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motormadj
08-12-2006, 19:58
Best value performance mod after de-cat exhuast for valver?

Martin
09-12-2006, 15:51
The one before de-cat is stripping :wink: after......burn the f7p and get a f7r :lol:

Andyvalver
09-12-2006, 15:52
Nowt wrong with the f7p :roll:


:lol:

Martin
09-12-2006, 16:04
Nowt right with it either... :lol:

Seriously though it's an alright engine just not worth tuning...

Clio_GTT
09-12-2006, 18:25
as above, stripping or F7R

motormadj
09-12-2006, 18:57
ok cool im just changing from a williams to a valver cos i need the cash... do you think its gunna be a shock? or not that different?

Mr.AdamB
09-12-2006, 19:13
strip it!!!

decat aand decent stainless exhaust with decent airintake (airbox with aftermarket filter and cold air feed) specific supership and remap is all u want to do to a valver lump!!!

get a f7r if u want to get to sum seriouse power.

nyk
09-12-2006, 20:02
PMSL!!

Funny you guys all say the F7P isnt worth a toss, and the F7R is the best thing since sliced bread.

Funny that 3 clio experts have all told me to modify an F7P and not start with an F7R as the F7P is stronger. One of them being a place who used to race clio cups.

F7R transplant isnt exactly the most value for money modification after a de cat is it.


Get a stainless, re map and then cams if you can afford it.

Andy P
09-12-2006, 20:12
PMSL!!

Funny you guys all say the F7P isnt worth a toss, and the F7R is the best thing since sliced bread.

Funny that 3 clio experts have all told me to modify an F7P and not start with an F7R as the F7P is stronger. One of them being a place who used to race clio cups.

F7R transplant isnt exactly the most value for money modification after a de cat is it.


Get a stainless, re map and then cams if you can afford it.


How much is a set of cams and pullies? £400? Then correct timing and mapping to suit? so £700 all in?

Easily the price of a F7R

nyk
09-12-2006, 20:18
not exactly the price of a williams engine and ECU inc fitting is it???

If your lucky enough to find one with low mileage that will last. Plus you stop there. For £700 spent on a remap, cams and pulleys, you'll get more power out of an F7P that you will out of a standard F7R.

Not exactly value for money imo.

£53 per 1 hp. Great value for performance.

evouk
09-12-2006, 21:12
Ive heard that the 1.8 is a stronger engine aswell.

I may be selling my rebuilt, lightened and balanced 1.8 16v engine thats done 2000 miles next year but not sure what to ask for it.

Andy P
09-12-2006, 21:12
Standard willys run 14s.

Has a valver regardless of spec ever ran 14s?

nyk
09-12-2006, 21:18
Look in the quarter mile table just on here!!

PLEASE :roll:

nyk
09-12-2006, 21:23
Standard willys run 14s.

Has a valver regardless of spec ever ran 14s?

And to that fact, I dont think I've ever seen or heard of a standard willy run 14's on a 1/4 mile. PMSL

Where you gettin your info from. Willy that run 14's have either cams, headwork, or both.

Andy P
09-12-2006, 21:31
with simple breathing mods they run 14s piss easy mate.

Martins ran 13s. Standard engine, mine ran a 14.1, standard engine...

nyk
09-12-2006, 21:39
So what your sayin is people who have got 0.3 seconds ahead of you and spent a whole load of money on cams, remap etc, can get the same power from just some breathing mods.

I'd like to see your print outs for 14.1 on a standard engine. Then you can show everyone you amazing breathing mods that will give you the same power as a willy with cams an a re map.

richy
09-12-2006, 21:50
id just like to say......


who gives a **** about 1/4mile ! you want a quick straight liner, buy a drag car :roll:

nyk
09-12-2006, 21:53
LOL

:lol:

Andy P
09-12-2006, 21:54
id just like to say......


who gives a f**k about 1/4mile ! you want a quick straight liner, buy a drag car :roll:

You're just saying that because you have a 1.2 :lol: :wink:

2 live
09-12-2006, 22:00
lol...

std engine, with de-cat and zorst. williams shud run in the high 14s.all day


mine ran 14.6s at best with these mods.

with same mods and cams fitted, 14.4....only had a couple runs in this spec tho.

then with re-map, 14.0.


this is with car having only rear seats and spare out...full doorcards, front seats etc, and with bonnet on.


all williams' should be able to crackinto the 14s as std. imo. having put 4 or 5 different williams' in the 14s meself, all pretty much standard.


iv yet to see a valver with similar mods get anywhere near the williams equivelent...my valver was about a second slower than the williams, and at the time was deemed to be one of the quicker ones


ask nick read lol...he has nos and a shedload of money under his bonnet....and he still couldnt beat my ,at the time, boggo std williams. he then went turbo in the valver, with cams n map on the willy, beat him 2 outta 3 in the willy usc couple years back...think he had somewhere in the region of 30k in that car.......



best mod for a valver full stop.....f7r


not dissin the valver at all...i used to love mine......but it begs for the 2.0....

