PDA

View Full Version : GDI brembo kit



Slithers
17-04-2005, 19:54
This tale is 100% true, as most ppl who know me i do not bullshit about such matters.

On cliosport when andy advertised the 4 pot brembo kit for the clio 16v he had just got in, my interest was aroused and i inquired about a price.

I asked him via pm and he quoted me for a 4 pot kit including calipers pads, lines and none brembo discs.......wait for it......£949.99.

None the wiser at the time i thought...."thats a bit pricey, ill not buy that", then i saw the price the wilwood kit was going for around £350.00 i think.

Consequently my head hit the roof as it dawned on me that AndyGDI had prettt much tried ripping me on a quote off to the sum of £600.00 for a braking system that was pretty much exactly the same .

As a result what respect i had for Andy has been washed away completely and i will always hold him in a bad light thanks to theis latest incident.

P.S

Also before he says that he had to pay import duty on them which would bump the cost up, wilwood are an american firm so therefore would have cost more to import as brembo are based in the E.U.

VIPERONE
17-04-2005, 19:56
yes... alot of people have issues with his company... and in particular his prices..
I know of..hmmm quite a few people.

Martin
17-04-2005, 20:04
You get what you pay for....

Martin
17-04-2005, 20:06
...or you get ripped the **** off! lol

northy
17-04-2005, 20:19
did you ask why they were so much more mate ?

NickFr
17-04-2005, 20:25
did you ask why they were so much more mate ?

Seems a reasonable question, got to give the guy a chance to say why?

KingStromba
17-04-2005, 21:01
I have stopped two friends spending alot of money there now. Must have cost him 500-1000 pounds now.

Slithers
17-04-2005, 21:35
To be fair i dont see anyway on earth that you could justify a £600.00 price increase on a kit i know to be a nearly exact specification to the wilwood kit mark is offering for £350.00.

Also, i dont think i would regard any reason he gave me as acceptable for such an outrageous quote anyway.

NickFr
17-04-2005, 21:45
You are probably right, but surely it wouldn't be worth his time to rip anyone on either site off, would it? if it is then he's stupid and shooting himself in the foot, however it would be interesting to really get his answer, I don't know the guy, but I suspect Northy posed the question to give him the chance to put his case, if it don't stack up then bingo end of story...just my 2 francs worth, I will always follow the advice from the members on here, TBH I believe in the death penalty, just want to know all the facts before I pass sentance :oops:

summeh
17-04-2005, 21:47
I'm sure he has justification for the prices he sets. You need to give the fella chance to explain why before saying stuff like you're being ripped off etc.

Slithers
17-04-2005, 22:04
I'm sure he has justification for the prices he sets. You need to give the fella chance to explain why before saying stuff like you're being ripped off etc.

Do i?, I don't think i have to let him explain himself when the facts like this are this obvious to me, I'm not some naive boy racer which is obviously what he took me for IMO.

Slithers
17-04-2005, 22:07
Just might add summeh im not havin a go at you or nickfr there. Its just how i view business should be done.

summeh
17-04-2005, 22:51
yeh np mate, i was just sayin there might be good reason why the kit is so highly priced, then again there might not be :)

Mark_Ritchspeed
17-04-2005, 23:04
To be fair to Andy I would expect the Brembo calipers/pads are more expensive to buy in than the Wilwoods that we use . I assume that at that price the kit is also coming with bigger discs which would account for a larger final price. I also dont know what discount he gets with brembo, but for us to get any significant discount we normally spend a few thousand pounds at a time.

The kits that we will be selling our designed to use standard size discs as in our opinion bigger discs are simply not needed. Now for some people a bigger disc is more pleasing to the eye, but if we were selling kits with bigger discs our prices would go up accordingly.

For instance one of the kits we do for Lancer Evos 1-3 works out at around £1000 but comes with seperate bells and 310mm discs and also uses the substantially larger and more expensive Superlight 4 pots. At those prices we are coming up against stiff competition, but unfortunately we couldnt afford to do it any cheaper if were still to make any money.

Slithers
18-04-2005, 00:04
To be fair to Andy I would expect the Brembo calipers/pads are more expensive to buy in than the Wilwoods that we use . I assume that at that price the kit is also coming with bigger discs which would account for a larger final price. I also dont know what discount he gets with brembo, but for us to get any significant discount we normally spend a few thousand pounds at a time.

