williams engine that i can rebuild for the summer. It needs to be spot on though as ive had a lot of problems rebuilding my f7p and it still isnt right.

I was going to rebuild it myself but with the headwork etc done by a specialist and have heard a lot of good things about port-formance.

Would it be mega expensive to have a ported big valve head built by them then if Stans is 750?

DaveH
09-01-2007, 22:21
Sorted then. Am i allowed to just tag along and watch as well or do i have to pay for anything?

stan
09-01-2007, 22:26
What cams are in yours Gaz?

northy
10-01-2007, 08:42
Gaz runs Kent RN2002's

DaveH
10-01-2007, 19:36
What are the differences on those cams? I take it its the lift but what spec are each ones, also have you not found the kent pullies troublesome?

I dont have a helmet, do they rent them out? Was hoping to buy one for some track days in the summer but looks like my money may be tied up somewhere else now!

northy
11-01-2007, 08:45
Think helmets are £10 at trackdays.

J o n
11-01-2007, 10:13
Sorted then. Am i allowed to just tag along and watch as well or do i have to pay for anything?

All u will have to pay for is to go out for passenger laps, think it's £10 with Easytrack then try and get in as many cars u can... :wink: ....u'll need a helmet if your coming out on track otherwise spectating is free.


What cams are in yours Gaz?

As above Stan, RN2002's. Could do with some RN2003's or even the RN2004's... :twisted:

**** that Gaz, you want the cat cams I had in the Williams, much more lift than those pants Kent ones, I'd reckon it would take you over the 200bhp barrier with ease!

DaveH
12-01-2007, 00:52
What spec cat cams did you have jesus?

stan
12-01-2007, 03:17
Cliolord off here has just fitted a williams head I worked, to his hybrid, along with catcams '2225 grind cams. Will be very intrested to see the results when he gets it mapped....

"its ****ing mental fast" i think his words were!

should be a nice comparison with the nana :)

bass_direct
12-01-2007, 05:51
lee's/projectvalver's words were, "it sounds like a ****ing absolute animal! never heard anything like it ever, it's ****ing quick, it's like a ****ing v8"









never in my life have i heard Lee swear so much :wink:

BenR
12-01-2007, 11:02
do you have yours?

BenR
12-01-2007, 11:06
yup.

BenR
12-01-2007, 11:13
lets get ours all up then, i'll get mine off the flowbench computer this eve.

McPikie
12-01-2007, 11:22
I don't have flow figures, but am happy to wave my dick :lol:

northy
12-01-2007, 11:24
start a new thread for when you post the graphs then lads.

ScottCup
12-01-2007, 11:39
ME, ME, ME, I have flow figures from Port-Formance too :wink: what a guy!

bluenose
12-01-2007, 11:57
lets get ours all up then

...Will take a picture of mine as I don't have a scanner.

:lol: On a willy website of all places :gay:

stan
12-01-2007, 15:23
Great idea!!

I'll have to dig some out.

MAXIBOY
12-01-2007, 15:28
yes this sounds good as i will be in the market for one by the look of things

BenR
12-01-2007, 15:58
whats the spec of the head to compare btw? lol

williams, valver, megane, 172?

MatBrown
12-01-2007, 15:59
I don't have flow figures, but am happy to wave my dick :lol:Great idea!!

I'll have to dig some out.

:shock:



Mat.

2 live
12-01-2007, 18:35
whats the spec of the head to compare btw? lol

williams, valver, megane, 172?


172 head on f7r??? y?? lol

Martin
13-01-2007, 09:58
[quote="GazTwo"

Will be good to compare, I've already had Cliolord PM'ing me for a dual at Santa Pod.... :lol:

[quote]

lol Do IT, DO IT! You might like it.....

stan
13-01-2007, 13:41
LOL@ Mat :lol:

J o n
14-01-2007, 18:02
Sorted then. Am i allowed to just tag along and watch as well or do i have to pay for anything?

All u will have to pay for is to go out for passenger laps, think it's £10 with Easytrack then try and get in as many cars u can... :wink: ....u'll need a helmet if your coming out on track otherwise spectating is free.


What cams are in yours Gaz?