Andy P
09-12-2006, 22:03
Backup.....love it :lol:

nyk
09-12-2006, 22:05
lol...

std engine, with de-cat and zorst. williams shud run in the high 14s.all day


mine ran 14.6s at best with these mods.



Well apparently you can get 14.1, so either John is a shite driver (which I know he's not) or something isnt right!

zzzzzzzzzzz

richy
09-12-2006, 22:06
id just like to say......


who gives a f**k about 1/4mile ! you want a quick straight liner, buy a drag car :roll:

You're just saying that because you have a 1.2 :lol: :wink:

you not read my location thing? i also have a williams and a valver lol :roll:

Andy P
09-12-2006, 22:06
lol...

std engine, with de-cat and zorst. williams shud run in the high 14s.all day


mine ran 14.6s at best with these mods.



Well apparently you can get 14.1, so either John is a shite driver (which I know he's not) or something isnt right!

zzzzzzzzzzz

:roll:

2 live
09-12-2006, 22:20
lol...

std engine, with de-cat and zorst. williams shud run in the high 14s.all day


mine ran 14.6s at best with these mods.



Well apparently you can get 14.1, so either John is a shite driver (which I know he's not) or something isnt right!

zzzzzzzzzzz



???????? john who??



14.1........yeah its doable with less weight in the car....plastic windows, 1/2 missing doors etc.


think the 14.6 is still about the quickest for spec n trim tbh. not really sure now....but like martins.....take enough metal/glass out the car and the times will fall.......obviously.


for the price of cams, pullies, map, fitting etc. ud be better off gettin an f7r, cos it would work out cheaper, and ud have a more usable power plant, with both putting out roughly the same power.

Martin
10-12-2006, 00:10
Andy's did 14.1 with rear seats out and bucket seats....with same engine mods as my old one, supersprint, exhaust & hillpower chip.

My williams did 13.91 with full cage and 2 seats in....

The best 16v is 15.2......says it all really.

Martin
10-12-2006, 00:15
Andy's also has 185 bhp....I'm a believer, there are some freaky good f7r's out there!

Andy P
10-12-2006, 10:39
Richy i know you dont have just a bug eye.

All this talk makes me want to keep it :lol:

Jamie.
10-12-2006, 13:18
after decat and stripping i believe it starts to get quite expensive... i personally would never strip my williams as its sacred but the next mod(s) im hopefully going for is a reworked head and some cams... btw, what are the options to get cams timed in? i can have a remap from chip wizards but how else can i go about it?

stew
10-12-2006, 13:50
LOL @ this thread. :lol:

Speak to anyone in the know about these engines, and its obvious the result. For the money an F7R is defo the route to take.

Seak to "Craig" on here. His old F7P cammed, headwork (i think), remap was not much quicker than a std F7R. He had spent a bomb on it.

The F7R offers so much more low down torque, which means a lot more than the 13bhp gain over the F7P.

Std F7P is on average 1 second slower over the 1/4mile than F7R.

Look at the "nana" for example. Cams, headwork and remap on 90ishK bottom end is knocking on 200bhp. Would you ever see that kinda power from a supposedly superior F7P???? Costs the same for the cams, headwork and remap on either engine.

Plently std F7R's with breathing mods have ran low 14's.

Martin, Andy P, Midge, 2live, myself...etc

And then there's the driveability of the F7R with better low down torque for track use etc, and camming an engine gives more power, but reduces the driveability as the power range is reduced and often at the top end of the rev range. These effects are much worse on the F7P than the F7R.

If the F7R was a poor building block why are there so many hybrids running around. Its clearly the better route...

nuff said. :wink:

Just IMHO of course! :P

2 live
10-12-2006, 14:06
PMSL!!

Funny you guys all say the F7P isnt worth a toss, and the F7R is the best thing since sliced bread.

Funny that 3 clio experts have all told me to modify an F7P and not start with an F7R as the F7P is stronger. One of them being a place who used to race clio cups.

F7R transplant isnt exactly the most value for money modification after a de cat is it.


Get a stainless, re map and then cams if you can afford it.


who are these expert clio tuners???



name and shame i think ;)

Dancliovalver
10-12-2006, 14:33
i used to love my F7P

lookin forward to havin a thrash with my bottom end on lol!!!!

would anybody be able to give me a rough estimate on 1/4mile times?

nyk
12-12-2006, 13:51
PMSL!!

Funny you guys all say the F7P isnt worth a toss, and the F7R is the best thing since sliced bread.

Funny that 3 clio experts have all told me to modify an F7P and not start with an F7R as the F7P is stronger. One of them being a place who used to race clio cups.

F7R transplant isnt exactly the most value for money modification after a de cat is it.


