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View Full Version : Can only select 5th gear since accident (ALL FIXED! Thanks!)


jwarren2k2
09-10-2006, 21:31
As some of you know, i had a wee accident which resulted in a few bent components.

All the stuff me and my mates could see wring with the car have since been replaced, but me being a numpty, didn't check the gearbox after the crash. Its sat on my driveway at the mo and when we got all the new parts fitted last night, i sat in the car and tried to select gears. No luck whatsoever apart from 5th gear.

When you go to put it into any gear apart from 5th, it feels like there's a brick wall infront of it, but 5th slots in nicely. i was in 2nd or 3rd when i had the accident if this helps?!

Do you think this calls for a new (second hand) gearbox?

Also, since putting all the new parts on the driver's side (driveshaft, strut, wishbone, track rod and end) the wheel still sits at a funny angle, the top of the wheel is poking outwards, and the bottom poking inwards.
Im not sure if I've been supplied with a short driveshaft or if the differential has been compressed further inside the gearbox. there's no g.box oil leak at all either.


I'll get some pictures up tomorrow to help you all understand.

Any help much appreciated,
James
VIPERONE
09-10-2006, 21:33
get it laser tracked.
check gear selector rod for bends, also you may need to readjust the rod itself, to fine tune the selection.
the tracking will be out if youve replaced it
jwarren2k2
09-10-2006, 21:40
its more major than that gunner.its probably about a 15 degree angle through a vertical axis. the linkage doesn't look bent, me and a mate checked it over this evening. i'll have ago at adjusting it tomorrow hopefully.

about the 'short driveshaft/compressed diff', the angle has made the strut come out at an odd angle too. best way to describe it at the mo without pics is like this... '<' imagine the top of the arrow to be the strut angle, and the bottom to be the angle of the disc/wheel looking from the front of the car towards the drivers side. obviously its exagerated but it gives a better idea?!


James
VIPERONE
09-10-2006, 21:53
well unless the subframe is bent then its wont be anything to worry about.
check the wishbone is correct for the car, also check the correct bolts have been used to fix the ball joints to the wishbone.
tighten the hub nuts up...and fiddle with the tracking.. i counted the amount of viable splines when i overhauled the front end, i matched it on my new stuff.. the tracking was out by miles.. it was off the scale...one to bear in mind..
i wouldnt worry though... just get your keen eye on the job
jwarren2k2
09-10-2006, 21:59
as far as i can see, the subframe is ok, and ive quadruple checked it to make sure!

i think i might take it all apart again, and fit it all again.

the wishbone is all correct, cos before i fitted all the new parts, i matched them all the best i could with the old bits (although they were all bent) and it all seemed spot on. all joints and bolts are fine.

where the disc/hub and strut are sitting at a funny angle, its making the bottom of the strut sit about 1mm from the cv gaitor, whereas on the other side, its about 15mm?!

Any ideas?

I appreciate ur help alot! ur slowly enlightening me! :wink:
stan
10-10-2006, 00:17
the turret hasnt come away from the inner-arch area has it?? check for gaps in the seams on the inside of the engine bay.
george
10-10-2006, 08:49
The gearbox will be stuck halfway in reverse gear.
As there is no detent on revese it can be engaged by a side impact.
Remove the fifth gear tin cover and using a thin bent screwdriver or some strong bent wire reverse gear can be deselected by pulling it outwards.
Chris H
10-10-2006, 09:10
The gearbox will be stuck halfway in reverse gear.
As there is no detent on revese it can be engaged by a side impact.
Remove the fifth gear tin cover and using a thin bent screwdriver or some strong bent wire reverse gear can be deselected by pulling it outwards.

I was gonna say that as well.

theres a chance its also engaed 2 gears at once. Again what george said will have to be done.
jwarren2k2
10-10-2006, 10:08
George and Chris H, excuse my ignorance, but how do i remove the '5th gear tin cover'. does it involve taking the gearbox off and opening it up, or can it be done whilst in situe?

what is the full procedure for doing this please?


stan, the turret is fine, i checked all that last night using a torch and all was fine, no light coming through.


Thanks guys,
James
Chris H
10-10-2006, 10:12
the tin cover on the passenger side, its held on with 3 13mm bolts. Theres a rubber ring seal thing in it. There will be some oil loss but shouldn't be much. You can do it through the wheel arch after the liners etc are removed.

