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thelynx
22-12-2006, 13:54
As above, is there any worthy brake upgrades other than 4 pots?

CheeRS

wavy
22-12-2006, 15:10
an anchor thrown out the boot :lol:

sorry fella i dont know of any

Clio_GTT
22-12-2006, 16:32
the 285 kit doesn't seem to bad for the money

Andy P
22-12-2006, 18:05
the 285 kit doesn't seem to bad for the money

K-tec kit is shit imo. Matt doesnt rate them either.

stan
22-12-2006, 18:11
Brembo Max discs with Ferrodo DS2500 pads are pretty much faultless.

Dan_mk1
22-12-2006, 18:21
Brembo Max discs with Ferrodo DS2500 pads are pretty much faultless.

Yup, or mintex, pretty shit hot!

richy
22-12-2006, 20:01
i know u said other then 4pots, but my valver has the ds2500 pads/std discs, and i dont like them, not that there shit but the wilwood 4pots are much better! :) will be moving the 4pots onto it soon!

Daz.
22-12-2006, 23:10
Brembo Max discs with Ferrodo DS2500 pads are pretty much faultless.

Now I've got this setup on the willy and at first I thought hurrah decent brakes but at the moment I don't have much confidence in them at all? I know my tyres are fooked but I didn't trust them before that either - changed everything on it apart from the master, new calipers, fluids and braided hoses.

Might invest in 4 pots myself next year

Imperial_16v
22-12-2006, 23:21
Any takers on this kit?

http://www.espdesign.co.uk/esp.storefront/EN/Product/69301

Looks good for £600.

:)

Justin..
23-12-2006, 00:55
you can get willwoods loads cheaper than that

bill.
23-12-2006, 08:59
whats best price on willwoods?

heard bad things about hi spec!

Martin
23-12-2006, 09:48
stnd brakes are fine imo

stan
23-12-2006, 09:48
Wilwood capipers are only circa £75 each.

If your calipers are working as they should...i.e the whole system is up to scratch (and your yres are half tidy) you shouldnt have a problem with the above set-up. But theres no point trying to hide a fundamental mechanical problem by buying different discs and pads!

I prefer this set up^^^ to 4pots....the pedal feel is SOO much nicer.

richy
23-12-2006, 13:41
of course u need the whole system working as it should! the valver it all works fine just i prefer the 4pots! only problem i have with them is the brakes squeel more but i dont drive it alot so not a big problem! lol

i also had mintex 1144 pads/brembo discs before the 4pots, all new calipers with goodridge braided hoses and fully rebleed, good but not as good as 4pots imo, suppose what size 4pots u get helps too, i know stromba had problems with his, im sure his had bigger pistons then my wilwoods have iirc

MattyH16valver
23-12-2006, 22:09
the 285 kit doesn't seem to bad for the money

K-tec kit is s**t imo. Matt doesnt rate them either.

I have had 2 lots of this kit, and must say that the stopping power is definately no better over standard. It's more for looks, as in theory the calipers are still that same size, just with bigger discs, so you don't stop any quicker. I'd either try to get the standard set-up up to scratch with new/re-furbed parts or even better...invest in some 4 pots, if u want real stopping power for track use etc. iirr u need to get a custom bracket made up though, in order to use the Willwood calipers.

DanClio
30-12-2006, 14:34
I had valver brakes on my 1.4 when i had it. I think the only difference is that the discs are bigger (caliper looked the same just extended) and it stopped on its nose with standard discs and pads. So bigger discs must increase your stopping power as they have more leverage on the wheel.

Dan

Lunner
30-12-2006, 15:39
the 285 kit doesn't seem to bad for the money

K-tec kit is s**t imo. Matt doesnt rate them either.

I have had 2 lots of this kit, and must say that the stopping power is definately no better over standard. It's more for looks, as in theory the calipers are still that same size, just with bigger discs, so you don't stop any quicker. I'd either try to get the standard set-up up to scratch with new/re-furbed parts or even better...invest in some 4 pots, if u want real stopping power for track use etc. iirr u need to get a custom bracket made up though, in order to use the Willwood calipers.

You might not have noticed any difference, but the laws of phtsics state that if the clamping force is further from the pivot then the effect said clasmping force has will be greater.......kinda like using a great big breaker bar compared to a 150mm rachet

Justin..
30-12-2006, 15:48
noticed a difference with my 285 kit

clowo16v
30-12-2006, 15:50
Rebuilt calipers, brembo max and ds2500 disks and the ABS fuse taken out are where its at lol

Matt

Zollo
30-12-2006, 16:11
The standard setup is perfectly good for the road, but on the track it definately doesn't inspire as much confidence as the 4-pots and they definately won't last as long before fading (or melting through to the caliper piston!). With better pads, though, I reckon the standard setup is fine.