As above Stan, RN2002's. Could do with some RN2003's or even the RN2004's... :twisted:

f**k that Gaz, you want the cat cams I had in the Williams, much more lift than those pants Kent ones, I'd reckon it would take you over the 200bhp barrier with ease!

TBH Ste reckons it should be over the 200bhp barrier, he's not convinced with the map on it.. :?

hmm, well you could take it to Ric Wood, he's pretty local and can do remaps, not sure about on the stock ECU though... he got the Clio TT running and mapped when Wayne was unable to, but he'll cost a fair bit more and will probably recommend a DTA or MOTEC stand alone.

DaveH, not sure on the exact cam profile used on my Williams, think they are on cat cams web site, best speaking to BenR though as he got them and fitted them for me. Deffo better than Kent efforts though! lol

MAXIBOY
14-01-2007, 18:06
can we see the flow bench graphs please

DaveH
14-01-2007, 18:28
^^^ I'll second that get em up guys!

Cheers Jesus ive heard good things about cat cams and mixed opinions on kent, mostly that the cams are as good as any other performance cam but the pulleys are poo, saying that ive also heard that theyve now sorted that problem out and changed the design. Trouble is when tuning engines you only have peoples opinion to go off on things like cams, headwork and tuning companies so its easy to get confused about where to take the engine and what specs to go for. Im hoping these flow graphs help make my mind up!

stan
14-01-2007, 19:06
I need to sort through some CD's...back in work end of next week.

Flow graphs only show a small part of the story...theres alot more to head performance than steady state flow.

J o n
14-01-2007, 19:53
sounds almost like a disclaimer Stan lol

stan
14-01-2007, 23:20
No, just people make too much of a fuss about it.

nyk
15-01-2007, 00:05
Stan, do you flow them yourself or do you have contacts that do that sort of thing for you??

Askin as we're havin the head done on the track car but wanna take it somewhere where we can watch it done out of interest.

:lol:

stan
15-01-2007, 01:14
I do it all myself. Only thing I dont do is machining operations for larger inserts/cuts.

As for watching...no can do sorry..I get in the "zone" and full concentration is required! :D

MAXIBOY
15-01-2007, 01:32
have you got your own flow bench or do you use the superflow 700 at mount pleasent

stan
15-01-2007, 12:50
Nope havnt got my own...not much point when I have full access to the uni gear, usually the 700, sometimes the 110.

MAXIBOY
15-01-2007, 21:46
yeah flow figures flow figures :twisted:

MatBrown
15-01-2007, 21:48
Fight, Fight, Fight!

MatBrown
15-01-2007, 21:48
Sorry,
Got carried away there!



Mat.

BenR
15-01-2007, 21:54
Any flow figures yet Stan/Ben??

yes, but i'm a little preoccupied in fixing the ****ing thing :evil:

When transporting it all the fluid decided to leave tha manometers and fill the lines.........now its blocking pressure flow and wont read anything........joy.

MAXIBOY
15-01-2007, 21:57
what flow bench are you using/fixing ben R

BenR
15-01-2007, 22:05
120.

There is no 700 model :? you mean the six?

BenR
15-01-2007, 22:06
it was my fault, i forgot to close the valves when transporting....doh....luckily none got into the flowcom.

MAXIBOY
15-01-2007, 22:07
yes mate. been about 8/9 years since i used one and too much stella in between. the old grey matter must be going

stan
15-01-2007, 23:35
yes it is 600.

chill lads...as above "back in work end of next week".

J o n
16-01-2007, 10:34
is everyone waiting for the other person to post theirs first so they can add a few numbers onto the end to gain supremacy? lol

right, on 3...

stan
16-01-2007, 11:35
damn my plan has been scuppered :lol:
:roll:

Theres no reason why the port formance ones cant be posted tho?? they are available right now?

northy
16-01-2007, 11:40
dont forget to post on the new thread.

Only people they are cheating are themselves jesus

stan
16-01-2007, 12:01
Yes...alot like exagerated rolling road figures.

McPikie
16-01-2007, 12:31
Yes...alot like exagerated rolling road figures.

