View Full Version : ultimate clio FWD/RWD/4WD
Right. now i've got the car running i allready wanna take it to the next step, but what would be better....
Bigger turbo for more power but then more lag and its hard enough to put down now.
Convert it to RWD
or make it 4WD
sooooo many toughts in my head right now :lol:
VIPERONE
06-05-2006, 15:19
4 wd.. rwd.. lol the back ends re bad enough!
**** knows where a prob shaft would go.. it'd be a twin engine job
Twin engines it got to be done.
I don't think rwd or 4 wheel drive would be that bad depends how you want it done just basicaly weld a rear wheel setup from a VAG etc I'd think (I make it sound so easy). As for the drive weel use the space which is at the moment used for the drivesaft you'll need a new fule tank though and make a side exhaust I'd think.
yep........gotta be twin engined..
iv bin plannin to do it for years...lol...never got round to it tho.....rochdale williams' willy was gunna be the donor car a few years ago.....but other shit happened out of my control..
Even a twin engined valver would be quick ok not as much power as Matt or Flan but surly with the extra traction it would be good and quick.
ash clio gtt
06-05-2006, 17:41
VNT :wink:
ash clio gtt
06-05-2006, 17:42
oh and keep it fwd and learn how to brake with your left foot :twisted:
clowo16v
06-05-2006, 18:23
I wouldn't go twin engined its not very easy to keep them both running at the same time.
I'd space frame it and make it rwd. For the rear diff use a Cossie one and the Cossie driveshafts.
Best way to do it would be to start with another shell. You then need to cut the entire floor & bulkhead away. Make the chassis out of 15mm square box section in an X shape similar to a Lotus Elan. This shape will give you plenty of room to run the exhausts and turbo, and will allow you to fit race car style double wishbone suspension with inboard coilovers front and back. You would also be able to run whatever wheels you wanted. I'd go for something like 8J on the front and 10J on the rear.
Matt
i would go rear mounted V6 twin turbo driving rear wheels, or maybe even all four.
Dancliovalver
06-05-2006, 18:30
4 engines..........................1 for each wheel 8) :wink:
4WD.
Or leave it as it is and finish that other kit car you have?! :roll: :lol:
clowo16v
06-05-2006, 19:25
I don't think Clios are long enough to rear mount engines you'd have a lot of weight over the back wheels and the front would get a bit light.
I wonder how difficult it would be to properly mid mount the engine. Thinking along the lines of this:
http://www.beardmorebros.co.uk/website%20pages/new_project.htm
I know the blokes that built it that thing is a mental bit of kit.
Matt
nah...theres loads cars rwd that are shorter than the clios...how many rear engined minis are there out there.
then theres oe stuff.....sunbeams etc, new stuff......prob not so much lol
ash clio gtt
07-05-2006, 02:49
shame you didnt turbo a renault engine, could have then mid mounted it in the back in line with a UN1 gearbox from a r5 gordini turbo or r5 turbo 2.
like this r5gtt with r21 engine in the back
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h59/ash-wiltshire/r521.jpg
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h59/ash-wiltshire/r521back.jpg
That's a sexy looking bit of kit ^^^
Is it a UK car?
ash clio gtt
07-05-2006, 12:26
That's a sexy looking bit of kit ^^^
Is it a UK car?
nope dutch i believe.
why dont someone do a Renny21 turbo 4x4 conversion on a clio??
mite tek some doin but shud be sweet
or why not twin bike engined? its been done on minis so why not clios?
4wd all the way tho for me
save your money and buy a proper car to start with..
save your money and buy a proper car to start with..
Trouble is Anders, Flan does all the work himself and, so far at least, it's cost him very little money. So it's actually very good value performance. Plus there's the engineering challenge of it all.
But I get your point!
save your money and buy a proper car to start with..
Yeah, great plan!
if everyone just bought a car and did nothing like flanny has the car world would be a very boring place!
personally i think his work on his clis has been the dogs knackers, and he now has probably one of the quickest mk1 clios ever made!
but he could have just bought a scooby like everyone else and spent all his time dreaming about engineering watching eastenders zzzzzzz
:roll:
twin engine 4wd with vag units
Twin Engined.... :shock: come on lads thats a bit beyond me..lol
Well RWD aint a problem, TT box with a propshaft to the back with a Cossi rear LSD mounted somehow. BUT i'd have all the weight of the engine and box in the front, no grip i think.