When its off you will see the 5th gear selector, look behind it and theres rods in holes, these move the selectors in nueatral they shoudl all be inline and out if thats the right way to word it. You will see what I mean when you get the cover off
jwarren2k2
10-10-2006, 10:21
yeah, im pretty sure i can picture it correctly. i'll hopefully give it a go today. Im going to put a gazebo up over the car so i can work on it in the rain today!

thanks for ur help! just out of curiosity, are you a mechaninc cos you've answered just about all of my questions for fixing my car up again?!
Chris H
10-10-2006, 10:29
mechanic is beneath me I would like to think.
jwarren2k2
10-10-2006, 11:03
haha, good answer!

the tin cover isn't the bit where the passenger driveshaft goes into the gearbox is it? the kind of triangular thing? if not, where abouts is it? just so i dont do anything wrong!
Chris H
10-10-2006, 11:24
no that holds the gaiter in.

the big black/green/white depending on box end cover. Under the box mount/battery tray
jwarren2k2
10-10-2006, 14:04
ok cool, thanks. do you think this will help the angle of the driver's disc/hub/wheel, or will this only cure the gearbox problem?

i'll be happy either way really! thanks again.
northy
10-10-2006, 14:15
this will just allow you to check the gearbox problem mate.

The angle (camber) of the front hub is another problem entirely. That could be bent subframe, wishbones, struts, hubs, ball joints or steering rack.
jwarren2k2
10-10-2006, 14:32
ok, thanks northy.

ive replaced everything on that list apart from the subframe though, and to me, the subframe looks exactly as it did before, and there doesn't seem to be any sign of movement on the mounts or any other nuts/bolts around the engine bay! its really confusing me!
maybe i should just replace the subframe anyway, but what if its not that?!
northy
10-10-2006, 15:37
is your wheel still at the incorrect angle mate ? can u get a picture ?
big hp
10-10-2006, 15:45
TBH i'd of changed the subframe as well considering the impact it took.
jwarren2k2
10-10-2006, 18:48
northy, yes it is still wrong... think i'll do what most people have said and replace the subframe!

i'll post up some pics in a moment so you can see it.

im not too sure what to do about the gearbox either... ive got the tin cover off, but im not sure what to do with the rods. i see them, but accidently knocked one in when fiddling! :oops:

you'll see what it looks like in the pics shortly
jwarren2k2
10-10-2006, 19:14
PICS!!

they're quite big, but atleast there's some detail!

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f346/jwarren2k2/Crash/Crashes045Large.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f346/jwarren2k2/Crash/Crashes047Large.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f346/jwarren2k2/Crash/Crashes051Large.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f346/jwarren2k2/Crash/Crashes052Large.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f346/jwarren2k2/Crash/Crashes053Large.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f346/jwarren2k2/Crash/Crashes054Large.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f346/jwarren2k2/Crash/Crashes055Large.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f346/jwarren2k2/Crash/Crashes059Large.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f346/jwarren2k2/Crash/Crashes060Large.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f346/jwarren2k2/Crash/Crashes064Large.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f346/jwarren2k2/Crash/Crashes079Large.jpg


Just use paint or something to circle bits to show me what should be pushed in/out on the gearbox please!

Much appreciated guys, thanks.
george
10-10-2006, 22:05
As in the pic
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f346/jwarren2k2/Crash/Crashes060Large.jpg
You can see the box has 5th gear engaged and also revease.
Revearse is held in and out of gear by a ball and spring behind the u shaped pressed steel keeper.
jwarren2k2
10-10-2006, 22:24
do you mean the big thing with the black tips, or the small thing near the bottome with the blueish dot on it? and what is it i need to do?

thanks
george
10-10-2006, 22:35
The part that is in blue.
Remove and there will be a ball and spring behind that holds reverse in gear to stop it jumping out.
Get your arse outside into the garage and have a go!!!
The problem has been solved.
Trust us.
jwarren2k2
10-10-2006, 23:04
i officially just had my arse habded to me didn't i!
i'll do it in the morn, not got work till 1130!

any ideas on the subframe cos surely if the subframe was bent, it'd be well obvious considering the amount the disc/wheel is bent over?!
Laine_16v
10-10-2006, 23:12
Looks like the drivehsaft you have on is too long? :?
cliopete
11-10-2006, 01:33
The length of the drive shaft shouldn't affect the steering geometry. It looks to me like you have bent the stub axle or fitted the wrong strut ie Williams instead of 16v.
northy
11-10-2006, 07:43
thats what i was thinking pete - what strut have you got fitted on there mate as it looks to have the wrong fitment for a valver. You havent got a williams one on by mistake have you.