So my car really hasn't got 248 bhp at the wheels like the eBay ad said? :oops:

J o n
16-01-2007, 12:50
dont forget to post on the new thread.

Only people they are cheating are themselves jesus

not if people are paying them their not! lol

to ensure fairness I think all the results should be PM'd to your good self Northy then once all in you post it up in a new thread... imo anyway

Pikie, you get a resistor chip off ebay too? I'm aiming for 1000bhp @ the wheels :lol:

McPikie
16-01-2007, 12:52
Pikie, you get a resistor chip off ebay too? I'm aiming for 1000bhp @ the wheels :lol:

No, but I am considering a Powerchips Technology Chip to see how it runs. If it's wank, I have only lost £30 :D

BenR
16-01-2007, 13:21
dont forget to post on the new thread.

Only people they are cheating are themselves jesus

Not really, but i think its a good idea to email/PM the graphs to northy so he can get them all before they are in view.

But its only now that gaz has posted we have established that its a stock willy head.

What test pressure do we need to run at aswell gaz.

BenR
16-01-2007, 15:17
nope, at the top of your graph it should tell you how many inches (") the test was performed at. If we do not all use the same test pressure then the CFM figures will be skewed by upto 100%.

FlamingMonkey
16-01-2007, 21:57
My head figures

http://www.aiai.ed.ac.uk/~bat/GA/IMG/puppet-heads-l.jpg

cliolord
16-01-2007, 22:39
Cliolord off here has just fitted a williams head I worked, to his hybrid, along with catcams '2225 grind cams. Will be very intrested to see the results when he gets it mapped....

"its f***king mental fast" i think his words were!

should be a nice comparison with the nana :)

there are no words for it :lol: cat cams are the way forward

BenR
16-01-2007, 23:29
10"

spanks

DaveH
16-01-2007, 23:57
Sorry Stan what does 2225 grind cams mean, just been on catcams website and all thats listed are duration, maximum lift and lift at tdc?

DaveH
16-01-2007, 23:59
Just read it again, is it the part number?

stan
17-01-2007, 12:47
"5502225" is the part number. second one down on the list on the site...though the site seems to be down right now, on the cams section at least.

DaveH
17-01-2007, 14:58
Yeah i saw it later on and realised what you meant, fairly mild cams those arent they? but cliolord said it was lumpy as hell. Or is that due to the timing?

stan
17-01-2007, 17:33
well.....they are relatively mild, in terms of figures compared to other brands of cams....but they are they are a very good profile in comparison. dont forget you are limited by the oe managment when it comes to the profile.

yes, the timing needs fine tuning on his.

DaveH
17-01-2007, 18:32
Just looked now and it says you can also use the 2208 on oem stuff but when you get down to the 2213 milder rally race stuff it says to use adjustable management. Also just looking a Gaz's spec hes got kent rn2002 which on the list are also amongst the milder cams. How far can you go with them for fast road/track whilst keeping it driveable and not having a silly power band? Sorry with all the questions but i want to make the right decisions before parting with a load of cash.

cliolord
17-01-2007, 18:58
Just looked now and it says you can also use the 2208 on oem stuff but when you get down to the 2213 milder rally race stuff it says to use adjustable management. Also just looking a Gaz's spec hes got kent rn2002 which on the list are also amongst the milder cams. How far can you go with them for fast road/track whilst keeping it driveable and not having a silly power band? Sorry with all the questions but i want to make the right decisions before parting with a load of cash.

At the moment, it is a lumpy idle and doesnt like being driven under 2,000rpm it starts to get jumpy. It is fully on cam at around 4,000rpm and pulls into the limiter which is still stock willy ECU 6,500rpm. Between 2,700rpm - 3,700rpm it's like the valver lump at 4,000+rpm. Here I have a video of the car idling...

http://media.putfile.com/idling-92

DaveH
17-01-2007, 21:07
Well idaeally what i want is the extra pull of the f7r lower down but also a decent spec cam that helps higher up. So does yours behave a lot like a more powerful f7p engine, i.e. have to rev it a lot to get the most of it? Your power band and also your idle will alter when you have the timing set up properly. Does sound good lumpy though!

cliolord
17-01-2007, 21:17
well mate, im affraid more power will mean you have to rev the thing harder really. With cams, they do alter power bands. I will let craig work his magic on the verniers and see what happens

northy
18-01-2007, 11:10
i think i do gaz, but ive cleaned my email inbox so i might need to get another copy.

cliolord
18-01-2007, 18:46
Mine pulls all the way through...Williams style... 8)

Sounds good. Can't wait to get it setup properly :twisted:

BenR
19-01-2007, 00:24
Just a std graph like this, but this is a BDG and i normally correct to 28" to keep in line with the states.