I was worried I'd lose feedback/feel and sensitivity through the pedal with the Wilwoods, but I was actually very surprised - hardly any different to the standard setup :)

richy
30-12-2006, 16:22
4pots are just the daddy :wink:

dfused
30-12-2006, 16:29
im running the brembo max discs with pagid pads, awsome when the brakes are up to temp.

but f**king scary when cold!

Lunner
30-12-2006, 17:53
pagid fast road pads are fine when cold, awesome when hot, and i've never had any dfade on them on track or road, but from high speeds the bite is shite, but guess thats just the brakes in general rather than a pad thing

DaveH
30-12-2006, 18:28
So whats the best setup for road use with the occassional track day? i.e. good enough to stop very well on road or track but little or no fade/problems when hot.

Lunner
30-12-2006, 18:55
I had no problems when using pagid fast road pads (£30 from gsf), and std brembo discs (£30 from gsf), castrol dot 4 super brake fluid

Daz.
30-12-2006, 20:34
I'm not happy with the DS2500s I've decided :lol:

Now the brakes on my valver were std but it was ****ing awesome - even the abs worked suprisingly well..

You ask winston how good that valver was at late braking :wink:

Wish I had those on the willy I'd be over the moon

dfused
30-12-2006, 23:30
The pagid pads i have arnt the standard cheep ones from gsf, there the track and rally ones avaliable on Ktec website

http://www.k-tecracing.com/show_product.asp?id=957

white16valver
31-12-2006, 15:23
At that price they must be pagid blue's?

Yoz does them cheaper though ;) lol

Got them on mine - excellent pads :)

white16valver
31-12-2006, 15:23
At that price they must be pagid blues?

Yoz does them cheaper though ;) lol

Got them on mine - excellent pads :)

white16valver
31-12-2006, 15:31
dammit, I can't edit LoL

Dan_mk1
02-01-2007, 11:32
So whats the best setup for road use with the occassional track day? i.e. good enough to stop very well on road or track but little or no fade/problems when hot.

I have rebuilt calipers, brembo max discs and mintex pads, work bloody well for road and track use, 4 pots are overkill on a 900kg car imo

Lunner
02-01-2007, 12:53
They aren't. not when you're next to one with 4 pots on on track and you see just how much later they can leave braking, makes a BIG difference

stew
02-01-2007, 15:04
They aren't. not when you're next to one with 4 pots on on track and you see just how much later they can leave braking, makes a BIG difference

agree with that.

its not just how late you can leave it, its the confidence you have with them. my brakes were pretty ****ed by the end of cadwell, and being chased by gaz in the nana i had to leave braking way late a few times. chasing him it was obvious just how good 4 pots and decent pads are.

jay s
02-01-2007, 15:12
ive got tarox 40 groove disc on front, std on rear. ebc greenstuff pads all round. on the road once up to temp they are very good but i did get a bit of fade after a good few hot lap at cadwell. 4/6 pots are on my list of things to do this year.....

richy
02-01-2007, 20:13
I have rebuilt calipers, brembo max discs and mintex pads, work bloody well for road and track use, 4 pots are overkill on a 900kg car imo

balls! me and rob(flaming monkey) were playing at both donington and angelsey and i clearly outbraked his and didnt get a drop of fade even after alot of laps! not just 4laps lol

they are miles better then std esp on track!

Martin
02-01-2007, 20:47
Only at the end of the day at cadwell did I notice my totally oe setup starting to feel spongy.....did'nt seem to lose anything under braking to the nana really. 4 pots do give better feel imo but later braking I'm not convinced..tyres / grip are the limiting factor here...maybe on full slicks there would be a difference but not on road tyres.

BenR
02-01-2007, 20:55
martin, you've got to try the carbon lorraine sintered pads, i love them on my scoob.

Martin
02-01-2007, 21:00
They sound expensive lol

richy
02-01-2007, 21:00
Only at the end of the day at cadwell did I notice my totally oe setup starting to feel spongy.....did'nt seem to lose anything under braking to the nana really. 4 pots do give better feel imo but later braking I'm not convinced..tyres / grip are the limiting factor here...maybe on full slicks there would be a difference but not on road tyres.

i thought you didnt use the brakes lol, just chucked it in and let the front bumper slow it !

Lunner
02-01-2007, 21:13
I must admit martin was locking up a fair few times last time i was at cadwell with him, in teh now ex hybrid, dunno if that had 4 pots

Dan_mk1
05-01-2007, 17:42
Standards IIRC

Swervin_Mervin
05-01-2007, 18:37
Refresh your standard setup first and fit DS2500 pads.