The kits that we will be selling our designed to use standard size discs as in our opinion bigger discs are simply not needed. Now for some people a bigger disc is more pleasing to the eye, but if we were selling kits with bigger discs our prices would go up accordingly.

For instance one of the kits we do for Lancer Evos 1-3 works out at around £1000 but comes with seperate bells and 310mm discs and also uses the substantially larger and more expensive Superlight 4 pots. At those prices we are coming up against stiff competition, but unfortunately we couldnt afford to do it any cheaper if were still to make any money.

Nope its coming with standard size none brembo discs IIRC, + if the six pot tarox kit which includes tarox discs, lines pads and calipers is only £728.30 i simply cannot see how this brembo kit can have that monumental price tag thrown on it.

Mark_Ritchspeed
18-04-2005, 00:14
Ah I see now. :oops:

NickFr
18-04-2005, 06:26
Just might add summeh im not havin a go at you or nickfr there. Its just how i view business should be done.

Likewise, as KS says knowledge is power, at least were all learning something, business is buisiness never personal or should'nt be, feeling ripped off is a bad feeling I should know :oops:

y0z2a
19-04-2005, 02:18
This tale is 100% true, as most ppl who know me i do not bullshit about such matters.

On cliosport when andy advertised the 4 pot brembo kit for the clio 16v he had just got in, my interest was aroused and i inquired about a price.

I asked him via pm and he quoted me for a 4 pot kit including calipers pads, lines and none brembo discs.......wait for it......£949.99.

None the wiser at the time i thought...."thats a bit pricey, ill not buy that", then i saw the price the wilwood kit was going for around £350.00 i think.

Consequently my head hit the roof as it dawned on me that AndyGDI had prettt much tried ripping me on a quote off to the sum of £600.00 for a braking system that was pretty much exactly the same .

As a result what respect i had for Andy has been washed away completely and i will always hold him in a bad light thanks to theis latest incident.

P.S

Also before he says that he had to pay import duty on them which would bump the cost up, wilwood are an american firm so therefore would have cost more to import as brembo are based in the E.U.

Hi,

just reading this post...

A few things to note about Wilwood Calipers (which i nearly put on my cup a few months ago. I spoke to the UK importer about all the 172 stuff - maybe richspeed - i can't remember now)

- they do not come with brackets for fitment *just seen the for sale thread: Marc has obviously made them up*
- they don't have dust seals IIRC (same as some AP racing calipers)
- they need new bushes (or servicing or something like that) approximately every 2000 miles to work effectively from what I understand.

The brembo kit is top notch kit, and you get what you pay for, it isn't cheap. I would suggest talking to Andy to find out what the package consisted of specifically before suggesting he tried to rip you off.

A few other things to consider;

IIRC the kit that andy was offering on CS was for the 172/182, nothing as far as I saw related to the 16v.

Import costs and duty in the EU can result in costs being much higher from closer to home.

Tarox kit again is very different.

For Clarity - the wilwood brake kit and the brembo kit are two entirely different kits, so to compare them is a little bit like comparing a £10 bottle of white wine (very good and everything) with a £15 bottle of red (again very good, but entirely different to the white)

oh, and I have had nothing but good service from GDI and Andy for 12/18 months, even if he is a little more expensive than someplaces - again, you pay for what you get.

:-)

/y0z

NickFr
19-04-2005, 08:15
I don't know whether you are right or not, but at least you have posted a sensible and thought out reply, everyone is entitled to his or hers opinion, so far this thread has stayed the right side of decent, it will then be down to the individual whose money it is to take the plunge :wink:

Whilst, I always welcome someone taking the time to share bad experiences, its seems common throughout alot of forums not to mention, hopefully all of those positive experiences people have had, it ends up sounding like the 10 o'clock news WAR FAMINE DEATH :(

Mark_Ritchspeed
19-04-2005, 09:19
Yozza. You are completely misinformed on the Wilwood calipers. My Wilwood's are 4 years old now and have covered nearly 40k miles without ever needing any servicing work done to them. In that time they have received nothing but complete abuse from me on track, rallying and road. I have never even heard of any calipers leaking or seizing in the years that I have been using them and selling them.

