View Full Version : For anybody who wants to go down the same road as me......
Some of you may already be aware, I bought another valver to make a BEAST of a track car.
Done a lot of work on it and spent a lot of money the last couple of weeks. The engine is currently in bits, but I've had done/doing the following:
2lt Megane bottom end with stronger con rods etc (fully rebuilt with new bearings), lightened crank and fly wheel
Cams in Valver head (Polished and Ported)
Full supersprint mainfold and exhaust system (no cat)
Custom air feed
R1 carbs
I've searched long and hard on the carbs front and I have found a company I thought some of you may be intersted in, if as I say you want to go down my road and strap some carbs to your clio!!
We thought about Throttle bodies, but wanted something different.
Basically they do a drive in drive out jobby for £579.00.
This includes your manifold being custom made and everything, no parts to be supplied. When you collect the car it will have been RR'd to set up the jets etc and they guarantee at least 30Bhp increase (figures based on stock engines). With my mods, they hope to get it near the 190bhp mark.
It's a really small company run by a family in North Yorkshire, and they have done these carb conversions on lots of different cars. I went down last weekend and they have some real fancy machinery there, looks real professional. Plus I got to have a look at some of the work they have done. Including a SX200 on carbs.
My car is going into them in January, followed by its paint job in Feb (blue and yellow Renault F1 colours), hopefully should be out to play on the track days in Spring.
Anybody who is interested in their details PM me.
Plus can anyone help me on the gearbox front??
We fancy LSD, but toying with lots of ideas. There just doesnt seem to be a fool proof box made by Renault anyways. Does anyone know what the actual weak point in the willy/valver boxes is that makes them fail? I ask so we can build a custom jobby. Terry Kings tell me it is the bearings that hold the shaft, they fail and the shaft becomes loose making the gears rip each other apart basically. Dont know how accurate it is tho, and wondered what other people know.
:lol:
olliemk1
10-11-2006, 11:06
That carb work sounds like a bargain...I paid that just for a manifold on my ITR! :lol:
They laser cut the gasket and weld on the mainfold pipes, you can buy the manifold alone from them for around £170.
clowo16v
10-11-2006, 11:57
Thats not bad for a manifold they're a twat to make cos of the oval ports.
Matt
does that price include the actual carbs?? if not how much were the carbs?
Not sure how much the carbs are alone.
The 579 is for everything including the fitting, ie carbs manifold etc etc. They cut out the loom bits off your ECU that you dont need. It is a drive in drive out jobby. No parts need to be supplied or anything.
Don't show me shizz like this!!!! :P
Im trying to make my new valver on a budget :roll:
Thats hella cool price!!!
Not too far either Winston, only Malton, N Yorks.
:lol:
if this is all as good as it sounds, looks like i'll have a willy on r1 carbs next year :lol:
sounds awesome, keep us posted with your progress and results nyk, and nice one for having the balls to try some thing different, hope it all goes to plan fella :twisted:
cough cough
Nyk is short for Nykola.
But certainly will keep the site up to date with the progress.
Pics will be up mid Jan.
Not much to take pics of at the mo as the car is literally in bits in the barn at my Dads farm.
:lol:
lol, oops :oops: .................good work, i'll get my coat :roll:
what are they doing about the ignition system and map?
They tell me they remove the parts of your loom that pulse the injectors, and the ignition is run through your existing coil pack or dizzy.
They also fit an adjustable fuel regualtor to take it down to 2/3psi.
This is how it was explained to me in laymans terms anyways, I'm not up on this sort of stuff. I'm sure it is more complicated than that, but after visiting these guys and seeing some of their work I'm trusting enough to put my car in with them. They seem to know what they are doing and have fitted carbs to lots of different sorts of cars.
Fusionrs
10-11-2006, 17:21
When i went to see Boggy he told me he wouldnt be able to fit bike carbs on the valver due to space issues relating to the angle at which the carbs sat!
Now ive gone out and bought some TBS and this seems cheaper! Doh!
Ive been there a couple of times...they can do the job right enough.
The managment idea worries me tho.
I personally would pay £220 and get an ign only ecu.
When i went to see Boggy he told me he wouldnt be able to fit bike carbs on the valver due to space issues relating to the angle at which the carbs sat!
Now ive gone out and bought some TBS and this seems cheaper! Doh!
Yeah he said it was close to me but they'd make it work.
Stan, prob will get a new ecu, just gonna see how it runs when it comes out first.