Got the new lines for the flowbench today so should be stripping out the old and sticking in the new.


Stan/Ben whats gonna been shown on these graphs your doing??

Mine is showing standard flow figures, flow figures after it's been ported and percentage increase.

And from memory I think northy should already have a copy of mine & Scott's what I sent him just after it was all done.

BenR
19-01-2007, 00:25
oh, and peak % gain isnt what you want to be looking at, you want to concentrate on area under the graph, otherwise i could just honk out a head to flow stupidly high at 1/2" but shite everywhere else.

northy
29-01-2007, 17:09
B U M P

Come on ben and stan....lets see your graphs.

stan
29-01-2007, 17:20
Im planning on getting on flowbench end of this wk, beginning of next.

Sorry if this dissapoints, or whatever...but im busy.

northy
29-01-2007, 17:28
8) come on stan.....get it sorted :lol:

stan
29-01-2007, 17:30
:P

Scougar
23-02-2007, 10:40
Cat cams = scatter cams?

Matthew

DaveH
09-03-2007, 01:08
??

Did we ever get around to sorting flow benches/graphs lads? I have my engine now so will be having work done shortly.

BenR
09-03-2007, 01:21
I'm doing richys at the moment with a few new tweeks so that info will be available shortly.

I've been so snowed under at the moment that i havent been able to finish off the last bits.

bill.
17-06-2007, 17:36
do port-formance have a website?

Tommo
17-06-2007, 18:37
www.po-fo.com

bill.
17-06-2007, 22:26
cheers fella, i'll keep my eyes on that :D

summeh
19-06-2007, 22:28
no graphs then :wink:

stan
25-06-2007, 16:37
yeah...if only we all had enough time to test heads for figures to compare on internet forums :roll:

WHEN i get a chance to test one of the heads I have in i WILL, and i will post them here in due course :wink:

stan
25-06-2007, 22:37
is that why your waving? :lol:

I dont use the flow bench everytime I work a head. For one reaqson, I dont own one...I use one local to me...but its a day out of the workshop as its 20 miles from my workshop....so i loose a days working time basically. Secondly it isnt necessary: Ive done lots of testing in the past with these heads and found what works, and confirmed this from dyno runs....I replicate that. Like I said in the beginning of this thread (which seemed to be taken as an excuse) CFM means very little when making power, Its more a figure for impressing customers who dont fully understand whats going on...hence why theres many peoplke here eager to see figures, AND why im not goin to go out of my way to take time out of work to obtain more figures. suffice to say, I have some revisions in mind, so it wont be long before im testing them.

Also, you should note that for example, Nick Hill doesnt and hasnt used a flow bench in developing his heads.....

Port-Formance
08-08-2007, 13:28
A joiner without a tape measure.

A bricky without a spirit level.

A tyre fitter without a wheel balancer.

An electrician without a multi-meter.

A gas fitter without a leak tester.

A tuner without a flow bench.

A shop without a till.

An engineer without a straight edge.

A colour blind sprayer.

All have one thing in common; they’re cheap compared to others! (or are they)?

Rich
08-08-2007, 15:02
think he needs to take a long walk off a short pier.

I dont care if you have been used by a couple of the hierarchy on here and have had good results.

you are not known well on here and if you are on to try and generate a bit of extra business or even if you have been invited on here you are still striking myself (and also others i believe) as a grade A prick already!