Get a stainless, re map and then cams if you can afford it.


who are these expert clio tuners???



name and shame i think ;)

LOL

Wayne Schofield and Terry Kings.

midge
12-12-2006, 17:53
the times say it all, my car with completely standard engine bar a de-cat ran 14.7 with a sticking rear caliper, went back later with higher limiter and caliper fixed and it done 14.1 all day long.

a williams engine will set you back 400ish, fitting 350 = 750
cams 400 pullys 200 mapping 300 = 900

The F7R will be quicker than the cammed F7P, and will cost less.

Why is the F7P a better base?

stan
12-12-2006, 18:21
If one of them is an ex cup racer, he is going to back what he's used to.

Its not that you cant get good power from the 1.8, its just that its more costly in comparison to the 2.0.

eg if both engines had exactly the same spec heads, cams and inlet/carburattion system, the 1.8 WILL be down on the 2.0 power wise. To bring it back up to the same power, it would have to rev higher and so more work is required there to allow a higher achievable rpm.

If anybody is considering tuning the 1.8, they really should weigh up the cost versus that of tuning the 2.0. In the end, the 2.0 will win.

Daz.
12-12-2006, 18:25
Why is the F7P a better base?

Because P comes before R :lol:

I have to agree - the overall perfomance gain by swapping to an f7r is untouchable imo..

You may get to the same power if your throw all your £££ at the P and no doubt get good gains but if you've enough money to go down that route then surely in the back of your mind your always thinking what could I have done with the same amount of money and an F7R? :shock:

northy
12-12-2006, 18:36
the times say it all, my car with completely standard engine bar a de-cat ran 14.7 with a sticking rear caliper, went back later with higher limiter and caliper fixed and it done 14.1 all day long.

Carnt count raised limiters mate ! :wink:

Mine has done a 14.89 (full exhuast) and mandys which is fully standard did a 14.91

I recon i could better it now but not by much maybe a 14.7 or 14.8 ! That is with rear seats and spare out !

2 live
12-12-2006, 19:39
^^^^^^like i say......14.6 in that spec ;)



u would have thought wayne would have known better tbh. all the 2.0s hes done lol

as said before, if ur lookin at bhp per £......then its gotta be 2.0. would cost u say an extra £300 to purchase over an f7p, but then as stan says, after uv done head/cams etc, the price being the same to do on both, ud see a bigger increase on the f7r than the f7p.........bhp for £££s ....no contest imo





much the same as buying a valver and then whackin a 2.0 in it and doin the widetrack.....works out cheaper in the long run to sell the valver and buy a williams.

Andyvalver
12-12-2006, 19:44
F7P is a good engine imo. The difference is not alot at all until you get to higher speeds. Williams dont run constant 14's unless modded surely. All the ones on here are modded and standard ones run low 15's dont they????

Martin
12-12-2006, 19:52
totally stnd they will be in 15s.....14s with breathings mods and seats out imo

Valver will be about a second slower

2 live
12-12-2006, 20:03
15.0 with all seats/trim/2x babyseats (recaros arent the lightest ones ;))

and all the shit that comes with a kids day out..toys..etc.


14.800 without babyseats


;)

Zollo
13-12-2006, 10:14
The F7P may well be stronger Nyk, but I've not yet read any tales of F7Rs - even tuned ones - failing because their weak design. So there's really no need to go for the stronger 1.8 and compromise on performance...

northy
13-12-2006, 11:26
F7P is a good engine imo. The difference is not alot at all until you get to higher speeds. Williams dont run constant 14's unless modded surely. All the ones on here are modded and standard ones run low 15's dont they????

Got to dissagree there mate.

As soon as i drove my race car with its F7P engine i noticed the differance between the F7R.

And my F7P is quicker than a standard valver one !

wavy
13-12-2006, 14:02
Andyvalver wrote:
All the ones on here are modded

no :?:

Swervin_Mervin
13-12-2006, 14:29
So to summarise:

The F7R is more powerful and cheaper solution for instant bhp.

The F7P is better engine though. :P :wink:

IMO faster doesn't always equal better. I prefer having to work harder and keep the engine on the boil. Hence why I've never bothered with an F7R and hence why my next motor will require it to be revved like fook.

Daz.
13-12-2006, 18:15
To be fair though you still have to rev the nuts off an F7R to maintain any decent pace... The R to me is quite similar to a P just nowhere near as lazy..

Still got rubbish low down torque even if it is much better than a P

stan
13-12-2006, 18:43
The F7P isnt "stronger"....

It has higher peak piston speeds due to longer stroke, so is closer to the margin of safety in terms of tensile ability of the rods for example, but when we are talking sub 7.5k for eg limits...either are fine.

DaveH
13-12-2006, 20:20
Do williams pistons have cut outs in the skirts and oil sprays underneath, just wondering how similar they are inside.

Also i heard once, that the F7P head is the better base for tuning, i.e. more room for big valves. Is there any truth in this? If so the ideal would be a willy bottom end and tuned valver head

stan
13-12-2006, 20:31
Both have under-piston oil sprays.

Its essentially the same head, the 1.8 just has smaller inlets.