4wd would be good but im not sure about the extra weight it would put on the car
tis a tough one really, gotta go measure up a TT rear subframe :wink:
ooor i can bolt my enine to an Audi A4 box (transaxle) and stick it in the back as a mid rear clio :wink: if there's room
personally I think it's great. any engine conversion impresses me, especially when your getting german parts to work in a French car... brilliant!
Well RWD aint a problem, TT box with a propshaft to the back with a Cossi rear LSD mounted somehow. BUT i'd have all the weight of the engine and box in the front, no grip i think.
That sounds good to me. You have all the weight up front anyway. All you'll be doing is adding the weight of the diff' and axle to the back, which will balance it better 8)
clowo16v
08-05-2006, 11:04
If you make a new petrol tank and mount that and the battery above the rear axle line it should stop the wheelspin.
Matt
Swervin_Mervin
08-05-2006, 11:12
RWD with the Clios wheelbase? Would be cack. You'd have to widen the rear track to make it even vaguely worthwhile IMO. 4WD would be my choice but using one engine.
clowo16v
08-05-2006, 11:26
Theres loads of cars with a shorter wheelbase than the Clio and lots more power that are fine.
Matt
Swervin_Mervin
08-05-2006, 11:37
Like? Look what happened with the mk1 Vee. Renault had to widen the rear track and lengthen the wheelbase to improve it.
The mk1 clio has a narrower rear track than the front which is not generally the accepted practice with RWD cars. Presumably this is why the 5 had a much wider rear track on the RWD Maxi versions.
clowo16v
08-05-2006, 11:49
Just a few I can remember:
http://www.hotrodphotos.co.uk/images/images.WatfordRods2006/Cool%20Anglia.jpg
Theres plenty of Mk1 and 2 Escorts which aren't massively longer or wider than a Clio running well over 400bhp.
It probably would be a good idea to widen the rear track a bit if you did a Clio, doesn't need to be to Maxi size though.
Matt
http://www.hotrodphotos.co.uk/images/images.WatfordRods2006/Cool%20Anglia.jpg
Matt
Ah yes, that looks like it handles like a dream.
Yer I think you have a good point swerving… The clio is a short wheel base but no shorter than my Bro’s TVR s or Griff 500, they get quite good grip but the engine and box are behind the front wheels, my clio is right over the fronts.
It would be a right laugh but undrivable.
4WD would be better but its trying to find a box (golf or TT) and a rear diff with the same ratio
TT 4wd box’s are all 6speed IIRC and won’t fit in my engine bay unless I cut the chassis rail out which is not ideal for track days…
:roll:
Swervin_Mervin
08-05-2006, 12:22
Wasn't Matt on about using a Scenic 4x4 setup? Thing with TVRs is that the track is probably a fair bit wider.
whoooaaahhh there ladies.........your all getting carried away
To convert it to 4wd would give better launches but would slow the cars terminal speed down. It would create a lot of work that sounds simple in theory but to put it into practice would be very difficult. I get 1.9sec 0 - 60 foot times in mine with an LSD and michelin racing slicks - thats subaru and skyline times !!
RWD would be dangerous in a vehicle so light with so much power at the back end + its a swb chassis ( you want to see how many Clio V6's are getting written off at the moment ) imagine coming out of a bend and putting the power down ??? need i say more.
Flan you big pussy - go for the VF34 with jabba sport manifold and bigger intercooler + an LSD and paddle clutch. Fit J & E pistons and you will see over 400 bhp. Stop talkin and start walkin :D
^^^ LOL I need a lsd ASAP then it will be more fun...
IHI will be next on the list... and i don't need a bigger intercooler :wink:
save your money and buy a proper car to start with..
What are you driving a Clio for then? Why don't you get a Merc or some other knob extension?:roll:
Dimma did a Cossie 4X4 convertion years ago when 16v's were new. There's an article of it somewhre on T'internet
How about one of these Racelogic traction control?
http://www.racelogic.co.uk/?show=Traction_Control
Looks interesting. And if it works well enough, you can save on the extra weight of LSD installation.