Stan has given reasoning for not always using a flow bench always and if he finds one method gives the same kind of results then why should he lose a days work to go and use one.

kindly post a constructive comment or leave and dont post again imo.

schakal
08-08-2007, 15:10
ayee i think the duder tried to make an impressive entry :D
no indeed it happened to be a very gahey one :?

i agree with rich , dont say anymore if you have not
got anything constructive / technical to say .

drsmith1979
08-08-2007, 15:56
in all honesty hes got a point, regardless of whether you agree with the way it was done or not.

There is no doubting that Stan and ben etc.. get good results, but would you buy a car because i said it had 300bhp...then when asked if i had it rolling roaded i said no, im guessing. would you take it as gospel? i doubt it very much. same principles here.

No one is arguing (or shouldnt be) regarding whos better etc... merely how they go about their 'art', its for everyone else to decide where they take their car for the work. What you can gaurentee going to port-formance, is that the gains will be proven on a flow bench before it goes anywhere near your car. its not a case of 'take a bit off here, grind a bit there' etc... its more precise which is then backed up with the figures from the flow bench. Without one i find it difficult to believe that consistent results can be gained time and time again as its all done by hand.

Port-Formance
08-08-2007, 18:28
Having owned the flow bench since 1997 and done over twenty thousand flow tests on hundreds of heads I’ve a pretty good idea of what’s going on inside a port, a 16V head will usually visit the flow bench around eighty times before I get it right and am happy to sign the job off, having figures from previous heads lets me know when I’m getting close to optimum flow for that size of port/valve/angle approach/combustion type/engine configuration, it’s not uncommon to reach peak before loosing a tiny amount of flow to realise peak was reached.
Having an accurate machine to do this with is paramount and data acquisition is a must in learning anything from an invisible force which air is, balancing all the ports is also very important and I aim to get them all within 1% of each other. (which is closer than the factory)

Really clever people just use their finger!! :(

drsmith1979
08-08-2007, 18:52
welcome to the 21st century ste 8)

hehe

Daz.
08-08-2007, 19:03
Ooooo a newbie! :lol:

stan
10-08-2007, 11:04
agreed....but your talking as if cfm from a flow bench is be all and end all. If it was I would quote that as opposed to REAL figures which I have seen on a dyno. at the end of the day...its the end performance that matters,,,,and if one of my head makes the power/torque that ive quoted based on past experiences, then IMO thats all that matters. you can talk flow bench all you like, but performance data is alot more valid.

Port-Formance
11-08-2007, 20:31
Sorry for not answering sooner but I have to use the computer at the Uni which is 20 miles away!

If that was aimed at me stan you really shouldn’t have, when one of your higher spec engines gets within 15bhp of my mild cam’d, stock valve original ECU’d cars then I’ll worry, I didn’t want to quote rolling road figures for fear of damaging your business.

“The illusion of knowledge is worse than ignorance and stupidity put together”

matty w
12-08-2007, 00:28
is that why your waving? :lol:

I dont use the flow bench everytime I work a head. For one reaqson, I dont own one...I use one local to me...but its a day out of the workshop as its 20 miles from my workshop....so i loose a days working time basically. Secondly it isnt necessary: Ive done lots of testing in the past with these heads and found what works, and confirmed this from dyno runs....I replicate that. Like I said in the beginning of this thread (which seemed to be taken as an excuse) CFM means very little when making power, Its more a figure for impressing customers who dont fully understand whats going on...hence why theres many peoplke here eager to see figures, AND why im not goin to go out of my way to take time out of work to obtain more figures. suffice to say, I have some revisions in mind, so it wont be long before im testing them.

Also, you should note that for example, Nick Hill doesnt and hasnt used a flow bench in developing his heads.....
has nick told you that?

stan
12-08-2007, 09:45
Sorry for not answering sooner but I have to use the computer at the Uni which is 20 miles away!

If that was aimed at me stan you really shouldn’t have, when one of your higher spec engines gets within 15bhp of my mild cam’d, stock valve original ECU’d cars then I’ll worry, I didn’t want to quote rolling road figures for fear of damaging your business.

“The illusion of knowledge is worse than ignorance and stupidity put together”

no, it wasbt in reply to you.