So for e.g, if im fitting 33mm inlets to one, i will tend to use a 1.8 head as they are in abundence, whereas the williams heads are rarer and more expensive. The end result however would be the same.

Andy P
13-12-2006, 21:00
Stan the man 8)

stan
13-12-2006, 22:15
Knows it :lol:

DaveH
14-12-2006, 00:20
Aah right always wondered why people used that setup a lot. I just remember Chris H saying something about there being more 'meat' to the 1.8 head so larger valves can be fitted than in the F7R but maybe thats because the valves are smaller to start with? think he also said the megane head was the best of all for the aforementioned mods.

stan
14-12-2006, 00:39
yeah, he says lots of things :lol:

nyk
14-12-2006, 01:31
The F7P isnt "stronger"....

It has higher peak piston speeds due to longer stroke, so is closer to the margin of safety in terms of tensile ability of the rods for example, but when we are talking sub 7.5k for eg limits...either are fine.

So why is the F7R in the willy set at 6750 standard and not as 7250 like the valver. Modding wise, the F7P is a stronger bottom end to cope with higehr revs and higher performance compared to the F7R. Surely Stan you already know that as there was no space to bore out the F7P to make the F7R, it had to be given a longer stroke to give the extra 200cc. The point is not that a valver engine is any better or quicker than an F7R. But for modding wise an F7P is a better base start than the F7R. A well modified F7P will rev to 8K, an F7R wont. Well not safely anyway and not long before going bang.

stew
14-12-2006, 02:01
The F7P isnt "stronger"....

It has higher peak piston speeds due to longer stroke, so is closer to the margin of safety in terms of tensile ability of the rods for example, but when we are talking sub 7.5k for eg limits...either are fine.

So why is the F7R in the willy set at 6750 standard and not as 7250 like the valver. Modding wise, the F7P is a stronger bottom end to cope with higehr revs and higher performance compared to the F7R. Surely Stan you already know that as there was no space to bore out the F7P to make the F7R, it had to be given a longer stroke to give the extra 200cc. The point is not that a valver engine is any better or quicker than an F7R. But for modding wise an F7P is a better base start than the F7R. A well modified F7P will rev to 8K, an F7R wont. Well not safely anyway and not long before going bang.

sorry but it seems you cant even get the std rev limits correct on each engine :roll:

who cares if a f7p can rev to 8k safely, it needs to in order to deliver its peak power with cams etc, meaning its only ever good at its peak rpm, which happens about 20% of the time during driving. engine power and performance is all about driveability.

just give up with the whole f7p being a better base to mod from than a f7r. bang for buck the f7r is lightyears ahead....

2 live
14-12-2006, 08:31
as above really.


iv seen mine hit the needle on the rev counter....0rpm.....from the wrong side..not for long tho i admit, but the f7r's love to rev as much as the f7ps, possibly more so.


just because an engine will rev higher doesnt make it better. the torque spread diff between the 2 is unreal, and with mods, the f7r just widens the gap.


take 2 std engines..1 f7r, 1 f7p.....both will stand a rev increase of a few hundred revs...usually up to 7100-7200 on the willy (from 6500) and 7500 on the valver (from 7000)......both will rev to 8k..but both will need work to do so safely for any period of time.


the better base to work from is the f7r, nicer town drive, with the added bonus of low down torque for those unexpected overtakes, imo which is safer too,.

the f7r has more power to play with as std, and produces even more with mods, i.e cammed chipped f7p will get u somewhere near 150-160 bhp, same on the willy...up near 170-180, same amount of money spent, f7r sees a bigger gain, but its not just that..its also a much more user friendly engine after the mods, the f7p becoming a more peaky engine that needs the revs to be above 4-5k rpm to really benefit, whereas the f7r benefits from much lower down the rev range.


how the f7p can be a better base is anyones guess.

nyk
14-12-2006, 10:47
ask the experts if you disagree.

As above I never said the F7P was better than an F7R. Only that the F7P is a stonger base for modifying. Which is what I've been advised by people who have tuned, modifyed and raced such engines.

It was Wayne who told me not to bother with an F7R, and rebuild the F7P with new pistons, shells etc as it would be a much stronger base than the F7R due to the shorter stroke in F7P.

I cannot believe that 2 people who above have much experience in these engines would both coincidently tell me the same thing and it be untrue.

2 live
14-12-2006, 11:02
stronger base??


in what respect?


maybe wayne thought u cant handle the power of the f7r??

hes mapped enuff of the f7rs to know about that side of things..actually building them im not sure how much experience he has with em.

i know he knows his shit....but im inclined to disagree with him on tthis one...as said b4...if the said co. only have experience of building the f7ps....then obviously they gunna suggest doin them rather than the f7rs which they have no or little experience of.

iv been told many many things by so called experts too....like danial harper telling me a 1275 mini head wont fit on a 1000 cc block.....the car with both fitted was outside ...i drove it there..he wouldnt come outside so i could prove to him....simply by undoing the 2 bolts holdin the rocker cover on, and looking at the casting no.s of both head (12g940) and block (99h)


like iv said..both f7 r and ps do like to rev.....wayne actually telling me that the shorter stroke engines are happier to rev all day.

northy
14-12-2006, 11:28
id be intrested to see what a race F7p makes on the rollers....Thats a fully cammed, headworked engine with all the trick bits.

