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View Full Version : The end for my Clio?



J o n
24-04-2005, 09:42
well oil pump has pretty much certainly failed I'm told and more than likely destroyed or at least severely damaged my bottom end. I need somewhere to inspect it so I know how and why it died as my car is only on 75k... it's prolly just one of those things coupled with my catastrophic bad luck but I need to get it checked out either way. Anyone know anywhere that can check it out... once again I'm assuming this will be majorly expensive, so if it is the worse case scenario I'll break it for parts if anyone's interested. Pretty much everything in the car is new... gutted.

FlamingMonkey
24-04-2005, 09:45
Shit dude sorry to hear that

J o n
24-04-2005, 09:51
me too m8, had it with this car now, every time I start to enjoy it something goes seriously wrong... I cant understand it either, I let the thing warm up, I drive it sensibly most of the time and every now and again open her up if there's something that wants a blast. It's regularly serviced too and low miles... so I really cant understand how this has happened :cry:

Oh well **** it, I'm not throwing good money after bad at this car, already spent over 10k, so it's getting beyond a joke now as this is most likely serious £££ yet again... so you may be able to get some cams for your car afterall Rob...

Enid
24-04-2005, 10:19
Hard lines mate, maybe the cars just a bad un? Hope you can get it sorted though mate.

dannyt
24-04-2005, 10:24
sorry to hear about that Jon, lets hope it doesn't cost too much and you get it all sorted......could it have anything to do with the car not being able to cope with the cams?

As it just seems to go from bad to worse when you put these in, martins old one, now yours.....however on the other side you get examples like Jon's, martins new one and adi's old!!!!

So is it worth the risk?

J o n
24-04-2005, 10:40
god knows m8, i've no idea what to think anymore, i'm just soo gutted this has happened... it's the last thing I expected really m8. the bottom line is it's getting fixed and sold if it's the bottom end that's gone.

VIPERONE
24-04-2005, 12:50
:lol:

well as i said the oil pump is about £140,.. labour would be free if me john or winston mess... an easier option would be to buy a bottom end from a megane.. then get the head rebuilt by the company i know that specialise in cylinder heads(£90)

a megane botom end would cost a couple of hundred £... i know where there is a 36k one...
thats an option.
it'd be a quick swap over, about a days work, if no cylinder head rebuild needed (i'd get it done at that prce and considering the prob)

NickFr
24-04-2005, 12:56
Really sorry to hear this news Mate, chin up gutted for you :(

Irish Nut
24-04-2005, 13:08
Shit Jon, really gutted for you mate, you have not had much luck with her....i hope you can get it sorted and it ain't cost to much.

I can recommend Riverside if you need diagnostics carried out to source why it failed.

Hope you get it sorted soon mate.

Winston
24-04-2005, 13:16
Shit man!!!!!......as gibbo says were here to help if you need any.

Hope you get it sorted asp.

stan
24-04-2005, 17:44
sorry to hear about this mate.

on the brighter side, as long as it hasnt smashed through one of the bores it can sorted fairly easily...

crank regrind and shells/rings...£150-200 ish

oil pump £70 ish from motor factors

just depends whether u want to put the time into it.

Craig

MatBrown
24-04-2005, 17:47
Sorry to hear that mate.

Hillpower has a couple of Williams engines in stock if you need one.



Mat.

northy
24-04-2005, 18:23
dont give up with it now jon....get it sorted and then there is nothing else major to go wrong....like you said everything else if new.

Mate - it will happen to all of us at some time ! But its the price we pay for running these performance cars.

GazTwo
24-04-2005, 18:25
Sorry to hear this Jon, well gutted for u mate....hope it's not as bad as it seems.... :roll:

Martin
24-04-2005, 18:34
Know how you feel fella...hopefully the engine is'nt Ko'd....and it can be fixed and back on the road soon!

J o n
24-04-2005, 18:36
i'll get it sorted and prolly call it a day Northy, it's cost me over 10k for a 10 year old car... I did seriously think what else could possibly go wrong. The answer is everything. The head will probably be the next thing to fail i'd imagine, but if not that it will be something else. I mean if a 75000 mile bottom end and oil pump can just go like that then I dont see why the whole thing cant, I must have bought a dog of a Williams... even an inspection wont tell me how or why it happened. It's frustrating, I wouldn't be as arsed if I abused the car, but i've not

NickFr
24-04-2005, 18:52
Just sleep on it Jon, there has not been a day gone by where I have not thought exactly the same, I paid more money than some real minters in UK and have already spent over a grand in two Months! I have thought about cutting my losses and buying something else, but can't see it through....just trying to make you feel better mate, probably failed miserably :cry:

Slithers
24-04-2005, 23:49
Agree with Nick here m8 completely, look into what we talked about and give it a few days thinking.