:lol:
Fusionrs
10-11-2006, 18:26
Yeah he said it was close to me but they'd make it work.
You must have caught him in a more optimistic mood lol. Shame, i rang him bout this about 6 months ago and hes only 20 minutes down the road from me. I have a mate with his bike carbs on his 205 Mi16 and its a beast!
Hes done some spot on work on my mates valver novas and astras aswell :)
Looking forward to seeing how this turns out :D
Nyk, hold off on the paint job, renault are changing the blue for the F1 car next year!! If you can get hold of a copy of this weeks Autosport they are in there, they are using a darker blue now that Mild Seven are no longer a sponsor.
nice 1 nyk
sounds a good idea and a cheaper option
its gonna be a rocket by the time u have finished :shock:
u and lee are mad speed heads :lol: (not the drug :? )
nice 1 going for the full paint job aswell its handy having ya bro in the bizz
it will look awsome
(might get a quote for my arches soon) :)
here's a question about an idea i was thinking of....
why not get the std inlet manifold. make a plate that matches to the head then weld on some trumpits with mounts on them to except the std injectors then bolt on some GRXR1000 throttle bodies.
Then modify the end to except the std throttle pos sensor.
maybe some headwork and cams while im at it...and cut the subframe to lower the rad out the way. then surely you can get it mapped like a std engine.....
or would that never work.... :roll:
I dont think the std eco could control it.
The MAP sensor would be reading from a significantly smaller volume...meaning pressure cahnges would occur much faster. I dont think the ecu will read the MAP sensor fast enough to keep up with the increased speed of pressure changes in the inlet.
bass_direct
10-11-2006, 19:20
that would never work flan! just like a vag would never run in a clio :roll:
do it! :lol:
bass_direct
10-11-2006, 19:21
I dont think the std eco could control it.
The MAP sensor would be reading from a significantly smaller volume...meaning pressure cahnges would occur much faster. I dont think the ecu will read the MAP sensor fast enough to keep up with the increased speed of pressure changes in the inlet.
get a cosworth map sensor innit man 8) lol
get a cosworth map sensor innit man Cool lol
^^^ :rofl:
BigBoreBri
10-11-2006, 21:48
Oh my i cannot believe ive just read this...
Boggy himself was quite well known back in the day for being good at setting up carbs on vauxhaulls and a few other motors as mentioned above but there's an equal amount of horror stories ive heard! Especailly where EFI is concerned... the words clueless seem to spring to mind... :bomb:
I would be sceptical about fitting bike carbs... let alone by boggys! :shock:
thats thrown a spanner in the works! :shock:
Lads, bike carbs work well enough on the MI16's that the 205 boys run.
Nyk................. Gas it too, you know you want to, just a 75 shot :lol:
i would be extremely upset spending over £500 on the car in one go! fook dat! if it doesnt run then fair enuff! it has to be spent but some of you guys is mad spending shite loads to make it go faster! but it shows alot of your peeps's passion for these darn things :wink:
i'd gladly spend £500 on the car, for those sort of gains
i'd gladly spend £500 on the car, for those sort of gains
crazy!!! :wink:
with the work from BB that i've seen, i've not been overly impressed with the quality or design.
Sure, they make it all fit, but so can anybody with a tig welder, some ally tube and plate, and generous helpings of silicone hose and jubilees.
And yes, to get it running nicely, i'd poke them ALOT about what they are going to do with the ignition system.
After some of your guys comments, I'm gonna take another trip up there before xmas I think.
Go through it all in more detail. They did say I was more than welcome to hang around some of the time they are working on my car??!!
Although, as some of your comments have made me a bit sceptical, Ill go through it all with them again, maybe take some notes this time (yes I am that sad!)
Updates in a few weeks.....
better to ask questions now rather than pay your money and be disappointed though eh? :)
BigBoreBri
11-11-2006, 21:01
Ye i would be very inclined to know exactly what there plans are? Guarranteed Claimed +30BHP increase sounds like something LAD would say! And even then +30BHP means zilch... its all about the torque curve if anything else, you dont just want a huge peaky power band or its gonna feel like ur driving a two-stroke!
Find out exaclty what there plans are and get it in writing! Id also be very inclined to ask if they every worked on a F7R before and to what extent?
You dont want to be the guinnie pig do you... :-&
im fitting them to an Mi16...but using proper ign managment....thats the difference.
i'd gladly spend £500 on the car, for those sort of gains
Ditto
have you looked into this any further nyk, any news good or bad?
yeah I have.