2 live
14-12-2006, 11:57
id say about 170

TriO`
14-12-2006, 12:28
A lot of the talk on the french Clio forums sways towards the F7P engine being better if it's going to be seriously modified.

not that i can understand what the hell they are saying... :lol:

i just remember thinking it was a bit strange...

and those lot over in france have got some silly tuned clios ... much more than over here anyway

stew
14-12-2006, 14:32
id be intrested to see what a race F7p makes on the rollers....Thats a fully cammed, headworked engine with all the trick bits.

i thought the clio cup f7p's were just blueprinted running std cams, no headwork. :?

stan
14-12-2006, 18:44
They can easily make as much as 2.0, even more....if you spend more.

Andy P
14-12-2006, 19:34
if you spend more.

Who wants to do that :lol:

2 live
14-12-2006, 22:22
pound for pound tho mate....2.0 is better ;)

david932
14-12-2006, 23:32
when i went to see wayne and had a chat i got the jist he mainly worked on race engines and expensive hi spec ones at that. when he talks about best i dont think cost comes into the equation. when you look at N/A high spec race cars like touring car for example you notice most will rev to 9k+ in that respect i can see where he is comin from with a short stroke being a better base as u wont get as much enursure in the engine at these sort of revs. altho it may well rev all day but race engines rarely last a season before rebuild.

but realistically are you really intended on spending that much to build the engine? are you intending on competing with it?

for most of us who's pockets arn't as deep the f7r can safely produces enough useable power and fun for road use aswel as track days

stan
15-12-2006, 10:37
My F7R revs to 9k :P

DaveH
15-12-2006, 19:58
yeah, he says lots of things :lol:

Yeah ive noticed that but i wondered whether it was just opinion or not lol

cliolord
24-12-2006, 01:18
I have to put my oppinion in here even though its been backed up by others already. F7R is the better way forward than the F7P imo. The torque is the main factor between the 2. You want a fast car, start with a fast car. F7P just doesnt cut it and it's probably a stronger engine because it doesn't put out as much power as the F7R :lol: Plus you get an external water cooled oil cooler on the oil filter mounting as standard ;)

finlay
26-12-2006, 08:39
the times say it all, my car with completely standard engine bar a de-cat ran 14.7 with a sticking rear caliper, went back later with higher limiter and caliper fixed and it done 14.1 all day long.

a williams engine will set you back 400ish, fitting 350 = 750
cams 400 pullys 200 mapping 300 = 900

The F7R will be quicker than the cammed F7P, and will cost less.

Why is the F7P a better base?

just wondering why you put 350 for fitting the williams engine, is that what a mechanic would charge ?

wazza16v
26-12-2006, 11:51
Hey lads the best mod that ive done was to swap over the F7P to a F7R engine, alough i had a very strong valver lump i was tired of thrashing the bollocks off of it to get it going, the thing is with the williams lump you have a better low end torque meaning that you dont have to build up the revs to get it going. No mentioning the tick over , jesus it sounds like V8 (well with a little help from a mongoose full system and de-cat).
But i miss when i used to pop the exhaust with the valver lump blimey it sounded like a shotgun going off.

Nick AKA Wazza16v

Lunner
26-12-2006, 14:50
the times say it all, my car with completely standard engine bar a de-cat ran 14.7 with a sticking rear caliper, went back later with higher limiter and caliper fixed and it done 14.1 all day long.

a williams engine will set you back 400ish, fitting 350 = 750
cams 400 pullys 200 mapping 300 = 900

The F7R will be quicker than the cammed F7P, and will cost less.

Why is the F7P a better base?

just wondering why you put 350 for fitting the williams engine, is that what a mechanic would charge ?

Yeah if not less, i know guys that would do it for a couple of hundred quid cash in hand, its just plug and play, as long as you supply all the parts required

bass_direct
26-12-2006, 19:44
I must have said it before, but the best mod i ever did to my white clio was the f7r!

and the first major engine tuning part i've purchased for my new 16v is a meggy b/e :)

Allan
26-12-2006, 22:43
ok cool im just changing from a williams to a valver cos i need the cash... do you think its gunna be a shock? or not that different?

And this all started from this!

he needs the cash, so hes not going to be pooring money into it making 9k reving engines :P

so in summary decat and strip the interor :P

why would he sell a williams then spend money buying a valuer and making it into a hybrid :P

:D

also F7R or F7P if you going to go mad spending money making it quick just buy an evo or somthing better base to start off with :P

motormadj
05-01-2007, 00:23
ha ha ha. :o

2 live
07-01-2007, 18:38
ok cool im just changing from a williams to a valver cos i need the cash... do you think its gunna be a shock? or not that different?