Unless your tracking it lots and lots that's a perfect setup.

1995clio16v
05-01-2007, 20:11
Get some tarox 6 pots if your after some for your valver.


About £750 for fronts, thats a pair, which is only a couple of hundred quid more than ktech, they look the fuc*in nuts too!

Justin..
05-01-2007, 20:13
lol! theyre way over the top imo unless you'rrunnin a mega buck spec like a 280 bhp turbo beast or something

1995clio16v
05-01-2007, 22:21
Yeah, but theyre huge and look the nuts!

1995clio16v
05-01-2007, 22:22
Yeah, but theyre huge and look the nuts!

willyturb0
25-01-2007, 17:30
i've got the tarox 6 pots.

really have to get heat inton them to get them working, spoke to tarox and the kit was supplied with race pads, so i'm now waiting for them to get me a softer pad.

stop the car ok though. only just fit under the wheels.

bill.
25-01-2007, 17:39
pics? :D

cliorod
04-02-2007, 00:26
A couple of Pics ( one from my phone :cry: ) of the Brakes on my Rally car,Radial mount Alcon 4pots,with titanium pistons and carbo~ ceramic pads ~~ Brand new discs (off my mate) to go on,before we do an event.
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h305/Cliorod/untitled.jpg
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h305/Cliorod/Maxi1.jpg

richy
04-02-2007, 11:03
rod what size discs are they?? look like 330mm or something! :shock:

cliorod
04-02-2007, 12:57
Richy,I have not measured them,but 330mm x 25.4 sounds somewhere near :oops: :oops: .
I bought 8 off 17" Speedlines new,thinking I need these to clear the calipers and discs :cry: :oops: :cry: OOPs,Found out a 16" rim is quite big enough with yards of clearance ~~~ not enough for a 15" rim though :cry: :lol: :lol: .
If I tell you I got the discs about 5 pairs :roll: :wink: a shoe box full of pads ~~ done about 50kms stage miles,and the calipers ~~~ which only needed new piston seals ~~ as a precaution for £500 :wink: :roll: .Then my small engineering workshop mate,made the bells,brackets,did the hard anodising,supplied ALL the nuts 'n' bolts for £450,I considered it a good deal ~~ excellent brakes for under a grand :wink: :wink: .Not tried in anger on an event :twisted: :twisted: ,but stop it ok on the road.
When the brackets,bells etc came back,they all fit on easier than replacing standard discs :roll:

Out of interest,I do not have a brake servo on the car :roll: :roll: ,but a bias adjustable pedal box,with twin brake cylinders ~~~ similar arrangement to the Mk1 & Mk II Escort rally cars of old :roll:

richy
04-02-2007, 19:05
cool, yeah tbh it isnt a bad price considering size and amount of bits etc you have, i payed £360 for the wilwood 4pot calipers for my clio and they fit std size! and i agree there alot easier to fit pads etc lol

i always wandered about whatto use to get rid of the servo and just have master cylinders on it, but i still like to be lazy and drive it on the road too! :lol:

Coops
04-02-2007, 23:06
get hold of a set of R21 turbo brake discs, carriers and calipers, amdaman on here has them on his hybrid dimmer and they are bloody good! 8)

Danlp6
05-02-2007, 00:00
21t are 5 stud...

Justin..
05-02-2007, 00:02
yeah you want the Txi discs and 21T calipers

car13
05-02-2007, 13:40
Pal has some prima 6 pots which came with a 19 donar car as it had willy engine fitted had to run 16's but did the job.

To be fair standard are fine with good pads, best checking suspension as if you running old shocks that dos't help as they are not doing job and adding to braking effort required, also tyres cracking brakes and budget tyres never a good mix.

if budget allows gt some A539 tyres (good yoki's) great for all round driving even wet and some decent pads DS2500 pretty good on my racer not sure for road.

Worth changing fluid to some decent AP600 or similar fine for road use.

willyturb0
18-02-2007, 23:04
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t24/willyturbo/SNV31294.jpg

VIPERONE
18-02-2007, 23:38
willy t-they are the business..look very nice behind the gold..

rod..lol wonder what the rrp is on those calipers

cliorod
19-02-2007, 15:32
Gunner,
The Alcon WRC 4 pots,with std :roll: !???? pistons are over £900 plus vat each :wink: :lol: :wink: .Then add another £50 per piston,for the titanium standard. :roll: :roll:
So all in all,I reckon I got a deal for £500 ~~ no vat :P :P

I think a lot of the expense,is with them being matched,and they come with a certificate of conformity ~~~ quality standards etc etc.