Also remember just because something is cheaper doesnt necessarily mean it is inferior in quality. Yes the price we do the kits for is a complete bargain, but then just about everything made in the States is. We even source a lot of our parts for Japanese cars from USA as in many cases they are cheaper from the US than from Japan.

At the end of the day I am not interested in marketing a top-end brake kit with big discs etc as they are simply not needed on the majority of cars. I am just marketing something that I trust 100% to be completely reliable and is all the kit a Clio will ever need.

As for the dust seal's being an issue. I have never known this to be true and in fact just about all top end racing calipers are NOT dust sealed as the heat involved when on track would destroy them.

Even iff after a year or two of use a small rebuild was required the parts are extremely cheap and its a very easy DIY job.

In the meantime the savings you will make in discs and pads using this set-up will have paid for itself many times over.

Also to say the Brembo kit is top-notch is implying at the same time that the kit I am marketing is not. If I wasnt 100% confident in the kit, I wouldnt even consider selling it.

KingStromba
19-04-2005, 09:45
This tale is 100% true, as most ppl who know me i do not bullshit about such matters.

On cliosport when andy advertised the 4 pot brembo kit for the clio 16v he had just got in, my interest was aroused and i inquired about a price.

I asked him via pm and he quoted me for a 4 pot kit including calipers pads, lines and none brembo discs.......wait for it......£949.99.

None the wiser at the time i thought...."thats a bit pricey, ill not buy that", then i saw the price the wilwood kit was going for around £350.00 i think.

Consequently my head hit the roof as it dawned on me that AndyGDI had prettt much tried ripping me on a quote off to the sum of £600.00 for a braking system that was pretty much exactly the same .

As a result what respect i had for Andy has been washed away completely and i will always hold him in a bad light thanks to theis latest incident.

P.S

Also before he says that he had to pay import duty on them which would bump the cost up, wilwood are an american firm so therefore would have cost more to import as brembo are based in the E.U.

Hi,

just reading this post...

A few things to note about Wilwood Calipers (which i nearly put on my cup a few months ago. I spoke to the UK importer about all the 172 stuff - maybe richspeed - i can't remember now)

- they do not come with brackets for fitment *just seen the for sale thread: Marc has obviously made them up*
- they don't have dust seals IIRC (same as some AP racing calipers)
- they need new bushes (or servicing or something like that) approximately every 2000 miles to work effectively from what I understand.

The brembo kit is top notch kit, and you get what you pay for, it isn't cheap. I would suggest talking to Andy to find out what the package consisted of specifically before suggesting he tried to rip you off.

A few other things to consider;

IIRC the kit that andy was offering on CS was for the 172/182, nothing as far as I saw related to the 16v.

Import costs and duty in the EU can result in costs being much higher from closer to home.

Tarox kit again is very different.

For Clarity - the wilwood brake kit and the brembo kit are two entirely different kits, so to compare them is a little bit like comparing a £10 bottle of white wine (very good and everything) with a £15 bottle of red (again very good, but entirely different to the white)

oh, and I have had nothing but good service from GDI and Andy for 12/18 months, even if he is a little more expensive than someplaces - again, you pay for what you get.

:-)

/y0z

You get what you pay for do you?

Valeo front headlight from GSf - £30
Valeo fron headlight from Renault - £50

Identical product. Made in the same factory, probably at the same time. One comes in a Renault box and costs £20 more than the one that comes in a Valeo box. In fact sometimes Renault dont even rebox them, and they simply come as they do from GSF.

You would have to be naive beyond belief to think that because something costs more it is better quality.


And on a different track (no pun intended), when talking about brakes, i think Mark has the qualifications to back up what he says. His pictures of his three wheel action in his Williams are legendary stuff in this club, so when he tells us what brakes work, hes not just reading (or quoting as you do) someone else. So we sit up and listen (although i just fitted standard calipers all round but then im a Williams geek). Hes been out and tried them on track and in rally's. But then i guess he has a real rally car to try them on, not a watered down rally car wanna be, with a back end like a bucking bronko that spends most of its time sliding down armco and the rest of the time in the body shop :wink:


Maybe if Fred had Wilwoods, he would have made that corner? :roll:

y0z2a
19-04-2005, 11:35
Hi Mark,

As I said, I respect Willwood enough to consider putting them on my car, it wasn't anything to do with the quality of the caliper that I was commenting on. I decided not to use them after talking with 5 people - 3 with westfields, one with a stryker and one with a 2.0 nova rally car (at bruntingthorpe) We were testing our 172 brake kit. They were telling me that they needed to regularly service their calipers. (may be down to them putting more heat though them) I decided that this was probably not a good Idea for a road based kit. I stand corrected by mark if this is the case, as it seems.

