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fasterthanjesus
01-12-2006, 08:56
question.

ive a bit of money saved up for some engine work. if you had money to spend, say 2k, what would you do engine wise.

cams? lightened flywheel, balanced crank, porting.?

or would saving up for throttle bodies be a better solution?

or should i factor ramair into the equation?

2 live
01-12-2006, 09:01
a complete rebuild, rings shells mains etc. lighten n balanced bottom end, cams, new pumps, bit of headwork and a remap...should be doable under 2500 and the engine should be pretty much bullet proof for years to come....an ideal base to then start takin the mods a little bit further wen funds allow. ;)


and ul see very good gains.

J o n
01-12-2006, 10:00
as above, bar the rebuild if it doesn't need it. GazTwo's has those mods, cams, headwork, breathing and a remap and 196bhp iirc?

Jamie.
01-12-2006, 10:36
a complete rebuild, rings shells mains etc. lighten n balanced bottom end, cams, new pumps, bit of headwork and a remap...should be doable under 2500 and the engine should be pretty much bullet proof for years to come....an ideal base to then start takin the mods a little bit further wen funds allow. ;)


and ul see very good gains.

you could only do that if you rebuilt the engine yourself. the rebuild kit is about £600 (for everything), proper headwork i.e. not just bowel work is another £600, lighten and balance is £200, cams and pulleys £600 and a remap is £500, so yeh thats spot on £2500. but whether or no you could fit and build everything yourself is another matter.

2 live
01-12-2006, 10:47
depends if u shop about a bit...prices can be had a lot cheaper ;)

2 live
01-12-2006, 10:49
bearing in mind mine cost me less than 2000.including buying the engine and a £400 re-con of the gearbox...with all new pumps belts gaskets bearings rings etc etc etc.

Jamie.
01-12-2006, 10:58
as i say you could only do that if you could do it yourself, no way you could pay someone to do those mods listed as it would probably run into the 4k category

and errmm.... if you ever want to rebuild mine for me :wink: you know where i am....

Purple
01-12-2006, 11:13
Whatever the mods you plan to do, make sure you set aside a sum of money for rolling-road tuning. A decent RR tuning would maximise all the mods that you had put in.

J o n
01-12-2006, 12:03
Whatever the mods you plan to do, make sure you set aside a sum of money for rolling-road tuning. A decent RR tuning would maximise all the mods that you had put in.

your price estimates are well over what I'd have paid and could have had the work done for though, under £2k for that lot easily imo. just need to shop around.

TriO`
01-12-2006, 12:29
lol ^^

Jamie.
01-12-2006, 13:21
Whatever the mods you plan to do, make sure you set aside a sum of money for rolling-road tuning. A decent RR tuning would maximise all the mods that you had put in.

your price estimates are well over what I'd have paid and could have had the work done for though, under £2k for that lot easily imo. just need to shop around.

i take it that was aimed at me.......... firstly i havent actually had any work done as yet, so dont worry i havent paid for anything :wink: .

but if you can show me where i can get that level of engine work done so cheaply, i would happily listen. as long as the work done would be reliable as well as cheap i would be game (seriously).

btw, this is how I have priced them up:
Rebuild £1400 (thats the cheast i can find one, i know that some ppl charge 2k..... BenR, Hill Power, Ktec etc.)
Cams £ 600
Head-work; including new valves and triple edged seats £550 (think that is what richy paid BenR)
Lightened and balance bottom end £200
ReMap £500

Ok so that is £3250, make that £3500 with a couple of unseen costs. However i know that if you went to a few other places for that kind of work it would easily be over £4000.

J o n
01-12-2006, 13:50
I'd not rebuild an engine unless it needed it, but £1400 is what you would pay a tuner I guess, but I'd get the parts and have a go at that myself or get help off someone like 2 live.

Lighten and balance at the garage near me is £140 and they also lighten the flywheel

Remap, £350 on an RR.

Cams and headwork are about right, but engine build I've never pay anthing like that for a standard one to be built back up, no point, I'd be putting forged pistons in instead personally!

stew
01-12-2006, 14:15
nick hill priced me at around 2600 for a rebuild, cams, headwork, remap, with a decent discount iirc.

stan
01-12-2006, 14:55
from me: (as examples)

Rebuild £1380
Catcams camshafts £450-500 depending on spec
Catcams pulleys £200
Headwork £400 for rework on std valves, £750 for 33mm inlets on over-size seats, or custom 35mm inlets POA.

A rebuild isnt just about replacing parts, its also making sure tolerances are as they should be.

Jamie.
01-12-2006, 14:58
nick hill priced me at around 2600 for a rebuild, cams, headwork, remap, with a decent discount iirc.

wow yeah thats a good price, much cheaper than i could ever find. how much discount was that? are you a regular or something?



I'd not rebuild an engine unless it needed it, but £1400 is what you would pay a tuner I guess, but I'd get the parts and have a go at that myself or get help off someone like 2 live.

Lighten and balance at the garage near me is £140 and they also lighten the flywheel

Remap, £350 on an RR.