I'm currently lookin at a ign only ECU.
Alhtough I am told you can also do it with a different coil.
i would be extremely upset spending over £500 on the car in one go! fook dat! if it doesnt run then fair enuff! it has to be spent but some of you guys is mad spending shite loads to make it go faster! but it shows alot of your peeps's passion for these darn things :wink:
I hope you're joking mate! If not you need some schooling :lol: That's nothing, people gladly spend that sort of money on an axhaust pipe and induction kit for no gains whatsoever. I'd seriously love to see you get +30bhp on less than that!
cool, glad to see its still in the pipeline 8)
When I first started reading this thread, I was definately considering getting these bike carbs fitted to my clio 16v. However, after some people have come up with potential problems and that the people that do it arent that good, im starting to change my mind.
So could someone tell me, could I get these for my standard 16v? Or wud I need and additional parts and items to make it run better or run at all because for the price and the claimed gains it seems like a good idea? I dont want to spend thousands on the engine of my car, as it is my everyday runaround and dont want to compromise the reliability of my car too badly. I am looking for a rough estimate of between 150/160bhp at the wheels... What would I need with these bike carbs to achieve this??
Also, in the event that I was to get the bike carbs fitted to my car, would it limit the amount of other modifications I could do to my car? So if I was too want more power out of my car, I could it without lots of hassle....
P.S. Im only 18 and not quite as clued up with 16v's/Williams as a lot of the people on this forum, so I would appreciate all the help that the people who reply to this message give.
Nick
david932
27-11-2006, 18:48
similar spec to Nyk 150/160 at the wheels is about 190 at the flywheel
Right, this type of modification is very good...its no differnt to ITB's (aside from the obvious) in terms of do-ability etc...so long as its done right.
There is NO POINT in trying to make it run on the std ecu, when you can buy an ignition only ecu for £200 odd quid, and have it set up SPOT-ON.
So, on DIY basis,
ecu...£200
carbs..£50
manifold...£150
jetting/mapping £200-400
So would you class this as a sound alternative to boddies Stan?
its not really an alternative...both are doing the same thing in terms of removing the plenham and single throttle plate, its just one uses modern technology, the other uses old technology.
its a cheaper option tho, and capable if decent-to-equal power/torque gains if done right.
one thing you wont equal when comparing to electronic control is the ability to salvage some fuel economy!
Also, would having this done affect the MOT on the car?
This sort of modification is no good for an every day car.
the emissions will never pass, it will cost a fortune to run an prob be forever breaking down.
okay, cheers for the info, now i know that it wudnt be worth my while doing it.
Most of the tb'd cars i have seen run just like standard (if set-up correctly)whereas most carb fed cars are a bitch to start and you can tell straight away by the way they tick over/run in general. Also i hate flat spots!!
Stil im sure that there are people out there who are very good at jetting/setting carbs up and there is a massive price difference which is worth serious thought
As Nk said. I dont' think You'll ever pass an MOT with carbs unless your car had a carb in the first place. If you have an old pre-cat motor like a 205 and its set up really well I think it could pass. But a Clio won't
i disagree,,,,
for a start, tell them the engine is from a 1992 R19 16v and they have to test for non-cat...as it goes on the age of the engine not the car.
secondly, good ignition control will allow u to lower HC emmisions by retarding timing (another reason to go for a proper ecu), and im sure the jetting and idle mixtures can be tweaked to get passed CO.
What so when my MOT comes, i dont have to swap my de-cat if I tell them the engine is from a 1992 19 16v? :D
basically yes.
your not lying, F7P's WERE fitted to 19's at that age.
same to clio's. very early phase 1's were all pre cat. like mine!
Nice one :D would saying that work with an F7R though? Would they check, plz dont get my hopes up and tell me ive gorra put my cat bk on now. The de-cat is welded in. lol.
not gonna workon an f7r, they started on L plate i'm afraid
Gutted.
But could I just tell them its an F7P?? :wink:
but if emissions are different forthe engine then it might not pass anyway.
u can usually get away with saying an F7R is and F7P at a test station, they arent the most vigilant of places :D
Personally I wouldnt bother trying it, especially as there is no free re test anymore.
VIPERONE
28-11-2006, 19:32
retests are free on emissions-still.
Nice one might aswell try it lol
Andyvalver
28-11-2006, 21:25
Just slip the guy a tenna and ask him nicley to pass the emissions :wink:
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