You'd lose even more money, especially with the replacement car you were suggesting.

J o n
25-04-2005, 08:10
well I'm gonna do the stupid thing (to me) and throw good after bad money once again... so if anyone hears of any cheap low miles Willy/Megane engines with history let me know... as failing that I'll be buying a complete Spider engine, but cheaper the better at the moment... not too cheap mind, dont want it breaking... lol

KingStromba
25-04-2005, 09:12
Good man. Rebuilt megane engine may make her even quicker.

J o n
25-04-2005, 09:13
we'll have to wait and see... I doubt it will be quicker tho, my car was flying upto the point of it's death :(

Slithers
25-04-2005, 09:22
M8 im glad you've made that decision, you would have regretted it forever had you got rid of the divine williams.

Swervin_Mervin
25-04-2005, 09:57
****ing hell Jon. Gutted for you mate. Like northy says though mate if you remove that final weak link (the engine) hopefully it'll be sorted.

Allan
25-04-2005, 10:02
yeah get a bit more power in it ! :)
im expecting the worst from my valver engine, its makign funny noises from the cams .. :shock:

J o n
25-04-2005, 10:16
thing is the engine was in fantastic condition bottom end wise, just the pump that caused it's death... :(

I hope the new block is a fast...

Mark_Ritchspeed
25-04-2005, 10:20
Really sorry to hear this Jesus. :(

Unfortunately its not that uncommon for an older bottom end to have problems when coupled with a beefed up top-end. Its something I have experienced a couple of times with flowed heads and cams on a standard bottom end. Although everything initially seems fine its not long before the extra stress on the worn bottom end becomes too much. Although this is not always the case as I have also put head and cams on engines with over 100k miles on without problems.

When you do get a new bottom end sorted it might be worth also seeing if you can source an uprated oil-pump if these are available for the Clio lump. I am by no means a specialist on the Renault lump, but generally on modified engines a standard oil-pump can be a weak link.

Anyway, I will contact a couple of people and see if any engines are available, if not it gives you an opportunity to bore yours out to something like a 2.1. :D

FWIW I contacted our local Renault dealer to see if any short engines are available, but unfortunately only complete engines are sold on an exchange basis.

J o n
25-04-2005, 10:32
yeah, the bottom end is usually bullet proof on these I heard... but obviously mine has now taken a hammering due to not having oil in. I spoke to Ben and I'm gonna get a new bottom end and see about an uprated oil pump as that's what apparently caused the failure. I couldn't say one way or the other about the cams though, as they shouldn't really have stressed the engine enough with em not being timed in...? maybe? lol

Gibbo said the oil pumps can be had for £140 or an OE one, so how much are the uprated electric ones... think i'll check GSF and BB out...

Mark_Ritchspeed
25-04-2005, 10:41
Cheapest electric uprated pump in Demon Tweeks is £168+vat. :shock:

Is there not an uprated mechanical pump that fits into the oe fittings?

y0z2a
25-04-2005, 11:18
Sorry to hear mate.

Did it fail as you were driving it hard, or just pootling about?

/y0z

J o n
25-04-2005, 11:41
Mark, dunno pal, i'm fairly clueless on these sorts of issues... lol

Yoz, nah, was doing between 70-80 as I dont speed at all really, unless there's something worth having a play with. So going down the M62 and the oil pressure went to nowt... which concerned me... then a funny noise from the engine, so I took it out of gear and costed up the slip road and round the RA and parked up and left it there. As I got onto the slip road the oil warning light came on, so I just switched if off and left it on the hard shoulder of some A-road as I went to the RR... no point letting it ruin your plans eh?

KingStromba
25-04-2005, 11:41
Really sorry to hear this Jesus. :(

Unfortunately its not that uncommon for an older bottom end to have problems when coupled with a beefed up top-end. Its something I have experienced a couple of times with flowed heads and cams on a standard bottom end. Although everything initially seems fine its not long before the extra stress on the worn bottom end becomes too much. Although this is not always the case as I have also put head and cams on engines with over 100k miles on without problems.

When you do get a new bottom end sorted it might be worth also seeing if you can source an uprated oil-pump if these are available for the Clio lump. I am by no means a specialist on the Renault lump, but generally on modified engines a standard oil-pump can be a weak link.

Anyway, I will contact a couple of people and see if any engines are available, if not it gives you an opportunity to bore yours out to something like a 2.1. :D

FWIW I contacted our local Renault dealer to see if any short engines are available, but unfortunately only complete engines are sold on an exchange basis.

I am no mechanic, but all the people i have spoken to have stated that a Williams bottom end on 75k should be in very good health. On 140,000 my bottom end was in fantastic condition. Very little wear. I really do not think this is a 'luck' issue here. I feel its more a bad workmanship issue. Not naming names or stating that anyone is out of their depth.

J o n
25-04-2005, 11:47
Rob, imo no one is to blame, it think it's just one of those things. The bottom end didn't fail, the pump did which has caused damage to it, as my bottom end has been inspected and was in fantastic condition. It's prolly a spun bearing causing the bottom end death, but apparently even the likes of myself could fix that given enough time! lol

Mark_Ritchspeed
25-04-2005, 12:51
To be fair, I wouldnt be so quick to diagnose bad workmanship. An oil pump really can fail at any time, even if its brand new.

In the past I have refused to honour a warranty on a heavily modifed Metro Turbo engined Mini that I had built. In short I didnt want to sell the car until I had run the engine in the way I wanted it to be done, but the customer simply didnt want to wait the month or so it would take for me to put the necessary mileage on the engine and run it in the way I like.

He had the car with only 30 or so miles on the fresh engine and I informed him on how to run the engine in with the running-in oil. A month later the car came back with smoke bellowing out the exhaust as the rings had broken. Within a couple of days some of HIS friends had been telling me how the first week he had the car he had been redlining the engine and doing full throttle launches dropping the clutch at 7000rpm. I'm surprised it didnt go bang the first week he had it.

For his stupidity I had my name dragged through the mud, but I steadfastly refused to budge on this issue. If the engine had been run sensibly for the first month or so and 500 odd miles I would have honoured any warranty fault with the engine. As it happens he ignored my instructions and lost out in more ways than one.

On any modified engine things are more likely to break. That is a simple fact IMO and it always will be, which is why I have resisted the urge to modify the Williams engine in mine until the point the standard bits start letting go at which point they will get uprated.

Just for reference we have a Scoob WRX coming into our workshop next week that has covered just 35k miles and maintained regularly (not by us though) with a completly knackered bottom end. Hopefully we can rebuild it with only crank regrind, cylinder rebore etc but we wont know the full extent of the damage until we split the engine apart.

KingStromba
25-04-2005, 13:35
I thought regrinding a crank was a big NO NO. Once its gone, new crank or your asking for trouble?

Put it this way. If i was a builder and one of my houses fell in after i had finished it i could put it down to bad luck.

Another house and the customer complained patio flooring isnt as level as a neighbours and the windows dont close properly, id be concerned.

If then the front wall fell in on another after i had had to replace the suports after accidently damaging them during my work, id start to wonder about the materials i was usuing and the qaulity of my workmanship.



Just me 2p's worth.

FlamingMonkey
25-04-2005, 13:37
I had the crank reground on my old 16v, didn't notice any ill effects, if anything engine felt better afterwards

KingStromba
25-04-2005, 13:39
I was of the impression, but i may be wrong, that once the crank is out on a performance engine, the chances of you getting it 100% from a regrind are slim to minimal.

:D

big hp
25-04-2005, 13:49
Its easy to re-grind parts and get them running true. This is not a problem if you know what your doing. After grinding its best to have it dynamically balanced to see where its at and if its spot on.

FlamingMonkey
25-04-2005, 13:49
No idea on these sorts of things, car went well afterwards though

KingStromba
25-04-2005, 14:00
Yeah im not saying you cant rebalance. But it wont ever be structurally as strong and if your grinding bits off it its going to be even weaker.

Must be torsional structual problems with them?

Mark_Ritchspeed
25-04-2005, 14:20
It really depends how badly scored the crank is. Very often you can get away with just doing a small polish to get light cratches out, somtimes a light regrind. On the Scoob we wont know until we have split the block in half. In all likelyhood the crank on this Scoob will be scrap as its making a hell of a lot of noise, but if lucky it might just be the shells thats disintegrated without damaging the crank too much.

We'll see.

stan
25-04-2005, 18:22
fone round some motor factors for an oil pump mate...i know they are around £70 for a pattern part.dont fone BBT...just look in the yellow pages under motor factors.

As for the crank re-grinding issue...its important to remember that the material level removed would be minimal. IF the crank pin was re-ground at an off-set to increase stroke, THEN there may be structural issues. but for general repair its ok

2 live
25-04-2005, 23:21
gutted to hear about this mate

was lookin forward to the comparison too......its a real shitter for ya... but like gunner said.meggy block n rebuild wont probly cost much more than a willy engine rebuild