I see....so thats what this is about.....joining the forum to TRY and bring someones reputation down whilst tying to boost your own. good effort. you must be busy at work.
SO....
what the **** is your problem mate? Lots of snide comments in my direction for someone who doesnt even know me, let alone ever spoken to me before.

As far as your work on Gaz2's car goes, aye good results especially with such mild cams. I have one question though...what did summehs make without the cams...173-4bhp??

stan
12-08-2007, 09:45
has nick told you that?

yes mate.

summeh
12-08-2007, 19:38
175.7bhp I think is the correct figure. This is with head work, inlet manifold matching, bottom end rebuild and a remap.

Standard cams, standard valves, Williams exhaust manifold.

I'm not 100% sure what was done to the bottom end but I think the cranks been balanced.

2 live
12-08-2007, 19:39
Sorry for not answering sooner but I have to use the computer at the Uni which is 20 miles away!

If that was aimed at me stan you really shouldn’t have, when one of your higher spec engines gets within 15bhp of my mild cam’d, stock valve original ECU’d cars then I’ll worry, I didn’t want to quote rolling road figures for fear of damaging your business.

“The illusion of knowledge is worse than ignorance and stupidity put together”


looks like things are getting a little heated in here lol.

ur still all chasing the power a back street build produces. i suggest wen youve done this, then comment. til then.....

the 1 in front is king, area 51 will take its crown.

grow the **** up and dont dis other tuners that are rightly so getting a lot of business.


play nice ladies

richy
12-08-2007, 19:42
lets just keep this sensible lads :wink:

2 live
12-08-2007, 19:44
175.7bhp I think is the correct figure. This is with head work, inlet manifold matching, bottom end rebuild and a remap.

Standard cams, standard valves, Williams exhaust manifold.

I'm not 100% sure what was done to the bottom end but I think the cranks been balanced.

is that the spec it was running at brunters fcs?

summeh
12-08-2007, 19:46
I don't think so mate as Scott had this done by Ste @ Port-Formance back in Oct 2006 I believe.

summeh
12-08-2007, 19:46
175.7bhp I think is the correct figure. This is with head work, inlet manifold matching, bottom end rebuild and a remap.

Standard cams, standard valves, Williams exhaust manifold.

I'm not 100% sure what was done to the bottom end but I think the cranks been balanced.

is that the spec it was running at brunters fcs?

I think he blew it up at FCS or something. Not sure.

Martin
12-08-2007, 19:51
No need for stirring imo , not a good entrance to the forum at all.

Whats with the alloy head specialist bollox instead of member :?

2 live
12-08-2007, 19:56
yeah, just after a rebuild iirc ;)

hmm. wouldnt expect that

richy
12-08-2007, 20:00
now now kiddies!

i thought it was the first time scott used at at fcs 06 and it blew up or along them lines, then he had it rebuilt after he had to find a new lump etc after the guy he got it off didnt let him know about its real state etc

2 live
12-08-2007, 20:20
Yeah FCS was Scott's first outing in what was meant to be Spider Spec 192bhp engine but it popped well and truly.

Ended up a brand new engine really, head had been skimmed to death so that was no use so he sourced a new head, new everything went on it. Had the flywheel lightend and balanced and the head & inlet match done @ Port-Formance.

It's still running in really that engine bet it's done 500miles if that.

my bad, maybe.

just seem to remember it blowing up/ running really really shi after the rebuild. wouldnt expect that after a hefty bill

2 live
12-08-2007, 20:45
thatl be it. the rs day.

it had work done between them tho didnt it.

stan
12-08-2007, 20:55
175.7bhp I think is the correct figure. This is with head work, inlet manifold matching, bottom end rebuild and a remap.

Standard cams, standard valves, Williams exhaust manifold.

I'm not 100% sure what was done to the bottom end but I think the cranks been balanced.

aye...cool.

not to different to a 86k williams engine making 173bhp with just my headwork then.

and your head is the same spec as gaz2's I presume?

summeh
12-08-2007, 23:58
175.7bhp I think is the correct figure. This is with head work, inlet manifold matching, bottom end rebuild and a remap.

Standard cams, standard valves, Williams exhaust manifold.