And this all started from this!

he needs the cash, so hes not going to be pooring money into it making 9k reving engines :P

so in summary decat and strip the interor :P

why would he sell a williams then spend money buying a valuer and making it into a hybrid :P

:D

also F7R or F7P if you going to go mad spending money making it quick just buy an evo or somthing better base to start off with :P

lol.an evo isnt necessarily the faster car tho.......ask danny t how much the evo 7 was holdin me up round oulton....and check martins vid out of the evo holdin him up round..cadwell iirc.


the clios are far too underestimated imo.

stevie_b
09-01-2007, 17:59
lol.an evo isnt necessarily the faster car tho.......ask danny t how much the evo 7 was holdin me up round oulton....and check martins vid out of the evo holdin him up round..cadwell iirc.


I think you'll find that is due to the respective drivers, not the ultimate performance of the car!

northy
09-01-2007, 18:17
id be intrested to see what a race F7p makes on the rollers....Thats a fully cammed, headworked engine with all the trick bits.

i thought the clio cup f7p's were just blueprinted running std cams, no headwork. :?

they are - i just wanted to know if anyone had run a full blown race F7p on the rollers and what mods they had.

MAXIBOY
09-01-2007, 18:53
do turbos count

seanofnp
09-01-2007, 20:56
my engine revs to 8.5k standard and is only a 1.6 and puts out 168bhp standard... put one of these in

2 live
09-01-2007, 22:28
lol.an evo isnt necessarily the faster car tho.......ask danny t how much the evo 7 was holdin me up round oulton....and check martins vid out of the evo holdin him up round..cadwell iirc.


I think you'll find that is due to the respective drivers, not the ultimate performance of the car!


i think ul find otherwise/.......even on a straight side by side run......i have left evos and scoobs.

stevie_b
10-01-2007, 00:01
i think ul find otherwise/.......even on a straight side by side run......i have left evos and scoobs.

Then I would think whatever you have you are running with a fair bit more power than an F7R with the mild mods mentioned here then? Scoobs maybe easy, since the UK model has 215 bhp and a lot more weight than a Clio - STIs are more on a par with Evos. Maybe I'll be surprised one day then - but I know even when I finally finish my hybrid project it is not going to manage 0-60 in 4 and a bit seconds :lol:

VIPERONE
10-01-2007, 08:37
i think just under 5.5 secs is the quickest on here

2 live
10-01-2007, 10:20
yeah think mine was runnin mid 5s pre blow up...but then 0-60 ISNT where its all at. im talkin 100+ etc.

bout 125 the scoobs seem to drop behind...but the few evos iv compared with were roughly 130 ish..

but then the 7 round oulton would have been say 60-120 where he was hooldin me up.


f7r with cams n chip.....quite surprising really lol. even the elises get a good battering (well some of em) by a clio in this spec.

350z s

focus rs

countless scoobs


evos

r32s

etc etc etc.

and the new one feels as tho it could be even quicker ;)

J o n
10-01-2007, 13:18
as 2 live says, you'd be surprised what good power to weight can achieve! I'd have guessed your car pre blow up was running 200bhp or there abouts, certainly one of if not THE fastest F7R mod for mod, as nothing touched it back in the day...

Scooby's and Evo's aint all that anyway, not after seeing an R34 Nurspec completely and utterly rape my mates turbo rice wagon, Scooby felt like it was in reverse!

stevie_b
11-01-2007, 18:20
as 2 live says, you'd be surprised what good power to weight can achieve!

I wouldn't be surprised what good power to weight could achieve at all - that's why my Clio has been pared back below 800kg :lol: I'm just surprised that someone asking about a few simple mods th :lol: at could be made (fairly cheaply) to a valver is being told an "evo isn't necessarily the faster car".


Scooby's and Evo's aint all that anyway

Agreed, but I have seem them take FTDs, which is not something I have seen any Clio manage. But how many people would say a valver with a decat/cams/F7R was quicker? I'd be chuffed if it was true as it would be a whole lot cheaper to run (purchase price, insurance, petrol and parts all a lot cheaper on the Clio) and probably more fun :lol:

bass_direct
11-01-2007, 23:08
as 2 live says, you'd be surprised what good power to weight can achieve!

I wouldn't be surprised what good power to weight could achieve at all - that's why my Clio has been pared back below 800kg :lol: I'm just surprised that someone asking about a few simple mods th :lol: at could be made (fairly cheaply) to a valver is being told an "evo isn't necessarily the faster car".