RikiGT
21-02-2007, 06:48
Wilwood capipers are only circa £75 each.

If your calipers are working as they should...i.e the whole system is up to scratch (and your yres are half tidy) you shouldnt have a problem with the above set-up. But theres no point trying to hide a fundamental mechanical problem by buying different discs and pads!

I prefer this set up^^^ to 4pots....the pedal feel is SOO much nicer.

hi guys interesting thread! I have a r5 pretty simlar set up, i have done the 285mm disk conv in the past, it does make a differance but you will only really notice it once at motorway speed an when used in anger :twisted:

gona go one step further this time and go for 4-pots on the 285, can anyone point me in the right direction for above calipers /\/\/\ ive seen a few on rally design but not sure which one is right? i just need it to fit behind 15's :)
also whats the script with caliper extenders? do willwood/rally design sell them? or do i send of the hub/disk/caliper to get some made?

cheers guys, riki

Daz.
21-02-2007, 21:29
tell you something since I had the front put back on standard springs the thing stops on its nose!

Everytime I've ever had a lowered car its always affected stopping - maybe the fact that the springs are too hard and stopping the wheels from digging in as hard as they would on standard?

Scougar
23-02-2007, 00:02
In case anyone isn't actually clear on this... all bigger brake "disks" do is reduce the time it takes for brakes to fade (get too hot). It may mean you never get fade as they are sufficient for a certain track etc.

Better (not necessarily bigger) calipers increase the braking ability.

Matthew

MAXIBOY
23-02-2007, 00:09
no thats wrong. bigger discs also increase the leverage. its basic physics.

Scougar
23-02-2007, 00:34
No your wording is wrong :roll:

It "Also" as you say yourself, increases leverage. All it does "in basic terms", is make it easier for the caliper to grip the disc as it is travelling at less speed and is further from the hub centre (hence extra leverage).

Unless your going from 200-300mm the effect won't be 'that' great, which is why better/bigger calipers have more of an effect than bigger disks.

Also, bigger disks also mean slower acceleration, as the increased rotating mass of the disks has to be pushed round :roll:

Matthew

MAXIBOY
23-02-2007, 00:38
well sorted mine out 325mm discs and alloy four pots.

VIPERONE
23-02-2007, 03:08
not clean:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y109/gunnergibson/Turbo%20conversion/wilwoods1.jpg

nyk
23-02-2007, 03:44
nice 4 pots ^^^^^

lol

Scougar
23-02-2007, 10:12
well sorted mine out 325mm discs and alloy four pots.

lol... That's bigger than my 200sx had on! I upgraded mine to BMW M3 315mm Brembo's on the front with the original Nissan 4 pots. I stuck to standard pads as I don't do sustained go/brake/go/brake driving that requires excessive pads.

Do your brakes lock up very easily?

Gunner: Get the polish out :roll:

Matthew

MAXIBOY
23-02-2007, 10:30
no they don,t. loads of feel and as i,m running large tyres they seem fine. i am running a bit of power though.

Scougar
23-02-2007, 10:48
Impressive! I assume you have braided lines, do you have a braced master cylinder as well?

(Still very suprised you don't lock wheels though... ABS? [or are you 'true' racer and no ABS 8) )

Matthew

MAXIBOY
23-02-2007, 13:16
yes mate braided lines and a bracket on the master cylinder. and no abs. its a waste of time the clio version. what power was your 200

Scougar
26-02-2007, 18:17
200sx was 250bhp/280bhp (depending on boost level I picked).

Friend has a rolling roaded 303bhp (now upto at least 330 at getting it roaded on 10th March along with my clio lol), and he could only 'just' pull away from me, so the power was more likely 280. He also has a brand new turbo that spolled quicker than my factory 90k miles turbo lol.

Car only weighs in at standard 1.2 tons so not losing that much, and some club members have stripped car close to 1 ton. (his and mine were NOT stripped and had full leather interiors).

I quote the 250bhp instead of 280 because I never had it rolling roaded for proof, as I was going to make the same mods for the 330 but then decided to sell and get the clio (as getting married).

Anyway... braided hoses and having the master cylinder braced really help improve the feel of the brakes. I would say though that haven't ABS on the 200sx was very good. Even going slow I have needed it on occasion. I guess the clio version is just really bad?

Matthew

MAXIBOY
26-02-2007, 18:35
yes clio abs seems really grabby. don,t like it at all.

Scougar
27-02-2007, 17:26
Have you considered using a different abs unit? (from another car maker)? I found the ones on my s14a pretty good, and should be pretty abundant. Honestly not sure how you could use the sensors, or if it's linked to the ecu though.

I would think you don't really need abs on track though if that's your main goal for the car.

Matthew