I was trying to say that both products were good, but were different, I thought that was clear with saying a £10 bottle of white ;-)

The most accurate post in the whole of this thread made by mark - "At the end of the day I am not interested in marketing a top-end brake kit with big discs etc as they are simply not needed on the majority of cars. I am just marketing something that I trust 100% to be completely reliable and is all the kit a Clio will ever need." <-- *applauds* This is exactly what I have done with our 172 Kit. I have tested our kits to destruction. The old cup and williams circuit cup cars all ran on standard calipers, as do the new 172 / 182 cup racers. They run with good pads and OEM discs (that last very little time, as they get too hot)

KS.

Waterskis may have got Fred around the corner, but, when you are aquaplaning (something that happens when you actually are driving in the wet - not just talking about driving on the internet ;-) ) there isn't much you can do. And in 7,000 track miles at full tilt it is to be expected to have an off. In wet weather there is not a lot that you can do.

For you to suggest that I have not tested this kit to destruction is plain unfair. We have put 40,000 miles (road and track) on our kit testing it before we have sold it, which I imagine is an evivalent milage to 4 years road motoring to some people. We have had nothing but praise on the kits, the only complaint we have had is that the pads screech, but we say this in our sales literature.

And you can't compare identical products prices in this debate, they are two different products.

GDI Brembo Kit is the following spec:

305mm discs
Brembo 4 pot Calipers (road sealed)
Braided lines (F)
Brembo FR/R Pads
Brackets

Mark Fish Motorsport do an almost identical kit using the brembo gear and IIRC it is £1400, the brembo gear is expensive from 2 of the people I know and respect.

Wilwood gear will be different prices, end of.

Anyhow,

As always, some people will want to pay more to have brembo behind their 27 spoke 20" rims... :-D some will buy into the brand, and others will just trust their friends judgements about what they heard in the pub.

At £350 the Wilwood kit from Mark is a bargain and you would struggle to find anything to compare without putting together your own kit to suit your individual preferences without some serious time and money invested in it.

/y0z

NickFr
19-04-2005, 11:41
Sounds fair, different products, different prices, the only thing that appears to be the same is a bit of respect for each others products and experiences!! :wink:

Swervin_Mervin
19-04-2005, 11:41
Screechy brakes are cool. My DS2500s do this and I consider it to be motorsport cool. Although I suspect the rest of the road users just see an 11yr old shed! :lol:

y0z2a
19-04-2005, 11:45
Screechy brakes are cool. My DS2500s do this and I consider it to be motorsport cool. Although I suspect the rest of the road users just see an 11yr old shed! :lol:

heat them up more when you are bedding the next pair in, you might find it stops the pad screeching from mid-life - end of life.

/y0z

Swervin_Mervin
19-04-2005, 11:51
They only screech at low speeds Yoz. At serious speed they're ok.

Mark_Ritchspeed
19-04-2005, 12:13
Agreed. I'm not interested in slagging anyones elses kits off. People can make up their own minds what to use and all I am doing is offering a cost effective solution to what traditionally people spend thousand of pounds on for a set-up that simply will not brake any harder than the set-up I use.

I spent an absolute fortune testing every available race-pad that would fit into a standard Williams caliper and not one would last more than 10 mins on track with my driving . The amount of black flags I had waved at me for smoking brakes and even a couple of sets that actually had flames licking off them in the braking zones I cant count.The problem simply boiled down to the standard iron calipers being unable to dissipate the heat that was being created and was not a fault of the pads or discs. I have even managed to melt the bearing grease on a couple of occasions.

The one fact I will stand by with this kit is I have never managed to make it fade in around 4 years of trying.

KingStromba
19-04-2005, 13:23
Hi Mark,

As I said, I respect Willwood enough to consider putting them on my car, it wasn't anything to do with the quality of the caliper that I was commenting on. I decided not to use them after talking with 5 people - 3 with westfields, one with a stryker and one with a 2.0 nova rally car (at bruntingthorpe) We were testing our 172 brake kit. They were telling me that they needed to regularly service their calipers. (may be down to them putting more heat though them) I decided that this was probably not a good Idea for a road based kit. I stand corrected by mark if this is the case, as it seems.