Edit: :shock: Just read the prices. Not cheap.
i think i can wire TCS into the Emerald ECU somehow. its not cheap though... but an option
My car's fine on the track and im not to bothered about 1/4mile times tbh
My car's fine on the track and im not to bothered about 1/4mile times tbh
blah blah blah blah blah blah........what was that Flan ??
save your money and buy a proper car to start with..
What are you driving a Clio for then? Why don't you get a Merc or some other knob extension?:roll:
Anders has a point. If you're going for huge power you might as well start with a car that's driven from the right end.
Yes i agree it's great what people like Flan and Joned have achieved and the world would be a boring place if people didn't do these crazy things, but at the end of the day, the Clio *is* just a glorified shopping cart and not a performance vehicle in the grand scheme of things.
It strikes me that a lot of people on this site haven't driven anything with massive power before - fair enough. But to turn round and preach that a Merc is a knob extension is ridiculous. You think you'll really be driving a FWD Eurobox in 20 years? No, you'll be driving a big powerful, RWD monster and blowing Clio's into the weeds at any opportunity.
Not to say i wouldn't mind a ride in one of these VAG-engined beauty's ;)
Just my 2p. Sorry to go O/T.
My car's fine on the track and im not to bothered about 1/4mile times tbh
blah blah blah blah blah blah........what was that Flan ??
He said 1/4 miling is shit, and the race track is where its at :wink:
save your money and buy a proper car to start with..
What are you driving a Clio for then? Why don't you get a Merc or some other knob extension?:roll:
Anders has a point. If you're going for huge power you might as well start with a car that's driven from the right end.
Yes i agree it's great what people like Flan and Joned have achieved and the world would be a boring place if people didn't do these crazy things, but at the end of the day, the Clio *is* just a glorified shopping cart and not a performance vehicle in the grand scheme of things.
It strikes me that a lot of people on this site haven't driven anything with massive power before - fair enough. But to turn round and preach that a Merc is a knob extension is ridiculous. You think you'll really be driving a FWD Eurobox in 20 years? No, you'll be driving a big powerful, RWD monster and blowing Clio's into the weeds at any opportunity.
Not to say i wouldn't mind a ride in one of these VAG-engined beauty's ;)
Just my 2p. Sorry to go O/T.
The fun is destroying these big tanks when you come up next to them. The other day i on purposely pulled onto a motorway slip road doing 30mph with a big silver Merc behind me - the type all the footballers drive with a big long bonnet ?? he was right up my arse .... so i put my foot down and so did he - i pulled onto the motorway and the Merc had the cheek to move over to the second lane to overtake me - i hit about 150 mph and the merc was slowly disappearing in the rear view mirror. I saw him indicate and pull back into my lane coz he couldnt get past. I slowed down to 60 mph to let him pass and he was that embarrased he stayed behind me till i pulled off - probably didnt want to see me laughing at him as it would ruin his eago.
Ive owned big powerful cars including a 400hp Corvette, Clio V6 ( NOS ) Alipne le mans GTA turbo etc etc and nothing gives you the fun like a little clio that eats supercars.
^^Ditto (er, I take it Matt is J3ned?). Saved me the trouble of replying. That's the whole point of modding a shopping trolley
Pretty much summed it all up Matt :wink:
There's nothing wrong with 1/4mile racing, i just gotta use mine as a day to day car and fully stripped would do my nut tbh. plus then it wouldnt be a sleeper either although the dump valve gives it away :D
Clio_GTT
08-05-2006, 19:41
Matt (j3ned) has a point on 4wd
BUT
Does anyone remember the twin engined nova with the calibra turbo engines ? Supercar quick !!!
http://s51.photobucket.com/albums/f360/Clio16v-widetrack/?action=view¤t=scoff.jpg
Sticking an engine in the back isn't as hard as it sounds, theres quite a few 5's with it and a clio on RTOC.
You basically weld strut towers from the front in the back, mount the subframe in the back and a few other things and they slot straight in.
IMMENSE would be the word for a 600 - 800 BHP 4WD clio
^^ gettin it in is easy its wiring it up thats the hard thing, how the hell do you control 2 engines at the exact same rpm and power otherwise they will be workin against each other.... peopl that make twin engined cars are bloody clever, would be nice to see it done but waaaaay byond me, 4wd would be good...