Cams and headwork are about right, but engine build I've never pay anthing like that for a standard one to be built back up, no point, I'd be putting forged pistons in instead personally!

yeh i would like to have a go myself but the actual refurb kit with all the parts is actually more expensive then i though tbh, so if i did **** it up i would be majorly down.
i think that it would be great to do as a project but seeing as the house im moving into doesnt even have a garage im not sure where i could do a job like an engine rebuild. im pretty sure if i moved the engine into the kitchen i would be moved out lol.
i think by the time i have saved up the maajority of the cash i will have either a.)blown the engine up or b.)proved that it can take a beating, as like you i dont see the point in rebuilding it when its alright what a waste that would be!
prehaps some cams and remap would be a good way to go for now...

J o n
01-12-2006, 15:52
not been funny Jamie and this is no disrespect to our in house tuning guru's, but 2 live rbuilt his own engine and for a car with just basic breathing mods, Kent cams and a remap nothing has come close to it's 14.0 in the same spec and trim level (back seats and spare out) and this was all done in his back yard. For a basic build I'd get someone like Jon to do it and headwork etc leave to the experts, but a basic engine build I cant justify the extra cost, not when it can be done just as well imo for far far cheaper. I'm sure there will be a technical explaination against it, but look at the facts, Jon built his car himself and no one else has come close to that mod for mod.

And yes, as the bottom of your post says, no point, stick some cams on, get headwork and have a remap and that should see you near 190-200bhp imo. I'd only rebuild one if there was a point, as BE's can be had for £300 on low miles, I paid £500 for mine fitted with 24k on it!

Jamie.
01-12-2006, 16:10
if i did have the time and ability or friends (Hello 2Live...... :wink: ) i would deff go the diy route, in the mean time i will just wait till it breaks tbh.
if i did get it rebuilt i would just go for another standard rebuild as i think that is more than adaquate, as well as the fact that they rev so damn low even l&b it would be a waste of £200.
hopefully i will be able to get some cams and pulleys and poss some headwork in near future. maybe headwork first then when i have a grand spare get the cams and remap done at the same time....
problem with head work is; do you get a megane head as the ports are larger and get it machined with basic bowel work, go all out with a valver head or just use the williams head :?

Martin
01-12-2006, 16:48
as well as the fact that they rev so damn low even l&b it would be a waste of £200.

Your not gonna keep the stnd rev limit with cams/remap/headwork so I'd say it's deffo worth doing.

J o n
01-12-2006, 16:52
not sure, cant remember if its the willy or meg head that has the more metal to work with... think the Megane one is better for ITB's, but a fully re-worked Williams head is better... dont quote me on that though as I'm not sure. I'm sure Ben or Stan will be along shortly to tell you for certain.

Jamie.
01-12-2006, 17:53
as well as the fact that they rev so damn low even l&b it would be a waste of £200.

Your not gonna keep the stnd rev limit with cams/remap/headwork so I'd say it's deffo worth doing.

Some people say its worth it and others dont... BenR said that because the engines rev so low it wouldnt make much difference and money would be best spent in other areas. Think 2live mentioned the same thing to me recently as well come to think of it. reckon i will just go for some headwork and cams to begin with anyhow....

2 live
01-12-2006, 22:04
lol.yes.i built mine in the kitchen/back yard. not wholly advisable...but faster cars have been built in tighter working areas lol.


if u really dont want to tackle the work urself mate...id say look stan up, very affordable rates and top guy to do business with.


if like me....ur a tite yorkshireman, its the kitchen/back yard job ;)

if u look up enough, and take note of what comes from where.take pics if u need, and take ur time...shit works out fine. lol


iv found in 5 years + ownership..these engines are pretty much bulletproof....if looked after. the meg lumps been in for about 2-3 years now.ish..and its had a hard life ......still keeps coming back for more and surprising supposed quicker cars...its the boxes i have major problems with lol...after all the abuse i give my car, only once have i had an engine failure, and that was down to the (supposed)uprated parts fitted failing spectacularly .



if u want a good increase in power, drivability etc. id say a set of mild ish cams, set up well, with a decent remap, u will see good gains in power, an easier drive in the heavy traffic believe it or not, and keep the fuel economy til the loud pedal hits the floor. :twisted: :evil:

stan
01-12-2006, 22:38
I totally agree on the DIY aspect...how do you think i started out?!!
The main cost of a rebuild from myself or any other tuning place is the cleaning, measuring, and checking of tolerances.

Engines are hardy...far more than we think often. they will run under most conditions, and in most conditions. therefore its often hard to warrant spending the extra £££ when compared to a non-rebuilt engine, they both "run". however, its about extracting the most from a given specification...thats what the cost is about.

Jamie.
02-12-2006, 16:18
what about the head situation, which is the best to do work on:
Valver, Williams or machined Meg?

2 live
02-12-2006, 19:28
depends really.......id say go for a valver head, new seats with meg valves, and worked ports/chambers


but if u boltin bodies on too...then id go with meg head, dizzy wouldnt have to be messed with dependant on which ecu u use, can use the meg coils etc.

richy
02-12-2006, 19:38
well we know gaz's nana is rapid and about 198bhp, cant remember the torque output...

but his is just a std rebuilt b/e iirc, with cams/headwork and remapped

richy
02-12-2006, 19:48
going off if your engine is ok, id go with just cams/remap and make sure you have decat/system etc

if your engine requires a rebuild then id only go std b/e build, headwork/33mm valves and cams/remap(pulleys aswell in both cases btw)

:D