I was trying to say that both products were good, but were different, I thought that was clear with saying a £10 bottle of white ;-)

The most accurate post in the whole of this thread made by mark - "At the end of the day I am not interested in marketing a top-end brake kit with big discs etc as they are simply not needed on the majority of cars. I am just marketing something that I trust 100% to be completely reliable and is all the kit a Clio will ever need." <-- *applauds* This is exactly what I have done with our 172 Kit. I have tested our kits to destruction. The old cup and williams circuit cup cars all ran on standard calipers, as do the new 172 / 182 cup racers. They run with good pads and OEM discs (that last very little time, as they get too hot)

KS.

Waterskis may have got Fred around the corner, but, when you are aquaplaning (something that happens when you actually are driving in the wet - not just talking about driving on the internet ;-) ) there isn't much you can do. And in 7,000 track miles at full tilt it is to be expected to have an off. In wet weather there is not a lot that you can do.
For you to suggest that I have not tested this kit to destruction is plain unfair. We have put 40,000 miles (road and track) on our kit testing it before we have sold it, which I imagine is an evivalent milage to 4 years road motoring to some people. We have had nothing but praise on the kits, the only complaint we have had is that the pads screech, but we say this in our sales literature.

And you can't compare identical products prices in this debate, they are two different products.

GDI Brembo Kit is the following spec:

305mm discs
Brembo 4 pot Calipers (road sealed)
Braided lines (F)
Brembo FR/R Pads
Brackets

Mark Fish Motorsport do an almost identical kit using the brembo gear and IIRC it is £1400, the brembo gear is expensive from 2 of the people I know and respect.

Wilwood gear will be different prices, end of.

Anyhow,

As always, some people will want to pay more to have brembo behind their 27 spoke 20" rims... :-D some will buy into the brand, and others will just trust their friends judgements about what they heard in the pub.

At £350 the Wilwood kit from Mark is a bargain and you would struggle to find anything to compare without putting together your own kit to suit your individual preferences without some serious time and money invested in it.

/y0z

Yozza,

I would gladdly show you how quickly i can drive. Lend me your car and i will gladly outpace you with no track experience. Just dont expect me to mash my own car. Every piece of sports equipment i have ever picked up i have instantly been able to match people with years of experience. I dont expect driving a race car to be any different. Its all eye hand cordination. If you have it, you have it.

y0z2a
19-04-2005, 13:30
I'm sure you would, as I am the slowest driver in the world.

Just a shame I don't have the money to get a drive. Shame that really; considering that I am quick enough. You may as well leap frog the steps that I aim at, and try to go straight for a formula one drive.

there is one thing that is a certain. you would never drive my car... ever, so unfortunately we will never find out.

:-(

How are you at table tennis? that is the best indicator of hand/eye/reflex co-ordination, yet am only reasonably good at that.

Anyhow, thats all for now folks.

/y0z

KingStromba
19-04-2005, 14:36
I won a few table tennis tournaments at school, always found it pretty easy. I suppose thats the benefit of a public school education, you get to try alot of different sports. Probably played 2 hours of sport a day between the ages of 9 and 18. We had astroturfs, sports stadiums, athletic tracks and olympic size swimming pools to play in free, whenever we wanted. Its a great lifestyle.

Im not that fussed about driving your cup to be honest. Soft core modern luxury cars dont interest me. :D

Mark_Ritchspeed
19-04-2005, 14:45
Probably played with my penis 2 hours a day between the ages of 9 and 18. I've shagged astronauts in sports stadiums, athletic tracks and olympic size swimming pools, whenever I wanted. Its a great lifestyle.

Im not that fussed about shagging the queen to be honest. Soft core modern porn dont interest me. :D

















Note to self. Must stop pissing around with quotes. :shock:

y0z2a
19-04-2005, 14:49
OWNED.

:lol:

/y0z

KingStromba
19-04-2005, 14:51
LOL, Marks got the quote bug.

VIPERONE
19-04-2005, 14:52
i thought the cup had been stacked?

