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arj256
15-06-2006, 23:43
After seeing a few of these on the Cup Racers, are these worth getting?
Im currently running a filter on the rocker cover, heard these are not very good as you loose the vacuum. Would this effect oil pressure?

Had a quick look on ebay, but theres not much there, i did a search, and not much came up apart from fred argueing with ben :wink:
Where abouts would a pipe go to feed it back into the sump?

Thanks.

BenR
16-06-2006, 00:05
what you want is breather area from rocker going to a baffled catch can. Have a return to the original airbox area.
Have the return going down to the bolt at the front of the block where the crank locking tdc tool goes.

summeh
16-06-2006, 17:31
sounds like a good idea to use the tdc bolt hole. is this what cup racers do, or do they not have a return?

BenR
16-06-2006, 18:38
i dont think they have a return.

Lunner
16-06-2006, 21:29
How important is a return?

Obvously if you regularly monitor it then i cant be a problem?

Is tehre a catch tank you recomend/can supply ben?

BenR
16-06-2006, 21:32
I like returns because it saves not draining it and adds a crankcase breather area.

I run moroso tanks from the states.

arj256
16-06-2006, 21:48
what you want is breather area from rocker going to a baffled catch can. Have a return to the original airbox area.
Have the return going down to the bolt at the front of the block where the crank locking tdc tool goes.

Cool. Out of curiosity why do you have a return going to the airbox? is that to create more air pressure?

I saw a guide about making your own, and the baffles where wire wool. This would be risky? as you could end up with fine bits of metal in your oil system?

Where abouts can you get moroso catch tanks from?

Thanks.

Martin
16-06-2006, 22:26
Forgive my ignorance but whats the benefit of these?

BenR
16-06-2006, 22:38
benefits is simply less oil vapour in the you inlet, less consumption and less octane contamination, cleaner burn.

making a DIY can is fine, but i wouldnt use wire wool, proper ally plate baffling is what you want.

I run 2 feeds to the inlet manifold, one into the airbox yes. Ideally you also want to place a flow facing slash cut to actively move air through the crankcase.

ben_j
16-06-2006, 22:51
y not just use a breather tho? its only vapour. u shouldnt actually be getting any oil coming out

BenR
16-06-2006, 22:59
you can if you want, but goes against the whole point of having a crankcase ventilation system.

Ideally you want to be pulling a vacuum, not just leaving it pressurised.

arj256
17-06-2006, 00:19
benefits is simply less oil vapour in the you inlet, less consumption and less octane contamination, cleaner burn.

making a DIY can is fine, but i wouldnt use wire wool, proper ally plate baffling is what you want.

I run 2 feeds to the inlet manifold, one into the airbox yes. Ideally you also want to place a flow facing slash cut to actively move air through the crankcase.

How would you make up the baffling plate? You got any pics of how it should look?

BenR
17-06-2006, 01:12
hard to explain, you need all feeds at the top, with a centre tube coming up the middle, and baffles around it, in a semi helical/cyclone filter type of arrangement.

I'd have to draw it, but i cant be arsed right now.

steveos_16valver
17-06-2006, 09:05
any pictures of these catch tanks???

ben_j
17-06-2006, 10:49
you can if you want, but goes against the whole point of having a crankcase ventilation system.

Ideally you want to be pulling a vacuum, not just leaving it pressurised.

would a catch tank do that tho? surley u'd need an oil seperator like i had on my sax for that?

BenR
17-06-2006, 15:35
read the whole thread ;)

ben_j
17-06-2006, 23:29
never :P

BenR
17-06-2006, 23:41
then i shall recap.........
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read the whole thread.

arj256
17-06-2006, 23:43
hard to explain, you need all feeds at the top, with a centre tube coming up the middle, and baffles around it, in a semi helical/cyclone filter type of arrangement.

I'd have to draw it, but i cant be arsed right now.

Any chance of getting a drawing sometime :wink:
Would rather make my own up, and there isnt anywhere which sells them like that in the Uk?

BenR
17-06-2006, 23:48
you'll be waiting a long time for me to draw it in paint! lol

arj256
17-06-2006, 23:52
Paint rocks! silly how much time you spend drawing simple things.
You could always hand draw it, and scan it in :wink:

BenR
17-06-2006, 23:58
if i had a scanner ;)

arj256
17-06-2006, 23:59
Camera :wink:

BenR
18-06-2006, 00:01
was gonna point it out before you said it.
I dropped a crank on it a few weeks ago.

arj256
18-06-2006, 00:08
Lol running out of excuses now
Erm, carrier pigeon?

BenR
18-06-2006, 00:10
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/bretq/oil_catch_can_diagram.jpg

Here is the basics.

The baffles should not be so uniform as that, some vertical and some horizontal ally tabs will be fine.

To build, put a small tube in a big tube with baffles between them. Have the takeoff from the top of the small tube feed the inlet manifold after the TB. 2 side feeds from rocker cover, one drain at the bottom going back into the crankcase.

arj256
18-06-2006, 01:15
Smart, cheers for that, much appreciated.

Does the clio have a oil separator then? if so where abouts is it?
Pcv = Pressure Control Valve?
On the baffles, i have drawn them on the picture below.
Does it matter about the height and length of each?
What would be a good distance to have for the openings of each of the baffles or doesnt it matter?
And does the box have to made circular? would it work just as well say being a box shape?

This is how the system would be on a clio?

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/peterj.jones/Hosted%20Stuff/Oil%20Catch%20Tank%20Design%202.jpg

Thanks.

BenR
18-06-2006, 01:22
Smart, cheers for that, much appreciated.

Does the clio have a oil separator then? if so where abouts is it?
Pcv = Pressure Control Valve?
On the baffles, i have drawn them on the picture below.
Does it matter about the height and length of each?
What would be a good distance to have for the openings of each of the baffles or doesnt it matter?
And does the box have to made circular? would it work just as well say being a box shape?

This is how the system would be on a clio?

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/peterj.jones/Hosted%20Stuff/Oil%20Catch%20Tank%20Design%202.jpg

Thanks.

No oil seperator or PCV.
height and length doesnt matter too much, but the more surface area you make the better.
It would work fine as a box.

yes that how it should be on the clio.

Cor, saved you some dosh and you learnt something..cool eh!

Make a big batch of good ones for clios and sell them. It'll work well as they pump stupid amounts of vapour out due to the bore sprays and high oil temps.

arj256
18-06-2006, 01:32
Cool. so just piping then.
Will give it a go as a box first off, as it would be easier to make up.

Aye cheers, never knew that catch tanks would be like that, i initally thought they just caught the oil.

Thats a good idea :wink: would having one of these fitted effect your oil pressure or is it not really related?

BenR
18-06-2006, 01:43
oil pressure not related.

catch tanks, proper ones get complex.

Especially when you run bodies/carbs and most people just plump a tube into a bottle......useless.

northy
19-06-2006, 08:04
Thats right Ben - My cup racer doesnt run a return to the airbox.

(blue pipe from rocker cover, under induction kit feed to catch tank)

Looks like mine does its job though
:D