I'm not 100% sure what was done to the bottom end but I think the cranks been balanced.

aye...cool.

not to different to a 86k williams engine making 173bhp with just my headwork then.

and your head is the same spec as gaz2's I presume?

I believe so yeah. I am going to put some wilder cams in than Gaz has in ready for next year, will get it remapped and see what the difference is, I'm hoping for 200+ though.

J o n
13-08-2007, 15:57
lol @ this thread. I found Steve's opening post pretty amusing, although I can see why it would get people's backs up.

He does have a point though, as this thread is over 8 months old since the original promise of all this data was made. 8 months is a long time, even if you have been living in a Tibetan mountain

AndyFielder
13-08-2007, 16:13
should have a who can make the best head competition on a rolling road with the same car and the looser pays for all the work!

stan
13-08-2007, 21:48
lol @ this thread. I found Steve's opening post pretty amusing, although I can see why it would get people's backs up.

He does have a point though, as this thread is over 8 months old since the original promise of all this data was made. 8 months is a long time, even if you have been living in a Tibetan mountain

you must have been reading something different mate....I didnt once see him mention timescales of so called promised data, as that isnt what he was posting about. He came on here giving it johny big potatos, taking the piss and making himself look like a tool in the process.

As summeh has confirmed, his made ~175bhp with the same spec head as Gaz's, so the difference primarily being the cams. To me and a few others (i.e. the realists not in the clique), this begs the massive question....WHERE THE **** DID GAZ GET HIS CAMS FROM?? Cos they sure are producing the goods giving him an extra ~25bhp :roll:

stan
13-08-2007, 23:03
18months ago no one was modifying F7 heads???? Funny that, I recall severall conversations over 5 years ago with Nick about such work.

Im not doubting your quoted power is achievable, I do doubt it however with the "mild" cams you have, given the power summehs makes with std cams.

Is that not a fair query??

J o n
13-08-2007, 23:27
Stan, to be fair I think you must have missed the subtle side of the post, but either way I couldn't care less who says what. I was told years ago by BenR that headwork on a Williams was pointless, now it seems to be the best thing to do... it's hard to keep up tbh.

As for Gaz's car you being a tuner surely know different engines make different power and that one ran a 14.1 with less stripping out that people do these days and on a 6500 rev limit. It's a strong quick engine, so irrespective of what "should", "might" etc etc work best, whatever the case is that it's one of the quickest Mk1's on standard inlet.

As for the cams talk, they are cheapo regrinds from Bondy off CS that Mehdi bought back in the day for it... would be quicker with some better ones... goes without saying I spose. Don't really understand this clique nonsense either, just detracts from any point you were trying to make and sounds unprofessional. People go with what works and you seem to have a good following of people that trust in you so why rise to it?

This thread seems pretty pointless as the original intention was to show flow rates or something for respective heads? I think it's safe to say it's almost run it's course :roll:

2 live
13-08-2007, 23:27
My cams came from wherever Mehdi bought them from. I haven't shelled out for any new cams....yet..... :wink:

Just because nobody else has managed to get that power from the same spec doesn't mean it isn't possible.

18mths ago nobody would really entertain headwork on an F7 engine as so many people had said u couldn't get any gains from them and look at how many people are going for headwork now whether it be from Port-Formance, Ben R, GDI, yourself or any other tuners...because it's been proven otherwise.

There's no conspiracy with my car, it's the same as it was when Martin owned it just with headwork and a remap.

Maybe u "realists" should do less chatting about us in the "clique" and find out where your going wrong??

nobody has matched the power of urs?



pmsl.


14.0, and a lot heavier, with a LOT less mods......




its like fukkin jackanory on here

VIPERONE
13-08-2007, 23:43
the demise of this website continues lol.

It was out of order in my opinion for the port performance chap to come and and ridicule the work of others in order to gain custom, he even sports a sales team on here :wink:

play fair, its never easy starting out in business.

GG

MatBrown
14-08-2007, 00:37
I have locked the thread once but it seems someone still has something to prove?


Mat.

J o n
14-08-2007, 09:34
Matt, not sure why that's happened, but I dont have the rights to lock, so could you do the honors please pal as this is only going one way