KingStromba
19-04-2005, 14:54
Its been mended now.

y0z2a
19-04-2005, 15:54
i thought the cup had been stacked?

was fixed up almost straight away, is back and is flying.

:-)

/y0z

KingStromba
19-04-2005, 15:56
i thought the cup had been stacked?

was fixed up almost straight away, is with twisted subframe and strange pull to one side.

:-)

/y0z


:shock:

y0z2a
19-04-2005, 16:00
New Subframe, Seam welding was planned, but the new subframes are galvanised.

New Steering arms, New hub assembly, new wheel bearings, Wheels, Discs, Pads, Suspension re - corner weighted.

So she is perfect.

/y0z

KingStromba
19-04-2005, 16:02
I thought you said it was a cup?

A williams would be perfect. A cup is a cup.

Mark_Ritchspeed
19-04-2005, 16:05
Broken Steering arms, Knackered old hub assembly, seized wheel bearings,buckled Wheels, Warped Discs, Crumbling Pads, Suspension bent back to shape.

So she is perfect.

/y0z



If you say so. :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

y0z2a
19-04-2005, 16:06
:?

of course it is...

/y0z

Slithers
20-04-2005, 23:48
Right ive been in London the past few days so i aint really had a chance to reply to this thread.

Yo2za: I appreciate that you have never been faulted by GDI, and i also respect the fact that you come on here to defend them, but the original question was justifing the £600 increase on a similar spec kit, something which still remians unanswered.

Also have you actually had each different 4 pot kit on your car on to test?, if not its an unfair test to instantly dismiss wilwood as some cheapo alternative. And the 6 pot Tarox kit for £730.00?, have you also tried that kit and compared it to the GDI brembo kit?, which is over £200.00 more than the Tarox 6 pot kit.

Like i said before i questioned GDI's pricing of the brembo kit and after a lot of thought and research i have decided it is way too overpriced. So far no-one has managed to say why this £600.00 price difference has occured for nearly identical kits, which also seem to have performance values in favour of the wilwoods from the reviews i have seen.

So unless its the brembo name your paying for (which still cant justify the £600.00 increase as they are meant to be PERFORMANCE enhancing products), the price will always remain to me a rip off.

Also BenR (who i might say has gone way up in my books after seeing jons car) offered both the 4 pot willwood and brembo kits for around £350.00 IIRC, read into that how you will.

VIPERONE
21-04-2005, 07:47
are you complaining at his brake price or all of his prices?

hehe

personally i would go with the wilwoods.. mark ritchspeed has..let say more than adequately tested them...spend the spare cash on your gf/wife...or alternatively a chipwizzard remap, etc etc etc...

NickFr
21-04-2005, 08:04
Slithers, I would have to agree, having read all the posts that your slant on things is the most persuasive, for the undecided on here this post has been informative, and both you and Yoz have not started a slanging match, which takes some restraint. Welcome back from the Big Smoke!

Mark_Ritchspeed
21-04-2005, 08:11
FWIW, I speak with BenR quite frequently and its likely he will also be getting my Clio for headwork and cams at some point before Anglessey.

It is extremely rare for me to trust my car with anyone else.

NickFr
21-04-2005, 08:17
And theres me thinking that all West Wales people had deep pockets and short arms :wink: seriously love Aber, lived in Llandrindod Wells, know the road to Aber very well, no wonder you need bloody good brakes :shock:

J o n
21-04-2005, 09:34
I'll be getting the Wilwood 4 pots when I go for some new breaks, I dont care how good these other ones are, that's not even an issue... the issue is that I aint spending all that on some breaks when I can get cheap ones, pocket the change, have a few nights out and get me car remap'd... I'm sure the kit is amazing but just no, too much for me

KingStromba
21-04-2005, 09:37
And theres me thinking that all West Wales people had deep pockets and short arms :wink: seriously love Aber, lived in Llandrindod Wells, know the road to Aber very well, no wonder you need bloody good brakes :shock:


:shock:

NickFr
21-04-2005, 16:51
KS, why are you shocked

Mark_Ritchspeed
21-04-2005, 16:56
He's shocked because he forgot to misquote your post.

:D

Must admit I do love the roads around here and they really are very good for testing out cars abilities.

As for the pockets, I'm sure the missus has an automatic switch that immediately removes any money that goes into my pockets. Well notes anyway. :roll: