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david932
04-12-2006, 18:41
after bouncing of a curb the L/h wheel is toe'in in more than it should.

when examining the suspension i noticed the bottom ball joint is angled towards the car and the bottom side isn't sitting flush.

it appears the bottom of the hub is sat slightly further inboard than it should.

my question is what is most likely to be causing this? everything else appears to be straight from what i can see.

my guess would be the strut or the hub . any ideas?

cheers
Mr.AdamB
04-12-2006, 19:26
could be tracking.
david932
04-12-2006, 19:41
it only started happening after i hit the curb, the steering rack is straight and operates fine
david932
05-12-2006, 20:34
:flashbump:

is a valver strut the same as a williams strut?
Laine_16v
05-12-2006, 20:52
Nope camber is diffferent.
Allan
05-12-2006, 21:37
could have bent your subframe or wishbone, check the arb is that still looking ok ?

get some photos :D
fab
05-12-2006, 21:41
get it tracked.
hitting a kerb can damage a number of items starting with the most obvious:
trackrod arm,wishbone,strut,subframe and highly unlikely the stub axle or wheel hub as some people call it.
david932
05-12-2006, 23:01
went to have it tracked and the tracking laser didn't even register on the back flag. :cry:

the guys there had a look confirmed the subframe and rack looked ok

the arms fine, same dimensions as it should be. cant see any stress marks or piant cracks on the subframe. The problem is the bottom ball joint is sat about 3mm inboard (towards the subframe).

i will replace the ball joint first but i cant believe that and only that would cause the tracking to toe in so much

strut then maybe??
Allan
06-12-2006, 11:11
Am i right in thinking that its the ball joint attached to the wish bone which is attached to the sub frame ?

which would mean if the ball joint is in the wrong place its more then likely either the wishbone or the subframe bent, also if its only 3mm out then it might be hard to tell on the subframe, and as the wishbone is quite strong if you push it from the side on it would most likely bend your subframe inwards on its self.
david932
06-12-2006, 18:41
[quote="Allan"]Am i right in thinking that its the ball joint attached to the wish bone which is attached to the sub frame ?

yep

so can the subframe be changed with the engine in situ?
fab
06-12-2006, 20:55
yes it can.there are instructions on the forum on how its done.
dont panic just yet.the wishbone and balljoints are cheap.you could perhaps get a straight strut somewhere and test that also.
it really is a process of illimination and hoping you get away cheap!
david932
11-12-2006, 13:32
is this bent?
david932
11-12-2006, 13:37
is this :gay: or normal?

i can't say i've ever payed close enough attention to tell the differance :oops:

where the first arrow is on the left theres a slight recess and the 2 arrows on the right show the obvious recess's. it's the L/H side of the subframe viewed from the underside just infront of the wishbone.
fab
11-12-2006, 20:50
hi.
Lets try and backtrack a little.
You say the steering wheel is straight and you have had it tracked?
If you got it laser tracked they would be able to determine more than just the Toe.They would also let you know where your camber is at.
Camber out is almost defo a bent component!
Toe on the other hand need not be set to exactly the same degree on either side PROVIDING the wheels are straight and your steering wheel is straight also.

If I where you i would get it laser tracked with a full report.
further to this if you wanted to get the tow straight again get them to go out to -4 degrees or whatever setting is required on the left hand wheel.YES your steering wheel will be off but then it should be a case of just removing the wheel and re-setting it to the central position.
It worked for me :wink:
david932
11-12-2006, 22:00
nope..

when the steering wheel is straight the car pulls to the right, to get it to drive straight you have so turn the wheel left to the 6:05 position. but it's only driving straight then cause both wheels are toe'in in.

sorry forgot to mention that the fella's at the tracking centre said there was no point in trackin it when there was something obviously bent. i assume they could have tracked it (if there was enough threads left on the track rod end) but as there is something bent this will fook up all the steering and suspension geometry when the car is moving or going over bumps.
david932
11-12-2006, 22:01
nope..

when the steering wheel is straight the car pulls to the right, to get it to drive straight you have so turn the wheel left to the 6:05 position. but it's only driving straight then cause both wheels are toe'in in.

sorry forgot to mention that the fella's at the tracking centre said there was no point in trackin it when there was something obviously bent. i assume they could have tracked it (if there was enough threads left on the track rod end) but as there is something bent this will fook up all the steering and suspension geometry when the car is moving or going over bumps.
fab
11-12-2006, 22:05
I will say that the toe will change when the car is moving.so the above should be regarded as a temperary solution as steering may angles will alter.I ended up changing track rod ends with the toe set as it should be and then reset my steering wheel in the cabin for a pulling problem to the left.
Not sure if you have this but it should help in determining the tolerances available on the suspension.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b300/fabtrader/Wheelallignment.jpg
fab
11-12-2006, 22:11
you didnt take it to fast-fit did you?they are complete monkeys mate and cant tell their arse from their elbow!sounds like they just wanted you out of there.
If you do not get it tracked and get a proper laser report then you have no way of even beginning in determining the problem.
It is extemely difficult even for the trained eye to notice if a component has bent or not.
thats all i can say.good luck fella.
david932
11-12-2006, 22:32
na took it to the place with the best rep in the area. im a qualified tec myself but don't have access to any equip anymore :cry:

this situ would be so much easier if i did :(

im very jubious bout takin my car to any garage tho as i know how many monkeys there is out there.

i do agree with wat they say about the geometry tho, it could really destroy the handling if i just tracking it. cheers for the info tho pal, could prove useful.

wat i really need to know tho is if that ^^^ subframe is bent or normal as i have nothing to comare it to
Clio_GTT
11-12-2006, 23:54
i did the same and managed to bend my subframe and shocker :x

replaced it with new willy stuff and its all sound now