Scooby's and Evo's aint all that anyway

Agreed, but I have seem them take FTDs, which is not something I have seen any Clio manage. But how many people would say a valver with a decat/cams/F7R was quicker? I'd be chuffed if it was true as it would be a whole lot cheaper to run (purchase price, insurance, petrol and parts all a lot cheaper on the Clio) and probably more fun :lol:


pics

mon
12-01-2007, 01:32
yea .. but wot if a 16v is tailgating a willy and not lost on bend .. who is strong er then?
1/4 mile balls lets get to real World

mate got a 172 and he did not over take me till 125 .. or he is crap driver . he say not oh it was chiped usual mods

sorry to bring it down a bit.. ....03 ...04 ..09 who gives a crap


any way the williams was desighed off the 16v engine maxed out to 2.0 with a diesel cam shaft i.e 13 bhp ... and spec same 0-60 ..

just more touqe 0-100

2 live
12-01-2007, 04:36
as 2 live says, you'd be surprised what good power to weight can achieve!

I wouldn't be surprised what good power to weight could achieve at all - that's why my Clio has been pared back below 800kg :lol: I'm just surprised that someone asking about a few simple mods th :lol: at could be made (fairly cheaply) to a valver is being told an "evo isn't necessarily the faster car".


best value for money mods were the q.....and that happens to be a 2.0 in place of the 1.8......then cams/head/remap were entered into the equation......and as said b4, with these mods, an evo/scoob isnt ness. the faster car. dependant on spec of course.


Scooby's and Evo's aint all that anyway

Agreed, but I have seem them take FTDs, which is not something I have seen any Clio manage. But how many people would say a valver with a decat/cams/F7R was quicker? I'd be chuffed if it was true as it would be a whole lot cheaper to run (purchase price, insurance, petrol and parts all a lot cheaper on the Clio) and probably more fun :lol:

J o n
12-01-2007, 10:13
Evo and Scooby's will batter a standard williams if they are the 280bhp models... unless you have some decent mods, like cams, custom remap etc etc... the UK classic 215bhp effort though is easily kept pace with just basic breathing mods.

Scougar
22-02-2007, 13:12
I just sold my 5 second 200sx + race circuit setup) that would wipe the floor with any williams on here (not to mentioned standard subarus) around a track (with the exception being in the wet or "very" tight courses[Assumption: Not your ability or mine but the cars]..... but could we get back on topic here please?

You guys write off the 1.8 so fast just because the 2litre exists. a 1.8 in such a small car is a big engine.

On a budget cams can be quite cheap, you don't NEED to get vernier pulleys, it just makes it a LOT easier to fine tune, otherwise you have the hassle of unbolting everthing to reposition the cam. Verniers are expensive for what they are. Don't get any exhaust bigger than 2 inches (1.5-2 would be better for torque), and decide on what you want to use the car for. Weekend warrior or everyday car?

Sure everyone loves having a powerful car, but your looking to save cash. Why don't you get your car mapped/chipped to make the car more drivable and a better experience for everyday use? NOTE: remember that you can get your car tuned for economy or for power, and that will vastly change your MPG. It's a critical decision.

Removing the cat will lose you low down torque, only mid-top will benefit from it's removal. Are you sure that's what you want?

Do you need your interior? Do you have kids/mates you drive around? Will save weight and improve fuel economy to remove it, but will gain road noise and lack of function with the car.

Matthew

Zollo
22-02-2007, 13:40
I just sold my 5 second 200sx + race circuit setup) that would wipe the floor with any williams on here (not to mentioned standard subarus) around a track (with the exception being in the wet or "very" tight courses[Assumption: Not your ability or mine but the cars]..... but could we get back on topic here please??

What's that got to do with the price of fish?! Anyway, that's all very well, but as you would have been driving your 200SX and one of us driving our Williams, that's pretty meaningless. Particularly as you haven't got the car anymore! :wink:


but could we get back on topic here please?

Yes Boss :shock:

2 live
22-02-2007, 13:50
5 sec 1/4...now thats impressive.


as u say mate...u can do it on a budget.but tbh... u get wot u pay for. some ppl have great contacts and can get stuff cheaper than most.


most of us have to pay wotever price the suppliers are willing to let u pay.


so for a decent set of cams.ur lookin at bout £400..whether 2.0 or 1.8.

now if u have a 1.8, this money could buy u a 2.0 bottom end, so the choice would be ..2.0 b/e or cams for 1.8.


either way will need a remap to get the best out of, so same outlay.

a chipped williams will be a better evry day drive than a cammed 1.8.

and a better base to add further mods to

so in many peoples view.is better value for money.......its faster for the same price, and has more scope for future tuning. makes sense really.

Scougar
22-02-2007, 14:50
lol @ 5 sec 1/4 mile.. you know what i meant yah tart :P

Zollo: 1) I was giving a comparison, and everyone is basing it on 'car is better round x-track than an evo/scooby'. Did they(williams) pass EVERY scooby on the track, or did they mention if they ever had to let a scooby/evo by? No. Unless you serious about track time, peeps don't mention that. I brought it up because a lot of speak is about giant killing , and wanted to give and example. i.e. SX's quite frequently do 12-13 second 1/4 miles, when mildly modded.

2) I said please and it was a question, not an order.

2 Live > One thing peeps aren't mentioning here is fuel economy. Whats the renault stated MPG for the 1.8 and williams 2.0 ?

I'd be suprised if cams were £400? I have seen many piper fast road cams for around £150-£200 on previous cars, are f7's so different it adds extra cost?

Personally I'd try to make the most of what the 1.8 has to offer and get it tuned/serviced.

Matthew

VIPERONE
22-02-2007, 15:26
cms are £400ish

£ for £ a2l engine is the best mod..

Scougar
22-02-2007, 16:07
lol tart ! :wink:

So what cars can you get the 2L from.. i haven't seen a reply to that yet :(

Matthew

VIPERONE
22-02-2007, 16:09
williams
megane 2.0l 16v
hybrids

renault direct

Scougar
22-02-2007, 17:04
So is the 2L engine on the megane 16v the same as on the williams (inc head?)

I wouldn't want to use a williams engine as they are surely sought more as authentic etc etc

Matthew

MAXIBOY
22-02-2007, 17:07
no its different but can be used. its got different inlet sized ports no dizzy and different inlet manifold. engine no,s are F7R 700 willy and F7R 710 and 714 i believe megane

Scougar
22-02-2007, 17:23
Anyone here run the megane engine then?

No dizzy... now that's interesting :D Full electronic ignition?

Matthew

MAXIBOY
22-02-2007, 17:31
stan,s done it. not worth the hassle. no more power

2 live
22-02-2007, 22:35
lol.both my williams' run the megane block. the heads/cams are both williams items tho. a full megane transplant has been done, but its not really worth the hassle tbh.


and as for pulling over on track...iv done it a few times yes.....one was a well tuned scoob, flans vag powered clio, couple radicals.and i once got boxed in by a focus rs, but he pulled off b4 i got the chance to pass him again....and a trophy being well driven, by a driver i would class as a better driver than myself, he ran in race series' etc, think its was the xr2s canny remember fully lol...altho i had a 1.8 head on the 2.0 meg block this time.


needless to say...he was well impressed with what the willy can do with an average driver behind the wheel.

Scougar
23-02-2007, 14:42
Once I move into new house, get married in May, and get stable with finances, I will give tuning the 1.8 a go anyway. At the end of the day, I can always swap to the 2L block fairly easy it seems, and I like to try and make the best out of things that are underated.

I accept that it doesn't have as much torque, but 1.8 is still a big engine for such a small car. I will use the car everyday I suspect, so better to do small mods rather than a big ass 2L conversion, plus I don't want to remove seats as it keeps the noise down and adds useability.

Personally, I would just like a better more exciting daily drive as this ain't fast enough for me 30-100. Eventually I may be able to afford getting another jap car as my on road excitement, and then keep the clio for track only :) Now that would be cool, As I could spec the engine differently for pure race :)

So the mods he wants are: (in order of importance.. please edit/add as necessary)
1) Air filter (Better less restricted breathing)
1a) Remove interior if you don't care about road noise, it's free.
2) Decat (gain top end torque, lose bottom end torque)
3) Get injectors flow tested/cleaned or use a fuel tank cleaner for injectors.
4) Adjustable fuel pressure regulator (not sure but might be worthwhile if a chip can handle it).
4) Chip (gunner?) (I wouldn't expect rev limit to be moved, as I get the impression reliability is important.
5) Advance ignition, (Might need to use higher octane fuel to avoid det).
6) Uprate plugs 1 grade colder (for safety to avoid det)
7) Do a full service, and use thinner oil (full synthetic preferably) (more power, and car becomes more efficient on fuel)
8) Go faster stripes (adds weight, and drag) :shock:

Matthew

DaveH
23-02-2007, 15:09
Id go with the majority of that although ive had bad experieces with adjustable fuel pressure regs (poor runnig, cutting out, flat spots and unable to set it up to run perfectly- which is what i would want first and foremost) and the ignition is not adjustable on a standard head/dizzy.

From your list the mods that would provide noticable gains are the filter, decat and chip, others are negligable. I hear a decent remap (chipwizards or the like) provides good gains as well although im yet to try this. As said the head is transferable so if your not happy with those gains and poss cams and headwork then you can simply swap to a 2l bottom end.

Scougar
23-02-2007, 15:52
Id go with the majority of that although ive had bad experieces with adjustable fuel pressure regs (poor runnig, cutting out, flat spots and unable to set it up to run perfectly- which is what i would want first and foremost) and the ignition is not adjustable on a standard head/dizzy.

From your list the mods that would provide noticable gains are the filter, decat and chip, others are negligable. I hear a decent remap (chipwizards or the like) provides good gains as well although im yet to try this. As said the head is transferable so if your not happy with those gains and poss cams and headwork then you can simply swap to a 2l bottom end.

Oh man, you have to adjust the ignition by the cam timing? What a pain!

I agree the other mods won't cause that much of an increase, but they will build in safety and claw back some of the performance lost on dirty, worn parts (giving the impression of an increase).

I didn't put cams because they seemingly cost so much, likewise port and polishing.