4 wheel drift in a clio... nice...lol
but them evo's were driftin infront of me, but not going quicker... its horse's for courses.... :wink:
clowo16v
08-05-2006, 19:57
That Nova was a piece of shit the bloke was a twat aswell kept sayin it was the fastest street car in the world err.......no.
Matt
http://www.dimma.com/reviews/topcarrenault.html
cossie clio
RS-Steve
08-05-2006, 23:19
http://www.djm-motorsport.co.uk/
If you want the REAL DEAL call dennis at DJM, him an his wife julie hence DJM, have built cars from everybody fom my mate who ralied mantas to colin mcraes ne Mk2 escort.
This bloke once built a 4x4 reliant kitten, he won so many single stage rallies the rules were adapted to stop him running it lol
4x4 the ****er .......Cut a nice hole down the middle of the car lol...weild in a tunnel and make it quattro :P
still say twin engined 4wd
Cosworth powered Dimma Beast :D is a beast
do that :shock:
So that dimmer was only 220BHP, anyone no where it is now....
Belive it or not the 20V turbo VAG engine is actually more tunable than the cosworth, at the end of the day thats just a 16V Pinto turbo :wink:
david932
09-05-2006, 09:57
don't go rear wheel drive.. theres not enough overhang at the back and it's too short a wheelbase. it'll cock up ur handling. 4wd all the way 8)
defo single engined 4wd 8)
theres a lot to be said for twin engines......the burgundt mini at york...fukkin rapid...awesome (or similar) gti with the twin vr6 powered beasty,
then theres the green monster mk1 golf....5 pot quattro stuck where the back seats shud be, 4wd....rapid.
the cossie dimma comes up for sale evry couple years usually....at a price too lol
not seen it for a long time tho.....maybe its RIP.
id like to go twin engined...but as flan says...2 engines need to be exact same..with evrything runnin exactly same, fuelling, revs , clutch etc. there are ways round these things......but time/money/patience would be severely tested.
would be a good project tho
last i heard the cosowrth is still alive somehwere. i think someone on cliosport knew where it was
ash clio gtt
09-05-2006, 18:44
i wouldnt even think of putting the engine in the back unless you going to mid mount it longitudinaly otherwise the handling will be shocking. scoff on rtoc who has the rear engine r5 said he approched an island tried to turn round it and it just went straight :lol: though he was pulling 3.9 0-60's with only 220bhp :shock:
but then again stuart clark did 3.7 0-60 in the 11.4 second 1/4 mile car and thats fwd with circa 300bhp.
just keep the same engine, keep it fwd, get a propper cromoly cage welded in with attachments to the struts, lsd, bigger blower (maybe a vnt if you want track car) and supporting mods. then just a set of 8" drag slicks on steels for the pod :twisted:
Could use the same approach as my mate Andy Burton. Although his is a 306...search for Pug 306 Cosworth..I'm sure you have seen it before.
Use the Clio shell, but only use the front section, replacing it with a tubular spac frame and GRP body panels on the rear. Relocate fuel tank to front, and have custom suspension geometry - possibility for inboard unequal double wishbone set up to effect static and dynamic roll centres.
The rear could then use any engine you fancy, however to keep with F7R theme, then most of the RWD work was done on the Renault Spider so bits do exist. Either NA or FI, its up to you. Mid engine would be the way to go, and again rear suspension set up can be double wishbone too....I guess it depends on usage, track...drag...stage???
Either way I don't think you could get the performance you want by using a whole shell, some tinkering will be needed, so why not go the whole hog..
^^^ bloody good idea but the costs would be ££££ may even be cheaper to get a DAX Rush quadra and put a full Clio GRP over the top, or even cut the top of a Pulsar and drop a clio shell onto it,
4WD would be good but like some have pointed out it will loose power, LSD and slicks for now.... LSD is only £450...only :shock:
:lol:
ash clio gtt
11-05-2006, 15:53
^^^ bloody good idea but the costs would be ££££ may even be cheaper to get a DAX Rush quadra and put a full Clio GRP over the top, or even cut the top of a Pulsar and drop a clio shell onto it,
4WD would be good but like some have pointed out it will loose power, LSD and slicks for now.... LSD is only £450...only :shock:
:lol:
consider yourself lucky, is closer to 1k with gearbox rebuild for a clio/r5gtt :cry:
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