The subframe looks ok on the pictures - and dont forget to renew the gearbox earth when you have finished.
Chris H
11-10-2006, 08:11
the new strut looks bent to me.
northy
11-10-2006, 08:18
must be your eyes chris :winkey:

Its defo the wrong strut looking at it again mate.
Chris H
11-10-2006, 08:31
look at how the spring sits on it, the damper piston is way off so the side. Looks like the spring cups bent to me.
northy
11-10-2006, 08:35
eye it is - but its the hub to strut holes thats got my attentions.
Chris H
11-10-2006, 08:40
ahh well noted northy
jwarren2k2
11-10-2006, 09:32
i think you may all be right about the strut! defo looks different! i bought them off egay and it said 'sepecifically for the 1.8 16v clio'! for goodness sake! think im gona be demanding a refund!

im gona go outside in a bit and compare the new and old struts again, i compared the heights before, but the were the same, didn't compare the hub holes!

i'll let ya know how it goes...

thanks,
james
jwarren2k2
11-10-2006, 10:21
right, ive adjusted the gears, but now it only goes into revers, 1st and 2nd, not 3rd or 4th, and doesn't move across to go into 5th... pics...
(i did move the 5th gear selector outwards cos we pushed it in l;ast night so i pulled it back out, was i meant to?)

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f346/jwarren2k2/Crash/Crashes084Large.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f346/jwarren2k2/Crash/Crashes085Large.jpg



as for the strut, these are pics of my old one next to the new one... they look the same to me?! :?

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f346/jwarren2k2/Crash/Crashes083Large.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f346/jwarren2k2/Crash/Crashes082Large.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f346/jwarren2k2/Crash/Crashes081Large.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f346/jwarren2k2/Crash/Crashes080Large.jpg




what you think guys?!
Chris H
11-10-2006, 10:30
5ths to far out

is th ewishbone right? shoudl be the same length as the othe rsides
jwarren2k2
11-10-2006, 10:32
yeah, the wishbone looked ok compared to the old one, i'll measure it tho

so the 5th selector needs to be pushed back to where it was then?!
northy
11-10-2006, 10:34
strut looks ok mate.

As chris says - what wishbone do you have
Chris H
11-10-2006, 11:06
no justy pushed down a bit. See the gold ring? thats the synchro ring, it shoudl cover that, when its right down it engaged on the dog teeth on the actual gear cog itself. Liek ti was in the early pic.
cliopete
11-10-2006, 11:32
Strut looks OK, it must be a bent stub axle/hub carrier, the bit that the bottom of the strut bolts to.
northy
11-10-2006, 11:46
Just out of intrest - did you manage to get the two hub to strut bolts in ok ???

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f346/jwarren2k2/Crash/Crashes051Large.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f346/jwarren2k2/Crash/Crashes052Large.jpg

The drive shaft on the damaged side is not located propally mate (when compaired to the passenger side). Look at the gaitor. Is the drive shaft fully tightened up ?

I would say next compair the old wishbone to the new one - as if the wish bone was further out it would add more camber to the wheel.
stan
11-10-2006, 13:04
Thats got +ve camber...the wishbone would have to be shorter. worth checking still tho.

I think the hub is bent. If you line the bolt holes up...they seem to be at a steeper angle on the ****ed side.
northy
11-10-2006, 13:07
thats why i asked if they went in ok, im suprised he got two in lol
stan
11-10-2006, 13:09
so its not just my eyes then?!
northy
11-10-2006, 13:11
lol dont u start heehee
Chris H
11-10-2006, 13:33
if it was bent the shaft wouldn't slide in at all.

The crack and break up, they don't bend.

And stand + camber, no shit sherlock eh. You not gotta talk to chet?
stan
11-10-2006, 19:36
What you drivvelling on about the now?!
Zek
11-10-2006, 20:00
Strut looks OK, it must be a bent stub axle/hub carrier, the bit that the bottom of the strut bolts to.

first i thought it may have bin the wrong shock but after now looking at all
the pics i also think its the hub.
Zek
11-10-2006, 20:04
yep bent hub.
jwarren2k2
11-10-2006, 21:07
northy, the bolts were hard to get in, they took a little knocking to get them in...

as chris said, the hub is cast, so surely it would just snap instead of bend? tomorrow evening, i'll take it all apart and try to compare the hub with the passenger one, but there's no signs like stress marks on the hub?!
cliopete
11-10-2006, 22:24
Nooooooooo. The hub is a steel forging not a casting and will bend just like a steel bar, otherwise it would shatter as soon as you hit a pot hole or a roundabout (sorry) :wink: Just out of interest how much have you spent so far?
jwarren2k2
11-10-2006, 22:33
ahh, ok! how much would a new/second hand hub be do you think?

ive spent £242 so far for 2 new shocks, new driveshaft, new wishbone, new track rod and 4 ph2 wheels with tyres!

why do you ask? do u think ive spent too much and shouldn't have bothered?
cliopete
11-10-2006, 22:44
No I don't think you have spent too much, judging by the condition of the rest of the car (except for the sill as I mentioned before) Matt Brown is prob the best person to tell you the price of a second hand/new hub, he may even have one :lol:
jwarren2k2
11-10-2006, 22:46
the sill can be sorted by my uncle which is handy! he does things uber cheap for me! :wink:

i'll ask mat then, and winston! anyone else?! lol
northy
12-10-2006, 08:01
you might as well change the front wheel bearings when you swap the hubs mate.
jwarren2k2
12-10-2006, 08:20
what's that like to do? do they need to be specially pressed?
northy
12-10-2006, 08:44
if you dont have the tools - then yes.

You need a vice, hammer, hydrolic press & new wheel bearings.

From what i remember New Hubs are around £80 from Renault as i bought a brandnew one from renault for the racing car. (the bit the wheel bolts to, not the large hub the strut bolts to)


Knock the centre hub out with the round part of the hammer (the bit the wheel studs go into) then using a suitable sized socket press out the race of the bearing in the hub. fit new bearing into hub and press down using the old race as a insert. Then press in your centre hub.

No doubt chris can do these in his bedroom with just a toothbrush as a leaver - but i had to use a press a guy had down the road from me.
jwarren2k2
12-10-2006, 21:29
i shall bare all that in mind northy!! thanks alot! might have to take it to a garage then cos im not sure i know anyone with a press!

Good news tho... i got the gearbox working!! :D

A massive thank you to george and chris for the help with this as i was so worried about it first of all! the feeling of all 6 gears was amazing! lol

i'll put up some pics shortly of the hub! doesn't look too bad, but its defo bent! lol
jwarren2k2
12-10-2006, 21:41
pics of the hub! does look on the p*ss a bit!


http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f346/jwarren2k2/Crash/Crashes087Large.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f346/jwarren2k2/Crash/Crashes099Large.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f346/jwarren2k2/Crash/Crashes100Large.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f346/jwarren2k2/Crash/Crashes101Large.jpg



What ya think then?
cliopete
12-10-2006, 23:06
It definitely looks bent on the second photo down. If you draw a line through the two strut mounting holes it seems to pass through the ball joint pinch bolt when in fact it should pass through about the first hole on the ball joint to wishbone mounting. The only way to be sure would be to compare it with a new one, or get someone to post a pic of an unbent one.
northy
13-10-2006, 07:58
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f346/jwarren2k2/Crash/Crashes100Large.jpg

looks bent on that one mate.

Get another hub and trial fit before you get new bearings in....im sure this will see you right.
stan
13-10-2006, 09:33
if it was bent the shaft wouldn't slide in at all.

The crack and break up, they don't bend.


:D
stan
15-10-2006, 13:49
Did you replace the hub mate??
jwarren2k2
15-10-2006, 14:25
I haven't done yet mate.. Just bought a pair off SamboRT! Ive got a day off thursday so if the hubs get here before then, i should have the beast back on the road! Then I'll get it to my uncles to sort the sill and get the new wheels sprayed black with polished lip to match the rears!

I will keep you all informed on how it goes on thursday!


Thanks again for all of your help! This forum is the dogs danglies!!

James :D
Chris H
15-10-2006, 20:37
yeah thats fooking bent. First bent one I have seen.

Seen the caliper mouting tabs bent slightly after fitting a bearing. But never the mounting, seen plenty of fractured ones.

Same with rear axles they fracture instead of bending normally.
jwarren2k2
15-10-2006, 20:46
haha! that's why i looked past it at first cos there are no signs of it bending or fracturing! oh well! just sent the payment for some hubs, so hopefully i'll be sorted!
northy
16-10-2006, 13:17
:D
jwarren2k2
19-10-2006, 21:06
Got it all fixed last night and took it for a first test drive!
all seems good!

Got the tracking sorted today... it's now spot on!
Spent the evening sealing the sunroof too so I hopefully won't get any leaks ever again!

Can I just take this mometn to say a massive thank you to everyone that's helped me out! Its really appreciated!

Gona get a couple of other bits sorted to get it spankin' again, then after xmas probably have to let the beast go! It's ashame really cos the engine is really good and strong! Well, thats what BBPT said anyway! May have to make way for a willy 3 though!

Got a couple of months yet tho!

Thanks again,
James
northy
30-10-2006, 08:52
glad its all worked out well mate !